Did I react incorrectly or not with these two messages

Rain

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Two separate people

This one is facebook conversation with a female friend only known for a few months but we've opened up a bit about stuff eg health issues.
Her: It's really good
Me: Is it two storys? Do they ID scan after xyzpm
Her: Yes
Her: Yes
Me: xyz pub doesnt id scan...theycheck but dont scan into a computer thats why i prefer it.unless i get there before xyzpm
Her: Why are you worried about that?
Me: Identity theft. Scanning licence including the licence number. Take outnloans in your name online stuff like that. If someone in the scanners was corrupt ya know
Me: If i getan xyz card that might be ok
Her: Lol It's a bar they scan thousands of ids
Her: It doesn't happen like that
Me: Youre an expert are you
Me: *face with monocle emoji*
Me: *thinking face emoji*
Her: No need to be rude
Me: Why doesnt it happen like that?
Me: You were rude to me by " 'lol' its a bar they scan thousands". Laughing at me for having a serious view.
Her: Whatever.
Her: Not up to deal with moody behavior
Me: Its not whatever. You cant give it and not expect it back. Im happy to move on and leave it but i wont take crap
Her: Don't perpetuate an argument that you won't win.
Me: Im not up for dealing with moody behaviour

Second one is online dating. Do not know her this was first contact.
Me: *Wrote a message, maybe it was a bit of a pickup line*
Her: I hate pick up lines....how many times has that line worked for you??
Me: Enough times that is usually starts a conversation with someone and leads somewhere. Saying"hey" doesn't work. In the real world yes, but not online
Me: Hows pof been treating you?
Her: Yeah well it hasn’t worked on me...I’m still using the app, so what does that tell you??
Me: This entire conversation tells me you're having a really bad day and decided to take it out on me. Is this how you treat people in the real world?
Her: Wow...you a woman or a man?? Cos you’re an emotional train wreck
Me: Go away
Her: Gladly *frinning fquinting face emoji*
 

naturalmikey

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Also calibrate after the fact if a girl responds poorly acknowledge her response like “oh sorry that was a joke I know they don’t go over well with texts sometimes.” In person if you make a distasteful joke “sorry my humor can be a little out there.” After you calibrate immediately change the subject.
 

Fluxcapacitor

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Rain dude! Firstly the guide naturalmikey posted is good, definitely worth reading. There's good articles here that will help as well.

Text one, after you fucked up I liked your commitment. Throwing her line back about moody behaviour was good but not for seduction. Ya fuck up was trying to explain why ya worried about the scanners. It's a heavy topic an trying to convince over text is even heavier. Instead be playful:

I have fake ID because I'm a secret agent, it will blow my cover!
I dont want the door men knowing my address. They can buy me dinner first!

Don't qualify an explain just tease with it. Explain in person if you want.

Second situation was a total train wreck. The pick up line failed miserably. Again be light an playful.

Enough times... then change. Enough times, you look like the girl that would like it...
Enough times, that's my best line! (Let her respond) there's a million other ways to flip this an get her to qualify or to be fun and say other than my line what's the worst one you've heard?

Asking how pof has treated her is shit and she gave you a bored and disappointed answer. It's a predictable question. Again bouncing back on this you could have been... that bad huh? Guess ya ain't met any cool people. Today's ya lucky day!! ...I know a few cool people (if ya into self deprecation humour)
Oh really? Didn't think ya would have been on that long (yes this does validate her but it sounds like she has low self esteem)

If ya text before that was better ya wouldn't have to put out that fire dude! But if ya make the fuck up ya might as well learn to recover.
 

JacobPalmer

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Yeah, not good texts unfortunately. You come across as really upset. She says one thing that "triggers" you and you basically lose it. girls don't want to text to be told that they're doing something wrong. They want to have fun, and both of these conversations didn't do that.

In both cases, you end up being very emotional, and the girl is right, this is stuff girls say. girls get upset over text.

So think of two things here. One would be if the conversation was flipped and you were the girl. Would you want to keep talking to this person?

Two is: how would a high value person react? The answer is they wouldn't. They'd keep it fun and playful or just go silent.

Hope that helps!
 

Rain

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Hey guys,
The first conversation, I'm not trying to get with her, I'm trying to be friends with her as its cool to hangout with her at the bar.

So now this conversation is with another new woman from online:

Me: Well the washing machine is on lol
Her: You better stay and do your washing
So it gets hung out before the rain comes
Me: it'll take 90mins or something, plus I have a dryer the idea there wwas to come and hangout now, then I cant stay too long becaus Id have to put it in the dryer
Her: Washing is most important
You could have done it earlier in the day
Me: Lol
I decide whats important, and I decide how I do my washing. If you don't want to meet this afternoon, even though I'm available, thats ok, but you gotta say that bluntly
Her: Ok I'll say it bluntly
No
Not today
Maybe not ever
Me: Rightio
So theres rain coming
Her:Hope so
Not much chance of it
Me: Then why did you say earlier to hang it out before the rain comes?
So no reason, just you being you?
Her: Yes
Me: Okay. Can you see how that is a lie? I'm sure if a guy lied to you you'd be calling all sorts of names lol
Her: Wait what
I honestly don't know what your going on about
Me: "hang washing out before the rain comes" when you later said "not expecting rain". so you said rain is coming when it wasn't. So its a lie?
Her: Holy moly are you ok
Me: Yes. Tell me how its not a lie then, so that I understand. I can't see how it isn't a lie, but I'm open to learning
Her: Omg
Ok
Wow
Men are getting sensitive these days
Don't think your my type soz
Me: Forget about you and I meeting or being a type, are you saying that was not a lie?
Her: Yeah just forget it I don't deserve to be made a liar I work to hard for that


So tell me guys, I don't care if I "played" it wrong. Was she lieing about the rain coming ,thats the definition of lieing, saying something thats not true. And why doesn't this bother anyone else? Doesn't this make you annoyed at the world where people just lie?
Oh... and how can I trust her if we did end up in a LTR if shes so willing to lie , she could just as easily lie about cheating
 

JacobPalmer

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Dude.....no. You're taking this way too literally. It's just a saying, kindof get the sarcastic vibe from when she said that as well. But based on this convo, again, I 100% agree with this girl, you are getting way too sensitive and taking things way too literally (no offence). And you get hung up on the smallest insignificant thing.

Here's the thing, you're taking small things she says and turning them into huge fights. Think about it from her perspective now: does she want to be in a relationship with you if you're going to pick fights about extremely small things?
 

Dr Feelgood

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just had a quick view.

generally you are way too attached to the conversation meaning that you care way too much about how you are seen.
social interactions are meant to be fun. unless there is no reason to set a strong boundary stick to keeping a positive vibe.


the thing is with girls (at least in myexperience): once you start explaining yourself (=qualifying) they will further qualify you. And then you end up like you did.
in your texting you come across as super reactive, qualifying and not fun/carefree.
 

Michal

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Ok... to answer your "lying question", it seems like you need things to be "as matter of fact as possible" and as close to reality as it can be. Tbh, from the convo, I get the feeling that if we were friends and I told you I will be somewhere around 18:30 and came at 18:34, you would get angry that I did not say around 18:35. Not a vibe or a feeling you want to instill in girls if you want to seduce them. Also to me it felt like an old thread, like I have read it before.. haven't you created similar one couple months or a year back? Like Jacob says, you need to make it fun. For one simple reason. Majority of women hate logic. Because we, men, use it all the time in wrong situations.
So, the advice being. You could look for bits in the conversation to turn it on a playful note. When she said you better do your washing before the rain comes, you could have said something like: I guess.. if you know rain dance, don't start dancing please. And if she bites she can follow with a lot of stuff like "but I like to dance" or "you can't stop me" or whatever, I dont know. Point being you need to turn it fun or playful. Your style in those conversations seems more on the serious side.
 

Rain

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Her: Why are you worried about that?
Me: Identity theft. Scanning licence including the licence number. Take outnloans in your name online stuff like that. If someone in the scanners was corrupt ya know
Me: If i getan xyz card that might be ok
Her: Lol It's a bar they scan thousands of ids

I'm definitely on the more serious/sensitive side, that's for sure.
However.... if the quoted conversation happened and the woman was your girlfriend, you'd be cool with her laughing at you[online] for saying that? We are not together, just wondering if others would have thought of that as a problem because why have a partner, or a friend, who laughs at you like that?

It reminds me when I was applying for rental houses, and one of the real estates, I mentioned something about this theft risk with personal documents, and she laughed in my face and said iirc "no rain, they wont do that , theyd go after a rental place that sold houses too" or something. Certainly didn't make me want to go for a rental with them.

Another example, a few years ago, buying a clothes dryer. I wanted all the bells and whistles[which I now realise may not have been worth it] I had been looking online, $2k. I went into the store, and female staff member laughed in my face when I suggested that one because no one spends $2k on a dryer. I wanted to punch her in the face.

Are you guys telling me that a person laughing at you, online or inperson, whichever, is not disrespectful?
 
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ulrich

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Are you guys telling me that a person laughing at you, online or inperson, whichever, is not disrespectful?

You’re looking to win arguments and be right.
That is not going to work in seduction and specially not on text.

If things like these happen, you shrug them off and keep moving the conversation forward.
In person you can do that with your body language and face expression. That is harder to convey over text so better just avoid the issue.

A socially saavy man does not need to win every single argument.
He can take small losses and keep focused on the important stuff.
How a woman is feeling > Who is “right”

Remember, women are cute & silly. So don’t get into pointless arguments with them.
 

Rain

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You’re looking to win arguments and be right.
That is not going to work in seduction and specially not on text.

If things like these happen, you shrug them off and keep moving the conversation forward.
In person you can do that with your body language and face expression. That is harder to convey over text so better just avoid the issue.

A socially saavy man does not need to win every single argument.
He can take small losses and keep focused on the important stuff.
How a woman is feeling > Who is “right”

Remember, women are cute & silly. So don’t get into pointless arguments with them.

So all 3 examples I gave above when I bumped this thread recently[not all from the first post], you would not feel disrespected? Two of those examples, even the first one over online txt as well, was not about chatting up a woman, just going about daily life[eg buying a dryer, looking for a rental house]. Thats my question to you and other readers, that's why I bumped this thread, about the laughing. Is it disrespectful?
 
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Lover

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Counterexamples:

A girl tells you we have no climate problems. Then you laugh and tell her we obviously do have climate problems. She gets mad because she thinks you disrespected her (even though it is a polite disagreement). But did you disrespect her? Or were you just telling her your personal opinion? Even better: were you stating a fact?

An upcoming high school girl enters the electronic store you work at. She wants to buy the most expensive Apple laptop for high school. You laugh and tell her she won't even need the most expensive one since a cheaper one will suffice. And now she wants to punch you in the face. Did you disrespect her, or did you try to make her do a cheaper purchase and get the same needs met?

Disrespect is, from the way I see it, in the eyes of the beholder. I don't think any of these girls disrespected you. Some of them probably thinks you do or think some things that "ordinary" people wouldn't do. They're probably just surprised by your views and opinions
 

ulrich

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So all 3 examples I gave above when I bumped this thread recently[not all from the first post], you would not feel disrespected? Two of those examples, even the first one over online txt as well, was not about chatting up a woman, just going about daily life[eg buying a dryer, looking for a rental house]. Thats my question to you and other readers, that's why I bumped this thread, about the laughing. Is it disrespectful?

Well, it can seem disrepectful but I would not receive those kind of answers because I would have dropped the subjects much earlier.
I want you to realize that you had some responsibility causing those reactions.

In the case of the dryer, for example, it sounds like a trivial matter to me. If people start getting emotional on that I just drop the subject.

When you said this: "I decide whats important, and I decide how I do my washing. If you don't want to meet this afternoon, even though I'm available, thats ok, but you gotta say that bluntly", you're bringing seriousness and conflict to the interaction.
You're the one making things serious and putting stress.

Prioir to this, it could be interpreted as light teasing, fun balls-busting. But with that comment you close that route and forced a frame that puts you two in conflict.

So I would say, it seems to me that you are consciously or unconsciously choosing frames that put you in conflict. And when you stick to them it inevitably leads to arguments and disrespect.

It is not the disrespect you get that worries me. It's how you are leading to it one or two steps before it happens.
 

Rain

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In the case of the dryer, for example, it sounds like a trivial matter to me. If people start getting emotional on that I just drop the subject.

When you said this: "I decide whats important, and I decide how I do my washing. If you don't want to meet this afternoon, even though I'm available, thats ok, but you gotta say that bluntly", you're bringing seriousness and conflict to the interaction.
You're the one making things serious and putting stress.

The conversation you quoted is a separate conversation to the $2k expensive dryer conversation?
Maybe I should have started a new topic because it can be confusing.

The dryer costing 2k and then she laughs at me, I did not say anything about "I decide what simportant, I decide how I do my washing" or anything like that, that was a separate,online conversation in my first post to someone else.
 

Rain

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A girl tells you we have no climate problems. Then you laugh and tell her we obviously do have climate problems. She gets mad because she thinks you disrespected her (even though it is a polite disagreement). But did you disrespect her? Or were you just telling her your personal opinion? Even better: were you stating a fact?

An upcoming high school girl enters the electronic store you work at. She wants to buy the most expensive Apple laptop for high school. You laugh and tell her she won't even need the most expensive one since a cheaper one will suffice. And now she wants to punch you in the face. Did you disrespect her, or did you try to make her do a cheaper purchase and get the same needs met?

Would I have laughed in their face though?

Disrespect is, from the way I see it, in the eyes of the beholder. I don't think any of these girls disrespected you. Some of them probably thinks you do or think some things that "ordinary" people wouldn't do. They're probably just surprised by your views and opinions

Maybe that's the difference. Some laugh out loud at someone else and think it's ok. Could be a difference of "what is disrespectful" between me and the average person.
 

ulrich

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@Rain, not sure if the following applies to you as you seem to have some experience but I am writing it for anyone else that may be reading this thread.

In old school PUA there is a concept called frame control which basically means that you should always choose the interpretation of the events/conversation that benefits you.

If a girl is rude to you, depending of the situation, there are many interpretations that you could choose to fit the situation. "She is a terrible person", "She is having a bad day", "This is the way she protects hersefl, it's all a charade", "She hates my guts", "She thinks I'm ugly".
Some of these are much more useful than other and your mission is subsconsiusly choose the best one for yoyr goal and act on it so you influence the girl to see the situation as it benefits you.

If you choose the interpretation that hurts you, you will not have success in influencing her.

There is this wrong notion that being an alpha is being a though guy that everyone respects, follow orders from and crushes anyone who challenge him.
That works really well in low-value settings where people have no real social leverage but as you scale in society you will notice that the powerful (real high value people: CEOs, politicians, millionaires, top players...) are not "alpha" in the traditional sense.

They are not constantly asserting their dominance overtly and ordering people around. They are instead calm, collected and leading.
people follow them not because they fear them but beacuase they trust them.
These men are experts at choosingand creating frames where it would be benefitial to the other part to follow these men's instructions.
This is something any seducer should aspire to if he is really aiming to influece people/women and become a true leader of men.
 

Lover

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Would I have laughed in their face though?

I feel disrespected that you thought I was talking about you personally...

I'm joking. These were counterexamples, and I wasn't talking about you personally. I think you misunderstood my intention. And with one exception in your second example (the weird girl from POF), I have a feeling this is happening in the other examples you provided, You say that girls laughing or writing lol are disrespecting you, but are they really if that is not their intention? I don't think so
 

PrancingRabbit

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So appreciate this post thread! I relate to not fielding contrariness well in texting. Really helpful to see another dude admit to having these issues, and such good advice/wisdom from the forum.
 
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