Debunk of Krauser article on state

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@YS. posted a generally good reply to Tank in a thread I have promised not to contribute more to. The reply contained a post by Krauser however, which is 50% correct and 50% bunk claims: https://krauserpua.com/2013/05/13/stateless-game/

To Krausers defense this was posted in 2013 and I think he has a fair point that you should try to game even when your state is shit. Anyway here is a debunk:

The reality of daygame is that there simply aren’t enough pretty girls around to keep the momentum flowing. There aren’t enough girls that you can afford to waste the first ten sets trying to hit state. Ok, you could do it but it’s so wasteful

THIS is totally wrong because the premise is that you need hot girls to build state. I often build state with mediocre girls as to not burn the hot sets before primetime. Heck, even talking with MEN improves state if the alternative is the big zero. In daygame you can chat with lone girls at work etc. Or heck even phone a funny friend and talk shit before going out, or better yet, meet up and talk shit.

Maybe this is because Krauser generally seems to have an enormous ego around hotness. However, restricting yourself not to warm up with mediocre sets is just stupid, and yes, terribly wasteful.

Trying to force yourself into state takes alot of emotional energy and is inauthentic. You are trying to make yourself feel something you don’t actually feel.

TRE has more or less solved this for me. Instead of spending an evening hitting full state, it would happen in less than one hour. People thought I and Teevster were on coke.

Once you start to improve your state you become outcome dependent on keeping that little glimmer alive. More emotional energy expended.

Not my experience at all. To be fair, hardcore introverts are more quickly drained, and Krauser is an introvert. However he should not project this on everybody else. This also may be the explanation the next remark.

In the long periods between sets you get into your head trying to keep your state. Holding your state up is like holding a medicine ball in the air. Eventually you tire and it drops.

Not my experience at all. I can keep it going maybe 8 hours, other advanced guys I know are similar.

You can frame yourself over the long term into a negative thought pattern of “I’m only successful when I’m in state” or in the short term of “I won’t approach this girl because I haven’t hit state yet”

This is a fair remark, but it is just a limiting belief that can be overcome.

Girls can sense the inauthenticity if you’re trying to state leech from them, as with your wings.

This is irrelevant because sets are not scarce. Number of sets that can be used to build state >> number of sets that are relevant to getting laid.

You can end up in destructive state wars with your wings until one or both of you crash (noobs should especially watch for this “value tap” behaviour from more experienced players)

Solved by not going out with people who are burdens and also learning to tandem game

Daygame becomes much harder work than it ought to be. You are giving yourself an internal opponent to fight. It’s a fight that doesn’t need to happen.

This point is fair in the sense that you should not RELY on state.

Bottom line: Article has a fair point, however outdated and written by a hardcore introvert who does not know about TRE.

PS: There has been a couple of people outright DENYING state - this is now known to be false from the scientific works by Berceli and Porges. They refer to it as "social engagement" and their works also correctly predict what we found, doing TRE makes it much easier to hit state. So state is not just RSD woowoo nonsense and such views are either ignorance or cope.

 

[Rain]

THIS is totally wrong because the premise is that you need hot girls to build state. I often build state with mediocre girls as to not burn the hot sets before primetime. Heck, even talking with MEN improves state if the alternative is the big zero. In daygame you can chat with lone girls at work etc. Or heck even phone a funny friend and talk shit before going out, or better yet, meet up and talk shit.

Maybe this is because Krauser generally seems to have an enormous ego around hotness. However, restricting yourself not to warm up with mediocre sets is just stupid, and yes, terribly wasteful.

What do you say to the mediocre women you're not interested in to build state?

 

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What do you say to the mediocre women you're not interested in to build state?

The same as ever.

 

[hotsauce]

I find that i can't do this w mediocre women. If I don't have optimal arousal they will see I'm not attracted via microexpressions and go into autoreject and treat me like shit. And mediocre women don't react as well so the encounter isn't fluid even if they don't go into auto reject - making me feel lame. Don't get this w hot girls. So I end up not putting too much into state.

 

[Velasco]

Goal is to get you outta your head. You dont need the girl (or for her to even be a girl) to be hot to do that (whether she autorejects or not is beside the point).

 

[Rain]

The same as ever.

Goal is to get you outta your head. You dont need the girl (or for her to even be a girl) to be hot to do that (whether she autorejects or not is beside the point).

I had a thread with a similar question in it here incase its offtopic from this one.

Saying you're pretty if they're not pretty

Hey, Went out today and didn't do any approaches. Was wondering, is it unethical to tell someone "you're really pretty and I had to say hi" if you don't think they're pretty? Like as a warmup to get you into a social mood because maybe the fear is less when the woman is less attractive? So you...

www.skilledseducer.com

Is it wrong to say that? even if its shoes or whatever, its fake compliment because you have no interest in the woman and feels bad doing it? Like wasting her time?

 

[YS.]

I had a thread with a similar question in it here incase its offtopic from this one.

Saying you're pretty if they're not pretty

Hey, Went out today and didn't do any approaches. Was wondering, is it unethical to tell someone "you're really pretty and I had to say hi" if you don't think they're pretty? Like as a warmup to get you into a social mood because maybe the fear is less when the woman is less attractive? So you...

www.skilledseducer.com

Is it wrong to say that? even if its shoes or whatever, its fake compliment because you have no interest in the woman and feels bad doing it? Like wasting her time?

Honestly this is the reason why I got sick of direct game. The more success I got, the harder it was to congruently open and the whole reason I was doing natural direct game was to be congruent in the first place. If you have a princess at your bed, it's really hard to show intent at a 6. Being social/chatty/screening was much easier than being sexual/interested/intentful/etc.

 

[Velasco]

Spike their emotions/fuck around, same as you would to girls your attracted to. Only difference is your not gonna be trying set sexual frames. Doesnt matter if it goes nowhere, or she doesnt laugh at what you say. Again, the point is to just get out of your head:

I head to the bar to get myself a drink. As I turn around, I see this HB4 chubby girl about to place herself in the spot, I was in to get herself a drink. But I stop her, as I notice her frowning face. Classic move, I like to do. And such an easy opener. “omg what are you so angry. Chill out.” “what I’m not angry??” "yes you sure are. Did you just get dumped or something?”Be happy.” and something more along these lines. I find myself starting to flow really well. Where the words just come out, without much thought. This causes her to start asking me “getting to know me questions”. As this is happening, I notice, behind her is an HB7.5 on the phone. Had she noticed me open and spike the HB4’s emotions? no matter. I just step away from the HB4, and open the HB7.5

 

[Rain]

Spike their emotions/fuck around, same as you would to girls your attracted to. Only difference is your not gonna be trying set sexual frames. Doesnt matter if it goes nowhere, or she doesnt laugh at what you say. Again, the point is to just get out of your head:

Velasco said:
I head to the bar to get myself a drink. As I turn around, I see this HB4 chubby girl about to place herself in the spot, I was in to get herself a drink. But I stop her, as I notice her frowning face. Classic move, I like to do. And such an easy opener. “omg what are you so angry. Chill out.” “what I’m not angry??” "yes you sure are. Did you just get dumped or something?”Be happy.” and something more along these lines. I find myself starting to flow really well. Where the words just come out, without much thought. This causes her to start asking me “getting to know me questions”. As this is happening, I notice, behind her is an HB7.5 on the phone. Had she noticed me open and spike the HB4’s emotions? no matter. I just step away from the HB4, and open the HB7.5

Okay it may get you out of your head, but the hb4 started asking you questions, even without the sexual frame and then you walked away. From the other person point of view, they got approached, and then were told something random but could be taken personal 'youre so angry chill' and then they got left standing there when they started asking questions/having a conversation with the person that approached.

From her point of view surely she'd feel like shit, or like, I dunno I imagine if it was me I'd rather not be "practise" if that makes sense? I'm not saying it doesn't work to get you out of your head, I'm talking about morals. Am I being too concerned with morals?

 

[YS.]

Okay it may get you out of your head, but the hb4 started asking you questions, even without the sexual frame and then you walked away. From the other person point of view, they got approached, and then were told something random but could be taken personal 'youre so angry chill' and then they got left standing there when they started asking questions/having a conversation with the person that approached.

From her point of view surely she'd feel like shit, or like, I dunno I imagine if it was me I'd rather not be "practise" if that makes sense? I'm not saying it doesn't work to get you out of your head, I'm talking about morals. Am I being too concerned with morals?

You can just be social with them. But I understand the dilemma. Many people don't learn "social" game but a really sexual or intentful one. I think many forms of game being thought is really limited and damaging in some cases.

 

[Velasco]

Am I being too concerned with morals?

Ya lol

 

[hotsauce]

You can just be social with them. But I understand the dilemma. Many people don't learn "social" game but a really sexual or intentful one. I think many forms of game being thought is really limited and damaging in some cases.

Ya I haven't needed to learn social game really cause when I'm w a girl everyone wants to talk to me anyway. And it's actually annoying most the time. so I haven't really needed to. Maybe this is a mindset issue or inner game. I am on the extreme side of introversion. My ' in state' is really polarizing and I think only confident ppl can deal w it. I've been disrespected so many times by ugly/mediocre women I was just being friendly w as kind of an ego boost (for them) so I pretty much only talk to girls I wanna fuck now.

Like the hotdog girl in the Enrique vid... She's like today is not the day I'm in a bad mood. It's actually she's just ugly and a negative bitchy person overall. Maybe. And the actress encounter was more fluid they were able to have a playful back and forth because she is attractive and confident.