Dates, Girls, and Money - Who Pays?

[Grand Pooba]

I'd say I'm intermediate going on advanced in the world of women. One of my weaker areas right now is the question of money when it comes to girls and dating, and thus I'd like to start a thread to discuss and share ideas with you all.

We have a whole article on GC about who should pay for dates.

Of course if it's a woman that pays for drinks on the first date, she's going to be way more invested in you and in the outcome of the date.

At the same time, sometimes women get hyper offended if they're asked to pay for a date. I just had this happen recently - where a girl I'm already seening got super offended that I asked her to split the bill with me when we went out for a wine and small dinner. Her attitude - bringing up money is disgusting, and not something that cultured people do.

Some guys have recommended getting the bill on the high point on a first date and telling her something along the lines of "you get this one and I'll get the next one." I'm not entirely sure how this works out, if you're not planning to go to a second venue.

For me, I've preferred to just go to a reasonable venue, limit my own drinks to one, maybe she gets one or two drinks, and I pay for the bill to avoid discussing money altogether - because I've seen that some women get very offended at bringing up money and splitting a date, or her paying for a date, that I invited her to. Sometimes women think then that I'm cheap (this is a negative stereotype for guys of my race anyway, so this just affirms it for her and it bodes poorly for the outcome). It must be a frame that I'm conveying incorrectly - because for me it's not about the money, it's about how invested in me she is. Often when a girl will offer to split the bill, I'll take it. Sometimes girls also do this because they don't like the date and don't want to set the wrong expectations - if she splits it, it's also easy for her to walk away feeling like she doesn't owe anything to the guy. But, if the guy pays it, it's also easy for her to walk away, simply because she's not invested.

If you're also going on 1-3 dates a week like I do, and go to nice lounges with the right vibe for a seduction, these have often more expensive drinks, and thus my tabs end up somewhere between $35 and 80 for a first date, with each of us getting 1-2 drinks. That adds up pretty quickly.

I'm starting this thread as a general discussion - what do you guys do, and how do you handle the question of money?

In particular, how do you handle the question of who pays for the drinks on the first date?

 

[Fuck This]

Me buying food and drinks buys me the exclusive attention of that woman. Much in the same fashion buying lunch for a potential client buys me their attention to my pitch. That is all.

If i want to go have a nice dinner with a beautiful woman, eat good food and drink good wine then I will pay. That is the cost of doing what I want. But I would not even pitch that as a date if i was just trying to impress a woman I've never met before. See the difference?

Believe me if a woman is going to sleep with you she doesn't have an adding machine in her head saying when you hit the spending limit, her legs open. She goes by how you make her FEEL. And you can do that on a first date walking in the park with a cup of coffee, or chatting with her when you see her in the bar already.

I can meet a woman in the daytime, make a date to go for a short hike, throw some beers and finger food in a cooler and have a tailgate lunch on a Saturday and get to know her as well as if we had reservations for a dinner date.

Suffice to say I don't "hit the club scene", but I always figure if I was out with my buddies what would I spend? It's gotta be a pre-qualified girl to get a 1 on 1 for overpriced drinks and food. Those are the situations i go "hunting" in. Drink tonic and lime, and let the girls show up to be taken home. And would you go somewhere to hang out solo that you are meeting these girls at? I'd want to be somewhere I feel at ease, andI would be regardless of meeting a date. That is a component of outcome independence...."I'm doing THIS, join me?"

 

[BigPapa]

Usually i pay for the drinks , because I would have still went out to have a drink anyways and 1 drink extra is not a big fuss .

If she never pays , I would start doing the maths like , yeah an escort costs this amount for 2-3 hours , this girls costs me this amount for a 1-2 drinks , yeah it still a good deal . For sure I will never consider her more than a fwb and keep things as casual as possible .

if she splits the bill or even pays from time to time , I would consider to “promote” her to a more “senior” position in my life , like a close fwb or even relationship

good people in general do not like to feel that they owe you anything , Even when they do not have the money . I remember I was dating this girl , she was in college and did not had any money really , but would cook for me from time to time , or clean my apartment . When I would do the maths , I would see that it was at least a fair deal without including sex

this is how the world works , money are just the lubricant to get what you want

 

[Protean]

We're going to see a lot of different answers here depending on the types of girls guys go for. For me I like Asian Americans, and I run into zero issues in terms of splitting the bill (plenty of other issues for me to iron out though haha). But for guys like you Varoon, who go for Asian women that are generally more feminine and traditional, proposing to split the bill is a stumbling block that will trip you up more often.

Besides those thoughts I don't feel qualified to propose any specific ways tactics around this issue. It's just something I haven't had to deal with due to my environment and the types of girls I go for. But think back Varoon, were the women who balked when you wanted to split things from more traditional backgrounds? If so a clash of cultures rather than a defect in your game could be to blame here.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

Grand Pooba dude! I find I'm always paying for dates. A little bit like Fuck This I have invited them and so I'm willing to pay to avoid any disputes, upsetting any girl I'm with social expectations, not offending anyone and I always do something cheap for dates anyway such as coffee, drinks or similar so the cost is fine. I like it when girls "play the game" back and offer a little light resistance and thank me for it. It's investment from them. Like they're not expecting or demanding it and they're thankful/grateful.

I don't like the idea of buying their time, they have accepted to come. That is their choice. They can leave at any time and have no obligations to me because I offered. That is the dynamic that I like. I have offered to buy them a drink.

The best thing I ever done was to learn to accept girls paying. I used to feel emasculated letting a girl pay because it would look socially unacceptable having a girl go into her purse to pay for me. As soon as I flipped the script of they offered, why wouldn't I accept if its something I wanted??

I haven't done many dates lately and just been exclusively night gaming and the amount of girls that buy me drinks.... This is a different thing for me. When I first started doing night game a lot of people were drugging drinks. Plain simple I never bought a girl a drink, I couldn't have put drugs in her drink. Once I get to know a girl I will happily buy them a drink. A lot of the girls that I know slink of to the bar and bring me back a drink. So girls will pay for me. I know they're invested.... but dates, I always aim to pay. Its socially expected where I am really and 90% of the time I am out with a girl 18 - 21 usually students, where I am relatively successful in comparison so I pay.

 

[Skills]

First the best way is not to get into "paying situations" for example scheduling dates at dinner times are likely to get you into a paying situation for dinner....

if you are on a date, the dude should pay, cause is taking the masculine role, just make sure that the "timing" and the "investment" is there....

If you get in a situation of paying to impress or paying not to lose her= you are fucked....

of course all of this ^ pre sex, post sex who cares

 

[Sub-Zero]

When I first started doing night game a lot of people were drugging drinks.

WTF

 

[Sub-Zero]

It seems everyone here wants to pay for the girl. I’ve asked @Chase a few times if anything changed since his article about paying came out.

He keeps telling me it’s still the same, but if it’s really cheap it’s ok I guess.

I only pay for myself when going out on dates, but I’m not against getting one drink or one coffee.

 

[ElderPrice]

I think it depends on a number of factors. Here's just a list of thoughts of mine on the subject:
- First off, I will absolutely try on every date to get her to pay (I'm assuming we're talking first dates with new girls here)
- The more dates me and a girl go on, the closer we will get to us paying half and half, whether that's splitting the bill on each date, or us taking turns paying for each date
- I think there's nothing wrong asking the girl to pay for a cheap first date. Like the cost of two drinks.. or two coffees.. or two under-$10 meals.
- However, I think it's definitely messed up if you asked a girl out on date to, say, a fancy steakhouse and then at the end asked her to pick up the bill. Unless the girl is rich and you both know it. But for the 99.9% of girls you date who aren't rich, it would be a dick move to do something like this. You're the one inviting her to a fancy night out. The expectation is set that you're paying for this luxury.

So what does Elder do?
- My first dates are always cheap. Usually just grabbing coffee.
- Most of the time I'll pick up the tab since $3 for hers is absolutely nothing.
- As I said previously, I'll attempt to convince her to pay. I'll bring it up in a fun, playful way. Not in a way where I just look like a cheap mf.
- If there's a second part to the date, then I'll directly ask the girl to pay if I paid for the first part. Basically all I'm doing at this point is make sure I'm not the Mr. Nice Guy that pays for everything. And I also have the belief in the back of my mind that it's one thing to pay for nice nights out with a girlfriend. But no way am I blowing any significant dough on a stranger who might not even be interested in a second date.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

WTF

I know fucked up right.

It was everywhere girls were told not to let anyone buy them drinks and to watch their own.
Guys were told not to buy drinks to avoid accusations.
Everyone was told to drink from bottles so you could cover the top with your thumb.

I don't drink anymore but it's still habits I'm in.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

It seems everyone here wants to pay for the girl. I’ve asked @Chase a few times if anything changed since his article about paying came out.

He keeps telling me it’s still the same, but if it’s really cheap it’s ok I guess.

I only pay for myself when going out on dates, but I’m not against getting one drink or one coffee.

It's still the same, I agree. If you can get the girl to pay, even half she's more invested and the better your odds are because of this. I'm not opposed to it.

However you will read threads and field reports here where girls are offended and don't see the guy again. You could argue she wasn't invested enough, but if he'd have followed social norms to not offend her could have bedded her.

The issue is if society is telling them something and everyone else follows you'll stand out but for potentially the wrong reason.

In the OP he's battling a social stigma that people like him are cheap. Fuelling this stereotype might not work for him.

Recently I had a date where I scheduled drinks. I was happy to pay, she messaged the day before to ask if it was just drinks or a meal too. (The cheek!) I said if she wants to buy me dinner she can....

I ate steak! :')

 

[Grand Pooba]

It's still the same, I agree. If you can get the girl to pay, even half she's more invested and the better your odds are because of this. I'm not opposed to it.

However you will read threads and field reports here where girls are offended and don't see the guy again. You could argue she wasn't invested enough, but if he'd have followed social norms to not offend her could have bedded her.

This is the crux of the problem in a nutshell -

It's much better if the girl pays, because she's more invested.
However, forcing the girl to pay for the date the man set up can backfire - he just looks cheap in her eyes and she could get offended.
Which makes the date a total loss/failure when it could have been OK to pay.

 

[Grand Pooba]

First the best way is not to get into "paying situations" for example scheduling dates at dinner times are likely to get you into a paying situation for dinner....

I prefer to go to a lounge where they don't even have food - just drinks and an appetizer.

 

[Witcher]

I'd say I'm intermediate going on advanced in the world of women. One of my weaker areas right now is the question of money when it comes to girls and dating, and thus I'd like to start a thread to discuss and share ideas with you all.

We have a whole article on GC about who should pay for dates.

Of course if it's a woman that pays for drinks on the first date, she's going to be way more invested in you and in the outcome of the date.

At the same time, sometimes women get hyper offended if they're asked to pay for a date. I just had this happen recently - where a girl I'm already seening got super offended that I asked her to split the bill with me when we went out for a wine and small dinner. Her attitude - bringing up money is disgusting, and not something that cultured people do.

Some guys have recommended getting the bill on the high point on a first date and telling her something along the lines of "you get this one and I'll get the next one." I'm not entirely sure how this works out, if you're not planning to go to a second venue.

For me, I've preferred to just go to a reasonable venue, limit my own drinks to one, maybe she gets one or two drinks, and I pay for the bill to avoid discussing money altogether - because I've seen that some women get very offended at bringing up money and splitting a date, or her paying for a date, that I invited her to. Sometimes women think then that I'm cheap (this is a negative stereotype for guys of my race anyway, so this just affirms it for her and it bodes poorly for the outcome). It must be a frame that I'm conveying incorrectly - because for me it's not about the money, it's about how invested in me she is. Often when a girl will offer to split the bill, I'll take it. Sometimes girls also do this because they don't like the date and don't want to set the wrong expectations - if she splits it, it's also easy for her to walk away feeling like she doesn't owe anything to the guy. But, if the guy pays it, it's also easy for her to walk away, simply because she's not invested.

If you're also going on 1-3 dates a week like I do, and go to nice lounges with the right vibe for a seduction, these have often more expensive drinks, and thus my tabs end up somewhere between $35 and 80 for a first date, with each of us getting 1-2 drinks. That adds up pretty quickly.

I'm starting this thread as a general discussion - what do you guys do, and how do you handle the question of money?

In particular, how do you handle the question of who pays for the drinks on the first date?

@Grand Pooba

It was a thing that I struggled with and I came with the following strategy. What I do is to get that paying issue out of the way as soon as possible so it doesn't disturb the date. So I do dates in places where we pay at the moment of the order, like Starbucks, This way weather I pay or she pay is already taken care of and will not generate any friction when we have to leave the venue.

I usually order for both of us and spontaneously pay, I noticed that since its the beginning of the date she will be okay by any scenario since people are nicer at the beginning of the interaction, It also gives you a good idea about the girl from the get-go.

You can also play it by letting her go before you "ladies first" and she will most likely pay for herself. Another thing is that in this kind of venue if she wants another drink or food she will go by herself and pay by herself. It will be very weird for her to tell you "give me money for the second coffee.

That was my two cents.

 

[Skills]

This is the crux of the problem in a nutshell -

It's much better if the girl pays, because she's more invested.
However, forcing the girl to pay for the date the man set up can backfire - he just looks cheap in her eyes and she could get offended.
Which makes the date a total loss/failure when it could have been OK to pay.

this is so unnecessary as a technique to get a girl "invested" , 0 need for this, on an encounter situation for her to go to the "encounter" she had to be invested, the #1 form of investment is sex, this will prevent your odds of getting to "Sex"aka higher investement....

the dude should take the masculine role and pay.... get in encounter dates that are under $20 dollars, most of my dates that is the max spent....

 

[COCPORN]

I usually pay for everything because I like dating younger girls and their budget includes Burger King if that. Paying for it allows me to have the experience I want. It has happened that this pushes them into a mindset where I give them stuff, and I am not fully sure how to recover from that.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

I prefer to go to a lounge where they don't even have food - just drinks and an appetizer.

I usually hit small bars, they may serve food but I go exclusively for a drink or two. I pay about £5 - £10 which is about equivalent to 3/4 hour - 1 1/2 hours pay per day.

Like @Witcher pointed out I will go where you pay when you order. And like @Skills says it's the masculine role to pay.

The date is cheap anyway. If they paid for themselves or decided to pick up the bill on the second date or second round it is in everyone's budget.

The top and bottom is it is usually social norm for the guy to pay, if you're inviting her out be prepared to but no harm in being playful in getting them to pay. Everything works if delivered right at the right time

 

[Grand Pooba]

@Grand Pooba

It was a thing that I struggled with and I came with the following strategy. What I do is to get that paying issue out of the way as soon as possible so it doesn't disturb the date. So I do dates in places where we pay at the moment of the order, like Starbucks, This way weather I pay or she pay is already taken care of and will not generate any friction when we have to leave the venue. Then we just stay as long as each of us wants to.

I usually order for both of us and spontaneously pay, I noticed that since its the beginning of the date she will be okay by any scenario since people are nicer at the beginning of the interaction, It also gives you a good idea about the girl from the get-go.

You can also play it by letting her go before you "ladies first" and she will most likely pay for herself. Another thing is that in this kind of venue if she wants another drink or food she will go by herself and pay by herself. It will be very weird for her to tell you "give me money for the second coffee.

That was my two cents.

Oh, this is a really interesting strategy and I like it.

I like to go to a lounge with a nice vibe rather than just any place, as it plays into my game better that way than a place without the right mood and lighting (i.e. Starbucks vs a classy lounge, different experience altogether). BUT - I really like this idea of paying for the drinks we get right on the spot - when the menu comes and we order drinks, and she gets her one drink and I get mine, I should just ask for the check on the spot and close it out immediately and pay for it, so we're not worrying about it later.

This also allows me to control the frame - if she's having fun and wants another drink, or we go to another venue, I can either propose we split the bill for the next one on the spot, or that she pays the next because I got the first one.

I really like this - I think it takes care of everything well in advance - and because the tab will be paid for in the first ten minutes rather than the end of the date, there's no additional investment/pressure for anyone at the very end. Also, she'll already know I'd have paid the tab.

Nice suggestion.

 

[Grand Pooba]

this is so unnecessary as a technique to get a girl "invested" , 0 need for this, on an encounter situation for her to go to the "encounter" she had to be invested, the #1 form of investment is sex, this will prevent your odds of getting to "Sex"aka higher investement....

the dude should take the masculine role and pay.... get in encounter dates that are under $20 dollars, most of my dates that is the max spent....

Good points Skills. I think paying just avoids resentment and autorejection anyway from lack of paying.

 

[WorkingOnIt]

I never pay for shit I split everything 50/50. If she don’t like it I say “do you have a job?” If she says no downgrade her and say are you a lazy persons without motivation? Makes her feel guilty

if yes then she can easily pay and it’s not a problem.