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Enjoying Approaches VS Plowing Through Them as a Necessary Evil

Gibson

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Nov 18, 2019
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25
I first started cold approaching back in 2018, which almost seems like a lifetime ago at this point. I took a long break between 2021 and just about a week ago I started approaching again.

The issue is, I think I never actually truly got over approach anxiety, even in those 3 years between 2018 and 2021 with consistent approaching. I just learned to deal with it. Now that I'm approaching again, I can fairly reliably fight through my approach anxiety, but it's still a fight, it's still something I have to consciously push myself to do, and I'm never 100% relaxed.

The way I noticed this is kinda interesting, I was working the other day (I work from home) and planning to go out and do some day game when I finish work. By the time I finished, it had started to rain heavily, so I couldn't go out and approach - and I noticed I felt happy and relieved it was raining and I had an "excuse" to not go out and approach.

I'm naturally introverted, I guess a lot of people here are, and I'm not a very sociable person. It's not just a girl thing, even with friends or family, I very often spend a week or two without actually talking to literally anyone (and I don't have to since I work online). This is not to say I haven't learned social skills through learning game, because I have, I just see it merely as a means to end. If I had my way, I wouldn't talk to girls at all prior to bedding them, but obviously I know it doesn't work like that.

Still, even though I know how to talk to girls, I don't enjoy it, and approaching and chatting girls up (especially in that initial approach where it's up to you to keep the conversation going most of the time) is a mundane chore on a good day, and a fight where I literally force myself to approach on a bad day. This is why, when I go out and approach, it usually ends up being 3-4 approaches in one outing, because I feel my "social batteries" are so drained I just want to not talk to anyone else for the rest of the day.

How have you guys worked this through? And is there a way to go about approaching where you actually enjoy approaching instead of forcing yourself to do it?
 

Karea Ricardus D.

Tribal Elder
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Messages
652
Relatable... very relatable lol. To me what flips the switch to where it's fun and I literally can't get enough of it is when I hit state, especially after a nice success.
 

Higher

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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337
@Gibson -

I never got rid of that feeling. I always have to push myself somehow -- and I've been doing this for 2-3 years.

However it's usually not a big deal. I know that yes, I'll pass on a few chances, but then I see that one girl and I know I'm gonna enjoy the conversation, even if she ultimately rejects me. This confidence comes from the "winner effect" @Karea Ricardus D. mentioned (due to all the positive responses I had so far) and from having something else in my life that I care for (which also contributes to the winner effect).

The switch from direct to indirect+direct helped a lot too -- so basically opening informational and then transitioning to a compliment.

The reason this works great for me is that it puts less pressure on me and I can actually convey my personality before stating my intent. I feel like a tourist looking to have a good time, and she just happens to be at the right place and right time. At that point, the convo becomes the only goal in that moment. I feel present and I truly enjoy it. Everything else afterwards flows naturally. Even rejections.

Ciao,
-En
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake

Gibson

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
25
@Gibson -



The switch from direct to indirect+direct helped a lot too -- so basically opening informational and then transitioning to a compliment.

The reason this works great for me is that it puts less pressure on me and I can actually convey my personality before stating my intent. I feel like a tourist looking to have a good time, and she just happens to be at the right place and right time. At that point, the convo becomes the only goal in that moment. I feel present and I truly enjoy it. Everything else afterwards flows naturally. Even rejections.

Ciao,
-En
How do you actually use the indirect+direct approach? I tried it, but it always felt incongruent, personally I actually find it easier to approach direct, most often complimenting them on their style or something they're wearing. When you do indirect+direct, do you actually tell her immediately after that you actually approached her that you did it because you find something about her attractive, or is it more like "Hey, do you know where XYZ is? Oh btw, I really like that ABC on you"?
 

Gibson

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
25
Relatable... very relatable lol. To me what flips the switch to where it's fun and I literally can't get enough of it is when I hit state, especially after a nice success.
Yeah it happens to me too (the state), but there's still 2 issues with it.

1. Even when I hit state, it makes approaching easy, but not actually enjoyable. It goes from "having to go to the dentist to get your tooth pulled out" to "brushing your teeth". The latter is of course much easier, but still not very fun.

2. Relying on it is obviously inconsistent, it becomes a crutch.
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
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Oct 9, 2012
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6,258
@Gibson,

There's a lot you can do to avoid the impact of state, but when it comes to actual questions of state, then state is unavoidable, yeah.

"I feel social and I'm excited to make some pleasurable approaches" is an emotional state. It is a feeling.

Sometimes you will have that feeling ("being in-state") and sometimes you will not have that feeling ("being out-of-state").

You can approach regardless of state. But when you are not in a state where approaching is something fun, you will be approaching in a state where it is not something fun.

Anyway, as far as an actual pleasurable approaching state... that is going to tend to be very reliant on your aim in approaching.

For example:

  1. In-state, "approaching to initiate conversations" goal: approaching will be easy, but not pleasurable.
  2. In-state, "approaching to share good vibes" goal: approaching will be both easy AND pleasurable.

To exemplify that latter:

Imagine you are in-state / on high momentum, and you see a pretty girl in an elegant sundress. She's smiling and seems to be in a great mood. As soon as you lay eyes on this girl you just want to make her good mood even better. You can open with any of:

  • Genuine interest: pay her a sincere compliment on her choice in dress and excellent aesthetic sense.
  • Situationally relevant: mention to her that she seems to be in a great mood and comment on how wonderful the surroundings are.
  • Playful/nonverbal: get near her, give her a nudge, and beam a million megawatt smile back at her. Then open.

... or anything else. Your actual GOAL is not "approach to open" but "approach to spread good vibes."

Even if she doesn't hook, you are still having a great time because you KNOW you spread some great vibes to her.

You can work a room like this, just spreading great vibes, having a blast, and then at some point a girl hooks hard and the whole thing was both easy and fun.

BUT... you have to have the right internal goal there, of "spread good vibes" (or something else that is actually pleasurable to you; sharing positive things you have to share with others, like good vibes, is a pleasurable thing), for it to actually be fun.

There are other fun goals you can have too:

  • "Let me see what the CRAZIEST thing I can do to open girls with and still get away with is" where you just try insane different things with girls to see if they'll open. This isn't one to do all the time but if the mood strikes it can be really fun.

  • "I'm going to aim to meet a whole bunch of people, then merge groups and introduce them to each other and see what happens" can be LOADS of fun because, again, it can be experimental and chaotic... if you introduce two groups of girls to each other are they going to compete over you? Will they both auto-reject and hate you? Will they become fast friends and totally ignore you? Introduce them and find out!

  • "I'm going to open girls imagining I am [insert XYZ actor or celebrity or whatnot] and see how they react to him"

Etc.

If you are sharing something (like good vibes) or making a game of it, and you are also in a very social state / on high momentum, it can become very, very fun.

BUT... you cannot get there without state, and without the right mental object.

Because we're talking about the emotions you feel.

You can't feel emotions without feeling emotions, and the emotions you feel are going to be dependent on what you hope to accomplish when you're feeling them, too.

Chase
 

Gladiator

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Apr 16, 2023
Messages
166
I'm surprised @Karea Ricardus D. didn't mention X-factor but what @Chase wrote above is indeed the essence of X-factor, which again I think will become a part of you, only with practice or there are other ways like visualization, meditation etc.

Another thing that helps is "winner effect" which Chase has talked about on GC. Set achievable goals that'll make you feel that you accomplished "something".

Your goals can be having sex, getting makeouts, flirting, moving her, approaching group, 2-sets, street-approach, just an approach, forcing eye-contact, making eye-contact, getting out of the house etc
 
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Karea Ricardus D.

Tribal Elder
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652

sunnygirl

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Dec 31, 2022
Messages
85
I'd say it depends on how receptive the girl is, and if I know my success rate is gonna be high. I rarely cold approach guys as there's no need to, they often initiate first. Girls are more tricky, some are taken, some are straight, some think I'm 'flirting' around just to be friendly so sometimes I immediately go Mode 1 and hover my eyes over her cleavage or hips and hope she gets the clue, lol. I notice my highest success rate is with liberal fellow bisexuals with nose piercings, some sort of tattoo, and dyed hair, some of them reciprocate immediately. However, as I wrote in my FR Maya has gotta be the straightest "looking" girl but as it turns out her looks weren't correlated with her sexuality at all. Same goes for me as soon as I reveal who I'm into many girls are surprised, they say I don't got that bi "look" which is imo ridiculous. @Surveyor that's probably why I told you I wanted to get a tattoo for that reason, although it is a stupid reason, lol.

Anyways OP back to your question it all depends on the reciprocity and vibe of the girl that'll make me enjoy an approach or plow through them. Like even if I don't close or get a number at the end, if the girl is pleasant to be around, I'll still enjoy the experience.
 

Higher

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
337
"Hey, do you know where XYZ is? Oh btw, I really like that ABC on you"

This.

What I do is opening informational, talking a little bit about whatever I'm looking for ("you know, my friends always mention that coffee place, and i'm not even really into coffee, but now i really wanna try it before i die"), and then "kinda noticing" that she's cute and I love her eyes/smile/style/whatever I find attractive of her.

My understanding is that most of the time, if you have a playful vibe, the girl already knows your real intent is getting to know her. She's just waiting for you to state it somehow (I do it directly), and then to proceed from there. I lost many girls to my "not getting to the point" soon enough. Some girls will not give you much time.

Also check this post by @Will_V.

Ciao!
-En
 

Will_V

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
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2,116
I first started cold approaching back in 2018, which almost seems like a lifetime ago at this point. I took a long break between 2021 and just about a week ago I started approaching again.

The issue is, I think I never actually truly got over approach anxiety, even in those 3 years between 2018 and 2021 with consistent approaching. I just learned to deal with it. Now that I'm approaching again, I can fairly reliably fight through my approach anxiety, but it's still a fight, it's still something I have to consciously push myself to do, and I'm never 100% relaxed.

The way I noticed this is kinda interesting, I was working the other day (I work from home) and planning to go out and do some day game when I finish work. By the time I finished, it had started to rain heavily, so I couldn't go out and approach - and I noticed I felt happy and relieved it was raining and I had an "excuse" to not go out and approach.

I'm naturally introverted, I guess a lot of people here are, and I'm not a very sociable person. It's not just a girl thing, even with friends or family, I very often spend a week or two without actually talking to literally anyone (and I don't have to since I work online). This is not to say I haven't learned social skills through learning game, because I have, I just see it merely as a means to end. If I had my way, I wouldn't talk to girls at all prior to bedding them, but obviously I know it doesn't work like that.

Still, even though I know how to talk to girls, I don't enjoy it, and approaching and chatting girls up (especially in that initial approach where it's up to you to keep the conversation going most of the time) is a mundane chore on a good day, and a fight where I literally force myself to approach on a bad day. This is why, when I go out and approach, it usually ends up being 3-4 approaches in one outing, because I feel my "social batteries" are so drained I just want to not talk to anyone else for the rest of the day.

How have you guys worked this through? And is there a way to go about approaching where you actually enjoy approaching instead of forcing yourself to do it?

The problem you have identified here is your 'introversion' which inhibits you from enjoying being around other people.

I've never liked the introverted/extroverted concept, because like many things related to problems managing one's mind, it's a label. Labels are bad for a variety of reasons. First of all it becomes 'I am X' rather than 'I am experiencing X', which makes the problem appear to be completely intractable and a part of your very nature. And secondly, naturally when a label is created, a lot of apparent advantages are created around it (usually by other people/society), which a person then becomes attached to, making them fear losing the label because they fear losing sense of their inherent strengths.

I grew up by all accounts an extremely 'introverted' person. All through school I had few friends, no girlfriends, played lots of immersive video games, was ridden by extreme social anxiety even in normal social situations (sweating and internal panic to the point where I literally could hardly see anything), and was also 'depressed' (though again, I don't really like that label or believe in it either).

There was only one thing that served as a counterweight to all of that, which is that I found that I had an ability to throw myself at difficult tasks with aggression. In the beginning, this was mainly spent at physical exercise and football (soccer), and later on in kickboxing as well.

So I had two different elements in my personality, but they seemed to be like oil and water. Around other people I was miserable, but with myself I could do anything. This resulted in me becoming a bit of a loner (which I still enjoy being) but obviously did nothing to get me any girls. Anytime a girl showed remote interest I would crumble mentally and she would swiftly exit. I could maintain some platonic 'mysterious loner' vibes with some girls but I knew that if I made any move toward her I would simply destroy my chances by becoming weak and falling apart.

At some point I was at an extremely low point and went to a psychologist (well, not really, a GP) who talked to me for 5 minutes and then started making the paperwork for a second appointment in which I was to be started on some medication, I don't even remember what it was. I said 'thanks but I'll think about it and let you know' and never went back or spoke to any doctor about mental issues ever again. Some part of me, I suppose that aggressive part of me, could not accept the label I was about to be given. And I have no doubt that it saved my life, because I know people in a similar situation to mine who did not resist and I can say with certainty that I would never want to go through what they did.

This is the danger of labels. Once you swallow them they infuse into your self-concept, to the point where to lose them means a loss of identity. Like a barb, they go in easily, but are very difficult to remove.

Still, even as I developed and worked through some of my problems, I considered myself 'introverted' and this made me feel a bit better about being socially incapable. However, at a certain point, after throwing myself out there in different situations (clubbing, approaching girls, traveling solo and making friends and staying with random people, kickboxing), and suffering through loads of social failures with only my perception to guide me, I realized that I wasn't actually introverted, rather I was inhibited.

The difference between 'introverted' and 'inhibited' is that introversion is permanent and intractable and has to be worked around, whereas inhibition is a state, it refers to some obstacle that can be strategized against and worked through. It also arouses the natural aggression of a man toward the idea of being restrained, which is a big part of what propelled me out of all the bad habits and mental pits I had ended up in, despite all the possible coping mechanisms I could have used instead.
...
It is my belief that when someone refers to 'introversion' what they are referring to is inhibition. Inhibition is lack of intent. And I don't mean intent as in a goal, like 'I want to sleep with that girl' - that's merely a pleasurable idea. Intent is the moment-to-moment satisfaction of projecting yourself forward through reality, the free expression of energy that moves you. The best way to think about it is when you're fucking a girl and about to cum, it doesn't matter how tired you are, thrusting requires zero effort, in fact even if you were absolutely exhausted, it would be very difficult to stop moving. All the atoms in your mind and body become energized and focused on ramming your cock in as hard as possible.

The question is, why is this not the state of the mind and body toward everything else that we want to do? Why do we not feel the same way toward the act of approaching a girl? Obviously, we are inhibited in this instance.

I've heard it said that extroverts are those who 'get their energy from other people' or something like that. I believe this is a gross mis-identification. In fact I believe that around other people, or specifically large groups of people (since 'introverts' apparently can often do well with one on one interactions), 'extroverts' become closer to their intent. And in the same situation, 'introverts' lose their intent and sense of self, which causes them to spend lots of effort trying to keep their identity afloat in the resulting sea of confusion.

But is this permanent and natural? I don't think so. One of the first times I realized this was when I gave a presentation at university. Of course, being still socially anxious, any form of public speaking terrified me. But at this time I was an environmentalist and the presentation was about some alternative to cyanide in mineral refinement. I'd spent a lot of time researching and had gotten very involved in the idea, and I crafted a really good presentation where at the end I had made some slide showing a huge open pit mine as a way of saying that destroying the earth was the alternative. Suddenly I had intent, and although I got nerves before the presentation, halfway through I suddenly looked around at everyone looking back at me and realized I really wanted them to know what I had to say, and all the fear disappeared. I became animated and energized and everything became focused on delivering the message. Even though the presentation wasn't the best, I saw other people enjoying my energy, and that was one of life's many big lessons for me.

What does fucking and giving a presentation have in common? They are both about delivering a message, one sticky and one conceptual. In both cases, not only did I stop having to spend effort trying to maintain things, but without effort on my part everything coalesced toward the same goal and made it very hard to stop.

But approaching doesn't have to be any different. The problem is that you have identified some idea - that you want to sleep with a girl - but you fail to ride your intent on the way there. The same way that I had an idea - the earth needs to be preserved - but if I didn't ride my intent every step of the way I wouldn't be able to do anything about it. It is a disregarding of the potential of the moment in front of you, while becoming attached to an idea, a grand, nebulous concept, that is not a part of your immediate reality. The solution is to immerse yourself in the delivery of the message that you can deliver right now.

The way I like to do it for approaching is like this. First I dress myself well, because the message I want to deliver is my first impression to everyone who sees me. Then I focus on my walk and my posture, to deliver more good impressions. Then I see some beautiful women walking around. And I see one marching around looking like she needs something to focus on so I say to myself 'I want this woman to see me, I want to deliver my presence to her right now'. Even if the interaction doesn't pan out, I know that in the moment she's going to open her attention to me (I am my message), and even later on she's going to curiously go over it in her mind and wonder who I am, why I approached her, what we could have done together, I want to plant that little seed in there.

When I approach her, and she's looking at me, I have a message to deliver, which is the message that I enjoy her, that she animates and arouses me, that I like this or that about her. Even if it doesn't pan out, she knows that I saw her for what she is, that is my message.

When we go on a date and I talk to her, I deliver my messages of living a free and uninhibited life and how it satisfies me. As I escalate, I deliver the messages of my arousal and my enjoyment of touching and getting closer to her. And when we fuck, I enjoy looking into her eyes and delivering my cock.

Everything in life is about delivering a message. When we become inhibited from delivering the messages that we were created to deliver, we suffer the exhaustion of trying to maintain some sense of identity. Because a man knows himself through his actions, not through what somebody else tells him or what he tells himself. His actions form his identity, which coalesce his mind and body toward doing those actions again and again with less and less effort. But when he inhibits himself from delivering messages (especially those opportunities right in front of him, that some part of him instinctually is driven to take) he loses himself and suffers anxiety, confusion, and a resulting chaotic expenditure of energy toward nothing in particular that leaves him exhausted after doing very little.

So my suggestion is to figure out what it is that you are aroused to do in-the-moment, all the way through the seduction, and focus on delivering each message, and enjoying the resulting satisfaction and reinforcement of your identity. That way, it will not tire you and leave you exhausted, your mind will not lean toward excuses but rather champ at the bit to deliver each message as far and as deep as you can.
 

TestY

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 7, 2023
Messages
74
Still, even as I developed and worked through some of my problems, I considered myself 'introverted' and this made me feel a bit better about being socially incapable. However, at a certain point, after throwing myself out there in different situations (clubbing, approaching girls, traveling solo and making friends and staying with random people, kickboxing), and suffering through loads of social failures with only my perception to guide me, I realized that I wasn't actually introverted, rather I was inhibited.

The difference between 'introverted' and 'inhibited' is that introversion is permanent and intractable and has to be worked around, whereas inhibition is a state, it refers to some obstacle that can be strategized against and worked through. It also arouses the natural aggression of a man toward the idea of being restrained, which is a big part of what propelled me out of all the bad habits and mental pits I had ended up in, despite all the possible coping mechanisms I could have used instead.
Preach! This is what I love about Andrew Salter's classic "Conditioned Reflex Therapy": viewing inhibition as the problem, and excitation [disinhibition] as the solution. He commented on dating as well:

"At a night club, a semi-nude performer volunteered to dance with a member of the audience, Formerly, much as he wanted to, he would have lacked the courage to do so, but now, with very little prodding from his friends, he got up and rhumbaed, to the great acclaim of the audience. This he liked very much, and it made him a great believer in the importance of relaxation. He continued to pay little attention to excitation [disinhibition].

I then decided that the time was ripe for emphasis on the concept of excitation [disinhibition], which I tied up to greater social adequacy with women. I presented it as a laundry drier for 'social wet-blankets, which indeed it is."
- Andrew Salter
The UKHypnosis guys have written about his approach, and Mark Davis recently re-released his classic book.
For an “inhibited” patient, Salter prescribes “excitatory” exercises.

[1] First & foremost is “feeling-talk.” The sentence, “Today is Friday” is dry, inhibited “fact-talk.” Salter would rather hear his patient getting some emotional outlet by saying, “Thank heavens, today is Friday and the weekend is here.”

[2] There is also “facial talk“: if a cat purrs when it is happy and a dog howls when its paw is stepped on, so should a man—or at any rate, scowl.

[3] From this it is a mere step to another Salter prescription: “Contradict and attack. When you differ with someone, do not simulate agreeability.”

[4] Salter insists on deliberate use of the word / as much as possible [“I talk”] (his book is full of it).

[5] Mock modesty is all nonsense: “Express agreement when you are praised.” [Agree with praise.]

[6] Finally, “Don’t plan. Live for the next minute… and tomorrow will take care of itself.” [Improvise.]
 

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
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Messages
636
@TestY

I was doing a lot of these excitory exercises intuitively since I’ve been inhibited for a good portion of my life. I’m going to try these and see the effects

For an “inhibited” patient, Salter prescribes “excitatory” exercises.

[1] First & foremost is “feeling-talk.” The sentence, “Today is Friday” is dry, inhibited “fact-talk.” Salter would rather hear his patient getting some emotional outlet by saying, “Thank heavens, today is Friday and the weekend is here.”

[2] There is also “facial talk“: if a cat purrs when it is happy and a dog howls when its paw is stepped on, so should a man—or at any rate, scowl.

[3] From this it is a mere step to another Salter prescription: “Contradict and attack. When you differ with someone, do not simulate agreeability.”

[4] Salter insists on deliberate use of the word / as much as possible [“I talk”] (his book is full of it).

[5] Mock modesty is all nonsense: “Express agreement when you are praised.” [Agree with praise.]

[6] Finally, “Don’t plan. Live for the next minute… and tomorrow will take care of itself.” [Improvise

Where is this from?
 
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