Feeling played into a relationship (edit: poor screening backfiring)

Mascotte1998

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Hey everyone,

Have a situation with a girl I've been dating for about a year and a half. So we basically started out as friends with benefits and all was going well. I was doing my thing but as feeling grew I tried to screen her past. I have been very hurt in the past and have insecurities about girls' pasts now so I try to be careful with it. Long story short this girl portrayed herself as not having being promiscuous in the past and being so innocent and all; was convinced about that because she really wasn't very good at sex at first and seemed so inexperienced; so I thought she's a good catch for me. As soon as she pushed for a relationship which I accepted, she told me about her past and it's nowhere near what she portrayed (gave me a number twice as high as originally) and can't help feeling having being played. I've always been 100% honest with her which is my philosophy. In her past she admitted doing something that strongly contradicts my views on relationships and the values around it (ie having knowingly dated and slept with a married person) This event was quite some time ago (reads years) and she says she has changed...I cannot get this out of my head as it just feels like i've been trapped and I'm strongly reconsidering the relationship. Like had she told me nothing I would have been better off than just saying something that has misled me. I also feel like a idiot because we had a heated conversation and now we both feel like crap...i had put so much hope in this girl and when I managed expectations all the way she basically was just self-serving ("by fear of losing me").

Now, I bear some responsibility in this as my screening probably wasn't on point. But i'm truly lost in this situation. I do have strong feelings to which I have admitted. But for me there is a strong distinction vs girls I want a relationship with (which she APPEARED to be) and girls I would never think about making a girlfriend (how she REALLY is).

Please, I need advice on how I can make my decision right. Thank you very much for your help.

All the best
 
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Mr.Rob

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Well you've learned a good lesson in female psychology from all this. Don't listen to her words or expect to tell you her true partner count if she's interested in a relationship with you.

You probably should've done a better job at screening her sexual past very early on in a non judgemental open atmosphere like the 2nd or 3rd time you ever slept with her while she still see you as a lover and not a potential boyfriend.

Moving forward you can either break up with her or if you like her then your going to have to just forget her past and love who she is now.

You do seem to have quite a large Madonna whore complex, you might want to ask yourself if the problem is really her or if it's YOU.

There are aspects that change when a girl had been sexually promiscuous but it more so has to do with her being less naive, divorcing sex from love, and understanding men more. And possibly being a bit more of a risk to cheat.

It doesn't ruin her value or make her less likely to be an enjoyable girlfriend or anything.

How many guys are we talking that she's been with?
 

Mascotte1998

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MrRob,

Thank you for your honest answer. However, please allow me to tell you about myself. I was brought up in a very conservative family where I was bought up to view marriage as a sacred thing.

Considering the Madonna whore complex. Maybe it is that, however, we're not talking about a huge difference in number between mine and hers (7 vs 10 (?)). Also, I was fine with the idea that I'd face this insecurity of "different counts" because deep down I realised it didn't matter that much. However, this marriage thing changed my view. It was a mistake, IN MY OPINION, yes. It was long ago, yes. I'm not white as snow either but have never cheated nor taken part in cheating. But when I enter a relationship, for me, I do it with the view of it potentially going the whole way, otherwise I would just date and not agree to any exclusivity so as to not waste her or my time. So I'm having trouble with this past disrespect for marriage.

But my problem stems, therefore, more in the feeling that when I was honest, open, non-judgemental and clear from the beginning with regards to expectations, she did not go through the same hassle. Created an image of who she was to fit my expectations, when I would rather see the actual person she is. I understand I am in no way entitled to know details about someones past. I also understand this is female psychology, I'm still learning...but although I really don't think it was done in a manipulative way, I cannot help the fact of feeling tricked...because my expectations were not managed by her (if it makes any sense for girls to manage a guy's expectations). Trustworthiness if for me the key to the strong basis of any relationship...and I feel that was scathed...

What do you think?

Please keep in mind I'm probably batting in a way lower league than you with regards to experience...but always willing to learn from others.

Thank you.
 

Skills

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I am not here to tell you if you should date her or not, but this is a seducer crowd not a tradecon crowed.... We are lovers/seducers and we can care less about her past we judge in how she treat us, and we do not care more much about monogamy and the likes it seems you do.... Then you need to either adopt different lover mindset or keep your current mindset and find a so call "madonna" they don't exist.

read this: http://www.theskillsmethod.com/lover-vs-provider-madonna-whore-complex-mw-featuring-teevestertva_oslo-v-blog/
 

Skills

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Like I said, willing to learn, thx for your input.

you have been with her 1.5 year based on your post, and she has not done anything to be consider a red flag other than she lied about her lay count and past, probably due to she liked you a lot and saw a future with you.... But saw that you had Madonna/whore or got those vibes from you and try to play it that way...... Now that she feels more comfortable in the relationship, she opened up.... And you reacted negatively this will cause tons of problems cause now she will not open up anymore cause she scare due to this, you will feel in return she is always hiding something and not trust worthy.... It will cause a lot of issues....

What is what you are trying to accomplish as resolution? what is the ideal outcome you want out of the relationship with her?
 
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Mr.Rob

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Mascotte, you are wise to seek insight into your situation. Keep an open mind as you get feedback in moving forward.

Considering the Madonna whore complex. Maybe it is that, however, we're not talking about a huge difference in number between mine and hers (7 vs 10 (?)).
Yes but to you a girl with 7 partners is a "whore" in your book. However in reality its probably close to perfect (see How many partners has your girlfriend had?).

However, this marriage thing changed my view. It was a mistake, IN MY OPINION, yes. It was long ago, yes. I'm not white as snow either but have never cheated nor taken part in cheating.
So I'm having trouble with this past disrespect for marriage.
Well have you never made a mistake when you were young before?

It sounds like something rash she did when she was young. I'm a bit reticent to believe its as black and white as she enticed a happily married man to cheat. Probably more like it that this guy was not happily married and seduced your girl and likely told her not to worry because their relationship was over.

Its not your girls responsibility to keep that guy from cheating on his wife and doesn't reflect her character so much as the guy in question.

Now it'd be totally different if you said that she herself had cheated on past boyfriends, but in this case she didn't cheat, but prob just hooked up with a guy who was going to cheat one way or the other.

But my problem stems, therefore, more in the feeling that when I was honest, open, non-judgemental and clear from the beginning with regards to expectations, she did not go through the same hassle. Created an image of who she was to fit my expectations, when I would rather see the actual person she is.
You say you were open and non-judgemental but my bet is that you weren't actually. The views you hold are fine but they are judgemental and rigid. She probably sensed this and not wanting to lose you just conveniently didn't tell you everything.

If you're truly non-judgemental and give women space to let their hair down and be themselves they will comfortably open up. But only if they feel certain you won't judge them or change your opinion of them. For this reason most girls will hide their past because MOST (like 95% of) guys will judge them.

but although I really don't think it was done in a manipulative way, I cannot help the fact of feeling tricked
You weren't tricked, in fact your lucky she even opened up about it at all... to which she is likely regretting quite heavily now.

Again these are things you should've learned in the first 2-3 times you hooked up with her when things are super casual and YOU create an environment of non-judgement and space for her to tell you her life story and sexual history.

In other words its your fault that she hid this from you. She hid it from you because she knew you'd likely react negatively and feared (rightly so it seems) that you'd not want to be with her because of it. To her its some fling thats a blip in her past thats not a big deal. But to you its a BIG deal and to her its stupid that your going to let something so small be such a big deal... so its easier to hide.

Remember women operate by "What daddy doesn't know won't hurt him". My mother (a saint of a woman) still does this with my father on nearly a daily basis. Its just the nature of women.

The men that realize and understand this communicate in such a way that lowers all those silly standards society places and simply let her be who she really is.

You reacting negatively the way you did is just reinforcing that she needs to hide anything that will make you see her as more of a "whore" and go out of her way to act saintly.

Remember women are like water. They will fit the glass or container that they are put in. If they are put in a strict morally upright glass they will only show you their saintly virgin side. Put the same girl in a relaxed and sexually open glass and she will show you her slutty porn star side of her.

You are the glass. She will bend and shift into whatever shape you give her.

The responsibility is on you as the leader of the relationship to give her the glass she'll feel comfortable to show you her true self.

Read the following:

Women Do Not Care About Morality and Secret Society

Cheers,
 

Rain

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To the OP, how old is she, and how many of her 10 partner count was ONS vs fwb/casual/short term relationship vs long term relationship?
 

Mascotte1998

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Nearing 30. from what I understood, she never had a "relationship" from her words; said I was the longest after roughly 9months...said she loved 5 (including a crush when she was like 10 or something). She feels very clingy and insecure (even before this blunder of mine).
 

Rain

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Quick transript of the video, both from Hector
0:45 "if she had one boyfriend, but been with 10guys, it will affect her. eg if she slept with 20guys and you're her first boyfriend, and she 21, that going to cause problems. If after 20guys she couldn't lock anyone down, and you give commitment, she sees them as higher value because they pumped her and dumped her"
1:50 "but if you meet her by time 25, and shes only had 2 boyfriends partner count, then she probably had her chance to party hoe phase and isnt interested but hoe phase can kick in at any moment party girl, but usually want to have ideally"
2:03 "ideally 2-4 maybe, serious expartners. Only dates girls with a few serious boyfriends. Doesn't date girls who just had a bunch of hookups"


Another one, in this one he was asked what he personally would require for a LTR
32:20 "partner count. if shes 20, she only had one or two guys maximum, and need to be relationships "
"if a girl has alot of hookups, no go. doesn't see sex , more sex experience she has the less she associates sex and love. their personalities change
eg once slept 10-15 guys, she starts thinking like a man"
35:45 cant drink too much, hard in eastern europe. so drinking young normal in russia romania, but hope not blacked out every night lol. Maybe if she had a little party experience, and is older and not do that anymore and if had chance to be crazy and slutty in that environment and she wasnt, it shows strength of character
36:40 its[above] different to women who partied at 20-25 , and then when 30 is like "going ot settle down" but you know she had sex with 20 different men

So maybe his opinion varied between the videos a little bit, or maybe he says what is ok for him vs what would still be low risk partner count for other guys. But anyway, if woman changes her thinking once slept with 10-15partners, maybe its more risky? Of course, your partner is 30, not 20 or 25, so that maybe goes in your favour a bit more. But she still had mostly 'hookups'[9] vs serious relationships[2]. One of those you ,and the other one was a 9month relationship?
Well hang on, you been with her 18months, but she was with another guy for 9months? but all the others were hookups / fwb if I'm understanding?
 

Mascotte1998

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Really appreciate your input Rain, thanks a lot.

Yes, basically.

Thanks for the help
 
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Mascotte1998

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Another question I'm asking is that at this point, would you be in a relationship with someone who's basically never had any long term relationship by that age?

Somehow, I kind of feel pressure on this. I feel like I have to deal with emotional luggage stemming from this sometimes when I'm already pretty unsure of where I am in life...The worst part is despite my poor screening, I had this gut instinct I couldn't shake that she'd be like this. She seems genuine when she tells me she loves me though. And I don't know if this is good but I have this little hope that I can offer that to her.
 
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BigPapa

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@Mascotte1998 let's be pragmatic about it :)

You are already for 1.5 years together , so you passed a long time ago the point of no return ( being hurt wise ) .

If during this 1.5 years you had a good relationship , it means that more or less this is how she is , and telling you the truth means she cares about you and felt like shit having to keep this secret anymore. So this is basically another sign she cares about you .

If she had sex with a married guy 6 years ago , I do not think it matters anymore . If she was a promiscuous girl you would have found out by now , but since you were happy with her for such a long time , it means that she is a good girl , that basically did some mistakes . Social pressure is a fucked up thing and make you do stupid things that later you will regret .

My advice , just go and say sorry for blowing up for no real reason , and tell her that from now one there should be no more secrets .
 

Mascotte1998

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Thanks a lot man, honestly.

That's solid advice...and yes I think it was mostly my insecurities speaking. She doesn't deserve me blowing up...yes we had a deep conversation about secrets and we both seems to want to work hard on it.

Yes, social pressure, whole conversation to open up on this haha

Thanks again man!
 

Invictus_Reformed

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Mascotte1998...it has been a while since your post. It would be interesting to see how things have progressed since. I disagree with the idea that it is your fault that she lied or misrepresented in any way if there was enough time for her to share her experiences/background. This has more to do with her character, honesty, respect for you, and ability to offer transparency in hopes of true intimacy. For some people, they may prefer the idea of "what they don't know can't hurt them", but you're obviously pursuing a truly intimate and committed relationship with this girl. I would't be worried about her having 10 partners around the age of 30, however, I would be more concerned about the majority of them being outside of committed relationships (low barriers to entry)....with a few exceptions here or there. I can understand your concern around having sex with a married person. That said, you have to appreciate the fact that she is sharing this information with you and the fact that people can and will make decisions outside of their value systems at times. I'd be more concerned with how and what she thinks about this, what she has learned from it, and essentially how convincing she is regarding entering into a situation like that again. It is easy to see that you have a good values...and while this site and others can offer worldly advice and valuable insight into the psyche of women/intergenderdynamics it's not a place if you're in search of a virtuous perspective. Many of us are seeking a virtuous woman, but are not willing to lead virtuous lives ourselves. In other words, if a girl sleeps with you on your first date or shortly thereafter...willing to accept FWB....a non-monogamous relationship....what do you expect? Most of us would take the opportunity and run with it...., but the discipline is knowing what you're dealing with and whether to get into a relationship or emotionally involved is the key. We learn from experience. Bro, you're already 1.5 years in...how much time are you willing to invest in this knowing whether she LTR material or not? To the extent you pursue a relationship with her you have to completely eliminate the judgement from your mind...forgetting about it or accepting whatever her nature is as it is. The judgement or skepticism will ruin your relationship 100%. If you stay with her, never mention it again....just make sure she clearly knows the rules and boundaries....and then trust, but verify. Yes, a woman with a promiscuous past absolutely has a higher likelihood of cheating in the future...what we're all screening for. Regardless, even though she is with you...are you good knowing that if you were not in the equation that she'd go home with somebody and f*ck them the first day....or with no strings attached? Perhaps not the type of woman you'd want to wife up...because when sh*t gets difficult (as it always does)...she has to have solid character not to revert back to her baseline behavior which was established before you met. High value women do exist..., but they're not perfect either...and they're in the minority. If she's not fully honest and forthcoming with you and able to clearly communicate and demonstrate her commitment to the ideals your speaking of you'd be better off working on your own value and experience level rather than investing more time/energy. If you've been together for 1.5 years, both of you should either know 100%, or you don't. Your time is extremely valuable...you're spending it being locked up in a this relationship. You could have relationships with high-quality women that are willing to be totally honest, willing to commit 100%, and that you will not have to be looking over your shoulder 3-years from now uncertain whether the backdoor is open. Most women are not confident or mature enough in themselves or evolved enough to pass up the attention from a new interest...and even if you're relationship game is super tight there will be times she does not feel she is getting what she needs...this when it happens...and it has everything to do with her boundaries, ability to respect herself, you, and a willingness/ability to be honest with you. Once you've seen this enough times and experienced the after effects, you'll screen for women so hard you'll know exactly what you're dealing with upfront. That part is unclear to you and your intuition is speaking to you. Important, she has to be the one to clearly communicate her value system to you, her past faults, and be willing and strong enough in her self to share this knowing your could leave or stay. It's a pathetic excuse. My $.02, put yourself #1, trust your instincts, and don't be afraid to address any bit of dishonesty as a complete deal-breaker. You have to make that clear upfront...and if you have now....time will tell. Remember, honest people do not compromise their honesty out of self-preservation or for any other reason...they own it and deal with whatever consequences come with it. That part is probably more important than her past....and you clearly want somebody who clearly demonstrates this. Good luck....
 
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