- Joined
- Jun 13, 2024
- Messages
- 302
Does Age Matter in Dating?
Disclaimer: I am not a dating coach nor am I selling any dating products or services this blog is really for recreational usage to reflect on my previous experiences in daygame and to share my insi…
mindful-masculinity.org
I started running night game properly at 21 did daygame at 25 with my first daygame lay when I was 26 and only hit to my stride to get my first girlfriend at 28 by all definitions I was a late bloomer in that I got my first girlfriend pretty old - in comparison to others in the daygame space I was latish but still gave myself time to prove and improve myself - compared to most other dating coaches who started their “daygame journeys” when they had already had girlfriend’s or married to name a few: Tom Torero and Nick Krauser ( who started daygame after their respective divorces) — I started raw but I had time in the tank to make mistakes compared to most people who had started in their 30s/40s . The dating coaches I looked up to the majority were aged 25-35 so had spent a good portion of their time approaching too and had made the change relatively quickly. However I will provide examples of “old successes in the PUA sphere to encourage perhaps the older readers of the blog not to think too much of their dating issues regarding age .
Examples of old people doing well : There are numerous examples from the PUA sphere of "old people" doing well in their dating lives and i will provide a few now.
James Marshall
Began coaching in his mid 20s and was doing a lot of approaches , his company really hit it's stride in his mid 30s and he flourished and peaked with his 21 convention speeches particularly his Melbourne opening keynote speech . Yes this guy in theory started young- but the bulk of his successes came between the ages of 30-40 - he is still running game in his mid 40s now and is releasing instructional content to this date. So he’s an example of an “old man” still doing it.
Learn more about James at: https://thenaturallifestyles.com/
Ross Jeffries
Look I don’t like the guy, I think his arguments are weak as fuck on a lot of things dating wise. His system is overcomplicated and I don’t think anything he’s said has ever resonated with me. In fact a lot of other dating coaches that I do like see him as bs. But this guy started old - seemingly has visually looked like a old sack of potatoes since he first started but managed to get alleged successes - I can’t even verify how much these “successes “are true. But whatever. He’s an old man that did well and is still loved and appreciated by the pua community- I would never recommend his crap to anyone though and I plan to review some of his nonsense books soon on my blog.
Nick Krauser
The man started aged 35 after a bad divorce and ending to an 8 year marriage. The Newcastle born London bases pick up artist then managed an impressive 100 lays between the ages of 35-43 forming impressive partnerships with the likes of Tom Torero- his blogs amassed 100,000s views and he ended up speaking at the 21 convention in Warsaw Poland. Despite being jaded with poor logistics in London, a bitter divorce , being bald and average looking man he strived to garner many impressive lays including an Uzbek model bar many more. He’s currently in a relationship and has plans to start a family in the future . All together he can be deemed a success for starting late and having such a positive impact on the game as a whole. If anyone thinks being in your mid 30s is too late - Krauser amassed 100 lays and 9 written books on pua - so what’s your excuse ? Granted a good chunky of his success in his books happened pre - instagram and online dating boom you still respect the hustle- especially seeing as most of his early lays came when he had a full time job too.
Learn more about Nick At: https://krauserpua.com/
Sasha Daygame
Spent much of his late 20s to mid 30s doing daygame he started around aged 27 - teaching bootcamps etc. A late bloomer and someone who has made three fantastic 21 convention speeches - someone who cottoned on late and still did well - making his first 21 convention speech aged 36- teaming up with James Marshall to have somewhat of a global impact on the dating scene . In the last 6 years or so its unclear how his dating life is going though.
James Social (James Maclane)
James Mclean started approaching women in his 30s and went on to have an illustrious career as “James Social coach” - someone who lost his virginity in his late 20s and went on to begin his pickup journey in his 30s have girlfriends from 30 different countries. He formed a solid partnership with James Marshall and Sasha game whilst also working with Anthony Dream Johnson to have one of the most influential dating speeches at the 21 convention. Someone who started the journey very late- who lost his virginity later than all the famous dating coaches but went on to do extremely well with women and have an illustrious career whilst even appearing as a dating coach on mainstream TV in Australia .
Learn more at Social Coach: https://www.socialcoach.com/
Tom Torero
Whilst Tom started daygame in his early 20s he did numerous interviews with his clients in their 40s,50s and even 60s that did well in the daygame game. He also had numerous wings that were in their 40s and 50s. Tom Torero did numerous podcasts with wingmen over 30s to prove his point with one listed below:
https://creators.spotify.com/pod/pr...t-023--Dating-For-Men-Over-30-Yrs-Old-e2fqgn1
Young men starting the daygame journey:
By far my most successful wings were typically in their late twenties to mid thirties - I very rarely met anyone young who was “crushing it” in the game. Young people around those aged 18-25 typically meet a lot of problems when starting the game:
They are unable to have the maturity to carry on conversations for long periods of time - harder to hook sets due to lack of life experience. What made my daygame interactions better was literally simply doing more shit with my life. The more things I did the easier it was to hook conversations . When I was interacting with women during my early twenties it was pretty hellish- I simply hadn’t done enough interesting shit with my life to carry conversations. I got exposed on dates and in interactions due to my lack of life experiences. When watching my younger wingmen 18-22 in interactions a lot of them struggled the same. They had simply not done enough with their lives to create conversations and hook . Some people say you can simply use lines and routines to pickup most women- but eventually a lot of them will see through it if you’re a boring dick who’s done nothing with your life like I was .
Now that I’m in my thirties its a lot easier to hook conversations - I speak a variety of languages including Japanese, Korean, Russian and Chinese. Life has gotten easier to relate to people due to my increasing life experiences . I believe older people have a distinct advantage providing they use there time well of course- if you spent your years between your 20s and 30s jerking off to porn and not doing much else with your spare time to raise your smv the likelihood is -yes your age will hinder your dating life there is no question about that. The problem with vague questions like “does age matter” is it entirely depends on so many different variables to make an immediate conclusion - your height, wealth , how well you look after yourself - diet and alcohol consumption , even your skincare routine and your life experiences all play an important role and if you excel at those other points then age will matter less.
How did my youngest wingmen aged 18-20 fair? The majority of them quit very quickly, they didn't take it seriously, they tired easily after approaching and would procrastinate a lot. What i found with the early 20s wingmen was they lacked discipline for the craft- what they had in energy was often lacking in discipline, life experience and maturity. It total i had about 4 wingmen in london between 18-20 they all quit daygame after a few months. Of course its a small sample size but the majority of people i met doing this in London were aged 25+
Tom Torero
Whilst Tom started daygame in his early 20s he did numerous interviews with his clients in their 40s,50s and even 60s that did well in the daygame game. He also had numerous wings that were in their 40s and 50s. Tom Torero did numerous podcasts with wingmen over 30s to prove his point with one listed below:
https://creators.spotify.com/pod/pr...t-023--Dating-For-Men-Over-30-Yrs-Old-e2fqgn1
Young men starting the daygame journey:
By far my most successful wings were typically in their late twenties to mid thirties - I very rarely met anyone young who was “crushing it” in the game. Young people around those aged 18-25 typically meet a lot of problems when starting the game:
They are unable to have the maturity to carry on conversations for long periods of time - harder to hook sets due to lack of life experience. What made my daygame interactions better was literally simply doing more shit with my life. The more things I did the easier it was to hook conversations . When I was interacting with women during my early twenties it was pretty hellish- I simply hadn’t done enough interesting shit with my life to carry conversations. I got exposed on dates and in interactions due to my lack of life experiences. When watching my younger wingmen 18-22 in interactions a lot of them struggled the same. They had simply not done enough with their lives to create conversations and hook . Some people say you can simply use lines and routines to pickup most women- but eventually a lot of them will see through it if you’re a boring dick who’s done nothing with your life like I was .
Now that I’m in my thirties its a lot easier to hook conversations - I speak a variety of languages including Japanese, Korean, Russian and Chinese. Life has gotten easier to relate to people due to my increasing life experiences . I believe older people have a distinct advantage providing they use there time well of course- if you spent your years between your 20s and 30s jerking off to porn and not doing much else with your spare time to raise your smv the likelihood is -yes your age will hinder your dating life there is no question about that. The problem with vague questions like “does age matter” is it entirely depends on so many different variables to make an immediate conclusion - your height, wealth , how well you look after yourself - diet and alcohol consumption , even your skincare routine and your life experiences all play an important role and if you excel at those other points then age will matter less.
How did my youngest wingmen aged 18-20 fair? The majority of them quit very quickly, they didn't take it seriously, they tired easily after approaching and would procrastinate a lot. What i found with the early 20s wingmen was they lacked discipline for the craft- what they had in energy was often lacking in discipline, life experience and maturity. It total i had about 4 wingmen in london between 18-20 they all quit daygame after a few months. Of course its a small sample size but the majority of people i met doing this in London were aged 25+
Young men take time on the field for granted
Think having winged with 18-22 year olds a lot in London they often lack the work ethic and consistency to be good as i said before. A lot of them give up , most of them struggle to hook sets due to lack of life experience, a lot of women don’t take them seriously due to their age and that’s understandable - I think as a man you always need more than just approaching and looks. With running daygame you need a lot of consistency and a good work ethic, simply being young or having attractive traits isn’t enough without the work ethic to match. It takes time to realise the importance of approaching women and the benefit that they add to you and young people themselves simply take their time for granted too much when they were young . Even when I was aged 25-28 doing cold approach in London I slacked off a lot, not doing the complicated sets and not persisting enough at crucial moments. There has to be a degree of hustle to make this work and the older you get, the more experiences you garner the more you value your time the more efficient you will become. But that process to appreciate time and appreciate cold approach takes time in itself. You may give up at 25 then have a midlife crisis in your 30s in which you need to increase your options and you find that daygame is the best way. It can take longer or shorter for different people - different people adapt to life's challenges in different ways.
Young men are more prone to distractions - most young people have more bad habits in the game on average, drinking alcohol , lack of discipline and poor diet. Again life experience makes you appreciate the importance of having discipline in these aspects of your life but without having the maturity to appreciate these aspects which young men often don’t you will be vulnerable to the issues that come with negating them. Like many things it takes experience to know you should probably stop drinking alcohol and approach women, it takes experience to know that you should probably hit the gym and eat healthier food- all these things take time to learn and realise. When you start the game you gotta be open minded to taking on board advice- from my experience older people tended to take advice on board better because they simply understood the importance of discipline more.
Advantages of Old People in game:
More Maturity
Older men in general get more respect from women due to their life experience , remember as Tom Torero said “Men typically want someone who is similar to their Mum” And “Women typically are looking for those with similar characteristics to that of their dad” by having more maturity and life experience older men are usually more attractive in this regard - again this can vary case by case but looking back through high school my male friends were extremely immature and often looked down upon by the females in our school who’d often go and date older men - why because these men were typically more interesting and had more life experiences under their belt and could hook them more. They could also provide a lot more interesting companionship long term - Dating older men could also be seen as a “lower risk” option for women as older men are usually more wealthy and well adjusted to society. A young and inexperienced man could prove too risky or too big a “project” for a woman to date. There is a caveat to this though - a young man might be seen as more of a “hero” going on his journey - the chance to see a young man grow and evolve is also in an enticing prospect for some woman as opposed to someone who's fully calcified.
Higher Chance of Respect
Similar to the more maturity aspect, but a problem I noticed with my young wingmen was they had difficulty drawing respect from women due to their lack of life experience. Even when I was gaming in my late 20s I still found myself being rejected from women during cold approaches for being too young- when I was in my early 20s it was pretty hellish and really difficult to draw respect from highly desirable women due to my lack of life experience relative to other men who were in their late 20s and early 30s.
Women Traditionally like to date older men
Majority of women like older men in general - as perfectly explained in Rollo Tommasi’s book the rational male typically women date older and men want to ideally date women in their mid 20s whereas women aim for 30s-40s valuing experience over other things.
Disadvantages of Old People in game:
Lower Testosterone
Older you get the less testosterone you produce - this may decrease your willingness to approach - so if you’re having issues with discipline or eagerness to approach women it maybe worth getting your testosterone checked - or making alterations to your lifestyle to increase your testosterone level. These may include modifying your diet, increasing your sunlight exposure, improving your sleep- wearing blue light blocking glasses to protect your testosterone levels at night time and giving up alcohol - due to my shitty lifestyle at university I ended up with a low testosterone problem that took a decent 4-5 years to rectify. I gave up alcohol and increased my sunlight exposure that brought up my testosterone levels - I also found a strong methylene blue supplement that helps me well now too this has given me some noticeable improvements in the gym . All In all though some forms of game like night game which involves a lot of crap that can harm testosterone level like blue light and alcohol can be counterintuitive to your health so make sure you take that into account when picking which aspect of game you chose to “commit to” . Long periods of Night game can ruin your T levels and can make the transition to daygame harder- in contrast daygame can be seen as the “healthier option” you’re exercising more by walking a lot for starters you are also increasing your T levels by being outside at absorbing sunlight.
Low Testosterone is also likely to come with other annoying set backs like for example - less muscle, weight gain, low libido and less desire to approach and overall more beta like behaviour. If you’re in your 30s its imperative to start doing habits to improve and protect your testosterone level - go outside get sunlight, go to the gym , stop drinking alcohol etc. In order To preserve your smv and ensure a long lasting and for filling dating life.
More likely to be trapped by life commitments impeding their chances of improvement:
Typically speaking men in their 30s and 40s have more life commitments that can impede their opportunities to run game and dates- of course this varies from person to person but generally my wingmen aged 30-40 were more “busy “ with life than my younger wings. Generally from this perspective your time on this earth is limited and the younger you start game usually the better. The life commitments like long hours in a job promotion, business or kids are likely to impede the time to improve your dating life so the older you get the more you need to work on your time management.
Calcification Of Social Circles
Young people 18-25 usually have a better chance of doing well in certain situations like social circle game -of course it depends on what said social circle is if its a high end nightclub event for example an older more mature man might be more respected in that environment. But for university students there are big opportunities to run game and develop social circles- the older you get the more calcified social circles become and the opportunities to meet new women become limited. Of course the beauty of daygame is it doesn’t matter what your age you can still run sets no matter what age you are. But for social circles they usually have a set “time limit” and after 3-5 years usually they can run their course and everyone settles down and finds LTRs. Of course you can always form new ones but these take time- really any form of game takes time - be it social circle, daygame or night game. Forming new connections and wingmen takes time too so you need to make sure you are disciplined and understand the time expense that comes with that.
Time Constraints of life
Im in my 30s now there’s definitely a feeling that I have a lot “less time” to improve on a lot of issues. I understand this and even If I do improve the time I have to enjoy said improvement is less. Take for example learning a language to improve your smv- if you become fluent in Chinese after one year for example you have “less time” to utilise that skillset of the new language you’ve learnt. Lets say you buy a house and make a million dollars you have “less time” to utilise that advantage of logistics compared to say if you were in your 20s- this might sound basic and a bit stupid but often people take for granted the advantages they have relative to those around them or fail to understand that everything in life is limited to some degree even the advantages that you have compared to others aren’t going to last forever - you should utilise them as quick as possible- ideally starting pickup as soon as possible. Throughout my pickup journey I had numerous issues with being complacent and lacking drive really to pull through and make the most of my youth - It wasn’t until I matured in my late 20s that I realised I should probably not have taken my early 20s for granted and should have worked harder in meeting new people.
Certain women may reject you for your age-
Now this is up to interpretation because age matters differently to different women - some don’t give a shit - others do , others might do if there’s other parts of the smv that aren’t up to scratch . I don’t think I’ve been rejected for being “too old” but even at 27 and 28 doing cold approach I had some women flake on me for being too young- this was when I was approaching women in their 30s. So men very much have time on their sound compared to women and in a lot of cases being older can be attractive if there’s other parts of your smv to match. Often times people will blame age when in reality its other parts of their personality, smv or vibe that’s letting down the interactions and it’s up to you to identify that.
Sperm Quality decline in Elderly men:
Rollo Tomassi and the Red pill gang make a habit of insulting or degrading women who enter their 30s for running out of eggs and depreciating egg quality in women but lets be honest as men we suffer the same, maybe not in such an aggressive decline as women's eggs - my sperm quality is probably not as good as what it was 10 years ago and it’s going to decline continually - even if I'm 33 now it will most likely be going down for you,me and every other man- time and life is finite and the strength of your swimmers most definitely is too.
The Price for not Improving
If you haven’t improved smv optimally by 30/40 it can be difficult to be taken seriously: The younger you are usually the more accepting of your errors women usually are. Although this is obviously dependent on a woman’s personal preferences. For some the masculine archetype of a young man might be very sexy and appealing compared to an older man. For others the safety of dating an older man - a man who has his shit is figured out can be a lot more appealing than someone young , dumb and finding themselves through life. Alternatively the appeal of being “wanted” by a young man might be a turn on for some older women. Of course it all varies from person to person there’s always exceptions and the more you work hard approaching the more “exceptions” you can find.
So the quicker you start the more likely you are to be “forgiven” but if you are in your 30s and 40s approaching with issues like financial problems, smv issues weight issues the odds of this blocking your success in the future will most likely increase.
Conclusions
I’ve had wingmen old and young and can say that opportunities are there no matter what your age. For those making excuses you need to look no further than Nick Krausser as the prime example - average looking dude from Newcastle with no really redeemable features apart from maybe his British passport and his intelligence and he still made the best out of it coming from a traumatic divorce and went on to succeed and have over 100 sexual partners. I assume most people reading this blog are at least equal to or better looking than him so if he can do it so can you . Im glad I started daygame at 25 to be honest I wish I started a lot earlier but I was simply too much of a puss to do so. It just wasn’t in my reality to approach people on the street - I was a lazy individual growing up who was unable to stomach the pain of rejection and as a result I missed out on opportunities . If you’re reading this make sure you don’t waste time and get out there and form social connections and approach - time is of the essence for everyone whether you’re a male 10 or a fatass male 1 make sure you work hard and persist to get the dating life you want.
