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FR  Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill"

lux7

Cro-Magnon Man
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I remember reading a story from Chase where the girl said she forgot her credit card and he was like "ooops, me too".

I had thought that was mildly brutal but she had it coming with her intention and lie.
And yet it pales to what happened to me yesterday.

It's the same girl who flaked in my last report.
And by postponing to later time yesterday and then being late on the re-scheduled time wasn't buying her any goodwill.

Given the story, let's call her "freeloader".

Freeloader shows up dyed hair and perm, heavy make up, heels, long black coat and branded red bag, smelling of perfume 2km away.
I love stylish girls but too showy becomes tacky. This was slightly on tacky, but still "barely acceptable" territory.

I can smell a girl like that kilomters away: I knew chances were high she might have expected of being paid for.


AT THE RESTAURANT

Why would you go with her to a restaurant you might wonder. Well... I hadn't eaten yet and was starving.

So we pick one and we sit.

Her English is so poor I can't even understand her ethnic background.
She looks Asian, but also, somehow, very Russian to me. Indeed she speaks Russian. Then I seem to understand her mom is Mongolian.

She says she likes people from my country as they are gentleman. And I very much don't like that framing (later she would also say men from my country have many women, which is much better, even though those low level stereotypes don't help her build any value).

Anyway, we order pizza and salad to share.
A beer each, she barely drinks hers, she probably left more than 2/3 of it as "she just drinks veeeery little (why would you order it then, I think)

The food is also not enough for her, so she also orders another dish of pasta which I then also eat a bit.

PULL EFFORT

As the eating draws to an end I write on a translator we should go watch a movie, and she says she can't today but "next time".

Had we agreed to go back together I might have picked up the bill.
But the "next time" amped my resolve of not paying.

TIME TO PAY

She writes something like "sorry for me being late and thank you for this", implying she's been invited.

I say it's ok and write on the translator "let's go pay".

THE LITTLE SCENE

At the register, I tell the clerk to divide in a half and pay half of it by card. Then move slightly to the left to let her pay.

Oooops she's didn't see that coming.

She says she has no card. Many times.
I tell her I don't have enough money sometimes, some other times reply "but you got cash" or just say "come on" and pointing towards the register as to say "your turn".
This goes for a while and now two more couples stand behind us waiting to pay.
Nobody speaks: everyone is watching the scene.

I'm still not willing to pay though, and after a while tell the people behind me to move ahead with their own payment as I step to the side.

Some talking in the local language between the clerk and Freeloader, and both of them are telling me to hand the card.
I keep inviting freeloader to pay instead, wondering what the fuck are they trying to do: I've already made it clear I won't pay the whole thing.

The people behind are still completely silent, watching the scene as social pressure piles up on me.

After having blocked the line for a while I understand: the clerk needs the card to cancel my transaction, otherwise they can't process new payments.
I finally hand my card.

The clerk is unbelievably cold to me to say the least.
He's probably thinking I'm an asshole not inviting the girl? And that I'm a double asshole for letting her grill in that situation. And triple asshole for forming a line and still not just paying the thing?
Maybe.

The transaction is cancelled, the other couples pay, without anyone saying a single word.
Now it's back to us again.

And it seems like she really doesn't have cash or card.
She's nervously using her phone. Sometimes looking at me panicked as she utters "oh my God".
She repeats "oh my God" a few times, I'm actually feeling bad for her.
I'm checking online how much the whole amount would be in Euro: 52 Euros or so. Nothing crazy but nope, not willing to pay that.
I didn't wanna "punish" her or anything, far from it, I just didn't wanna pay for her.

Freeloader and the clerk keep talking to each other. Freeloader keeps nervously using the phone and calls someone.
The clerk leaves the station and goes downstairs.
I now ask to pay my half and pay cash. Not a thank you, not a nod of the head.
I'm thinking I'm done with my part anyway and I might just leave if this keeps going on for too long.

I've noticed it's really easy here to pay electronically, yet I don't know how, after a while freeloader finally manages to pay with her phone and/or by handing a few digits.
Maybe she called someone to get her card details? Not sure.

I open the door to leave, without turning towards her.
This interaction is gone, it makes no sense pretending we might still see each other or "it was nice with you".
Once we're outside, I slow down and she hurries past me. She even turns her head, very quickly and without specifically looking at me, and says "bye".
I know higher level of bitchiness would have never said bye. She wasn't thaaat bad after all.
Then she quite literally slinks away in the crowd with a super hurried pace, as if she wanted to go as far as possible, as soon as possible.

That must have been such a terribly embarrassing time for her.

Truth is, it was the same for me.
I thought coming out with no money at all was impolite of her, as was impolite to order another dish knowing she had no money.
Yet I felt very upset during the whole time, and even afterwards, I still kept feeling bad for her.


YOUR THOUGHTS

What are your thoughts?

Did I exaggerate?
 

Smith

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

Damn dude...that was tough. She was put on the spot as well. I would've made her explain why she doesn't have money with her....This would put the social pressure on her instead of you. Then after she explained why she didn't bring money with her, just offer "help" and be like "I can borrow you some money if u want". It makes you look less of an asshole and more of a gentleman, but at the same time you're not giving her a free pass. Then after you get out of the restaurant, just walk straight to the nearest bank or something and get your money back lol

If you sensed that this girl might expect you to pay, just tell her "let's split the bill yea?" before you get to the register. Then any excuse from her can be handled without the social pressure from other people. I guess some girls have different expectations when it comes to dating. Some of my friends do think the guy has to pay since he asked them out. But some wants to pay separately so they don't feel like they owe him anything. Either way it doesn't mean they're bad people, just different expectations. I've only encountered a similar situation once, where the girl thought I had paid, but like you, I stood aside and motioned her to pay. She didn't argue and still paid in the end, but I could tell she was taken by surprise and rather unhappy. Honestly I didn't have a great time with her so I was definitely not going to pay for her no matter what. The date ended quickly after that too. so this shit does happen man, but they are rare and you don't usually meet girls who feel entitled and expect you to pay.
 

Grand Pooba

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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

I think you did the right thing but the process might be better if it looked different.

Yeah, for a girl like this you shouldn't pay for her. Maybe she'll learn from this one.

But you should have, in this situation, probably handled it at the table in a socially graceful way. By typing into your phone that you're splitting the bill with her. I mean, you already knew it with her, so...

Probably the right way is to do it in a playful way. Like, when she said she's not down to go home with you and watch a movie, that's probably when you could have thrown in something playful like "well, I am not even sure I can pay the bill today," or "I'm so glad you're buying me all this food, for my movie," follow up with talking about paying the bill.
 

HellAtlantic

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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

It's a dick move to spring it out of no where "oh hey surprise surprise you gotta pay too even tho all the other dates you've been on the guy has picked up the tab hence your assumption you didn't need to bring money." There's a way to do things where you make your intention to split the bill known ahead of time. When she ordered the extra dish it would've been a good time to say "oh hey I didn't bring out a ton of cash, just wanted a small dinner, pizza and beer". At that point she can cancel the order. Or if you're the seducer man whore you think you are you spin it and play to your advantage - "still hungry? Cancel that extra dish. Let's go somewhere else to eat, I know a good place" and you bring her home. You would've given her a good reason to go back to your place and you wind up increasing the chances of banging. But it's a dick move the way you did it. You suffered through embarrassment, lost the girl and flushed your chances of banging her down the drain so you went through all of that for nothing. Fun story though.
 

Marcellus

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

Just when I thought you were gonna pay for her... BANG you held your frame. It wasn't the most exciting time, but you held your frame and didn't supplicate and pay for her so there's always that.

Marcellus
 

HellAtlantic

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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

I don't think it's a matter of how well he held his frame, it's more that there was a better socially acceptable way of handling this. The way he did it there was no way to escape embarrassment. No need for that. Like I said, could've gracefully said "if you're still hungry lets go to my place, I only brought out enough cash for a pizza and beer." Putting her on the spot in front of other ppl was immature. He mentions how tacky it was that she expected him to pay for her and she not wanting to go to his place, it's also pretty tacky to say "she's not gonna come over my place, well fuck that I'm splitting the bill then, why should I pay for her? If girls are gonna expect more than a pizza and beer out of me then they should be giving me amazing sex." How does he know that wasn't just her ASD that made her say she wasn't going to go to his place? Maybe if if he spent more time comfort building she would've changed her mind. Maybe in her mind she was saying "this guy is gonna have to invest more than just a pizza and beer if he wants to sleep with me."
 

lao che

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

this is funny. i'm cringing as i read it.

it does make you sound a little butthurt, as hellatlantic says, like "no movie? well, then, fuck you!"

plenty of mistakes made, i would say. primarily not being clear and upfront with your intentions.
i mean, you arranged to meet at a restaurant, what's she gonna think?
also a little harsh on the girl. girls like this, their looks, make up, clothes etc, that's all they have. she puts as much effort into that as you put into learning game, or learning your trade or whatever. and she made that effort for you, for half a pizza and a third of beer lol.

mind you, 50+ euros is not a cheap dinner!
 

lux7

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

Thanks for contributing guys, was really thinking on what would have been "better ways to handle".

Now it's a bit late, I'll answer more in depth later on, just a quick note: anything above a very basic discussions was tough here cause 80% of the talk was via a translator (the other 20% words like "pizza", "pasta", "like" and similar).
I was wondering if a translator would even get "we split the bill" right (but then again: would you tell the girl to split the bill before the paying time comes? That sounds even weirder to me honestly than "casually" telling "shall we split" the moment you pay).
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Hector Papi Castillo

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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

Yeah, you probably weren't going to get pussy, so that money would have been for naught. At that point, you just pick the preferred death. I'm a fucking rebellious prick, so this actually was funny to me, but I also don't care too much either and might have paid just to get the fuck out of there.

But if the real question is - "how do you get out of a fully-locked rear naked choke?" then the answer is

Don't get caught in one.

Hector
 

lux7

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

Well, once you're already in the restaurant, I don't think there were that many ways of handling better TBH.

You don't wanna ask a girl to split the bill before paying, that's unnatural and shows you're putting a lot of mental efforts into the bill, which usually is not a very attractive trait.

It was either suck it up and pay, or do the little scene lol.


radeng said:
Id def tell other girls this story but make it seem like the girl was just awful and deserved it. Good social proof wrapped up in a funny story and girls LOVE to trade bad date stories.

Radeng

Eheheh good point man, share the story before paying and don't worry again of her not chipping in :).
 

Grand Pooba

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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

lux7 said:
You don't wanna ask a girl to split the bill before paying, that's unnatural and shows you're putting a lot of mental efforts into the bill, which usually is not a very attractive trait.

1. Making a giant scene like how you did is unnatural, putting a lot of mental effort into the bill, and not an attractive trait either ;).
2.You already knew she wasn't going home with you and you'd never see her again.
 

lux7

Cro-Magnon Man
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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

Grand Pooba said:
lux7 said:
You don't wanna ask a girl to split the bill before paying, that's unnatural and shows you're putting a lot of mental efforts into the bill, which usually is not a very attractive trait.

1. Making a giant scene like how you did is unnatural, putting a lot of mental effort into the bill, and not an attractive trait either ;).
2.You already knew she wasn't going home with you and you'd never see her again.

You didn't get the point: if you go to the register and say "let's split the bill" and she has money and she pays, which is the far most common scenario, then you're good.

If you tell her beforehand while you're still sitting "we're gonna split", then you're more likely to lose some points because you should still be in a modality like "ahh this food was nice" / "it was a good time here with you"
 

OldSelf

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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

Anatman said:
Yeah, you probably weren't going to get pussy, so that money would have been for naught. At that point, you just pick the preferred death. I'm a fucking rebellious prick, so this actually was funny to me, but I also don't care too much either and might have paid just to get the fuck out of there.

But if the real question is - "how do you get out of a fully-locked rear naked choke?" then the answer is

Don't get caught in one.

Hector

The fact that I wouldn't have cared made me start to care that I didn't.. care? But then, seeing that you laughed and I was cracking up the whole time too sheds some light into my ways of - being a rebellious prick myself.

By the not getting "caught in one" do you mean avoiding the situation altogether, if so how would you have done it?
 

Paulie Walnuts

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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

Dude that was hard to read and I can feel the social pressure even sitting here.

I might have balked and paid or I might have done what you did; really just depends on my mood.

As someone who goes on a lot of dates (and would literally go broke if I paid for all of them), I've found there's little things you can do to make sure the girl pays her share; I usually throw some frames of "I'm glad it's the 21st century and modern dating isn't like the old days or I'd go broke!", or "I hate when women feel entitled for a guy to pay for them". (These sound really bad and it's not exactly what I say but subtle framing during and before the date can screen and weed out time wasters and girls that want you to pay!)

Dinner/sit down places are harder, fast food/coffee just walk up first, order and then just pay before she orders haha.
 

OldSelf

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Re: FR - Forced socially BRUTAL "split the bill" , give me feedback

trackrunner12 said:
Dude that was hard to read and I can feel the social pressure even sitting here.

I might have balked and paid or I might have done what you did; really just depends on my mood.

As someone who goes on a lot of dates (and would literally go broke if I paid for all of them), I've found there's little things you can do to make sure the girl pays her share; I usually throw some frames of "I'm glad it's the 21st century and modern dating isn't like the old days or I'd go broke!", or "I hate when women feel entitled for a guy to pay for them". (These sound really bad and it's not exactly what I say but subtle framing during and before the date can screen and weed out time wasters and girls that want you to pay!)

Dinner/sit down places are harder, fast food/coffee just walk up first, order and then just pay before she orders haha.

After the date is set up, a simple "Sounds good. Bring cash. :)" works well in my experience.
 
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