Daygame interaction time and process

[ChrisXKiss]

I've generally looked into a number of infield daygame videos online and the respective processes of the people in them and one thing that I have always found strange compared to my real life experiences is how long these approaches last.

A lot of times it's something like a 10 minute chat and then a close. During this time of course you can run a full process of opening, teasing and flirting a bit, connecting over some things, qualifying her, hitting a high note and seeding a date more naturally.

What I have experienced though throughout my day is girls that just have to go somewhere. Whether it is work, meeting friends, catching a bus, they almost always feel busy. I'd say the longest daygame interactions I've had have been when she is waiting for something longer like public transport or a friend, when I jump in the public transport and we talk as we go to our stations, when she is having some sort of work break by herself, or when I start walking with her for a bit. These are the minority though.

I count as interaction time by the way, the time till the ask for a number or an instant date, so basically I am talking about girls who are not free for an instant date then and there. These I obviously invite to one if I have more time myself, but the ones that are not available immediately feel very difficult to run an organised game in 2-3 minutes top, in order to get a solid number.

I'm generally approaching in the city so maybe it makes sense that the girls are in the city because they have something to do there and not randomly, I just always wondered how you are supposed to apply a full daygame process in a fast paced environment.

The way I do things now is I open with some sort of compliment, if she responds I ask about her vibe now, and then I may make some teasing comment on it, a cold read about where she is from or how she is in life, I ask about her interests, qualify them and share something from myself that makes us similar and then ask if she is generally around and recommend we catch up some other time when we are both more free.

The thing is that all this feels like it has to be done very fast, so I don't have enough time to take a pause and let the tension build and the interaction take a breath. Sometimes it even feels I have to rush through all the steps if for example her bus comes in 1-2 minutes, and I don't want to simply go neo-direct.

I've had success with these kind of short interactions by the way, many numbers, a bunch of dates, some lays, what I am thinking about though is how to maximise what I get out of them. Because trying to prolong them when the girl is clearly going somewhere doesn't work and feels a bit uncalibrated.

Maybe it's about fundamentals mostly? That the girl is instantly interested so use the 2-3 minutes to build some comfort and show that you are normal enough to go to a date with. Or she will even stay a bit more by herself if she is not in a huge rush and likes you.

What I struggle to see is what techniques would be able to work with a girl that is not at least quite a bit into you from the get go, and would be applied in few minutes time with great effect.

 

[Atlas IV]

If she's in a hurry to get somewhere, it will feel forced if you try to rush through all that conversation stuff you mentioned.

I'd just go with one of the things you mentioned (e.g. an assumption about what she does or is doing), then something like: "Listen, I see you're in a hurry. I've got to run as well. But (I think you're very attractive and) I would love to grab a coffee with you sometime." (SOI optional.)

Straight to number close. Build some rapport over texting, then soft close her again.

Make sure there was strong eye contact and hold her hand a little longer with the handshake. That will be plenty enough to establish some sexual tension, even if it's only a 1-2 minute interaction.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

If she's in a hurry to get somewhere, it will feel forced if you try to rush through all that conversation stuff you mentioned.

Yeah that’s a good point I’ve also felt.

I didn’t want to obviously ask her out very fast without getting to know her a bit, but I guess trying to get to know her in this short amount of time is more uncalibrated than telling her to meet again faster.

Maybe the last part about what she is into is the strangest one to get into in this scenario. At least that’s what I have felt when I go for it.

Some light flirtation, and good first impression should be enough.

Straight to number close. Build some rapport over texting, then soft close her again.

This is also interesting. I had been trying to use Chase’s template and send a scheduler text but it felt very off with most of these women.

At the same time I have not found a surefire way to go for rapport via text and have them answer.

A lot of these numbers feel not invested enough to even start the texting.

Not sure how much more I can do game wise to get them invested enough in these 2-3 minutes, though.

Make sure there was strong eye contact and hold her hand a little longer with the handshake. That will be plenty enough to establish some sexual tension, even if it's only a 1-2 minute interaction.

I suppose this solid first impression is the most you can go for, together with calibrating your talk to the time you both have, so that it doesn’t feel rushed but natural.

I have been wondering a bit about eye contact in fact. Mostly how much you have to keep looking at her in the beginning.

I don’t have a problem to just look deep in a woman’s eyes generally, that said I have noticed that I tend to break eye contact to the side after the approach to release the tension and make her feel more comfortable with being approached by a stranger.

Not sure if this makes me look less masculine, the goal is to make her feel safer and open up to talk to me, and I have felt that going for a lot of eye contact right away shows too much intent and maybe even gets too intense for her.

Is this something we want in general? Maybe I have to warm up my eye contact can’t say for sure, I generally struggle with the balance of coming in smiling and open while staying masculine and sexual.

 

[isildur1]

If she’s in a rush I try and close on social media - instagram / WeChat then use the pics I have on there to build rapport along with texting - can be an optimal way to reduce flakes - along with stories

Don’t worry about the interactions being too short - I believe Paul Janka built his entire pickup career on short interactions , worry about the things you can control- fashion, opening with confidence , good social media and stories etc. will play a bigger role in your success

 

[Will_V]

I've generally looked into a number of infield daygame videos online and the respective processes of the people in them and one thing that I have always found strange compared to my real life experiences is how long these approaches last.

A lot of times it's something like a 10 minute chat and then a close. During this time of course you can run a full process of opening, teasing and flirting a bit, connecting over some things, qualifying her, hitting a high note and seeding a date more naturally.

What I have experienced though throughout my day is girls that just have to go somewhere. Whether it is work, meeting friends, catching a bus, they almost always feel busy. I'd say the longest daygame interactions I've had have been when she is waiting for something longer like public transport or a friend, when I jump in the public transport and we talk as we go to our stations, when she is having some sort of work break by herself, or when I start walking with her for a bit. These are the minority though.

I count as interaction time by the way, the time till the ask for a number or an instant date, so basically I am talking about girls who are not free for an instant date then and there. These I obviously invite to one if I have more time myself, but the ones that are not available immediately feel very difficult to run an organised game in 2-3 minutes top, in order to get a solid number.

I'm generally approaching in the city so maybe it makes sense that the girls are in the city because they have something to do there and not randomly, I just always wondered how you are supposed to apply a full daygame process in a fast paced environment.

The way I do things now is I open with some sort of compliment, if she responds I ask about her vibe now, and then I may make some teasing comment on it, a cold read about where she is from or how she is in life, I ask about her interests, qualify them and share something from myself that makes us similar and then ask if she is generally around and recommend we catch up some other time when we are both more free.

The thing is that all this feels like it has to be done very fast, so I don't have enough time to take a pause and let the tension build and the interaction take a breath. Sometimes it even feels I have to rush through all the steps if for example her bus comes in 1-2 minutes, and I don't want to simply go neo-direct.

I've had success with these kind of short interactions by the way, many numbers, a bunch of dates, some lays, what I am thinking about though is how to maximise what I get out of them. Because trying to prolong them when the girl is clearly going somewhere doesn't work and feels a bit uncalibrated.

Maybe it's about fundamentals mostly? That the girl is instantly interested so use the 2-3 minutes to build some comfort and show that you are normal enough to go to a date with. Or she will even stay a bit more by herself if she is not in a huge rush and likes you.

What I struggle to see is what techniques would be able to work with a girl that is not at least quite a bit into you from the get go, and would be applied in few minutes time with great effect.

Short interactions are fine. A lot of mine only go a few minutes. In fact, in some ways I think it comes across as more normal for her to run into a guy where you are both busy but you quickly grab the number for a better time, vs a guy who is ready to spend 20 minutes talking to a random girl on the street who has less free time than he does. The busyness disparity can sometimes be bad for the dynamic.

It also gives her a sense of anticipation - she got the dopamine hit of the approach but there wasn't time for much more, so she's at least curious to meet you, vs her meeting a guy who tries to cram a whole date's worth of getting-to-know-you into 10 minutes when her head might be somewhere else. Anticipation is always better than a low-quality experience.

I also believe that a woman knows within a minute (probably less) whether she wants to meet you again, and so there isn't a whole lot of need to work on her during the approach, as long as the structure is there.

The key things IMO are:

1. Maintain a fairly high energy.
2. Make sure you qualify her on something you genuinely like about her.
3. Express curiosity to get to know her more, and seed the date.
4. Frame it as if you have to run, not her.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

If she’s in a rush I try and close on social media - instagram / WeChat then use the pics I have on there to build rapport along with texting - can be an optimal way to reduce flakes - along with stories

Don’t worry about the interactions being too short - I believe Paul Janka built his entire pickup career on short interactions , worry about the things you can control- fashion, opening with confidence , good social media and stories etc. will play a bigger role in your success

Yeah I've heard of that guy, but isn't the idea that he was also extremely good looking? I mean for me personally I always felt that something was a bit off with his face but I guess the important part is how women see him.

And the thing is I don't use social media, I've had a facebook since some years with 2-3 pics, that I use to talk to some friends but nothing else. I still wonder how much difference creating and maintaining a proper instagram would make.

I dont' really care about doing it unless I am convinced that it will really improve my results. I have no interest in posting just to post, if someone needs to know what I am up to they will be close enough to me to know that.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

I also believe that a woman knows within a minute (probably less) whether she wants to meet you again, and so there isn't a whole lot of need to work on her during the approach, as long as the structure is there.

This is a very good point that I tend to forget. In a sense I feel that I have to run a correct process for her to get interested in meeting again, teasing a bit, achieving some high notes, qualifying and closing smoothly, and when this does not organically happen, it's like I have to make these things work in this short amount of time. Because if I don't, it will be off, and she will feel that I only like her for her looks and we don't vibe well enough to meet again.

But really I feel that it is more about having the right energy, be normal and calibrated and not overtly try to make the interaction special. If it works out that you do more you do but you don't force them.

1. Maintain a fairly high energy.
2. Make sure you qualify her on something you genuinely like about her.
3. Express curiosity to get to know her more, and seed the date.
4. Frame it as if you have to run, not her.

The last part is important to remember. I tried sometimes lately to slow down the interaction, create some silence and a vibe, and she suddenly broke it off saying well I have to go. I still closed then and got the number, but no response after that, and I feel it is because of this dynamic that I didn't calibrate to how busy she was and she felt like I'm too eager to stay there without caring about her situation.

I want to ask about the fairly high energy though, how do you mean that? I suppose it's because if she is busy she needs something of higher energy to grab her attention, I just don't want to make it so that it's an obvious pick up, I've felt that it puts more pressure on her.

Maybe I just shouldn't mind and be more commanding, loud and expressive. I still have girls that don't stop and just keep walking, so I could focus on eliminating that.

 

[Will_V]

This is a very good point that I tend to forget. In a sense I feel that I have to run a correct process for her to get interested in meeting again, teasing a bit, achieving some high notes, qualifying and closing smoothly, and when this does not organically happen, it's like I have to make these things work in this short amount of time. Because if I don't, it will be off, and she will feel that I only like her for her looks and we don't vibe well enough to meet again.

There's a kind of structure that needs to be there, especially she needs to feel that there is something you genuinely like about her that you're interested to find out more about later. I think it's good to find a way to get to at least a couple of questions about her that go beyond what people would ordinarily perceive or be interested in about her, i.e. not just what she does for work but what sort of girl she is.

If your impression is strong enough, the shortened approach can feel like a sort of takeaway for her that leaves her very curious and hungry for more. Girls will often respond to the icebreaker very fast when a shorter approach goes really well.

But really I feel that it is more about having the right energy, be normal and calibrated and not overtly try to make the interaction special. If it works out that you do more you do but you don't force them.

Yes, being slightly more authoritative than usual (with a high positive energy) tends to work best in these shorter interactions, rather than trying to make it feel special. You sort of trade off a little bit of the romance of it for pure energy - because romance takes longer to develop, which is time you might not have.

The last part is important to remember. I tried sometimes lately to slow down the interaction, create some silence and a vibe, and she suddenly broke it off saying well I have to go. I still closed then and got the number, but no response after that, and I feel it is because of this dynamic that I didn't calibrate to how busy she was and she felt like I'm too eager to stay there without caring about her situation.

Yeah, sounds like a case of dissonance and lack of pacing, where she's still thinking about all the stuff she has to do while also trying to figure out who you are, while you are trying to make this slow seductive bubble, and the whole thing falls apart. You have to match her pretty closely in terms of energy. That's why you can come in to a girl sitting in the park with something veery chill and lowkey, but if you do that in the mall it's not gonna hook. People generally match their psychological state to the energy of their surroundings, so you have to be pretty close to that and gently take things where you want it to go.

I want to ask about the fairly high energy though, how do you mean that? I suppose it's because if she is busy she needs something of higher energy to grab her attention, I just don't want to make it so that it's an obvious pick up, I've felt that it puts more pressure on her.

Maybe I just shouldn't mind and be more commanding, loud and expressive. I still have girls that don't stop and just keep walking, so I could focus on eliminating that.

Yeah it's a subtle thing, you have to be relaxed but pacing her, matching her state. That way she immediately feels connected to you, like you are not something foreign to the surroundings and her expectations. Otherwise her immediate reaction is to avoid you as an unknown entity.

And if she's a busy person, coming across like a busy person yourself, taking the number and telling her you have to run but you'd love to see her again, can help to make her feel like you and her are on a similar wavelength, because you're basically embodying the same state she feels herself.

With girls everything is about synchronicity and rhythm. When these break, she feels confused, but when they're there, she's a happy girl.

 

[James Cruse]

What I have experienced though throughout my day is girls that just have to go somewhere. Whether it is work, meeting friends, catching a bus, they almost always feel busy. I'd say the longest daygame interactions I've had have been when she is waiting for something longer like public transport or a friend, when I jump in the public transport and we talk as we go to our stations, when she is having some sort of work break by herself, or when I start walking with her for a bit. These are the minority though.

I mostly do daygame now and this tells me you’re completely in her frame:

It’s been my experience than when I approach women that are 18-25 years old (99% of my approaches) - they truly don’t have anywhere important to go.
They really don’t have that many true responsibilities or are truly needed anywhere - they may be good looking but they’re not really essential or truly needed anywhere.

As long as you’re not approaching women between 6am-9am before they start work - most women don’t have true pressing plans.

Meeting her friends? They can wait - they’ll still be there later (and they’ll be there next time).

Needs to catch a bus/train? - There’s another one coming in 15-30mins, and so on. What are you going home to? An cold empty apartment. You have an attractive seductive flesh & blood man standing in front of you.

From my experience, the solution to this is:

She needs to be motivated and incentivised to want to stay with you - rather than doing whatever other boring thing she’s currently doing.

The way I do things now is I open with some sort of compliment, if she responds I ask about her vibe now, and then I may make some teasing comment on it, a cold read about where she is from or how she is in life, I ask about her interests, qualify them and share something from myself that makes us similar and then ask if she is generally around and recommend we catch up some other time when we are both more free.

This is what’s actually tanking your seductions:

•Compliment (chasing)
•Asking her vibe (boring & chasing)
•Teasing on it (good)
•Cold Reading (trying to establish rapport - chasing & not that seductive)
•Asking questions about her life (boring and the same as what every guy does)

I simply think your seductions themselves are lacking and I suspect most of the women you’re converting were already green, if this is your standard seduction method.

This method also wouldn’t cause women to chase, obviously, and also wouldn’t motivate/incentivise them to abandon their other boring plans for more exciting plans (aka YOU).

 

[ChrisXKiss]

First of all I will start by saying that the 18-25 is by far my worst demographic, and I totally understand what you say. I have seen them in my eyes not doing much, so I don't believe that they are extremely busy all the time.

My problem with them is that usually they are dismissive from the start, no matter what kind of opening I have tried, the younger they are, the more difficult it seems to be for me to hook them. I have even seen your post regarding the age issue, have tried asking about their age first and it hasn't made much difference.

I don't know if they need any particular kind of game, would be open to look at something if you have recommendations, but generally I receive much better receptions by older women.

To the specifics of the thread

She needs to be motivated and incentivised to want to stay with you - rather than doing whatever other boring thing she’s currently doing.

I totally agree with this. What I am trying to understand is how you can achieve this in a very short amount of time. I mean if she is waiting for a bus that comes in 2 minutes what techniques are you going to use in these 2 minutes to have a girl decide that hmm ok, let's not go back home and stay with him?

What I am generally trying is to focus on the vibe and the non-verbals in this short amount of time, without much focus on what we talk about, but if there is s a specific kind of routine you can instantly run with great effect I wouldn't be opposed to it.

I also want to say that some of these interactions are short also because of me, I may be going somewhere I want to be, see a girl and want the best way to get a solid number while I am waiting for my train.

So even if there is a way to keep a girl there and prolong the interaction, I feel there is value in managing a solid quick close, for when you are the busy one.

 

[average_daygamer]

I mostly do daygame now and this tells me you’re completely in her frame:

It’s been my experience than when I approach women that are 18-25 years old (99% of my approaches) - they truly don’t have anywhere important to go.
They really don’t have that many true responsibilities or are truly needed anywhere - they may be good looking but they’re not really essential or truly needed anywhere.

As long as you’re not approaching women between 6am-9am before they start work - most women don’t have true pressing plans.

Meeting her friends? They can wait - they’ll still be there later (and they’ll be there next time).

Needs to catch a bus/train? - There’s another one coming in 15-30mins, and so on. What are you going home to? An cold empty apartment. You have an attractive seductive flesh & blood man standing in front of you.

From my experience, the solution to this is:

She needs to be motivated and incentivised to want to stay with you - rather than doing whatever other boring thing she’s currently doing.


This is what’s actually tanking your seductions:

•Compliment (chasing)
•Asking her vibe (boring & chasing)
•Teasing on it (good)
•Cold Reading (trying to establish rapport - chasing & not that seductive)
•Asking questions about her life (boring and the same as what every guy does)

I simply think your seductions themselves are lacking and I suspect most of the women you’re converting were already green, if this is your standard seduction method.

This method also wouldn’t cause women to chase, obviously, and also wouldn’t motivate/incentivise them to abandon their other boring plans for more exciting plans (aka YOU).

I have 2 questions

1. How do you open if not with a compliment?

2. How are you identifying the lower range of that age group? I see a lot of late teens and early 20s out at night which I simply feel too creepy to even approach at night as a proportion of them (at least from a distance) look like they could be underaged.

During the day, there is no way I am going up to an 18 year old without some kind of pre verification that she is atleast 18. Atleast in night game they might be expecting attention.

 

[James Cruse]

1. How do you open if not with a compliment?

You can open with literally any other statement that has some emotional relevance but isn’t chasing or supplicating to her.

Make an observation that isn’t positive or necessarily negative.

2. How are you identifying the lower range of that age group? I see a lot of late teens and early 20s out at night which I simply feel too creepy to even approach at night as a proportion of them (at least from a distance) look like they could be underaged.

During the day, there is no way I am going up to an 18 year old without some kind of pre verification that she is atleast 18. Atleast in night game they might be expecting attention.

If they’re underage, you’ll find out at some point in the interaction and then say, “You’re too young for me, but have a nice day” and leave.

It’s not a big issue.

 

[Will_V]

First of all I will start by saying that the 18-25 is by far my worst demographic, and I totally understand what you say. I have seen them in my eyes not doing much, so I don't believe that they are extremely busy all the time.

I think there are two components to this. The first is that younger girls are more skittish, they are much more conscious of stranger danger and don't feel anywhere near as capable of handling the situation as an older woman. So their default is often to be more defensive which includes pulling away as if they are in a hurry.

On the other hand these younger girls are a) more spontaneous and curious and b) respond well to firm, calm authority.

One of the problems I believe guys have in general is to respond to a woman's anxiety by giving up authority, thinking that the authority is the thing that's causing the problem by putting too much pressure on her. This is not correct, in fact it's often the other way around, a girl's anxiety is only really assuaged by the right kind of dominance and authority. It's when a guy projects intent without confidence, i.e. without authority, that she feels most at risk. He doesn't realize that her anxiety is a response to his own.

With younger girls you have to be super calm and warm, but very firm and authoritative, and solid as a rock. That gives them a sense of comfort and allows their curiosity to take over. Older women can deal with a slightly more shaky or unconfident or intense approach because they already feel fairly comfortable having dealt with plenty of guys. Although in general with all women the principles are the same.

That means with younger girls you've got to have rock solid confidence and be able to hold tension very well as she dithers, and be ready to give subtle commands, call out her nervousness, etc to give her a sense of your immediate control and leadership of the situation, while perhaps conveying a little less sexual intent in the beginning of the interaction.

 

[Water]

You can open with literally any other statement that has some emotional relevance but isn’t chasing or supplicating to her.

Make an observation that isn’t positive or necessarily negative.


If they’re underage, you’ll find out at some point in the interaction and then say, “You’re too young for me, but have a nice day” and leave.

It’s not a big issue.

Do not ask for their age unless they ask fi rat.

And do not ask “are you under 18?” or “are you 18 or older?” Those questions sound like a sexual predator.

Like James Cruse said, their age, if underage, will come up eventually if you continue and have a normal conversation.

My personal way of knowing was asking if they went to ______ community college (which is the closest and only college in my city). They’ll say yes or say no, then say where they do go to school.

I’ve approached a lot of girls I thought were underage who ended up being over 18 after I asked and they mentioned that.

Google nearby community colleges and universities and memorize those names, and ask girls if they go to one of those.

If they say yes, say they looked familiar (if you want to pretend to be a student there), or say they seem like they go there and you have a lot of friends who attend there.

 

[Water]

Do not ask for their age unless they ask fi rat.

And do not ask “are you under 18?” or “are you 18 or older?” Those questions sound like a sexual predator.

Like James Cruse said, their age, if underage, will come up eventually if you continue and have a normal conversation.

My personal way of knowing was asking if they went to ______ community college (which is the closest and only college in my city). They’ll say yes or say no, then say where they do go to school.

I’ve approached a lot of girls I thought were underage who ended up being over 18 after I asked and they mentioned that.

Google nearby community colleges and universities and memorize those names, and ask girls if they go to one of those.

If they say yes, say they looked familiar (if you want to pretend to be a student there), or say they seem like they go there and you have a lot of friends who attend there.

First sentence should say:

“Don’t ask for their age unless they ask you first.”

 

[KnownUniverse]

Who cares if she is under 18 - you havent done anything wrong by being social. And when im ready to show intent i'll ask if she is over 18 by bringing up something night club related like: me: "have you been to [nearby night club]". Her: "i can't get it in". Me: "why not?". Her: "i'm not over 18."

 

[James Cruse]

And do not ask “are you under 18?” or “are you 18 or older?” Those questions sound like a sexual predator.

Like James Cruse said, their age, if underage, will come up eventually if you continue and have a normal conversation.

Agree with all of this - just let it come out naturally. Women aren’t stupid - they know they need to tell you their age at some point and they also know you’re well over 18.

My personal way of knowing was asking if they went to ______ community college (which is the closest and only college in my city). They’ll say yes or say no, then say where they do go to school.

This is a great technique - not useful for me where I live because there’s so many large universities nearby.

But if you only have a few - this is ideal.
You can just assume she goes to either and she’ll correct you about still being in high school or working somewhere, if she’s not in uni.

I’ve approached a lot of girls I thought were underage who ended up being over 18 after I asked and they mentioned that.

Yes, this has happened to me many times.
I approach them thinking “they’re gorgeous but probably underage, lets see” and they’re usually in their 20’s.

I’ve also missed out on girls I didn’t approach thinking they were well underage and they walked by me later talking about their uni exams - so I over-estimated their age.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

One of the problems I believe guys have in general is to respond to a woman's anxiety by giving up authority, thinking that the authority is the thing that's causing the problem by putting too much pressure on her. This is not correct, in fact it's often the other way around, a girl's anxiety is only really assuaged by the right kind of dominance and authority. It's when a guy projects intent without confidence, i.e. without authority, that she feels most at risk. He doesn't realize that her anxiety is a response to his own.

I understand this and I do believe I have done this mistake in the past. The thing is I have opened in a wide variety of ways and I don't see much difference in their reactions or results. I have gone in more firm and grounded, I have tried being more playful and upbeat right away, I don't seem to be able to find the right mix. Especially with young girls the general reaction I get is a very skeptical, defensive look with the underlined vibe of: what are you doing here, you are clearly not part of my world and it feels weird.

Even if I keep interacting calmly at some point they will bring up the age question, and no matter how I have tried to handle it, it almost always is a firm: no you are too old for me, I only date guys that are until 22/25 etc

With younger girls you have to be super calm and warm, but very firm and authoritative, and solid as a rock. That gives them a sense of comfort and allows their curiosity to take over. Older women can deal with a slightly more shaky or unconfident or intense approach because they already feel fairly comfortable having dealt with plenty of guys. Although in general with all women the principles are the same.

So I fully understand that, my issue is that most times there is a negative reaction to my approach almost immediately, like what I am doing going to talk to them is so strange, especially when I go direct, when older women will appreciate it much more on average.

It is a good goal to focus on this firm warm energy in general though and just see where it gets me. I don't think I cannot be confident, it simply didn't feel like it changed much, I was still the confident older guy that they didn't want there anyway.

Maybe there is something wrong in the way I portray it. I feel this is a general issue I have, because I can go and approach confidently, but a lot of times I have felt that it doesn't seem to matter to the woman.

I was thinking about it, because I was also doing a guided visualisation where I could feel like a grounded sexy guy that girls around seem excited by with not much difficulty, but then I go into the world and I don't really experience it, so it messes with my head a bit. That whether I believe in myself or not doesn't seem to change the practical results.

That means with younger girls you've got to have rock solid confidence and be able to hold tension very well as she dithers, and be ready to give subtle commands, call out her nervousness, etc to give her a sense of your immediate control and leadership of the situation, while perhaps conveying a little less sexual intent in the beginning of the interaction.

I get the general idea of this, I do struggle a lot to see how it would look in field effectively to be honest. I think I'll try to go extra authoritative and keeping tension just to make sure that I am doing them enough and then check for the sweet spot.

Now that I think about it, it could be that although I am confident I am not authoritative enough. This is mostly because I am not much authoritative in my life in general, and my confidence is a more relaxed one without asking much of people. So it could help trying to ask for more compliance too and have them do things.

 

[Will_V]

I understand this and I do believe I have done this mistake in the past. The thing is I have opened in a wide variety of ways and I don't see much difference in their reactions or results. I have gone in more firm and grounded, I have tried being more playful and upbeat right away, I don't seem to be able to find the right mix. Especially with young girls the general reaction I get is a very skeptical, defensive look with the underlined vibe of: what are you doing here, you are clearly not part of my world and it feels weird.

Even if I keep interacting calmly at some point they will bring up the age question, and no matter how I have tried to handle it, it almost always is a firm: no you are too old for me, I only date guys that are until 22/25 etc

So I fully understand that, my issue is that most times there is a negative reaction to my approach almost immediately, like what I am doing going to talk to them is so strange, especially when I go direct, when older women will appreciate it much more on average.

It is a good goal to focus on this firm warm energy in general though and just see where it gets me. I don't think I cannot be confident, it simply didn't feel like it changed much, I was still the confident older guy that they didn't want there anyway.

Maybe there is something wrong in the way I portray it. I feel this is a general issue I have, because I can go and approach confidently, but a lot of times I have felt that it doesn't seem to matter to the woman.

I was thinking about it, because I was also doing a guided visualisation where I could feel like a grounded sexy guy that girls around seem excited by with not much difficulty, but then I go into the world and I don't really experience it, so it messes with my head a bit. That whether I believe in myself or not doesn't seem to change the practical results.


I get the general idea of this, I do struggle a lot to see how it would look in field effectively to be honest. I think I'll try to go extra authoritative and keeping tension just to make sure that I am doing them enough and then check for the sweet spot.

Now that I think about it, it could be that although I am confident I am not authoritative enough. This is mostly because I am not much authoritative in my life in general, and my confidence is a more relaxed one without asking much of people. So it could help trying to ask for more compliance too and have them do things.

Let's try and simplify this.

You are getting much better reactions from older women, and much worse reactions from younger women. What is the difference between those two? Some guys might say that it's your age, but we all know that girls love to be in the attention of older guys, you see these sort of platonic interactions all the time. In fact there's a girl at my fight gym - she's the daughter of the owner there - who does this with me. She's too young for me so I won't do anything, but she tries to present herself to my attention in various ways, and I give her some subtle signs of appreciation, this has been going on for months. This is how girls operate.

No, the real difference is that older women are more confident, and therefore can handle a less confident guy, whereas a younger girl is less confident, so requires a guy who is more confident. If there are two anxious/uncertain people in any kind of interaction they will bounce off eachother, there has to be some center of gravity for attraction to occur.

There is an adjacent dimension to younger women I haven't mentioned yet. Which is that they need to know that you are aware of the gap and that you don't take it seriously, and the best way I've found to do this is to not take them seriously. You can do this in a number of ways. First I like to express something that I guess you could call a 'knowing' smile. I don't really know how to describe it, but I learned it from my father (who liked to entertain platonic attention from quite young women, and even got advances from them, well into his sixties). The best public example I can think of is Sean Connery, who has this way of giving women attention while looking like a german shepherd looking at a kitten. It's a sort of curiosity, warmth, and lighthearted condescension rolled into one, that makes it very hard for her to disagree with, and is almost a soft challenge for her to rise to his level and prove herself capable. Something like this:

It can work well with older women if you do it subtly, but sometimes can trigger her ego if you do it too much.

Another way is to just gently tease her right off the bat. But again there has to be real effusive warmth and pleasantry to it or it falls flat.

Especially with relatively confident and dominant younger girls this sort of thing works really well to get her to want to rise to the occasion. Girls love to show they can 'handle' things, the same way that during sex you tease her that she's not gonna be able to handle whatever you're about to do with her, and she is aroused to prove that she can. It's the same principle. But she has to feel secure that there is a soft landing for her if she makes mistakes or needs to slow things down, that you're not all serious about it.

 

[Water]

Agree with all of this - just let it come out naturally. Women aren’t stupid - they know they need to tell you their age at some point and they also know you’re well over 18.




This is a great technique - not useful for me where I live because there’s so many large universities nearby.

But if you only have a few - this is ideal.
You can just assume she goes to either and she’ll correct you about still being in high school or working somewhere, if she’s not in uni.




Yes, this has happened to me many times.
I approach them thinking “they’re gorgeous but probably underage, lets see” and they’re usually in their 20’s.

I’ve also missed out on girls I didn’t approach thinking they were well underage and they walked by me later talking about their uni exams - so I over-estimated their age.

This reminds me of two incidents.

Once when I approached a girl who turned out to be 17, I was trying to eject but she kept pushing it and she number closed me. Then kept trying to meet up with me and made it clear she was sexually interested. I kept turning her down.

When she turned 18 she told me and explicitly booty called me for sex, which I agreed to. Funny thing she did, and only time it’s happened before, while we were fucking, I left for the restroom briefly, and she took a ton of nudes on my phone without telling me or asking me. I only realized she took a bunch of nudes cuz I checked my phone randomly at some time.

But that could have been awkward. Imagine I’m on another date with a different girl and I open my phone to show her a funny picture and the top is full of nudes.

Another incident, I approached a girl who ended up being under 18, we clicked on a deep level, she was genuinely cool (on top of being hot), I asked for her facebook and she said she didn’t have one. I assumed this was a lie and she didn’t want to continue associating with me. My natural buddy was next to me during this and he suggested out loud, “Hey, why don’t you get her number instead?” And she smiled and gave that to me. Later took her on a date when she was 20-21. She became very hot and is still very hot.

Don’t intentionally try gaming under age girls or contact close them to try banging them later when they’re 18. These incidents were accidental. And I think it might be against the law in some places.