Does her past = her future. Here was my experience....

Invictus_Reformed

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Rookie
Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
3
I got involved with a 42 year-old widow mother of 2 (5 and 8) who had lost her husband and father of her children to suicide just 3-months prior. I was reluctant at first and even called it off early for a few months thereafter and then we spent over a year together thereafter. We were in love, happy, and had even talked about marriage in the future. Here's the rub....I learned over a period of a year that she had a colorful past (twenties to early thirties) not remembering exactly how many men she had slept with ("it was so long ago"). As a result of her mentioning not knowing the first names of a couple people she had slept with (one night stands) I inquired her about how many people she had been with (in a non-threatening way)....she said under 25, then under 20...then when I said it seemed she didn't really know she then said it was 20. Not really a long enough list to lose count or not know. Anyway, I'd have been OK with 20 (30-40 is my best guess)....30-40 is a bit high for my taste. No judgement to all the gamers out there. OK, so most of this was before age 32...she had been married for the previous 10-years...., but it gets better.

So, again...I wouldn't have even wanted to attempt to have the body count conversation had it not been for her mentioning (unsolicited) that she couldn't remember a few of the first names of some of the guys she'd slept with in the past. Also, she mentioned a menage a trois (guy/two girls), sleeping with a male stripper (not sure why she would share that), and a few other small items. Again, most of this came out on its own. Due to some of this...I thought it was a good idea to know more...asked about past number of partners...and also I learned that she was sleeping a guy with before me, but supposedly after her husband had passed (would have been within 1-3 months of her husband passing). I thought this was a bit of a red flag....not totally judging, but in light of the other stuff as well...I was definitely feeling uneasy.

Still, whatever....most of it figuring things out in her 20's, however, again....these items raised some suspicion as to whether it was just a youthful streak or part her current character based on the more recent activity. Separately, I initiated dirty talk in the bedroom (it can be hot...partially do it to test boundaries), but she mentioned being sucking two guys off at once or being fucked by more than one guy at a time. Again, I initiated it.., but when asked whether she would have regrets afterward in real life she said "it probably wouldn't stop her". I guess I shouldn't be shocked....so much for "fantasy". Oh yeah, we slept together first time we hooked up....not much different from many of the girls I've dated in my 40's....., but whatever...I STILL didn't see any of the rest of this coming. She was raised super christian...didn't have sex until 18....handles herself well....fairly reserved....and my initial impression of her was on the complete other side of the spectrum. Regardless, by then I was already way involved. I

am fairly experienced, built, make a good living, and her initial impression was that I was more advanced than she was....she likely thought I had similar experiences..., therefore, was willing to divulge much of this. Admittedly, I take my martini's slightly dirty, but DAMN...so much for the church girl. Still, she was in love with me and generally a very good girlfriend....and not to mention smoking hot. So, I communicated a few of these concerns...she became defensive....it became a bit of an issue....she was not the best communicator...and I began to be a little more cautious.

For the benefit of the group or anyone willing to read this novel....to answer the question DOES THE PAST EQUAL HER FUTURE....as I was willing to let the situation play out.....toward the end of our 15-months together I learned (on my own) that she was having an affair for 3-months prior to her husband taking his own life. Supposedly he didn't know, he was already clinically depressed..., but it obviously could have been a contributing factor. She continued the relationship for months afterward (I find that f*cking repugnant considering it could have been a factor)...and then supposedly ended the affair relationship soon after she and I became involved (hmmm...). Even though she didn't do it to me...it's a complete mental mindjob to me how somebody repeatedly cheats on their spouse and then comes home, kisses her kids (3 and 6 at the time), and gets in bed with her husband at night. The natural assumption is that if she could do it to him....she could definitely do it to me.

Throughout our relationship she lied about what seemed like an item or two....and never shared the happenings of the affair....even when asked about faithfulness in their marriage. To boot, she wasn't drawing a clear line with at least one previous suitor (a "friend") when he texted her during/throughout our relationship. I believe in trusting (perhaps to much), but verifying....so, yes....I checked her phone a few times (we had each others codes), checked her computer once, and read her notes/journal that she left out on her dresser. Save any comments there...I don't regret that one bit...mainly because I found a few of the things mentioned here as a result. I immediately told her about me reading her notes that she left out on her dresser exposed. She sobbed in my arms from the guilt of having the affair on her husband never having the ability to apologize or reconcile. I actually have a heart for that and was still willing to give it a shot believing we might finally have all the cards out on the table. The defense to her never telling me about the affair is that she did not feel emotionally safe (as a result of my reaction/communication to some of the other things mentioned) and thought I might leave. Pathetic....this is bullshit. Anyone who compromises their honesty for fear of judgement or consequences is still a liar...plain and simple.

At the end she was painting the picture to her/our friends that I was jealous, controlling, judgmental, and unforgiving...of course, not sharing the various details of the situation. Despite seeing this type behavior from other women before...and potentially having a trust issue of my own, I can own that....the need to feel safe/respected and check up on things from time to time. I feel like that's more a a wisdom gained from experience (WGFE) issue than a PTD issue. That said, I don't want to feel the need to do that in future relationships and will have a conversation and/or leave before doing so in the future, but again, I don't regret doing it in any relationship I've been in this far....discovering some amazing sh*t and saving myself months or years in the process.

In the case of this woman, I could deal with a partner working through their grief of recently losing a spouse. I could deal with a colorful past. I could deal with her making a few mistakes in our relationship. I could probably deal with the character the previous affair believing that she had probably learned a huge freaking lesson...., but what I CAN'T deal with is dishonesty (lies of omission or otherwise) and potentially keeping the backdoor open for other suitors while in a committed relationship...especially in light of the rest of it. She was so angry about my suspicion and reading her notes and seemed so unwilling to take ownership and work on things that I ended it. Judging by her history and lack of effort/engagement at the end I suspect she monkey-branched back to the relationship with affair boy. Regardless of the fact I ended it...it still f*cking hurts.

Despite all it...I loved the time we spent together and really loved her. I would consider myself privy to most all red pill content...and feel like a complete moron for not seeing it sooner....or being surprised by her likely monkey-branching back to this dude. I have no evidence of that at the moment...I just feel it. Anyway, gentleman....screen HARD upfront....and don't judge a book by its cover. I want as far away from the cheating, overlap, and dishonesty in relationships as possible. On that subject, I found the article on here regarding cheating/how to get a spouse/significant other not to cheat enlightening. I'm willing to take ownership of whatever I am responsible for in this situation so the chances of this happening again is minimized. Regardless, you can be a hero to a woman...and if they're one to lie or cheat they're going to do it regardless. Anyway, I am a new member and have found much of the other content helpful as well.

Any comments/thoughts on my logic (or lack therof) much appreciated.

Peace!
 
Last edited:

Starboy

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
94
I got involved with a 42 year-old widow mother of 2 (5 and 8) who had lost her husband and father of her children to suicide just 3-months prior. I was reluctant at first and even called it off early for a few months thereafter and then we spent over a year together thereafter. We were in love, happy, and had even talked about marriage in the future. Here's the rub....I learned over a period of a year that she had a colorful past (twenties to early thirties) not remembering exactly how many men she had slept with ("it was so long ago"). As a result of her mentioning not knowing the first names of a couple people she had slept with (one night stands) I inquired her about how many people she had been with (in a non-threatening way)....she said under 25, then under 20...then when I said it seemed she didn't really know she then said it was 20. Not really a long enough list to lose count or not know. Anyway, I'd have been OK with 20 (30-40 is my best guess)....30-40 is a bit high for my taste. No judgement to all the gamers out there. OK, so most of this was before age 32...she had been married for the previous 10-years...., but it gets better.

So, again...I wouldn't have even wanted to attempt to have the body count conversation had it not been for her mentioning (unsolicited) that she couldn't remember a few of the first names of some of the guys she'd slept with in the past. Also, she mentioned a menage a trois (guy/two girls), sleeping with a male stripper (not sure why she would share that), and a few other small items. Again, most of this came out on its own. Due to some of this...I thought it was a good idea to know more...asked about past number of partners...and also I learned that she was sleeping a guy with before me, but supposedly after her husband had passed (would have been within 1-3 months of her husband passing). I thought this was a bit of a red flag....not totally judging, but in light of the other stuff as well...I was definitely feeling uneasy.

Still, whatever....most of it figuring things out in her 20's, however, again....these items raised some suspicion as to whether it was just a youthful streak or part her current character based on the more recent activity. Separately, I initiated dirty talk in the bedroom (it can be hot...partially do it to test boundaries), but she mentioned being sucking two guys off at once or being fucked by more than one guy at a time. Again, I initiated it.., but when asked whether she would have regrets afterward in real life she said "it probably wouldn't stop her". I guess I shouldn't be shocked....so much for "fantasy". Oh yeah, we slept together first time we hooked up....not much different from many of the girls I've dated in my 40's....., but whatever...I STILL didn't see any of the rest of this coming. She was raised super christian...didn't have sex until 18....handles herself well....fairly reserved....and my initial impression of her was on the complete other side of the spectrum. Regardless, by then I was already way involved. I

am fairly experienced, built, make a good living, and her initial impression was that I was more advanced than she was....she likely thought I had similar experiences..., therefore, was willing to divulge much of this. Admittedly, I take my martini's slightly dirty, but DAMN...so much for the church girl. Still, she was in love with me and generally a very good girlfriend....and not to mention smoking hot. So, I communicated a few of these concerns...she became defensive....it became a bit of an issue....she was not the best communicator...and I began to be a little more cautious.

For the benefit of the group or anyone willing to read this novel....to answer the question DOES THE PAST EQUAL HER FUTURE....as I was willing to let the situation play out.....toward the end of our 15-months together I learned (on my own) that she was having an affair for 3-months prior to her husband taking his own life. Supposedly he didn't know, he was already clinically depressed..., but it obviously could have been a contributing factor. She continued the relationship for months afterward (I find that f*cking repugnant considering it could have been a factor)...and then supposedly ended the affair relationship soon after she and I became involved (hmmm...). Even though she didn't do it to me...it's a complete mental mindjob to me how somebody repeatedly cheats on their spouse and then comes home, kisses her kids (3 and 6 at the time), and gets in bed with her husband at night. The natural assumption is that if she could do it to him....she could definitely do it to me.

Throughout our relationship she lied about what seemed like an item or two....and never shared the happenings of the affair....even when asked about faithfulness in their marriage. To boot, she wasn't drawing a clear line with at least one previous suitor (a "friend") when he texted her during/throughout our relationship. I believe in trusting (perhaps to much), but verifying....so, yes....I checked her phone a few times (we had each others codes), checked her computer once, and read her notes/journal that she left out on her dresser. Save any comments there...I don't regret that one bit...mainly because I found a few of the things mentioned here as a result. I immediately told her about me reading her notes that she left out on her dresser exposed. She sobbed in my arms from the guilt of having the affair on her husband never having the ability to apologize or reconcile. I actually have a heart for that and was still willing to give it a shot believing we might finally have all the cards out on the table. The defense to her never telling me about the affair is that she did not feel emotionally safe (as a result of my reaction/communication to some of the other things mentioned) and thought I might leave. Pathetic....this is bullshit. Anyone who compromises their honesty for fear of judgement or consequences is still a liar...plain and simple.

At the end she was painting the picture to her/our friends that I was jealous, controlling, judgmental, and unforgiving...of course, not sharing the various details of the situation. Despite seeing this type behavior from other women before...and potentially having a trust issue of my own, I can own that....the need to feel safe/respected and check up on things from time to time. I feel like that's more a a wisdom gained from experience (WGFE) issue than a PTD issue. That said, I don't want to feel the need to do that in future relationships and will have a conversation and/or leave before doing so in the future, but again, I don't regret doing it in any relationship I've been in this far....discovering some amazing sh*t and saving myself months or years in the process.

In the case of this woman, I could deal with a partner working through their grief of recently losing a spouse. I could deal with a colorful past. I could deal with her making a few mistakes in our relationship. I could probably deal with the character the previous affair believing that she had probably learned a huge freaking lesson...., but what I CAN'T deal with is dishonesty (lies of omission or otherwise) and potentially keeping the backdoor open for other suitors while in a committed relationship...especially in light of the rest of it. She was so angry about my suspicion and reading her notes and seemed so unwilling to take ownership and work on things that I ended it. Judging by her history and lack of effort/engagement at the end I suspect she monkey-branched back to the relationship with affair boy. Regardless of the fact I ended it...it still f*cking hurts.

Despite all it...I loved the time we spent together and really loved her. I would consider myself privy to most all red pill content...and feel like a complete moron for not seeing it sooner....or being surprised by her likely monkey-branching back to this dude. I have no evidence of that at the moment...I just feel it. Anyway, gentleman....screen HARD upfront....and don't judge a book by its cover. I want as far away from the cheating, overlap, and dishonesty in relationships as possible. On that subject, I found the article on here regarding cheating/how to get a spouse/significant other not to cheat enlightening. I'm willing to take ownership of whatever I am responsible for in this situation so the chances of this happening again is minimized. Regardless, you can be a hero to a woman...and if they're one to lie or cheat they're going to do it regardless. Anyway, I am a new member and have found much of the other content helpful as well.

Any comments/thoughts on my logic (or lack therof) much appreciated.

Peace!
Yeah bro I would say most people really don't change drastically. She wasn't really that reserved to begin with. Yeah she may have been raised in a christian household and lost her virginity at 18,but none of that matters if she made up for lost time by sleeping around in her twenties ,having affairs,threesomes(mmf and ffm). Was she a heavy party girl who liked to go to clubs and go to bars to hookup with guys? It sounds like it even if she never explicitly tells you.You may have grown really attached to her just because she was available to you and us men tire of working hard to find the ideal high quality women so we take what's available to us. If she looks good has bomb ass pussy we'll cuff her or maybe even wife her. It's even more likely for us to do this if we are young and inexperienced. I may settle for some girl who I know logically isn't a ideal ltr candidate,but if she looks good and is offering herself to me the emotional part of my brain that desires comfort and physical intimacy with the least amount of stress possible will override the logic.
You don't want to think that you are an exception to a woman's infidelity. If you do are setting yourself up for failure and dissapointment down the line. Maybe it won't happen right away,but the likelihood is high and you may not even know of it when it happens. Never think that you are special. Us men have egos and we like to think that we are the shit and that we are superior to our competition,but that thinking will be your downfall. If she did it to one man she can definetly do it to you no matter how you try to justify it.
She also lies too much and keeps too much hidden from you which is a bad sign. If she can't recall her earliest partners then she probably just wants to keep that information hidden from you because she feels like you will judge her or not trust her or think she's a slut. Women who avoid talking about their past do it so they don't have to disclose information that they don't want to share. In her case it would be benefecial for her to not talk about her vast sexual history,but it seems like she did it on her own accord for some reason.
I think you know deep down that this woman is not best for your future and the further you are in this relationship the harder it will be for you to leave because you invested so much time and energy into having a relationship with this woman. Your instincts have told you she's a slut who sleeps around too much which is why you were able to recognize red flags and had reservations about having a relationship with her,but you craved love and a emotional connection so you're willing to ignore it and brush it aside. But I think yes the past will just manifest itself into the future. It's best for you to cut this woman off because she doesn't sound like she is stable for a ltr sexually or mentally. Especially if it's a marriage thats a whole nother can of worms.Her life just sounds a bit fucked up and I think you should walk away from that. But the final decision is up to you. Hope this helps
 

Invictus_Reformed

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Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
3
Thanks Space Monkey. It helps to write it all down....and for the affirmation/validation. Admittedly, there's a part of me that thinks I had I slept with more partners (personally 20...married for 12-years...together 17...I'm 44) than I could remember that it may just not be an issue. The situation gives me the idea of just saying *uck it....I am going to begin racking up the count so that I am less likely to find myself in a situation of being with a girl who's slept with more people than I have. Not sure if that would actually cure it...or if it's a destructive mentality in general. It's really not even the notch count issue with this girl that was the issue...it was just a huge *ucking clue. It's the dishonesty. I don't subscribe to the logic that lying or hiding information out of self-preservation is justified (not that you suggested that). I could have dealt with most of it..., but the point of the post and sharing is that their pasts are often indicative of their futures...and this is a prime example. In this case, a woman who collected a fat check from her husband's life insurance policy ($1M+) after he killed himself as she's fucking somebody else for months beforehand...possibly even being a contributing factor. Of course, she's not responsible for his decision, but damn savage. He was more of the beta provider type...and even if she wanted to leave him for another man she couldn't have....so, she just decided to cheat instead. B*itch needed to grow some balls one way or the other. As a sidenote, had a conversation with a guy today who found out his 15 year-old daughter wasn't actually his and he's been paying child support for years. Holy sh*t....small problems on my end. I'll see how I feel 5-10 notches later....
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
3,505
@Invictus_Reformed,

Sounds like she was quite a piece of work!

Check out this article:


But yeah, when you see stuff like that:

  • Love bombing
  • Wild sexual past
  • Large amounts of lying/distortion
  • History of abuse (either claiming to receive it, or obviously delivering it themselves)
  • Smearing you following a breakup to turn everyone against you

... all together in concert they should get you to take a closer look at her for personality disorders (especially borderline personality disorder).

Any one of those things on its own might be just "well that's her personality." But when you see a bunch together, often it's a sign of something more.

I don't know how much of her other behavior matches up with BPD. I usually recommend guys check this article to see if it's all there:


Past is not a perfect predictor of the future. But it tends to be about the most reliable metric you're going to get:


If she is a Cluster B type of gal, those relationships can feel AMAZING right up until they don't. It's not a strike against you if you didn't see it early on. Takes some experience with folks like this to be able to sift through their behavior and recognize their tactics for tactics and impulsive emotions for fleeting (rather than lasting) attachment.

Anyway, probably good that you got out... and welcome aboard!

Chase
 
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