FR FR - Sticking point with intent with indirect openers

[flatron]

Last 2 FR's have been lay reports, so thought i'd post a boring/non-eventful one to even it out. Maybe learn somthing

popped out with my very good looking friend last night. Tends to mess up my state a bit lol.

A non-eventful FR because I stupidly spent nearly all night with a group of girls (who I know from a cold approach like a year back and kissed one of them back then but couldn't close and since then she's not interested and neither are her friends so it was a stupid move!). Two of them kept asking where my 'handsome friend' was every time he disappeared - Wound me up! haha. He also got approached by a girl as he was at the bar trying to get served and she started kissing his neck telling him how hot he was lol

Best part of my night was I was on the dancefloor and some super hot girl who I had noticed earlier but didn't approach at the time stood near me on the dancefloor. I opened her super direct (I tend to only do indirect openers) but she loved it and basically started coming onto me! I was in a bit of shock tbh because she was super cute. Anyway, it terms out she was 17!! haha. I could be her father. We made out and I was able to get her to chase a little bit by telling her she was too young for me. I lost her a few mins later, though. Hard to keep these young girls attention.

I also opened 2 absolutely gorgeous girls at teh bar. They were here for one night from out of town. I opened her on her outfit (my standard type of opener 99% of the time.) They were super friendly. The one I liked the most (close call. They were both so hot) was a bit harder to talk too than the other. There were too many awkward silences once i'd got the basic small talk subjects out of the way. Tried cold reads and stuff but she just wasn't really 'hooking'.

I got chatting too the other one who was more talkative (more attracted?) and we were sitting together and chatting, but I just couldn't get the convo to that next level. 'Man to woman' if you like. I have this sticking point all the time. Unless she's outright flirting with me or I just KNOW that she's attracted, I don't seem to be able to 'make the move' at all. I always come out of them interactions thinking ''Why didn't I just say something like 'You're really hot btw!' or something!!?''. Might not be the smoothest 'game' but it's something and gives you a shot. 2 very hot sociable girls by themselves in a new town for one night was well worth trying to push!! I done goofed there

 

[Toby2030]

Work on flipping the script for easier hooks - try to set up the conversation where she asks you questions. Give vague answers, make her guess where you are from etc. and do light cold reads. In my experience, strong hooks are about showing an understanding of who she is + creating voids in the interaction.

For sexualization - Strong EC without moving anything on your face + proximity and pauses are powerful and get you a lot of the way. Look at her like you want to fuck her. Sprinkle some misinterpretations, push-pull type of intent on top and escalate towards sexual convo topics, and you'll have a decent foundation. "You have an interesting vibe about you, but I'm a shy boy, so don't get any ideas".

 

[Cody Lyans]

Just note something cool about them and let them know. Whoa this color is fucking amazing.
These are the kind of compliments to throw out for that extra shot bonus. But also just to be a good dude who helps them feel good and confident.
Remember it needs to not be about stuff anyone would say, it needs to be a real actual thing and specific, but not so specific it's weird like, oh your hair is 2mm longer than yesterday and you have a panty outline yesterday that today is gone, good job... Cuz that's tooooo specific.
Throw out more compliments like that in the Goldie locks zone and you will get a bit more stuff going on

 

[flatron]

Work on flipping the script for easier hooks - try to set up the conversation where she asks you questions. Give vague answers, make her guess where you are from etc. and do light cold reads. In my experience, strong hooks are about showing an understanding of who she is + creating voids in the interaction.

For sexualization - Strong EC without moving anything on your face + proximity and pauses are powerful and get you a lot of the way. Look at her like you want to fuck her. Sprinkle some misinterpretations, push-pull type of intent on top and escalate towards sexual convo topics, and you'll have a decent foundation. "You have an interesting vibe about you, but I'm a shy boy, so don't get any ideas".

In terms of the hook point, I'd already reached that with the girl in question. Had done cold reads and given vague answers and made her guess things etc. Everything you mention, really.
But I didn't sense attraction. I mean, there was this really old dude, like 70, who was also at the table with us for a bit, and he had also reached teh 'hook point' lol. She kept initiation convos with both of us, but i'm pretty sure he didn't have a shot with this hot 19 year old lol.

IN terms of sexualisation, yeah, I do all those things. Look at her like I want to bang her, strong eye contact etc. But it's just no 'enough'? It doesne't really give me enough feedback. And maybe it doesn't even give her enough permission to flirt with me 'risk free' in terms of rejection in the even that she actually is into me! Does that make sense?

However, you're right about things like 'sexual topics'. I think that's an element of the 'missing piece' i'm talking about. Something to bridge the gap between 'so waht do you do?' and us getting very flirty and close etc. Hard for me too explain. I also like your line about her 'vibe' though. That's another good example. So annoying that i tend to also forget these lines in the moment, or they just feel very incgonruent at the time for some reason so I don't use them!

With the girl that I made out with, even though it was only a kiss, it shows me the power of taking risks and even being very unsubtle about it! I literally opened her with 'hi' and then told her that I thought she was super hot, and within 30 seconds we were kissing. The whole vibe changed instantly.

I almost want to experiment using this type of 'simplified' game as I think of it. For example, there's a PUA called EvolutionDaily, and his 'game' is either open super direct (if seh's into it and receptive, escalate, if not, move on to the next girl) OR he opens indirect, chats a bit, and then gives a statement of intent like ''I think you're beautiful by the way''. That's what I wish I would have done with that girl because it's a million times better than what I did which was essentially nothing! lol (despite strong eye contact, pauses, sexual sub coms bla bla bla)

I also feel there's some inner game resistance. Like, she was so cute and a lot younger than me that I just didn't think she'd be interested, and so in that situation, I think i'd need some HUGE IOI's from the girl before I was brave enough to make some sort of move

 

[Velasco]

In terms of the hook point, I'd already reached that with the girl in question. Had done cold reads and given vague answers and made her guess things etc. Everything you mention, really.
But I didn't sense attraction.

there was attraction. What you sensed was a lack of sexual attraction/arousal. Don't confuse the two. If she's there in front of you, laughing at your jokes, trying to guess what you do after not completely answering her question, keeps initiating the conversation, then she's attracted/intrigued by you. She wants to get to know you because you managed to turn that "this guy isn't ugly" into "this guy is funny/interesting" and the next step from THAT is to turn that into "this guy is sexy/making me horny"

That emotion you sense when you talk about "attraction"(which is really sexual arousal) is when you approach girls that are already horny (either due to ovulating/DTF or horny from all the alcohol they've consumed) who think you're sexy right from the get-go (which you can fuck up by overescalating) Not just "this guy isn't ugly".

IN terms of sexualisation, yeah, I do all those things. Look at her like I want to bang her, strong eye contact etc. But it's just no 'enough'?

yeah when you sense that doing those NON-verbal sexualization tactics aren't enough in terms of turning her on (looking like you want to bang her, proximity, kino), that's when you move to VERBAL sexualization tactics i.e. Sex Talk.

However, you're right about things like 'sexual topics'. I think that's an element of the 'missing piece' i'm talking about.

yeah lol. Here's some topics to get you started:

• What you like and don’t like in bed
• What you know most women like in bed
• Discussing orgasms, pleasure, horniness, and good sex
• Sharing some personal experiences
• Discuss sex techniques
• Discuss the psychology of sex
• Whatever else sex related that can make you come across as a great lover

 

[flatron]

@Velasco Yeah, sexualised topics is good. I tend to do that as a way to amplify arousal once we're already flirting and I KNOW that she's into me. It seems to flow naturally in that situation

But in situations like the other night where I wasn't sensing sexual interest from her, I feel like it will always be super 'clunky'! Like: ''I'm gonna guess you're a hairdresser! bla bla bla''.......''So, what do you do for fun?'' bla bla bla .....''yeah....so, how do you like to be fucked?''. lol.

I still want to experiment with simple 'statements of intent'. Open indirect, small talk (what do you do, how old are you bla bla bla) and soon after just tell her I think she's hot. Jeffy coaches this. EvolutionDaily does that loads in his infields. Even surgical pickup seems to suggest it. I just have a kind of 'block' against using them. Funnily enough though, some of my best results have come from being way more direct! I think it's maybe just fear! But also a feeling like it's not 'good' game. It's basically how a child would 'run game' lol. But still seemingly more effective than what I found myself doing on the weekend with just trying to sub-communicate my intent. I'm hoping that I just wasn't her type and that I never stood a shot, but something is telling me I might have missed a great opportunity tbh! (she even beckoned me over at one point which is when I was sitting next to her talking for ages, but we were just talking about nightlife, the city she's from and her job and stuff and I was giving strong eye contact and using pauses and all that jazz, but before I knew it, they'd gone!! lol)

Like, that stuff CAN obviously work. I banged a girl a few months back and we were just small talking, but I was gazing into her eyes and sub communicating, BUT with her, she done it right back to me and then she started kind of almost escalating on me. Perfect. But that's rare. What happens more (like this weekend) is i'll be sub communicating etc, and she likely knows that I want her, but she's not showing her hand at all. Maybe she's not interested. Maybe she's not certain enough in my intent to be able to flirt back without fear of an awkward rejection on her part!!? lol. And so i'm still just trying to make convo and after a while, it just fizzles out and i'm pissed at myself

Next time, i'm gonna experiment with a few different concepts. Literally write lines on my arm to remind me as I have like the worst memory in the universe. Use lines like @DML 's example by telling her she has an interesting vibe and not to get any ideas etc. I'm gonna call these 'pre intent lines'. Things to bridge the gap between small talk and flat out hardcore flirting

And also experiment with the more blatant evolutionDaily style and just flat out tell her she's cute a few mins into the convo.

I like looking at infields where the situation is similar. Not always easy to find because lots of them are either super direct opens, or they are interactions where the girl is just blatantly into him the second she laid eyes on him (like most of Max's infields) in which case he just ramps up the kino etc, knowing that she's massively attracted and everything 'just happens', but it's easy when she's throwing herself at you lol. I can think of one with Julien though which is much more like real life!! It's one where he's chatting up these young girls and one of them speaks french and she's never really 'showing her hand' at all. And I can almost sense Julien thinking 'how am I gonna move this forward!!?'' lol. He just carries on self amusing, concentrating on speaking to her more than her friends, and eventually his 'move' is to basically move her, try to get her on her own, where he tries to get her to ditch her friends but she doesn't and he loses her.

Before that, the only thing that resembled some sort of 'pre intent line' in that infield was when he accused her of fancying him (which is one that i've used before!)

I DO have a couple of these such lines etc that i'm basically asking for in this thread! It's more that I either forget them in the moment, or that lines just don't seem to fit the moment or the energy at that time.

I've made so many approaches and have banged a decent number of girls from cold approach now so this topic might seem way too basic at my stage, but I also feel like it's something that isn't brilliantly covered in general, because I see lots of posts like this on PUA forums despite there being so many products out there that we can all just torrent nowadays!

 

[Toby2030]

Take EvolutionDaily and his material with a grain of salt. He's a part of Todd's the system with student infield. His game isn't good yet.

Showing intent is fine as long as you still remain as the prize, and make sure that she's actually working for your compliments. Your overall frame should be that you are evaluating her for a potential fuckbuddy/relationship/sex etc. But remember to push her away as well. Withholding validation is really really powerful. You have to use some push in your game -> it creates tension. I used to be really direct with a lot of compliments etc. in my first year. However, it seems like the more subtle you make everything and the less it seems like you are trying to pick her up, the more effective it is.

The next time you approach try to look at her and say the first positive thing you notice, and follow it up with a negative. OR The first negative and follow it up with a positive. "You have the most devilish expressions, you seem like bad influence, get away from me" "You are the worst at drinking shots I've ever seen. It's a shame, I actually started liking you" etc. etc. And then escalate your statements more and more sexual.

What works for me - If I feel stuck in a conversation and don't know where to take it, I escalate. Sexual convo topics, physical, logistical, we frame/intent

 

[Velasco]

Like: ''I'm gonna guess you're a hairdresser! bla bla bla''.......''So, what do you do for fun?'' bla bla bla .....''yeah....so, how do you like to be fucked?''. lol.

my guy...obviously shes gonna be like, "umm no thank you" and eject if theres no sexual interest from her yet. You build up to it. by smoothly transitioning from one topic, that gives you the context to talk about how she likes to get fucked. Like if you were to ask her, "whats her type of guy she usually goes for?" she'll tell you "he has to be tall, handsome blah blah" then you go interesting. Have you ever fucked a guy that was tall blah blah and the sex was terrible" then she'll share an experience, "actually there was this one time" then rather then ask her how she likes to get fucked, you cold read her, "you know I can tell exactly how you like to get fucked. You just have that face." then isolate her, "ok come here for a second I don't want anybody to hear" then cold read how she likes to get fucked while doing those non-verbal sexualization tactics as well. That's how you smoothly turn on a girl that didn't feel any sexual interest (but was attracted to you) towards you from the get go.

Use lines like @DML 's example by telling her she has an interesting vibe and not to get any ideas etc. I'm gonna call these 'pre intent lines'. Things to bridge the gap between small talk and flat out hardcore flirting

yeah that's a good start. Todd talks about this in The System. Showing interest without giving your power away: