Hey Guys, I had a question about dominance, so I have read Chase's article on dominance where he concludes that dominance is winning and victory and the way to become dominant is to "always find a way to win." So i am struggling a bit on this point of finding a way to win. I am not sure how to put this into practice. Whenever I am in a situation either with a girl or co-worker or boss or friend etc. If they challenge me , I am able to stand my ground, but I am never able to come up with a dominant comeback where it feels like I won and rather its more of a stand-off or the person avoids doing things on my terms So, the question is how do I train up this skill and became proficient at thinking on my feet in stressful situation to create better wide frame angles and achieve dominant victory on my terms?
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- Mar 1, 2013
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I think you're thinking of "winning" incorrectly; don't think of it in terms of "competition," think of it in terms of value, investment, or results.
One of the biggest things I've picked up from Franco and Chase is that you're looking for the win-win in all situations; how do both YOU and the OTHER's involved get the most out of the situation?
-Richard
One of the biggest things I've picked up from Franco and Chase is that you're looking for the win-win in all situations; how do both YOU and the OTHER's involved get the most out of the situation?
-Richard
IMO you guys are making everything too complicated, then you get lost in the complications because you still can't figure it out what it actually is, then by trying to solve it you over complicate it even more...
It's garbage, keep it simple....
For simplicity, say there are 10 guys who are interested in fitness, weight lifting. They are same age, similar physique, and they start at the same level, say dead lift around 150 pounds.
They work hard, some harder than others, and after couple weeks say 6 of them lift 200 pounds, 2 lift 220, and 2 lift 230.
Who are the most dominant guys in this field? Obviously those two who lift the most, the 230 pounds. They are the real winners, they have the real winner effect, respectively they FEEL that they are good at something because they are simply better at it....
Unless you win something like that you can't really understand; it's rather the feeling that we are talking about, not some mind set...You KNOW you are good and others also KNOW that you are good, you just can't fake it..
Which usually results in them wanting to be even better, and they start working even harder because they feel that hey are good at something. That's a real winner effect, you feel good and confident that you are great at something, and you want more of that feeling so you work even harder...
This feeling also gives you real confidence, you are dominating everyone in your field of interest. You just know and feel that you are great at something, and you do it long time to solidify it in your mind... Once you grasp it, you'll start behaving accordingly in daily life, and around girls as well... Girls can feel that winner's effect....
Do you have to become Arnold or win Olympic? No you don't but it surly helps (LOL), just see how many times these champions get laid, they beat the best seducers here - with ZERO seduction knowledge...
Arnold at his peak, for example, got supposingly laid even multiple times per day - each time with another girl. Now you tell me, how much seduction he new back in 70's? I'll tell you exactly: ZERO. He didn't need seduction crap to get laid... So if you think how great you are if you get laid here and there with some random girl, think twice....
Now why is that, you might ask? Because that is REAL winner effect, real confidence, real dominance... not a fake one....You got to be good at something, not just fake it by mirroring others. Real confidence and dominance usually requires dedication, discipline, persistence and hard work because the competition out there is huge... You got to really put yourself out there in order to WIN...
Of course not everyone will become a world champion, but think about it - dominating local group of 10-20 guys in your field of interest will give you pretty damn good feeling. If you lift 400 pounds off the floor in your local area where everyone else is shaking under 250, you just have to feel that you are damn good, never mind if you can pull 500 or 600....
At the same time, it doesn't really have to be in weight lifting, or sport at all, but it sure help because you can easily monitor and track your performance, plus the muscles are visible and girls can literally smell the testosterone...
Be Real, don't fake it... Once you feel good about yourself, girls will start feeling good around you - naturally...
It's garbage, keep it simple....
For simplicity, say there are 10 guys who are interested in fitness, weight lifting. They are same age, similar physique, and they start at the same level, say dead lift around 150 pounds.
They work hard, some harder than others, and after couple weeks say 6 of them lift 200 pounds, 2 lift 220, and 2 lift 230.
Who are the most dominant guys in this field? Obviously those two who lift the most, the 230 pounds. They are the real winners, they have the real winner effect, respectively they FEEL that they are good at something because they are simply better at it....
Unless you win something like that you can't really understand; it's rather the feeling that we are talking about, not some mind set...You KNOW you are good and others also KNOW that you are good, you just can't fake it..
Which usually results in them wanting to be even better, and they start working even harder because they feel that hey are good at something. That's a real winner effect, you feel good and confident that you are great at something, and you want more of that feeling so you work even harder...
This feeling also gives you real confidence, you are dominating everyone in your field of interest. You just know and feel that you are great at something, and you do it long time to solidify it in your mind... Once you grasp it, you'll start behaving accordingly in daily life, and around girls as well... Girls can feel that winner's effect....
Do you have to become Arnold or win Olympic? No you don't but it surly helps (LOL), just see how many times these champions get laid, they beat the best seducers here - with ZERO seduction knowledge...
Arnold at his peak, for example, got supposingly laid even multiple times per day - each time with another girl. Now you tell me, how much seduction he new back in 70's? I'll tell you exactly: ZERO. He didn't need seduction crap to get laid... So if you think how great you are if you get laid here and there with some random girl, think twice....
Now why is that, you might ask? Because that is REAL winner effect, real confidence, real dominance... not a fake one....You got to be good at something, not just fake it by mirroring others. Real confidence and dominance usually requires dedication, discipline, persistence and hard work because the competition out there is huge... You got to really put yourself out there in order to WIN...
Of course not everyone will become a world champion, but think about it - dominating local group of 10-20 guys in your field of interest will give you pretty damn good feeling. If you lift 400 pounds off the floor in your local area where everyone else is shaking under 250, you just have to feel that you are damn good, never mind if you can pull 500 or 600....
At the same time, it doesn't really have to be in weight lifting, or sport at all, but it sure help because you can easily monitor and track your performance, plus the muscles are visible and girls can literally smell the testosterone...
Be Real, don't fake it... Once you feel good about yourself, girls will start feeling good around you - naturally...
so, when it comes to interacting with girls(especially) and other people in seduction , relationships and frame battles? How do i train myself to become the guy lifting 230 lbs how do i become the Arnold for that situation. What do i practice for that?
There is no easy answer. If you want easy answer go to the gym and start lifting weights...
We have to try to understand the whole philosophy though, philosophy of what is it being a man. Which is impossible in couple paragraphs, that is a topic for several books… We have to look at different generations, at our fathers, grandfathers, their grand-grand fathers and their lives, and so on. We have to look at whole human history and evolution to understand...
Looking in the past, our predecessors had rather difficult times. Many times they had to fight for survival. They struggled, they suffered, they had to protect their tribe and families, they had to physically and mentally dominate other males and other predators...They had no choice but to win, otherwise they would not survive. If you never heard about evolution, here is a quick summary: Only the strongest (meaning physically and mentally) and fittest (most adaptable) survive in harsh environment...
See, Mother Nature is cruel, she doesn't really give a damn about you or anyone else, she doesn’t care about your feelings and thoughts…. The reality is, that only those who Win in open Nature are allowed to reproduce and have descendants... It’s been like that for half a billion years; it is encoded in our brains, and even better – it is encoded in women’s brains… They can’t change it, they are programmed to open up to winners - and remain closed to losers...
Today, we are the result of evolution, and I am not talking about couple thousands of years, I am talking about some 6 millions years of evolution of humanoids in harsh and cruel environment, in open Nature: We humans (resp. men) are the most dangerous predators that ever lived on this planet. We can put in cages the most dangerous animals, we can kill them with minimal effort in their natural environment... We can destroy the entire planet in couple of minutes, rip it in half, smash it in pieces... We are the most dangerous predators this planet has ever feared...
We men build this civilization with our hands and brains, and as good as it is it also has huge disadvantage: We got too comfortable... We no longer struggle, we no longer have to fight or survive. Instead we sit comfortably on sofa, watch TV, computer or iPhones... We are sipping sodas, getting fat and lazy, we are getting all mellow, all emotional, sensitive, all weak... We are no longer predators – we became pussies…
Instead of suffering and overcoming various obstacles, instead of hunting, surviving and creating great things - we are studying psychology in cozy homes, we are studying feelings and emotions, we are sending smiles over iPhones and analyzing likes or replies on FB... We are reading girly stuff, figuring how and what girls think, trying to understand them, vibe with them... We are trying to figure out various seductive techniques how to "get them"...
All the comfort resulted in (physical and mental) weakness; we brought that weakness upon ourselves. Today’s men are no longer respected. Just look around, every girl is laughing today at what we call "men". Girls reject most guys anytime they want, without any consequences. The guys don’t really win anything anymore, everybody get’s the same price just for participation… Nobody fears losers, nobody respect losers and weak men…
Girls are using guys as their emotional tampons; their primitive brain no longer creates any feelings… No feelings no attraction, no attraction no respect... Guys became mostly only a financial support, men with resources – The girl will eventually marry him, true, but she doesn’t really give a damn about him, he just represents financial stability... She knows she can get rid of him anytime she wants, and once she gets rid of him he will still have financially support her, because that is the current law…
Laws created by hundreds of another weak men...
Girls don't respect WEAK men… they tolerate them, they use them as spouses for material convenience, but they don't really care about them... That's why you see so many divorces, so many feminists, so many calls for equality, so many screwed up men, so many flaking and so on...
Today's men are being ridiculed, laughed at, joked about... Look at any TV show, a guy is usually presented as harmless half-brained dummy, unstable and weak, funny and usually clueless, spineless wimp… That is the image today's girl have about men, that is really what you are fighting against...
Most guys don't get it, they don't understand. They can't understand because they grew up in it, they've been brainwashed since the day they were born. Even if they understand it takes couple of years to build new mindset...
Think what you want, today's girls don't respect average guys. They CAN'T respect today's guys because today's guys are weak physically and emotionally, they are labile... They are not dangerous guys - nobody fears them because they are too friendly, too apologetic and too understanding of everything they do... Their weak frame and behavior doesn’t really do anything to female’s primitive hind brain…
Ok, great, you can trick girls with seduction, and good for you if you get laid, but most girls are smart, they catch up fast, and they will eventually see through you anyway because most of seduction is simply BS, think what you want…
Now switch it around. Grow some balls. Grow muscles. Lift heavy, lift on regular basis, couple times a week. Who cares if you lift 250 pounds or 500? Or 700? Nobody really gives a damn. Nobody cares about you, everybody only cares about themselves. Just lift, and then lift more, and more heavier stuff. I said lift, not read about lifting. If you don't like lifting, well, do some martial arts. Fight, stand up against another men. The more men you face directly the bolder you become, the bigger balls you'll have. Or even better, do both lift heavy and fight as well…
It's really about overcoming the laziness and comfort, it's about that struggle you have to go through, it's about the sweat, it's about having some muscles, it's about pumping testosterone through your veins... It’s about stubbornness, determination to accomplish something what most don’t because it is hard and they are lazy… It’s about conviction to win, to survive – you are not born with it, you have to build it…
It's about real mindset you are developing by persistence, not just for couple weeks, but year after year... That is how you develop real and solid mind set, not by reading about it… Lifting is great for such mindset because it is difficult, it hurts, it requires determination and self-discipline, it can be measured by numbers… It increases your testosterone levels, it makes you look stronger and healthier… Honestly, I haven’t figured out better way than lifting…
Once you have that mindset of a winner, you won't really care much about girls, whether they come to your life or if they go... The paradox is, that once you stop caring about girls, what they think about you and what they say, they will also notice - and they will want to be in your life. Compare to average guy who cares about girls - and the more he cares the less pussy he gets...
That is how you remove yourself from default pussified mind frame that was brought upon you by civilization... Once you have that new mind set, no girl will ever disrespect you. They may choose not to sleep with you, and that is fine, but they will never disrespect you.
You will notice that most girls will get wet and anxious just in your presence because they KNOW, they FEEL and they SMELL the man... Many girls will start offering themselves to you, they won't hesitate to dump their pretty face sophisticated partner and go for you. They will want to have you in their lives, they will want you to fuck their brains out. They have little choice, their primitive and animalistic hind brain tells them to do so, they have to fight it very hard to resist…
See? The whole seduction is actually quite simple. Women CRAVE real man, but no longer there are real man around, very very few… Once woman recognizes real man, that is all she really wants… She wants his sperm because her primitive brain tells her that his sperm will produce the strongest offspring possible… She could care less about his smoothness, deep diving, understanding her, pushing and pulling, sexy smiles or walks, pretty face, expensive clothes, nice shoes and hairstyle, his social circle, how fun he is and all the other stuff – all she cares about is just his sperm… She will invite him to her place, she will take her own clothes off for him without him asking, and she will even jump on his cock, should he hesitate to pull it out…
The girls will seduce men that they are attracted to - and not the other way. Men should not be seducing women, men should just be men... That is how it should be, and that is the reason why the whole seduction is just BS. The problem, however, is that we men are too weak by default, therefore the girls don't feel natural attraction towards us... That is why today's men need to use seduction to get laid...
Suffer, struggle, lift, sweat, fight... Stop being too friendly, stop being too understanding, stop being too compliant... Become stubborn SOB, at least for a while... Stop being sophisticated and eloquent fool. Stop following others, rely on yourself only. Move away from your family, move away from your "friends", you don't need them, they are only enforcing your weakness... Chances are they are not your friends anyway, none of them will move finger to help you... And stop smiling like a fool, at least for some time. Suffer now, you’ll smile later... Become man again, find that raw animal power in you and grab it by balls... Become man that others fear and don't like, perhaps some even hate… That is how you become dangerous again, that is how you win, that is what real attraction means… Some girls may never admit it, they perhaps even hate it, but you can bet that they will become wet and horny in your mere presence... They can't help it, it is their million-year old hind brain that is just feeling the raw male power reflexively, it makes them submit to you – without you even trying to apply some ‘dominant’ techniques...
We have to try to understand the whole philosophy though, philosophy of what is it being a man. Which is impossible in couple paragraphs, that is a topic for several books… We have to look at different generations, at our fathers, grandfathers, their grand-grand fathers and their lives, and so on. We have to look at whole human history and evolution to understand...
Looking in the past, our predecessors had rather difficult times. Many times they had to fight for survival. They struggled, they suffered, they had to protect their tribe and families, they had to physically and mentally dominate other males and other predators...They had no choice but to win, otherwise they would not survive. If you never heard about evolution, here is a quick summary: Only the strongest (meaning physically and mentally) and fittest (most adaptable) survive in harsh environment...
See, Mother Nature is cruel, she doesn't really give a damn about you or anyone else, she doesn’t care about your feelings and thoughts…. The reality is, that only those who Win in open Nature are allowed to reproduce and have descendants... It’s been like that for half a billion years; it is encoded in our brains, and even better – it is encoded in women’s brains… They can’t change it, they are programmed to open up to winners - and remain closed to losers...
Today, we are the result of evolution, and I am not talking about couple thousands of years, I am talking about some 6 millions years of evolution of humanoids in harsh and cruel environment, in open Nature: We humans (resp. men) are the most dangerous predators that ever lived on this planet. We can put in cages the most dangerous animals, we can kill them with minimal effort in their natural environment... We can destroy the entire planet in couple of minutes, rip it in half, smash it in pieces... We are the most dangerous predators this planet has ever feared...
We men build this civilization with our hands and brains, and as good as it is it also has huge disadvantage: We got too comfortable... We no longer struggle, we no longer have to fight or survive. Instead we sit comfortably on sofa, watch TV, computer or iPhones... We are sipping sodas, getting fat and lazy, we are getting all mellow, all emotional, sensitive, all weak... We are no longer predators – we became pussies…
Instead of suffering and overcoming various obstacles, instead of hunting, surviving and creating great things - we are studying psychology in cozy homes, we are studying feelings and emotions, we are sending smiles over iPhones and analyzing likes or replies on FB... We are reading girly stuff, figuring how and what girls think, trying to understand them, vibe with them... We are trying to figure out various seductive techniques how to "get them"...
All the comfort resulted in (physical and mental) weakness; we brought that weakness upon ourselves. Today’s men are no longer respected. Just look around, every girl is laughing today at what we call "men". Girls reject most guys anytime they want, without any consequences. The guys don’t really win anything anymore, everybody get’s the same price just for participation… Nobody fears losers, nobody respect losers and weak men…
Girls are using guys as their emotional tampons; their primitive brain no longer creates any feelings… No feelings no attraction, no attraction no respect... Guys became mostly only a financial support, men with resources – The girl will eventually marry him, true, but she doesn’t really give a damn about him, he just represents financial stability... She knows she can get rid of him anytime she wants, and once she gets rid of him he will still have financially support her, because that is the current law…
Laws created by hundreds of another weak men...
Girls don't respect WEAK men… they tolerate them, they use them as spouses for material convenience, but they don't really care about them... That's why you see so many divorces, so many feminists, so many calls for equality, so many screwed up men, so many flaking and so on...
Today's men are being ridiculed, laughed at, joked about... Look at any TV show, a guy is usually presented as harmless half-brained dummy, unstable and weak, funny and usually clueless, spineless wimp… That is the image today's girl have about men, that is really what you are fighting against...
Most guys don't get it, they don't understand. They can't understand because they grew up in it, they've been brainwashed since the day they were born. Even if they understand it takes couple of years to build new mindset...
Think what you want, today's girls don't respect average guys. They CAN'T respect today's guys because today's guys are weak physically and emotionally, they are labile... They are not dangerous guys - nobody fears them because they are too friendly, too apologetic and too understanding of everything they do... Their weak frame and behavior doesn’t really do anything to female’s primitive hind brain…
Ok, great, you can trick girls with seduction, and good for you if you get laid, but most girls are smart, they catch up fast, and they will eventually see through you anyway because most of seduction is simply BS, think what you want…
Now switch it around. Grow some balls. Grow muscles. Lift heavy, lift on regular basis, couple times a week. Who cares if you lift 250 pounds or 500? Or 700? Nobody really gives a damn. Nobody cares about you, everybody only cares about themselves. Just lift, and then lift more, and more heavier stuff. I said lift, not read about lifting. If you don't like lifting, well, do some martial arts. Fight, stand up against another men. The more men you face directly the bolder you become, the bigger balls you'll have. Or even better, do both lift heavy and fight as well…
It's really about overcoming the laziness and comfort, it's about that struggle you have to go through, it's about the sweat, it's about having some muscles, it's about pumping testosterone through your veins... It’s about stubbornness, determination to accomplish something what most don’t because it is hard and they are lazy… It’s about conviction to win, to survive – you are not born with it, you have to build it…
It's about real mindset you are developing by persistence, not just for couple weeks, but year after year... That is how you develop real and solid mind set, not by reading about it… Lifting is great for such mindset because it is difficult, it hurts, it requires determination and self-discipline, it can be measured by numbers… It increases your testosterone levels, it makes you look stronger and healthier… Honestly, I haven’t figured out better way than lifting…
Once you have that mindset of a winner, you won't really care much about girls, whether they come to your life or if they go... The paradox is, that once you stop caring about girls, what they think about you and what they say, they will also notice - and they will want to be in your life. Compare to average guy who cares about girls - and the more he cares the less pussy he gets...
That is how you remove yourself from default pussified mind frame that was brought upon you by civilization... Once you have that new mind set, no girl will ever disrespect you. They may choose not to sleep with you, and that is fine, but they will never disrespect you.
You will notice that most girls will get wet and anxious just in your presence because they KNOW, they FEEL and they SMELL the man... Many girls will start offering themselves to you, they won't hesitate to dump their pretty face sophisticated partner and go for you. They will want to have you in their lives, they will want you to fuck their brains out. They have little choice, their primitive and animalistic hind brain tells them to do so, they have to fight it very hard to resist…
See? The whole seduction is actually quite simple. Women CRAVE real man, but no longer there are real man around, very very few… Once woman recognizes real man, that is all she really wants… She wants his sperm because her primitive brain tells her that his sperm will produce the strongest offspring possible… She could care less about his smoothness, deep diving, understanding her, pushing and pulling, sexy smiles or walks, pretty face, expensive clothes, nice shoes and hairstyle, his social circle, how fun he is and all the other stuff – all she cares about is just his sperm… She will invite him to her place, she will take her own clothes off for him without him asking, and she will even jump on his cock, should he hesitate to pull it out…
The girls will seduce men that they are attracted to - and not the other way. Men should not be seducing women, men should just be men... That is how it should be, and that is the reason why the whole seduction is just BS. The problem, however, is that we men are too weak by default, therefore the girls don't feel natural attraction towards us... That is why today's men need to use seduction to get laid...
Suffer, struggle, lift, sweat, fight... Stop being too friendly, stop being too understanding, stop being too compliant... Become stubborn SOB, at least for a while... Stop being sophisticated and eloquent fool. Stop following others, rely on yourself only. Move away from your family, move away from your "friends", you don't need them, they are only enforcing your weakness... Chances are they are not your friends anyway, none of them will move finger to help you... And stop smiling like a fool, at least for some time. Suffer now, you’ll smile later... Become man again, find that raw animal power in you and grab it by balls... Become man that others fear and don't like, perhaps some even hate… That is how you become dangerous again, that is how you win, that is what real attraction means… Some girls may never admit it, they perhaps even hate it, but you can bet that they will become wet and horny in your mere presence... They can't help it, it is their million-year old hind brain that is just feeling the raw male power reflexively, it makes them submit to you – without you even trying to apply some ‘dominant’ techniques...
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2013
- Messages
- 1,819
Drck,
The more I read from you the more I'm convinced that the GirlsChase boards just aren't for you.
I never see you actually give advice or respond intelligently to a post; you say the same thing over and over again and it always goes back to some anecdote about "men today vs. men of the past" or "How to be Alpha" and I'm also convinced that you don't have much (if any) real world experience with seduction or socializing. Ordinarily, I wouldn't care but there's someone asking a legitimate question and I fail to see how you've answered it in any meaningful way at all.
Also, I get the strong feeling that you push these ideas so hard because you want them to work out in your life; if you can just deadlift 250 lbs then bitches will swoon all over you but it doesn't work that way, as much as you want it to. This lends itself to me feeling like you have little-to-no real world experience.
Deg,
Can you give any concrete examples on being challenged, or on "frame battles" that you feel you've lost or that you're confused about? Your ability to utilize frame control comes from being in the ring with people who use it all the time (like women
) and then you get accustomed to them. If you have any examples from your life that you feel stand out then we can, maybe, get the ball rolling.
-Richard
The more I read from you the more I'm convinced that the GirlsChase boards just aren't for you.
I never see you actually give advice or respond intelligently to a post; you say the same thing over and over again and it always goes back to some anecdote about "men today vs. men of the past" or "How to be Alpha" and I'm also convinced that you don't have much (if any) real world experience with seduction or socializing. Ordinarily, I wouldn't care but there's someone asking a legitimate question and I fail to see how you've answered it in any meaningful way at all.
Also, I get the strong feeling that you push these ideas so hard because you want them to work out in your life; if you can just deadlift 250 lbs then bitches will swoon all over you but it doesn't work that way, as much as you want it to. This lends itself to me feeling like you have little-to-no real world experience.
Deg,
Can you give any concrete examples on being challenged, or on "frame battles" that you feel you've lost or that you're confused about? Your ability to utilize frame control comes from being in the ring with people who use it all the time (like women
) and then you get accustomed to them. If you have any examples from your life that you feel stand out then we can, maybe, get the ball rolling. -Richard
IMO my ideas are great and they also work great, you just have to try to understand. There has been huge shift in society, today's men are no longer men and there is a reason for that.
You can verify it on many different level, it is not just my impression. Check testosterone levels of average younger guys today, they are way low. Testosterone is male hormon, that is what makes you men.
Compare different generations of guys, how they behave - 60 years old, 40 years old, 20 years old... You will see huge differences. Again, that is not just my impression, talk to many people in their 40's and 50's, ask them yourself, ask them what they think about today's young generation. See older movies from 60's, compare it to today. The young generation is weak, spoiled, entitled, and again, there is a reason for that. Is not really their fault, it's because they are - wrongly - led to poor lifestyle choices by society... victim mentality, weakness, equality crap, consumerism, safe spaces because of hurt feelings, you name it. Add to it poor education, easy access to drugs and porn, obesity levels due to poor gist, and you'll get the picture... No sane girls can respect that, no one can respect that....
Look closely at life of great athletes, Arnold, Tyson, look at Olympic Games. It's virtually a fuck fest, they can't supply them enough condoms. Great bodies, great performance, lots of testosterone and adrenaline, lots of competition, lots of winning - and lots of fucking. They train hard, they run fast, they sweat, they lift heavy stuff, they perform, they are focused and determined, they are great at what they are doing. You don't have to become a champion to get laid, but that mind set is great, that adrenaline and testosterone pumping is great, that real winner attitude (even at just local level) is great.
Or closely at examples from your own life. I don't know if you know any guys who are good at sport. I knew several in my late teens, and I'll tell you, some got under their belt over 20 girls before they hit their 20th birthday, and that is with ZERO seduction skills, believe it or not. I didn't understand it before, but I do now, the answer lies right before your eyes...
And that is what I'm talking about, prove me wrong. You can't prove me wrong because it is working great, you can only believe that it is not working if you are not doing that. I talk about it because nobody else does, if you guys don't like it or can't handle different ideas, ban me than, see how much I care.
You can verify it on many different level, it is not just my impression. Check testosterone levels of average younger guys today, they are way low. Testosterone is male hormon, that is what makes you men.
Compare different generations of guys, how they behave - 60 years old, 40 years old, 20 years old... You will see huge differences. Again, that is not just my impression, talk to many people in their 40's and 50's, ask them yourself, ask them what they think about today's young generation. See older movies from 60's, compare it to today. The young generation is weak, spoiled, entitled, and again, there is a reason for that. Is not really their fault, it's because they are - wrongly - led to poor lifestyle choices by society... victim mentality, weakness, equality crap, consumerism, safe spaces because of hurt feelings, you name it. Add to it poor education, easy access to drugs and porn, obesity levels due to poor gist, and you'll get the picture... No sane girls can respect that, no one can respect that....
Look closely at life of great athletes, Arnold, Tyson, look at Olympic Games. It's virtually a fuck fest, they can't supply them enough condoms. Great bodies, great performance, lots of testosterone and adrenaline, lots of competition, lots of winning - and lots of fucking. They train hard, they run fast, they sweat, they lift heavy stuff, they perform, they are focused and determined, they are great at what they are doing. You don't have to become a champion to get laid, but that mind set is great, that adrenaline and testosterone pumping is great, that real winner attitude (even at just local level) is great.
Or closely at examples from your own life. I don't know if you know any guys who are good at sport. I knew several in my late teens, and I'll tell you, some got under their belt over 20 girls before they hit their 20th birthday, and that is with ZERO seduction skills, believe it or not. I didn't understand it before, but I do now, the answer lies right before your eyes...
And that is what I'm talking about, prove me wrong. You can't prove me wrong because it is working great, you can only believe that it is not working if you are not doing that. I talk about it because nobody else does, if you guys don't like it or can't handle different ideas, ban me than, see how much I care.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2013
- Messages
- 1,819
Drck,
You're taking something that's a correlation and making it causation and that's what is bothering me.
It's not like the rest of us aren't aware of the things you're saying; anybody who's Rank 3 and above would be an idiot to say otherwise, but there is a reason that Chase, Franco, the writers, etc. don't focus on what you're talking about, did you ever think about that? You're emphasizing something that's just a small part of seduction. Also, it seems like you're assuming that anything regarding "seduction" is something you had to learn; hence the "ZERO seduction skills" portion. Great athletes tend to also be naturals with seduction, as well, in case you didn't know that.
Again, it's a correlation; you grandeurize an idea so much and fail to see ALL the reasons of why and how seduction works.
Last bit to note; there's also a correlation between muscle size and ego-sensitivity because most guys who lift and get big tend to also be the most clingy with their girlfriends and suffer the biggest hits when their girlfriends leave/cheat/etc; the biggest mate-guarders are the guys with too much testosterone. Yes, they typically have higher partner counts because of that testosterone but they also suffer the most ego kickback and tend to be the clingiest with whoever they're seeing or fucking.
Anyway, the point is; even if you're good or great at something, it only helps you initially with a woman but does not help you to get laid, it only makes it easier for you at the offset but there are still seduction skills and social skills you need to seal the deal, and you seem to largely ignore that.
You're taking something that's a correlation and making it causation and that's what is bothering me.
It's not like the rest of us aren't aware of the things you're saying; anybody who's Rank 3 and above would be an idiot to say otherwise, but there is a reason that Chase, Franco, the writers, etc. don't focus on what you're talking about, did you ever think about that? You're emphasizing something that's just a small part of seduction. Also, it seems like you're assuming that anything regarding "seduction" is something you had to learn; hence the "ZERO seduction skills" portion. Great athletes tend to also be naturals with seduction, as well, in case you didn't know that.
Again, it's a correlation; you grandeurize an idea so much and fail to see ALL the reasons of why and how seduction works.
Last bit to note; there's also a correlation between muscle size and ego-sensitivity because most guys who lift and get big tend to also be the most clingy with their girlfriends and suffer the biggest hits when their girlfriends leave/cheat/etc; the biggest mate-guarders are the guys with too much testosterone. Yes, they typically have higher partner counts because of that testosterone but they also suffer the most ego kickback and tend to be the clingiest with whoever they're seeing or fucking.
Anyway, the point is; even if you're good or great at something, it only helps you initially with a woman but does not help you to get laid, it only makes it easier for you at the offset but there are still seduction skills and social skills you need to seal the deal, and you seem to largely ignore that.
"Great athletes tend to also be naturals with seduction, as well, in case you didn't know that"
>>>> I agree with you here, but have you actually thought about this sentence and if so: why is it that way? Why are athletes rather naturals with seduction? What does it mean "natural" at first place...? And if you (or any guy) becomes athlete, will he also be more natural as you say?
When you look at animal kingdom - and we are part of it - what does it mean natural seduction? Do you see other animals practicing seduction? As above, in animal kingdom those who are fit the best for the environment, which many times comes down to muscles, strength and brains (athletes), are usually the winners. And that is what I am talking about, about the natural way... In other words, the stronger and smarter you become in today's terms, the more will seduction become natural to you. You even get to the point where you stop seducing women, because they will be seducing you - and that is how it should be...
--------------
I'm talking about having the right mind frame, natural confidence and natural dominance. These can be developed: you develop not only muscles and great physique but also excellent mind frame based on determination to achieve something, desire to win and conquer, having clear goal, persistence and so forth. You cannot fake being athlete - you have to run, lift, fight, practice over and over, you have to have desire to win...
These can be achieved as described, you just can't go wrong with weight lifting and/or martial arts because you are not only developing healthy body but also great mind set, including great winner attitude...
You simply can't have the right winner attitude - unless you really win something that is important to you, something that you worked hard for, something that you competed against another men, if that makes sense...
You can't have true winner attitude till you experience it. It is emotional experience, not rational one. You can't fake it. You experience it and you remember it for years, you remember it as it was yesterday because it is burnt into your memory. It feels great, and you want to repeat it because each time you think about it it makes adrenalin rush through your veins again... You want to win again, and then again. That is true winner attitude...
...and that goes way far beyond being just muscular egoistic meathead....
---------------
See it this way, there is a huge difference between perceptions of these two guys:
Guy A is physically weak, shy and insecure, who lives with his parents and doesn't have a job yet because is busy with video games. He needs safe space in college because everyone who looks at him without a smile is insulting him, hurting his feelings. He is rather fat because he doesn't take care of himself and consumes poor diet. This guy believes that completion is wrong, he is spoiled since childhood, mom always gets him what he wants, and he relies on everybody else. He is sensitive, touchy feely guy...
Guy B is the same age but pulls 300-400 pounds off the floor (which BTW is not that much), he is muscular and solid, he doesn't cave in when others insult him. He lives on his own and has to work because nobody else supports him, who feels great because he has won again some local competition and is already excited about the next one. He competes against other men, sometimes he loses, true, but other times he wins... The victories are great though because he worked hard for it, he knows that he deserves it...
... See, Guy B is more ‘natural’ because he displays lots of attractive traits. Therefore girls go after him, they show great interest in him, he feels more accepted - and that gives him even more confidence... When girls show interest in you, when you FEEL that they like you and want to submit to you - it is very easy to be comfortable around girls, and it is very easy to move things forward… That all totally naturally…
Guy B has clear winner attitude because he is simply a winner and he feels great about it, and about himself. He achieved what most men didn't. Have you ever seen a man that won or achieved something? UFC? Boxing? A medal in other sport? That is how it feels, those are real feelings, real attitudes, real victories... Look at pictures of Arnold or Tyson, those are real champions everybody can relate to, those are real winner attitudes these guys project...
If Tyson stands up against a guy and look in his eyes from distance of one foot, most guys couldn't even stand that look. Perhaps many would even collapse; very few would even accept fight. I'll be honest, I'm not sure if I would accept fight either, because he is a real animal, there is no question that I would ended up on the floor. I would fight for couple hundred thousand though, say at least half a mil after taxes would do it LOL
But that's what I'm talking about, about that real animalistic male power, real dominance, real winner attitude... You can literally feel it, but you can't fake it... On the other hand, if Guy A looks into somebody's eyes, nobody cares because he can't even keep looking in other men's eyes, never mind girl's eyes... He is weak, there is no power coming out of his eyes... There is no tingling... He doesn’t have the feeling that girls like him, which keeps his confidence at low levels, he is afraid to do things because no matter what he does, he is being rejected…
Guy B doesn't have to be Tyson but he is winning real things, not imaginary. He is lifting real 400 pounds, not just pretending physical dominance by taking up more space. If a girl is in his vicinity, she already feels dominated because he dominates her - totally naturally - with his physical strength, with solid mental attitude, and with real winner effect...
The solid mind frame is already there because it takes time, effort, determination, focus, skills and sweat to get to decent level.... The solid mind frame is literally visible in muscular form, and it can be smelled (testosterone, adrenaline) in sweat as well... You don't really have to 'dominate' her any more, that is nonsense... you can even relax - and let her lead... As a matter of fact, many women today prefer to LEAD this kind of guy, because that is how they feel that they are at least somehow in power...
Now, why is the girl dominated, rather naturally? Because she can't accomplish most of these things. Logically, while using her neocortex, she doesn’t care about these things. She will even deny desire to be dominated. But emotionally, in her 6 million year old brain she feels it. She can't lift heavy weights, she can't really fight, she is physically weak... She doesn't really have much determination, and her mind is constantly changing into different emotions and moods. She can't really survive on her own in harsh environment, she (resp. her 6 mil year old brain) needs a strong guy who protects her... Again, neocortex will deny it, but she can’t overwrite the desires of old brain…
She can probably beat the crap out of Guy A physically, she can abuse him mentally, and he would still apologize to her because he feels bad. That is how weak guys are these days. But she will never even try with Guy B. That is a huge difference in girl’s attitude towards both of these guys...
That's what I'm talking about. Imagine a girl that is standing next to Guy A and Guy B. Who is she attracted to? It's really no brainer. She doesn't care about Guy A, she has no feelings at all, no tingling. She may chat with him for hours, she may spent lots of time with him because he comforts her, maybe he makes her laugh, she may enjoy company of his many friends - but she doesn't really care about sleeping with him, he doesn't make her tingle... Ok, I'll give it to you, she will sleep with him eventually, but at the same time she will be on constant look for Guy B... Her old brain is constantly looking and scanning environment for Guy B...
So she meets Guy B and she already feels the tension. She gets wet, excited. All Guy B has to do is not to sabotage himself, which means to remain laid back, accept her invitation/window when she offers, and start pushing for sex at the right time... He has already seduced her - naturally, there is really not much else to do... He doesn't really have to be dominant - because he already is. He doesn't have to appear sexy, because he already is - with his body, adrenalin, muscles, attitude.... He doesn't really have to set up any frames, because he already has great winner frame - he will win again, regardless whether she joins him or not... She cannot shake him emotionally; she cannot change his mind in any way...
................
I don't know if you've ever experienced it, but the Guy B doesn't really have to do much to seduce the girl. He just have to be there (meaning he can't sit home alone and play games), show that he is interested in the girl, throw some jokes around here and there and perhaps smile on occasions to show that he is a cool guy comfortable in his skin... and the girls will start seduce him because they want his sperm.... They will invite him to their place; they will even initiate sex...
How else can I explain it? I can't explain how it feels to lift 400 pounds in any words; you have to lift it yourself... I can’t explain how it feels to stand up against another well trained and strong man, and win. The victory will resonate in your mind for many years, you will be replaying it over and over... I can't explain that girls, including the hottest ones you've ever met, will want to seduce you, you have to experience it yourself...
No, no, you don't really need much to get the girl, if you are physically strong and have solid mindset as described, if you want sex and are exposed to more girls - they will start seducing you, not the other way...
Good Enough. Become winner. Lift weights. Fight. Become dangerous man. Do simple yet manly things, master some weapons, drive fast cars. Get a good job with good fucking income, that also feels great. And stop giving so much damn about pussies. Don't move finger for them, even ignore them. Erase their phone number, who cares. Then observe how your life will change, allow girls to seduce you - if they invite you, simply go... I'M NOT DISCUSSING OR ARGUING IT WITH YOU, I AM TELLING YOU... that all for free...
>>>> I agree with you here, but have you actually thought about this sentence and if so: why is it that way? Why are athletes rather naturals with seduction? What does it mean "natural" at first place...? And if you (or any guy) becomes athlete, will he also be more natural as you say?
When you look at animal kingdom - and we are part of it - what does it mean natural seduction? Do you see other animals practicing seduction? As above, in animal kingdom those who are fit the best for the environment, which many times comes down to muscles, strength and brains (athletes), are usually the winners. And that is what I am talking about, about the natural way... In other words, the stronger and smarter you become in today's terms, the more will seduction become natural to you. You even get to the point where you stop seducing women, because they will be seducing you - and that is how it should be...
--------------
I'm talking about having the right mind frame, natural confidence and natural dominance. These can be developed: you develop not only muscles and great physique but also excellent mind frame based on determination to achieve something, desire to win and conquer, having clear goal, persistence and so forth. You cannot fake being athlete - you have to run, lift, fight, practice over and over, you have to have desire to win...
These can be achieved as described, you just can't go wrong with weight lifting and/or martial arts because you are not only developing healthy body but also great mind set, including great winner attitude...
You simply can't have the right winner attitude - unless you really win something that is important to you, something that you worked hard for, something that you competed against another men, if that makes sense...
You can't have true winner attitude till you experience it. It is emotional experience, not rational one. You can't fake it. You experience it and you remember it for years, you remember it as it was yesterday because it is burnt into your memory. It feels great, and you want to repeat it because each time you think about it it makes adrenalin rush through your veins again... You want to win again, and then again. That is true winner attitude...
...and that goes way far beyond being just muscular egoistic meathead....
---------------
See it this way, there is a huge difference between perceptions of these two guys:
Guy A is physically weak, shy and insecure, who lives with his parents and doesn't have a job yet because is busy with video games. He needs safe space in college because everyone who looks at him without a smile is insulting him, hurting his feelings. He is rather fat because he doesn't take care of himself and consumes poor diet. This guy believes that completion is wrong, he is spoiled since childhood, mom always gets him what he wants, and he relies on everybody else. He is sensitive, touchy feely guy...
Guy B is the same age but pulls 300-400 pounds off the floor (which BTW is not that much), he is muscular and solid, he doesn't cave in when others insult him. He lives on his own and has to work because nobody else supports him, who feels great because he has won again some local competition and is already excited about the next one. He competes against other men, sometimes he loses, true, but other times he wins... The victories are great though because he worked hard for it, he knows that he deserves it...
... See, Guy B is more ‘natural’ because he displays lots of attractive traits. Therefore girls go after him, they show great interest in him, he feels more accepted - and that gives him even more confidence... When girls show interest in you, when you FEEL that they like you and want to submit to you - it is very easy to be comfortable around girls, and it is very easy to move things forward… That all totally naturally…
Guy B has clear winner attitude because he is simply a winner and he feels great about it, and about himself. He achieved what most men didn't. Have you ever seen a man that won or achieved something? UFC? Boxing? A medal in other sport? That is how it feels, those are real feelings, real attitudes, real victories... Look at pictures of Arnold or Tyson, those are real champions everybody can relate to, those are real winner attitudes these guys project...
If Tyson stands up against a guy and look in his eyes from distance of one foot, most guys couldn't even stand that look. Perhaps many would even collapse; very few would even accept fight. I'll be honest, I'm not sure if I would accept fight either, because he is a real animal, there is no question that I would ended up on the floor. I would fight for couple hundred thousand though, say at least half a mil after taxes would do it LOL
But that's what I'm talking about, about that real animalistic male power, real dominance, real winner attitude... You can literally feel it, but you can't fake it... On the other hand, if Guy A looks into somebody's eyes, nobody cares because he can't even keep looking in other men's eyes, never mind girl's eyes... He is weak, there is no power coming out of his eyes... There is no tingling... He doesn’t have the feeling that girls like him, which keeps his confidence at low levels, he is afraid to do things because no matter what he does, he is being rejected…
Guy B doesn't have to be Tyson but he is winning real things, not imaginary. He is lifting real 400 pounds, not just pretending physical dominance by taking up more space. If a girl is in his vicinity, she already feels dominated because he dominates her - totally naturally - with his physical strength, with solid mental attitude, and with real winner effect...
The solid mind frame is already there because it takes time, effort, determination, focus, skills and sweat to get to decent level.... The solid mind frame is literally visible in muscular form, and it can be smelled (testosterone, adrenaline) in sweat as well... You don't really have to 'dominate' her any more, that is nonsense... you can even relax - and let her lead... As a matter of fact, many women today prefer to LEAD this kind of guy, because that is how they feel that they are at least somehow in power...
Now, why is the girl dominated, rather naturally? Because she can't accomplish most of these things. Logically, while using her neocortex, she doesn’t care about these things. She will even deny desire to be dominated. But emotionally, in her 6 million year old brain she feels it. She can't lift heavy weights, she can't really fight, she is physically weak... She doesn't really have much determination, and her mind is constantly changing into different emotions and moods. She can't really survive on her own in harsh environment, she (resp. her 6 mil year old brain) needs a strong guy who protects her... Again, neocortex will deny it, but she can’t overwrite the desires of old brain…
She can probably beat the crap out of Guy A physically, she can abuse him mentally, and he would still apologize to her because he feels bad. That is how weak guys are these days. But she will never even try with Guy B. That is a huge difference in girl’s attitude towards both of these guys...
That's what I'm talking about. Imagine a girl that is standing next to Guy A and Guy B. Who is she attracted to? It's really no brainer. She doesn't care about Guy A, she has no feelings at all, no tingling. She may chat with him for hours, she may spent lots of time with him because he comforts her, maybe he makes her laugh, she may enjoy company of his many friends - but she doesn't really care about sleeping with him, he doesn't make her tingle... Ok, I'll give it to you, she will sleep with him eventually, but at the same time she will be on constant look for Guy B... Her old brain is constantly looking and scanning environment for Guy B...
So she meets Guy B and she already feels the tension. She gets wet, excited. All Guy B has to do is not to sabotage himself, which means to remain laid back, accept her invitation/window when she offers, and start pushing for sex at the right time... He has already seduced her - naturally, there is really not much else to do... He doesn't really have to be dominant - because he already is. He doesn't have to appear sexy, because he already is - with his body, adrenalin, muscles, attitude.... He doesn't really have to set up any frames, because he already has great winner frame - he will win again, regardless whether she joins him or not... She cannot shake him emotionally; she cannot change his mind in any way...
................
I don't know if you've ever experienced it, but the Guy B doesn't really have to do much to seduce the girl. He just have to be there (meaning he can't sit home alone and play games), show that he is interested in the girl, throw some jokes around here and there and perhaps smile on occasions to show that he is a cool guy comfortable in his skin... and the girls will start seduce him because they want his sperm.... They will invite him to their place; they will even initiate sex...
How else can I explain it? I can't explain how it feels to lift 400 pounds in any words; you have to lift it yourself... I can’t explain how it feels to stand up against another well trained and strong man, and win. The victory will resonate in your mind for many years, you will be replaying it over and over... I can't explain that girls, including the hottest ones you've ever met, will want to seduce you, you have to experience it yourself...
No, no, you don't really need much to get the girl, if you are physically strong and have solid mindset as described, if you want sex and are exposed to more girls - they will start seducing you, not the other way...
Good Enough. Become winner. Lift weights. Fight. Become dangerous man. Do simple yet manly things, master some weapons, drive fast cars. Get a good job with good fucking income, that also feels great. And stop giving so much damn about pussies. Don't move finger for them, even ignore them. Erase their phone number, who cares. Then observe how your life will change, allow girls to seduce you - if they invite you, simply go... I'M NOT DISCUSSING OR ARGUING IT WITH YOU, I AM TELLING YOU... that all for free...
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2016
- Messages
- 619
My neighbor didn't lift that much and he pulled 2 new girls this month.
But he's in decent shape, so it helps.
But he's in decent shape, so it helps.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2013
- Messages
- 1,819
Drck,
Just stop, dude. I'm not interested in hearing anything you have to say on this because you fail to see just why it's so stupid because you don't seem to understand how women operate.
Nothing you say affects me; I'm already successful with women, just stop spouting your bullshit to newer guys on the Boards. Also, it's not bullshit in the sense that it doesn't work, it's bullshit in the sense that it isn't nearly as pragmatic as you might think.
Moot points, bro. I think I have yet to see a thread or post from you where you don't talk about an "insecure, shy, scrawny guy" against a "big, tough, alpha guy with the winner effect." You're a one-trick pony, and the trick isn't that good.
-Richard
Just stop, dude. I'm not interested in hearing anything you have to say on this because you fail to see just why it's so stupid because you don't seem to understand how women operate.
Nothing you say affects me; I'm already successful with women, just stop spouting your bullshit to newer guys on the Boards. Also, it's not bullshit in the sense that it doesn't work, it's bullshit in the sense that it isn't nearly as pragmatic as you might think.
Moot points, bro. I think I have yet to see a thread or post from you where you don't talk about an "insecure, shy, scrawny guy" against a "big, tough, alpha guy with the winner effect." You're a one-trick pony, and the trick isn't that good.
-Richard
Richard, Richard, I don't get it. Those examples I gave are real, from real life. If you think it is BS, well, it is BS. For you, not for me. Everything I wrote can be verified, and I believe it because it is working and because I see it every day.
"Understanding women" is rather relative, what does that really mean? At which level? How deep we want to go? And who can judge, based on what - based on getting laid and/or have a GF? Well, that is reality of many guys. I’m not pretending to understand everything, but here is what I know:
I've been around PUA and seduction since some 2008, studied great guys such as Ross Jeffries, David X, Brodski, spent some time on 60 years of challenge and Doc Love... that was before you guys even started with GC. I still read here and there ROK or Heartiste, I am well aware of Red Pill, MGTOW, Solomon Group or blog if it still exist, you name it. The basics are the same everywhere, described in different words by different guys from different backgrounds…
I know what guys go through not just in initial seduction but in LTR, marriages, divorces; I've been almost accused myself from harassment, I've recognized on time that I was being set up by sweet and innocent girl. I know how single women behave, and I also know very well how married women behave behind their clueless husbands backs, again from first hand.
I know that winner effect is working quite well. I started with martial arts in my teens, once you do it for some time and you put lots of energy, dedication and determination into it, you simply become good. You may not be great world champion, and there is no need for that, but you will be better than 90-95% guys out there. You develop natural confidence, you are respected, you love what you do, and that is a great feeling. As a matter of fact, I was able to transform that winner effect to different areas in my life, such as education and great job. I’ve seen many great guys failed at what they wanted, not because they were not good but because they were not persistent. I became good at different areas of my life, and wish the same for everybody else. You have to build it yourself, nobody will give it to you. Here is the summary: Once you are really good at something women get interested in you naturally. That is just a normal side effect, there is no science in it...
Another thing, just because you get laid or have great GF doesn’t really mean that you understand everything. There are other important things that guys should be aware of, for example look at rape accusations at colleges. News titles like "nearly 1 in 6 women raped", "reports of sexual assaults increased by 50%" and so forth are rather alarming.
Or just look at the rising number of single moms. Nothing else is more alarming than personal experience: When you vibe with that cute and sweet girl and think she is really into you - and then you overhear in the background "sexual harassment" or "I'm gonna get pregnant with him and then let him pay for it", that is rather awakening experience...
Another thing is to also understand that the same sweet girl you are having fun with today can turn on you one day. She can mess up your life, take away everything you have and worked hard for, destroy your career or reputation by simple accusation which may not be even true. She can set you up, especially if you are at good position and have $$$. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, look at famous people including Trump, Clinton, Bill Cosby, Tiger Woods, probably Tyson, and who knows how many others. All great and popular guys, all guys with great appetite for dominating women, all drunken by success with women. Those are just famous guys, but who knows how many thousands like that are there that nobody hears about because they are not famous...
No matter what they say, current laws are usually not in favor of guys, she usually wins because she will make everybody feel sorry for her ass - while dumping all the guilt upon the guy's. You can think what you want about yourself and how great seducer you are, but in her eyes you are "just a guy". Cool, great and sexy, understanding - but still just a guy. And as such you are disposable, your sperm is cheap simply because the fact that she has very easy access to many sperm donors and she doesn't really 'need' man today per se; the system will always take care of her, and it is usually the guy who will have to pay. If you can't see it it is you who have no idea, believe what you want...
I’ll throw in one more thing: IMO you guys don't even understand where MGTOW and Red Pill guys are coming from, you have incorrect perception based on "they are just bitter because they are not good with women, they need to improve". That is true for some, but not all. There is way more to it than just believe that girls are cute, sweet and sexy, and you should love them. Many of these can’t be fixed by “being good with women”, that goes far beyond that.
So don't tell me that I don't understand women, that is a cheap shot Richard. My 2 cents
"Understanding women" is rather relative, what does that really mean? At which level? How deep we want to go? And who can judge, based on what - based on getting laid and/or have a GF? Well, that is reality of many guys. I’m not pretending to understand everything, but here is what I know:
I've been around PUA and seduction since some 2008, studied great guys such as Ross Jeffries, David X, Brodski, spent some time on 60 years of challenge and Doc Love... that was before you guys even started with GC. I still read here and there ROK or Heartiste, I am well aware of Red Pill, MGTOW, Solomon Group or blog if it still exist, you name it. The basics are the same everywhere, described in different words by different guys from different backgrounds…
I know what guys go through not just in initial seduction but in LTR, marriages, divorces; I've been almost accused myself from harassment, I've recognized on time that I was being set up by sweet and innocent girl. I know how single women behave, and I also know very well how married women behave behind their clueless husbands backs, again from first hand.
I know that winner effect is working quite well. I started with martial arts in my teens, once you do it for some time and you put lots of energy, dedication and determination into it, you simply become good. You may not be great world champion, and there is no need for that, but you will be better than 90-95% guys out there. You develop natural confidence, you are respected, you love what you do, and that is a great feeling. As a matter of fact, I was able to transform that winner effect to different areas in my life, such as education and great job. I’ve seen many great guys failed at what they wanted, not because they were not good but because they were not persistent. I became good at different areas of my life, and wish the same for everybody else. You have to build it yourself, nobody will give it to you. Here is the summary: Once you are really good at something women get interested in you naturally. That is just a normal side effect, there is no science in it...
Another thing, just because you get laid or have great GF doesn’t really mean that you understand everything. There are other important things that guys should be aware of, for example look at rape accusations at colleges. News titles like "nearly 1 in 6 women raped", "reports of sexual assaults increased by 50%" and so forth are rather alarming.
Or just look at the rising number of single moms. Nothing else is more alarming than personal experience: When you vibe with that cute and sweet girl and think she is really into you - and then you overhear in the background "sexual harassment" or "I'm gonna get pregnant with him and then let him pay for it", that is rather awakening experience...
Another thing is to also understand that the same sweet girl you are having fun with today can turn on you one day. She can mess up your life, take away everything you have and worked hard for, destroy your career or reputation by simple accusation which may not be even true. She can set you up, especially if you are at good position and have $$$. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, look at famous people including Trump, Clinton, Bill Cosby, Tiger Woods, probably Tyson, and who knows how many others. All great and popular guys, all guys with great appetite for dominating women, all drunken by success with women. Those are just famous guys, but who knows how many thousands like that are there that nobody hears about because they are not famous...
No matter what they say, current laws are usually not in favor of guys, she usually wins because she will make everybody feel sorry for her ass - while dumping all the guilt upon the guy's. You can think what you want about yourself and how great seducer you are, but in her eyes you are "just a guy". Cool, great and sexy, understanding - but still just a guy. And as such you are disposable, your sperm is cheap simply because the fact that she has very easy access to many sperm donors and she doesn't really 'need' man today per se; the system will always take care of her, and it is usually the guy who will have to pay. If you can't see it it is you who have no idea, believe what you want...
I’ll throw in one more thing: IMO you guys don't even understand where MGTOW and Red Pill guys are coming from, you have incorrect perception based on "they are just bitter because they are not good with women, they need to improve". That is true for some, but not all. There is way more to it than just believe that girls are cute, sweet and sexy, and you should love them. Many of these can’t be fixed by “being good with women”, that goes far beyond that.
So don't tell me that I don't understand women, that is a cheap shot Richard. My 2 cents
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2017
- Messages
- 16
Awesome post Drck. Couldn't agree more.Drck said:
My boxing teacher is the spitting image of Daniel Craig. I just ran into him in the grocery store and his gaze is so penetrating, I have to swallow and consciously straighten up to make myself say hello and not just melt into a puddle on the floor. I cannot even begin to imagine what effect he has on women.
Here's another guy we'd do well to imitate:
Richard, Thank you I have plenty of examples haha. For example, I gave this girl I am seeing a command to hand me something and shes like no say please first, and then I am at a loss of words right there as an example. I wasn't able to think on my feet to " find a way to win" as Chase would say. This is the skill I am interested in finding those ways to win to become dominant. Chase provided a few examples of standing ground like the boss who tells you to stay longer after work and you say hey i gotta go home but is there any way to work from home or i can be here early. He said to win atleast partially on your terms and I am not used to getting there. I am not used to finding ways to win either as a competition or in terms of value or investment. So, I am curious how to build that skill "finding a way to win", and I even need help identifiying what I want and not feeling guilty and immediately unconsciously dismissing my own needs.
Drck, I do workout haha. I have been working out(hard compound lifts) for years now and I love it. I know that feeling you are talking about after working out where you feel unstoppable, but It doesnt last for me. A few hours later or the next day the feeling is all gone. I grew up a very timid, shy guy and for several years now I have been reading this site, all of the red pill sites, no mr. nice guy, david deida etc. Its a hard process actually becoming one of those men from ancient times who went through hard times and became hard men. I am still workinng on that and I want to learn Dominance as a skill. So , i am looking for some steps, or tips, or a guide to getting what I want(being dominant).
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Drck, I do workout haha. I have been working out(hard compound lifts) for years now and I love it. I know that feeling you are talking about after working out where you feel unstoppable, but It doesnt last for me. A few hours later or the next day the feeling is all gone. I grew up a very timid, shy guy and for several years now I have been reading this site, all of the red pill sites, no mr. nice guy, david deida etc. Its a hard process actually becoming one of those men from ancient times who went through hard times and became hard men. I am still workinng on that and I want to learn Dominance as a skill. So , i am looking for some steps, or tips, or a guide to getting what I want(being dominant).
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one other point. With this winning, I realize that holding your ground means not letting up at all , but sometimes if I do this with girls or friends I worry this will be too hard a push or I will be too rigid. I was wondering if there was a finesse way of winning in like a socially calibrated way or atleast a way with minimal effort where the other people know I am being serious without me actually getting serious?
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Deg,
As I said before - think about winning in terms of value exchange and investment. The way to handle "frames" (which is basically what you're referring to) is to figure out the implicit nature of the frame and respond back.
If your boss says "I want you to stay late to finish these papers" then the message I'm receiving is "These papers are very important and need to be given priority" <-- That's what your boss wants so, the next question becomes "How do we both come out on top because I don't want to stay late, etc." and you throw back "I recognize these papers are important, I can take them home and get them done later tonight, or come in early."
So, you have to figure out what they're thinking beneath the frame they're throwing at you and respond to that.
If you're giving a girl a simple command like "Pass me a fork" and she says "No, say please first" then you're doing something wrong WWAAAYYY before that point ever comes. Think about what's going on beneath the surface for a girl to even feel like she can say that to you - especially over something so small. So, that's a lot harder to come up with something on the fly because it feels like there's already a lot stacked against you at that point, unless, of course she's teasing you... but that would be pretty obvious.
Also, this is why I said you want to make it a win-win for everybody so long as you're not doing anything unnecessary or extra - with friends, girlfriends, bosses, etc. so long as that person feels they're getting something out of it then they won't see you as rigid or anything like that.
Anyway, remember to analyze what the person is thinking/wanting/expecting/assuming beneath their words and then respond. So, how would you respond to the following?
- "Hey Deg, you should buy me a drink." (Assuming I'm somebody you respect, in this case)
- "Hey bro, buy me a drink." (Assuming I'm somebody you don't care much about)
- "I'm not doing so well in this class, can I copy off your test?" (chick in class)
-Richard
As I said before - think about winning in terms of value exchange and investment. The way to handle "frames" (which is basically what you're referring to) is to figure out the implicit nature of the frame and respond back.
If your boss says "I want you to stay late to finish these papers" then the message I'm receiving is "These papers are very important and need to be given priority" <-- That's what your boss wants so, the next question becomes "How do we both come out on top because I don't want to stay late, etc." and you throw back "I recognize these papers are important, I can take them home and get them done later tonight, or come in early."
So, you have to figure out what they're thinking beneath the frame they're throwing at you and respond to that.
If you're giving a girl a simple command like "Pass me a fork" and she says "No, say please first" then you're doing something wrong WWAAAYYY before that point ever comes. Think about what's going on beneath the surface for a girl to even feel like she can say that to you - especially over something so small. So, that's a lot harder to come up with something on the fly because it feels like there's already a lot stacked against you at that point, unless, of course she's teasing you... but that would be pretty obvious.
Also, this is why I said you want to make it a win-win for everybody so long as you're not doing anything unnecessary or extra - with friends, girlfriends, bosses, etc. so long as that person feels they're getting something out of it then they won't see you as rigid or anything like that.
Anyway, remember to analyze what the person is thinking/wanting/expecting/assuming beneath their words and then respond. So, how would you respond to the following?
- "Hey Deg, you should buy me a drink." (Assuming I'm somebody you respect, in this case)
- "Hey bro, buy me a drink." (Assuming I'm somebody you don't care much about)
- "I'm not doing so well in this class, can I copy off your test?" (chick in class)
-Richard
Ok this is genius thank you. Let me try this
So for the first one. If it is some I respect asking for a drink. Behind the frame he is thinking he can get some value out of me but I respect him so I want value from him. So would I say " haha sure but you get the next round"??
For the second one. The guy is trying to also get value and investment from me and wants to score a free drink but I also don't care as much for him , so would I say " haha you buy me one first , I'll get the next round"?
For the third one with the girl she is thinking about getting value from me very easily without putting in the work so she wants me hand her the material without working she is saying she doesn't care much for the work but that I do so can she have my work for free. So I would say " haha I don't know what will be going on during the test but how about you come over tomorrow instead and I'll tutor you ?
Let me know how I did and how to improve Richard . Thank you for taking the time for quizzing me haha
So for the first one. If it is some I respect asking for a drink. Behind the frame he is thinking he can get some value out of me but I respect him so I want value from him. So would I say " haha sure but you get the next round"??
For the second one. The guy is trying to also get value and investment from me and wants to score a free drink but I also don't care as much for him , so would I say " haha you buy me one first , I'll get the next round"?
For the third one with the girl she is thinking about getting value from me very easily without putting in the work so she wants me hand her the material without working she is saying she doesn't care much for the work but that I do so can she have my work for free. So I would say " haha I don't know what will be going on during the test but how about you come over tomorrow instead and I'll tutor you
?Let me know how I did and how to improve Richard . Thank you for taking the time for quizzing me haha
Richard said:
Thought I'd try answer this too maybe learn something.
First one. "I'll get this one, you can get the next one. What would you like?" Or is that too rigid telling them to get the next one?
Second one "I'm a little low on money at the moment, maybe another time"
Third one "No. If you end up being a doctor with no clue you'll hurt someone" Is that the ethical answer and/or the correct frame answer? This is assuming the test was happening in class right now, not sometime in future like Deg context.
If it was in future similar to what Deg said "I dunno about copying off me, but we could study together and I could teach you some things". Unsure if this is a good way to 'get a girl' because... even if you slept together during study... does she really like you or just wanted study help? I mean is their long term potential in that context, or more just a hookup for a favour?
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Rain said:
I'd definitely rethink this one, that to me seems like a very negative answer to me, you don't want to tear the people around you down, even if what you are saying is true.
I'd probably go with something over the top self-deprecating "I don't know if you want to do that, I got the kidney confused with the spleen on the last one"
Or "Well this is awkward, I was just about to ask you for advice. Which organ is the one that pumps blood around again?"
Regarding your second question, if you end up sleeping with her during study I think thats a pretty good sign. But my concern would be that its a bad frame for sleeping with someone. I wasn't good enough with girls back in college to have good practical knowledge on this, but it instinctively feels bad to me. You're framing your interaction around something concrete and practical and platonic that she wants rather than something romantic and sexy. At best you are putting yourself in provider territory, and if you're a really good tutor then a girl might be concerned that sleeping with you is going to potentially ruin that.
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Good answers, and Rain you already got some solid feedback.
But, those are easy - surface level stuff and fairly obvious implications. So, what about when things become more nuanced?
Something I had to learn to do because I'm a natural problem solver and would frequently end up becoming a problem-solver for others - my value was helping them with their shit but, I reached a place where that had started to drain me and I wasn't getting anything out of the situations where I was a "problem-solver" for women.
So, let's say that a girl is fairly attracted to you but she doesn't put time aside to spend with you; you know she's around some other men but she keeps texting you and calls you once in a while (semi-daily) - how do you find the win-win in that situation? What does she want and what do you want and how do you present it?
-Richard
But, those are easy - surface level stuff and fairly obvious implications. So, what about when things become more nuanced?
Something I had to learn to do because I'm a natural problem solver and would frequently end up becoming a problem-solver for others - my value was helping them with their shit but, I reached a place where that had started to drain me and I wasn't getting anything out of the situations where I was a "problem-solver" for women.
So, let's say that a girl is fairly attracted to you but she doesn't put time aside to spend with you; you know she's around some other men but she keeps texting you and calls you once in a while (semi-daily) - how do you find the win-win in that situation? What does she want and what do you want and how do you present it?
-Richard