Break Ups From Destiny to Doom: A Narcissist/Borderline Pairing

[Ambiance]

Hi everyone. Once I was more prolific on here, but even these past few years while in my relationship I have remained an avid reader if not poster. It is good to be fully back!

This post will go over my first serious relationship, while exploring the natural affinity of the male narcissist and female borderline, and will conclude with me asking how to proceed from here. The recap goes over many telling signs of NPD/BPD but is a bit long, so you may want to skip to the end.


Relationship Recap
About two months ago, my girlfriend of 3 years and I finally ended things for good. We both had nearly broken up with each other plenty of times before, but each time I couldn't bear losing her and pulled out all the stops to repair things (even if it was I who dumped her). After all, despite some faults this girl fascinated me and adored me and filled a big void in me, how could I throw that away?

Our relationship began so blissfully. For the first time in my life, I had a girl completely under my thrall that I saw as a worthy counterpart to my ideal self. She was so fascinating:
- 5'3" with BIG, perfectly shaped tits and a tight waist (the definition of Busty/Petite)
- Gorgeous face that even reminded me of the girl I was obsessed with in high school
- Demure/excited vibe that I go nuts for
- This spunky/needy dichotomy that challenged me enough to keep my interest but then rewarded me with excessive doses of love, affection, and dependency
- Practically unlimited and mind-blowing sex (think our record was 7 sessions in one day)

I was hooked. This was the type of relationship I had dreamed of, had consciously visualized. This was one of two potential endgames I was happy with concerning my journey with women (the other endgame is becoming the guy with a 100-200+ laycount, children with multiple women of outstanding genetic disposition, always has a harem, experiences love but remains in control and not entirely committed).

As the relationship went on I began to see warning signs. My girlfriend alluded to having a dark, depressive, anxious side to her personality and was terrified I would someday see it (and like Jekyll and Hyde, her dark side did rear its ugly head and waxed while the girl I fell for waned). It was too easy for me to hurt her feelings, and I increasingly began to feel like I was walking on eggshells around her. She impulsively got a tattoo, and I noticed an infrequent but existing pattern of general impulsivity. She told me she loved me 10-25 times per day, which was a little weird if sweet.

A lot of this stuff I liked at first; my ego was relishing the feeling of being the One-Up in the relationship, and these yellow flags didn't change the fact she was a knockout or that we had more chemistry than Walter White. Not to mention the SEX (I would sometimes cum in her so hard that'd I'd be high as a kite, dizzy, and slurring my words for 30 minutes after!) But I began to realize she was starting to see me as unattainable. She also began badgering me to accommodate her sensitivity and anxiety.

So what did I do? I began tempering myself around her. I love to affectionately tease girls (and admittedly probably go a little overboard), so I dialed that back. I conditioned myself to try to mirror her affection towards me (Mirror Minus One of course, can't give up my precious control!). I minimized my sex/girl stories and humor (that I use to reinforce the frame that I am the prize). I started seeing her more (COVID did NOT help here, she had to go back home to her parents, so the best way to see her was have her come in town for a week or so at a time, then a week or so off). Keep in mind, this was my first serious relationship, and I thought what I was doing was natural and necessary to sustaining things, transitioning from lover to provider.

Yet our strong foundation continued to erode. The tweaks I'd make would work for a time but then not be enough. Her demands for how I treat her and how I act around her increased. The sex started dropping off. I knew relationships cool off after an initial honeymoon period, but was it really supposed to be this pronounced? I began to question my ability to even be in a relationship - clearly I was too much of an arrogant bastard to give a girl enough security in a relationship for anything sustainable.

Shelving that idea, I tried everything else: being solely the cocky stud again, being solely the loving partner, being different balances of both, adding some indifference to the mix, throwing myself into other pursuits (like the gym, or playing videogames with my friend, and eventually my job). I got her a promise ring to give her feelings of security, and even told her I’d move in with her and someday marry her. Yet the relationship kept deteriorating. Despite this, I became further convinced if I could just fix things and get that perfect balance between making her feel out of control and affirming my love to her, she'd be mine indefinitely.


Breakup/Aftermath
A black cloud hanging over our relationship for the last half of it was the slow demise of my girlfriend's grandmother. This poor woman had a rare muscular disease that absolutely crippled her in every way, but rather than let her naturally expire, the family did everything in their power to prolong this woman's life (and suffering). How fucking pathetic the fear of death can make us mortals... This, along with the mass hysteria surrounding the dread disease of COVID served to undermine my girlfriend's happiness, and I often got the brunt of it. My girlfriend had supported me through the death of my own grandfather, so I felt obligated to return the favor, but frankly I could not wait for this grandmother of hers to perish, so that everyone, including the grandmother but especially my girlfriend, could stop suffering and move on. It dragged on for 1.5 years, the grandmother looking like an emaciated corpse through the entirety of it. Then her husband, my girlfriend's grandfather, fell, broke his neck, and died, and I knew the end was near. I also knew, either my girlfriend and I would emerge from the loss closer than ever, or that in the turmoil my girlfriend would sever things for good (or at least for awhile).

I was not my best self at the end of our relationship. Once a demigod in the gym, able to bench press 4 plates and max out every machine for reps, I let a shoulder injury and the fatigue from working so hard at my job keep me out of the gym for 6 months, and had kept up my same diet during this period, resulting in me getting fat. Work was an upward struggle, which is to be expected for a young salesman building his book, but not the best timing there and it affected my psyche. I was also pissed at the world for a number of factors (the delusions of religion, COVID/the despicable sensationalist media, the rampant feminization of my fellow men, the animosity towards the white male). So I shouldn't have been so surprised that when the grandmother finally died, my girlfriend retreated into herself and broke up with me at the first hint of us clashing. To make matters more frustrating, I was in another state for the holidays when she did it, and lacked the proximity I usually had to turn things around.

I tried to get her back. Much like my strategies while in the relationship, I threw a number of differing calculated angles at her, and nearly did win her back... but then I came to my senses, accepted the foundation of our relationship was irreparably crippled, and that if I had any sense of self-respect I had to move on. I spent the next month questioning love: wondering what I could possibly do different next time, doubting I'd ever have such a strong connection again, despairing that I was attracted to the wrong type of girl and may be doomed to either be unfulfilled with a normal girl (girls) or in frequent strife with a girl like my now ex.

And then I came across Chase's article on dating girls with Borderline Personality Disorder and their mutual attraction with men with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and things began to make sense. (https://www.girlschase.com/article/...rderline-personality-disorder-you-must-escape)


Narcissism/What Now?
My ex-girlfriend is not an extreme borderline. Nor am I an extreme narcissist (I hope!). We wouldn't have made it 3 years if we were. But we both have a LOT of the symptoms of each respectively.

You likely picked up on some of these while reading about my girlfriend, but here are her symptoms:

• love-bombing (the constant “I love you”s)
• closeness/neediness/flattery
• low self-worth (often afraid I’d leave her, or was cheating on her, or that I didn’t really love her)
• masochistic (all girls like being choked, but THIS girl...)
• sensitivity/temper
• impulsiveness (partially how we got together, which was on Tinder. She had 5 lovers before me, 4 of which were casual)
• turned on me after I reciprocated her love and promised her commitment (borderlines don’t feel worthy of love, so if you love them you must be low value)
• I didn't mention this, but she has an absentee loser dad who is ridiculously self-absorbed

Now for my self-prognosis. I’ll start with my background. My mother (and my paternal grandmother) both show many symptoms of BPD:

• quick temper
• extreme sensitivity
• history of impulsive, chaotic decisions
• splitting (black and white judgements of others, often but not always going back and forth)
• a neglectful father (my grandma’s dad was a WWII war hero and then business magnate and was always away especially in formative years, my mother’s dad had 6 other kids to attend to, and was hesitant to attach to my mom after the child born before her died shortly after birth; he was also a sociopathic bastard)
• severe abandonment issues

My dad is not a textbook narcissist, but has a need to be an authority, has a stratospheric opinion of himself in certain areas, and after not having much self-esteem in his twenties discovered his intellect and was very cocky during my formative years (though sense has mellowed out). The only type of man that could have put up with my mother for so long is at least a little narcissistic. I also suspect borderline mothers produce narcissistic sons.

I was the firstborn, and an only child for 6 years. I was absolutely doted on by my mother. My father also had grand plans for me, and praised me for my intelligence and athletic ability (which I have to say was somewhat deserved, after all not many people can say they consistently score in the top 99% or even 99.9% on various intelligence tests, or put up huge numbers in the gym without taking steroids; I have exceptional genes for the most part).

I was also heavily punished when I’d screw up (and even when I wouldn’t) and had ALL my interests picked for me. Growing up, my sense of self was constantly being accosted by my parents and their visions for me. It thus became my most valued possession, and my greatest fear is to be controlled (likely why I despise religion, the increasingly authoritarian state, the ignorance of the masses- these things all suck, but also shouldn’t affect my emotions to the extent they do).

I have always had this struggle of living up to this ideal paragon of myself. I thought everyone else goes through this too, and maybe they do, but it is the defining trait of a narcissist and much more pronounced in one than in normal folk. I’m so deep into my narcissistic fantasies that my ultimate mission in life is to become an immortal, dictator-like being (albeit a very benevolent one)!

Part of living up to my ideal self is dating a near-perfect girl who is also a near-perfect mate, and thus I was extremely vulnerable to a borderline, who was able to pass my initial valuation tests and then doted on me and followed my lead whole-heartedly giving me the control I crave (for a time anyway). Past this point I felt a huge responsibility to preserve the relationship and manage my partner's needs ( a common trap of NPD).

—————————

I do not want to be doomed to my parent’s fate, and I cannot allow my future children to go through what I did growing up. I want to be truly confident, not just have and draw my esteem from this grand vision of my potential self that is superior to everything but also so daunting to achieve and off-putting to others that see behind my veil of charisma.

At the same time, I have sampled the forbidden fruit that is the intense emotional bond of the narcissist and the borderline. My desire for an epic love is so central to me...

I ask: Do you agree that I likely have some degree of NPD? Is narcissism something that can be cured? Is it worth curing? Is it too late for me, having experienced the highs of a codependent relationship?

Thank you for reading.

 

[Alpha13SC]

Hi,

I was reading your post and it was like a vivid memory of my past and first real relationship. I also have some narcisistic traits, and this desire of being the best in every area. The need for training and going to gym and improving my looks is always there.

I observed that having strong values(integrity, honesty, etc) helps much more to become a better man, than just being a person nobody will want in their presence after some time, because I meet a guy with so many NPD traits that ass-kissing every teacher I ve know just to get a better image for himself and it was disgusting.

I believe that going on this path, as a seducer, to say, it will always have attached a degree of NPD. The simple fact of going to gym is increasing this very much, adding the fact that we're trying to improve our fundamentals always, trying our best and so on develop this thing. Also, almost every powerful man I ve met personally, they all are like that. So I just accept it and enjoy it.

I saw some BPD at my mom as well. And my dad pushed my limits always and challenged me to become better and better. So I think it's this unconscious desire inspired by them to always struggle to push limits. This is seen in many movies as well, where the bad guy has a weird relationship with his father especially (ex. Never back down, the blonde guy, I hope I remember correctly)

Do you agree that I likely have some degree of NPD?

IMO yes, but it's kinda healthy in this world. I ve won much from it and also suffer from it as well. I think it depends on core values of that person.

Is narcissism something that can be cured? Is it worth curing?

I m not interested in this kind of thing since I can control it. For example, sometimes I tend to lead the discussion more on myself and my life and what I do and so on, but as long as I m aware of it, I can control it.

Is it too late for me, having experienced the highs of a codependent relationship?

My ltr of almost 2 years ended 6 months ago. She was quite impulsive, love bombing and almost everything you said there. I ve bedded some girls after her. I ll be honest, got some who in a way had a better body, but the sex wasn't the same. There were times when I was with a girl and didn't had an erection, even if she was there, naked, in front of me, and I was thinking somewhere else.

That thing somehow dissapeared. Didn't find yet that lust which was between us, that chemistry. But I enjoy a feminine presence and I m passionate about going out and meeting girls, so I ll do it.

Quite a few things to point:
1. That love bombing is more common than you think, I ve observed it even in the girls who were not so BPD.
2. Quick temper. I think that is also subjective. In my country, there are some regions where people are really like that. She was impulsive and had a quick temper, but also, now I m dating a girl from the same area and have the same traits. Here, people from x talk more, people from y are more slow, it's a cultural thing, like how russian like to drink vodka.
3. Holy shit how many people have divorced parents. I thought there are just a few, but a lot of my friends have them and also the girls I m meeting. I m coming from a country side where things there are different, but as far as I see, people from urban cities have a tendency to just split up after some years.

I don't know if this is the reply you needed, but I wanted to share my experience as well.

 

[topcat]

Hey bro,

first off, a narcissist you may be, but NPD you certainly do not have (these things are different).
I have a family member that ‘suffers’ from NPD and let me tell you, it is it’s own breed of crazy.
Self awareness is radically absent in these types, something you clearly have, given it’s obvious presence in your post..

I also have narcissistic traits and lean dark-triad. My longest ‘relationship’ was also with one of these “toxic” cluster-b types, and i find most other girls pail in comparison when it comes to stimulation, attraction and compatibility in a ‘relationship’.

Where we differ is that I saw early on her inability to accept good things (auto-investment, affection without meeting previous demands etc.) and so inferred from this that commitment would be the death knell to our situationship and kill the boatloads of affection and adoration i was receiving from her. There was no breakup, we simply drifted apart when she moved countries and i refused to visit her without greater investment on her part. Ultimately she didn’t invest what i needed her to to feel confident that she would remain greatful and compliant over my visit, so i let her go..
Rather leave her longing for me than end things with her disgusted (and me disgusted with myself).

Your choice to be the ‘good guy’, to be a good reassuring partner in your relationship, is what killed it. You should’ve fed her reassurance in scraps. Viewed her cries for comfort with overt skepticism, used closeness as a reward for her good behaviour. Sex also. Giving her the relationship she needed according to her nature, not the one she wanted. Righteously..

To some, from the outside looking in, such a dynamic seems horrific, but really for a narcissist/sociopath and a cluster b woman, it is the only route to a mutually ‘happy’ relationship, where attraction remains to the end. This is my belief anyway.

The alternatives being finding a more healthy, moderate woman and risk bruising her, and boring yourself to death for lack of stimulation. Or give in to your cluster b’s demands for closeness and become bruised yourself, only to be tossed aside and discarded in disillusionment..
Or perhaps avoid close relationships entirely, or become ‘healthy’ yourself.
Whichever you deem easiest..

What does this mean going forward?

Well after the last ‘serious’ girl i find my self naturally going after girls that show similar traits to those she had (freaks, hoes, sluts, histrionics, hedonists - bad women). Good girls are cute, but not for me.. at least right now.
Terrible candidates for relationship consideration, but then again, are we any better?

Best..

 

[Alpha13SC]

Your choice to be the ‘good guy’, to be a good reassuring partner in your relationship, is what killed it. You should’ve fed her reassurance in scraps. Viewed her cries for comfort with overt skepticism, used closeness as a reward for her good behaviour. Sex also. Giving her the relationship she needed according to her nature, not the one she wanted. Righteously..

This one here. I can confirm. The moment when I took her calls for comfort seriously was the moment when I saw the relationship trembling.

The alternatives being finding a more healthy, moderate woman and risk bruising her, and boring yourself to death for lack of stimulation. Or give in to your cluster b’s demands for closeness and become bruised yourself, only to be tossed aside and discarded in disillusionment..
Or perhaps avoid close relationships entirely, or become ‘healthy’ yourself.
Whichever you deem easiest..

Also this.

Terrible candidates for relationship consideration, but then again, are we any better?

I would say is more enjoyable.

 

[DarkKnight]

• love-bombing (the constant “I love you”s)
• closeness/neediness/flattery
• low self-worth (often afraid I’d leave her, or was cheating on her, or that I didn’t really love her)
• masochistic (all girls like being choked, but THIS girl...)
• sensitivity/temper
• impulsiveness (partially how we got together, which was on Tinder. She had 5 lovers before me, 4 of which were casual)
• turned on me after I reciprocated her love and promised her commitment (borderlines don’t feel worthy of love, so if you love them you must be low value)
• I didn't mention this, but she has an absentee loser dad who is ridiculously self-absorbed

Yeah... pretty much all checks out. In my experience these girls are quite promiscious though... so I am not sure about her only having 5 lovers. Especially the love bombing, these girls can get you hooked fast by treating you like a king which vain dudes like us are susceptible to.

We both had nearly broken up with each other plenty of times before, but each time I couldn't bear losing her and pulled out all the stops to repair things (even if it was I who dumped her)

You were probably the party who did most of the repairing right? And I am willing to bet that the dumping on your part didn't come out of thin air.

nd these yellow flags didn't change the fact she was a knockout or that we had more chemistry than Walter White.

probably some red flags among them too.... if she is truly bpd.

Shelving that idea, I tried everything else: being solely the cocky stud again, being solely the loving partner, being different balances of both, adding some indifference to the mix, throwing myself into other pursuits (like the gym, or playing videogames with my friend, and eventually my job). I got her a promise ring to give her feelings of security, and even told her I’d move in with her and someday marry her. Yet the relationship kept deteriorating. Despite this, I became further convinced if I could just fix things and get that perfect balance between making her feel out of control and affirming my love to her, she'd be mine indefinitely.

This is some massive investment brother...

Part of living up to my ideal self is dating a near-perfect girl who is also a near-perfect mate, and thus I was extremely vulnerable to a borderline, who was able to pass my initial valuation tests and then doted on me and followed my lead whole-heartedly giving me the control I crave (for a time anyway). Past this point I felt a huge responsibility to preserve the relationship and manage my partner's needs ( a common trap of NPD).

Yeah... this happened sometime ago to me as well. BPD girl who came in as "perfect" but soon started to show cracks, despite this I did see the red flags as I have quite some experience with BPD already. I did catch semi-feelings for her, but pushed these away as my gut told me she is serious bad news. In hindsight I was very right. Chick was crazy seductive though and I noticed that she is very good at reading men and experienced. Which again brings me to your girl, are you sure that she only had 5 lovers? Did she lie a lot in general, have you been victim of gaslighting? Did she have a steady group of friends or did she keep meeting new people?

My take on this: I do not think you are narcissistic at all. Just a guy who puts a lot of pressure on himself, you are probably a builder as well so your default is repairing things. People with bpd tend to break things down.... You become the giver, they become the taker. Problem with bpd girls is that you start to question your own sanity as you are starting to doubt yourself right now. Did this ever happen to you before you met this girl? In past posts you came across as quite levelheaded. My suspicion is that you are off balance due to her toxicity. You just need some distance with her and not identify with her toxic behavior which is easy to do because you are emotionally affiliated still. These bpd chicks can just break down any other sane guy... I am surprised you survived for three years. Must have been a rollercoaster.

ps. all this is under the assumption that she really is bpd.

Addition: I suspect that you are a very intelligent and logical dude.. this is a common pitfall for high intelligence people.. They tend to deny their gut feeling and rely on logic. Which is a great recipe for some good old gaslighting. This was a good lesson for me too when I had encountered my first bpd girl.

 

[Skills]

Hi everyone. Once I was more prolific on here, but even these past few years while in my relationship I have remained an avid reader if not poster. It is good to be fully back!

This post will go over my first serious relationship, while exploring the natural affinity of the male narcissist and female borderline, and will conclude with me asking how to proceed from here. The recap goes over many telling signs of NPD/BPD but is a bit long, so you may want to skip to the end.


Relationship Recap
About two months ago, my girlfriend of 3 years and I finally ended things for good. We both had nearly broken up with each other plenty of times before, but each time I couldn't bear losing her and pulled out all the stops to repair things (even if it was I who dumped her). After all, despite some faults this girl fascinated me and adored me and filled a big void in me, how could I throw that away?

Our relationship began so blissfully. For the first time in my life, I had a girl completely under my thrall that I saw as a worthy counterpart to my ideal self. She was so fascinating:
- 5'3" with BIG, perfectly shaped tits and a tight waist (the definition of Busty/Petite)
- Gorgeous face that even reminded me of the girl I was obsessed with in high school
- Demure/excited vibe that I go nuts for
- This spunky/needy dichotomy that challenged me enough to keep my interest but then rewarded me with excessive doses of love, affection, and dependency
- Practically unlimited and mind-blowing sex (think our record was 7 sessions in one day)

I was hooked. This was the type of relationship I had dreamed of, had consciously visualized. This was one of two potential endgames I was happy with concerning my journey with women (the other endgame is becoming the guy with a 100-200+ laycount, children with multiple women of outstanding genetic disposition, always has a harem, experiences love but remains in control and not entirely committed).

As the relationship went on I began to see warning signs. My girlfriend alluded to having a dark, depressive, anxious side to her personality and was terrified I would someday see it (and like Jekyll and Hyde, her dark side did rear its ugly head and waxed while the girl I fell for waned). It was too easy for me to hurt her feelings, and I increasingly began to feel like I was walking on eggshells around her. She impulsively got a tattoo, and I noticed an infrequent but existing pattern of general impulsivity. She told me she loved me 10-25 times per day, which was a little weird if sweet.

A lot of this stuff I liked at first; my ego was relishing the feeling of being the One-Up in the relationship, and these yellow flags didn't change the fact she was a knockout or that we had more chemistry than Walter White. Not to mention the SEX (I would sometimes cum in her so hard that'd I'd be high as a kite, dizzy, and slurring my words for 30 minutes after!) But I began to realize she was starting to see me as unattainable. She also began badgering me to accommodate her sensitivity and anxiety.

So what did I do? I began tempering myself around her. I love to affectionately tease girls (and admittedly probably go a little overboard), so I dialed that back. I conditioned myself to try to mirror her affection towards me (Mirror Minus One of course, can't give up my precious control!). I minimized my sex/girl stories and humor (that I use to reinforce the frame that I am the prize). I started seeing her more (COVID did NOT help here, she had to go back home to her parents, so the best way to see her was have her come in town for a week or so at a time, then a week or so off). Keep in mind, this was my first serious relationship, and I thought what I was doing was natural and necessary to sustaining things, transitioning from lover to provider.

Yet our strong foundation continued to erode. The tweaks I'd make would work for a time but then not be enough. Her demands for how I treat her and how I act around her increased. The sex started dropping off. I knew relationships cool off after an initial honeymoon period, but was it really supposed to be this pronounced? I began to question my ability to even be in a relationship - clearly I was too much of an arrogant bastard to give a girl enough security in a relationship for anything sustainable.

Shelving that idea, I tried everything else: being solely the cocky stud again, being solely the loving partner, being different balances of both, adding some indifference to the mix, throwing myself into other pursuits (like the gym, or playing videogames with my friend, and eventually my job). I got her a promise ring to give her feelings of security, and even told her I’d move in with her and someday marry her. Yet the relationship kept deteriorating. Despite this, I became further convinced if I could just fix things and get that perfect balance between making her feel out of control and affirming my love to her, she'd be mine indefinitely.


Breakup/Aftermath
A black cloud hanging over our relationship for the last half of it was the slow demise of my girlfriend's grandmother. This poor woman had a rare muscular disease that absolutely crippled her in every way, but rather than let her naturally expire, the family did everything in their power to prolong this woman's life (and suffering). How fucking pathetic the fear of death can make us mortals... This, along with the mass hysteria surrounding the dread disease of COVID served to undermine my girlfriend's happiness, and I often got the brunt of it. My girlfriend had supported me through the death of my own grandfather, so I felt obligated to return the favor, but frankly I could not wait for this grandmother of hers to perish, so that everyone, including the grandmother but especially my girlfriend, could stop suffering and move on. It dragged on for 1.5 years, the grandmother looking like an emaciated corpse through the entirety of it. Then her husband, my girlfriend's grandfather, fell, broke his neck, and died, and I knew the end was near. I also knew, either my girlfriend and I would emerge from the loss closer than ever, or that in the turmoil my girlfriend would sever things for good (or at least for awhile).

I was not my best self at the end of our relationship. Once a demigod in the gym, able to bench press 4 plates and max out every machine for reps, I let a shoulder injury and the fatigue from working so hard at my job keep me out of the gym for 6 months, and had kept up my same diet during this period, resulting in me getting fat. Work was an upward struggle, which is to be expected for a young salesman building his book, but not the best timing there and it affected my psyche. I was also pissed at the world for a number of factors (the delusions of religion, COVID/the despicable sensationalist media, the rampant feminization of my fellow men, the animosity towards the white male). So I shouldn't have been so surprised that when the grandmother finally died, my girlfriend retreated into herself and broke up with me at the first hint of us clashing. To make matters more frustrating, I was in another state for the holidays when she did it, and lacked the proximity I usually had to turn things around.

I tried to get her back. Much like my strategies while in the relationship, I threw a number of differing calculated angles at her, and nearly did win her back... but then I came to my senses, accepted the foundation of our relationship was irreparably crippled, and that if I had any sense of self-respect I had to move on. I spent the next month questioning love: wondering what I could possibly do different next time, doubting I'd ever have such a strong connection again, despairing that I was attracted to the wrong type of girl and may be doomed to either be unfulfilled with a normal girl (girls) or in frequent strife with a girl like my now ex.

And then I came across Chase's article on dating girls with Borderline Personality Disorder and their mutual attraction with men with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and things began to make sense. (https://www.girlschase.com/article/...rderline-personality-disorder-you-must-escape)


Narcissism/What Now?
My ex-girlfriend is not an extreme borderline. Nor am I an extreme narcissist (I hope!). We wouldn't have made it 3 years if we were. But we both have a LOT of the symptoms of each respectively.

You likely picked up on some of these while reading about my girlfriend, but here are her symptoms:

• love-bombing (the constant “I love you”s)
• closeness/neediness/flattery
• low self-worth (often afraid I’d leave her, or was cheating on her, or that I didn’t really love her)
• masochistic (all girls like being choked, but THIS girl...)
• sensitivity/temper
• impulsiveness (partially how we got together, which was on Tinder. She had 5 lovers before me, 4 of which were casual)
• turned on me after I reciprocated her love and promised her commitment (borderlines don’t feel worthy of love, so if you love them you must be low value)
• I didn't mention this, but she has an absentee loser dad who is ridiculously self-absorbed

Now for my self-prognosis. I’ll start with my background. My mother (and my paternal grandmother) both show many symptoms of BPD:

• quick temper
• extreme sensitivity
• history of impulsive, chaotic decisions
• splitting (black and white judgements of others, often but not always going back and forth)
• a neglectful father (my grandma’s dad was a WWII war hero and then business magnate and was always away especially in formative years, my mother’s dad had 6 other kids to attend to, and was hesitant to attach to my mom after the child born before her died shortly after birth; he was also a sociopathic bastard)
• severe abandonment issues

My dad is not a textbook narcissist, but has a need to be an authority, has a stratospheric opinion of himself in certain areas, and after not having much self-esteem in his twenties discovered his intellect and was very cocky during my formative years (though sense has mellowed out). The only type of man that could have put up with my mother for so long is at least a little narcissistic. I also suspect borderline mothers produce narcissistic sons.

I was the firstborn, and an only child for 6 years. I was absolutely doted on by my mother. My father also had grand plans for me, and praised me for my intelligence and athletic ability (which I have to say was somewhat deserved, after all not many people can say they consistently score in the top 99% or even 99.9% on various intelligence tests, or put up huge numbers in the gym without taking steroids; I have exceptional genes for the most part).

I was also heavily punished when I’d screw up (and even when I wouldn’t) and had ALL my interests picked for me. Growing up, my sense of self was constantly being accosted by my parents and their visions for me. It thus became my most valued possession, and my greatest fear is to be controlled (likely why I despise religion, the increasingly authoritarian state, the ignorance of the masses- these things all suck, but also shouldn’t affect my emotions to the extent they do).

I have always had this struggle of living up to this ideal paragon of myself. I thought everyone else goes through this too, and maybe they do, but it is the defining trait of a narcissist and much more pronounced in one than in normal folk. I’m so deep into my narcissistic fantasies that my ultimate mission in life is to become an immortal, dictator-like being (albeit a very benevolent one)!

Part of living up to my ideal self is dating a near-perfect girl who is also a near-perfect mate, and thus I was extremely vulnerable to a borderline, who was able to pass my initial valuation tests and then doted on me and followed my lead whole-heartedly giving me the control I crave (for a time anyway). Past this point I felt a huge responsibility to preserve the relationship and manage my partner's needs ( a common trap of NPD).

—————————

I do not want to be doomed to my parent’s fate, and I cannot allow my future children to go through what I did growing up. I want to be truly confident, not just have and draw my esteem from this grand vision of my potential self that is superior to everything but also so daunting to achieve and off-putting to others that see behind my veil of charisma.

At the same time, I have sampled the forbidden fruit that is the intense emotional bond of the narcissist and the borderline. My desire for an epic love is so central to me...

I ask: Do you agree that I likely have some degree of NPD? Is narcissism something that can be cured? Is it worth curing? Is it too late for me, having experienced the highs of a codependent relationship?

Thank you for reading.

^ this is the typical "post break up post" were you are looking for all of her faults and nitpicking all of your faults, seen many of the above through the years... And is ok i call it part of the break up healing process, this typical block of text, amateurs' psychologist diagnosing.... Take your time and read this post and watch the video:

Break Ups - Break up dynamics for secret society members (seducers, women, gays)

Most break up posts, blogs, videos are mainly accurate but from a normal person view, not from a secret society (specially seducer/player) perspective. What is the difference you may ask? A secret society member is able to access sexual partners fairly quick and usually do not get onitis...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Ambiance]

Thank you all for your replies. Before I reply to each of you, I want to clarify that my ex was never an extreme borderline and may not even have been diagnosable. I also want to posit that I think the stressors of the pandemic and her grandma taking a sharp turn for the worse really messed with her and caused her to devolve from a milder borderline to a more moderate one. Maybe I was too dramatic with my first post (I have a penchant for drama)!

@Alpha13SC
Thank you sharing your own experience. You've reminded me of a lot of the advantages of narcissism.

2. Quick temper. I think that is also subjective. In my country, there are some regions where people are really like that. She was impulsive and had a quick temper, but also, now I m dating a girl from the same area and have the same traits. Here, people from x talk more, people from y are more slow, it's a cultural thing, like how russian like to drink vodka.

My ex is part hispanic, this likely factored into her temper! She was also a teenager half of our relationship, what was I expecting? I have a new rule going forward: no seriously dating women 22 and under, and ideally 25 and under.

(btw, that's a sick bike in your profile pic!)

@topcat

first off, a narcissist you may be, but NPD you certainly do not have (these things are different).
I have a family member that ‘suffers’ from NPD and let me tell you, it is it’s own breed of crazy.
Self awareness is radically absent in these types, something you clearly have, given it’s obvious presence in your post..

Point well taken about NPD being much more extreme. I think I was jumping to conclusions in labeling myself NPD or labeling my girlfriend BPD. While I certainly have strong narcissistic tendencies, and she certainly has strong borderline tendencies, we are both still a ways off from those who have cases extreme enough to have been diagnosed and their lives are in chaos because of it. Myself and my ex only start getting bad when significant stressors are in our life, during good times we are fairly normal.

Your choice to be the ‘good guy’, to be a good reassuring partner in your relationship, is what killed it. You should’ve fed her reassurance in scraps. Viewed her cries for comfort with overt skepticism, used closeness as a reward for her good behaviour. Sex also. Giving her the relationship she needed according to her nature, not the one she wanted. Righteously..

To some, from the outside looking in, such a dynamic seems horrific, but really for a narcissist/sociopath and a cluster b woman, it is the only route to a mutually ‘happy’ relationship, where attraction remains to the end. This is my belief anyway.

The alternatives being finding a more healthy, moderate woman and risk bruising her, and boring yourself to death for lack of stimulation. Or give in to your cluster b’s demands for closeness and become bruised yourself, only to be tossed aside and discarded in disillusionment..
Or perhaps avoid close relationships entirely, or become ‘healthy’ yourself.
Whichever you deem easiest..

As she became more borderline as the relationship went on, I think you are right that I should have responded through exerting my control more. I had so much power over her for the first half of the relationship, in part due to my narcissism, and that is when things were best...

Come to think of it, I started off the relationship likely more narcissistic than she was borderline (I was quite a fuckboy back then!), but my narcissism went down while her borderline-ness went up, so the roles flipped. I never should have started rewarding her with love and attention preemptively, and made her keep working for it. I should have accepted that if not having very much control over me was too much for her, that the relationship needed to end and I'd be better off with a more confident woman and she with a less willful man.

While I have developed more of an appreciation for "healthy" women, I'm confident I can keep dating milder borderlines too, and just remember to be uncompromising about giving commitment that hasn't been earned. I won't be dating moderate borderlines, and should a mild borderline start to devolve into a moderate or extreme borderline, I'll have to end it. I need to now go after absolute abundance so I'll be ready if it ever comes to that.

I also want to develop more "quiet" confidence so I do better with normal girls. The way to do this is get to a high level at various skills. For instance, I am quite genuinely confident in my strength, having worked on it the gym for practically a decade. The narcissist's idealized vision of self is great if kept in the background with the focus on developing skills in the here and now.

@DarkKnight

You were probably the party who did most of the repairing right? And I am willing to bet that the dumping on your part didn't come out of thin air.

It was definitely more me than her. Then again, she is over two years younger than me, and I am a self-improving, introspective individual. My fault for dating someone not so improvement oriented or mature.

probably some red flags among them too.... if she is truly bpd.

There were signs the first year and a half or so, but it wasn't until her grandma made a sharp decline and the world went to shit with COVID that her Borderline tendencies became much more pronounced. I'd call her a mild borderline (which I LOVE dating) the first half of our relationship, and she gradually devolved into a moderate borderline the second half.

Chick was crazy seductive though and I noticed that she is very good at reading men and experienced. Which again brings me to your girl, are you sure that she only had 5 lovers?

I'm positive she had 5 lovers before me. She was a definitive Curious/Inquisitive girl (https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-many-partners-has-your-girlfriend-had-find-out-here). She was not confident flirting with me, not deliberately seductive at all, and not very experienced in bed. She was eager to learn though! I'm also very good at acting nonjudgmental and knowing when is the best time to extract information, and I never noticed any inconsistencies in her stories.

That said, I met this girl she was 18 years old, and 4 of her lovers came before college... kind of a lot for having barely started college. I was focusing on just the number too much and did not factor her age in enough when vetting her for the girlfriend role. It would not surprise me if she's already taken multiple lovers since breaking up with me.

These bpd chicks can just break down any other sane guy... I am surprised you survived for three years. Must have been a rollercoaster.

The first half of the relationship was quite easy with just a few sporadic episodes. As for the second half... I'm quite stubborn, and do not have absolute abundance. I did not want to give up on the girl I fell in love with, and in my pride was convinced I could fix her eventually. Maybe if I had driven to her grandma's house a year ago and pulled the plug, then gotten my girlfriend through the grieving stage, I would have!

 

[Ambiance]

^ this is the typical "post break up post" were you are looking for all of her faults and nitpicking all of your faults, seen many of the above through the years... And is ok i call it part of the break up healing process, this typical block of text, amateurs' psychologist diagnosing.... Take your time and read this post and watch the video:

Break Ups - Break up dynamics for secret society members (seducers, women, gays)

Most break up posts, blogs, videos are mainly accurate but from a normal person view, not from a secret society (specially seducer/player) perspective. What is the difference you may ask? A secret society member is able to access sexual partners fairly quick and usually do not get onitis...

www.skilledseducer.com

Hey Skills, thank you for linking that, was a fantastic, comprehensive read i ended up bookmarking for future reference. The part where you go over what men do when they break up was SO relatable and true.

You're probably right about the amateurish nature of my diagnosing in my initial post, I was perhaps too harsh to myself and my ex. I now see myself as a mild-moderate narcissist, probably nothing worth diagnosing. I see my ex as having been a mild borderline that degenerated into a moderate one due to the aggravation of her grandparents' demise and overall state of the world right now (could never get her to stop digesting the retarded mainstream propaganda media).

I also let us down by putting on weight and not having my financial situation figured out the first half of 2021. And like you said in the post, I tried acting more normal and tempering my player side as a hail mary, which hurt attraction even more.

Losing her is so painful, but I know it is probably for the best. Her family sucked; I wouldn't have wanted my future kids to have them as relatives. She was not self-improvement oriented enough. And I haven't done nearly all I want to do as an uncommitted seducer (have consistent threesomes, a consistent harem, explore night life more, master day game).

I will not let myself go with the next girl, be it physically, financially, or through my frame. No matter how much a girl loves me.

I will also be following the advice you gave on what to do as a seducer post-breakup.

 

[Alpha13SC]

(btw, that's a sick bike in your profile pic!)

Haha, thanks. I have a sick scar too

(could never get her to stop digesting the retarded mainstream propaganda media).

This is so damn relatable, dafuq. Was receiving a lot of political things I didn't give a fuck.

I think @Skills is right. Post break up post. If you're searching through my posts, u ll find mine, a few months ago, actually my first one here, on forum and was redirected to break up dynamics as well haha.

I find it funny how many similarities are here.

I m sure you'll be good and recover from this faster than you think.

 

[Chase]

@Ambiance,

Sorry to hear you had a rough time of it coming out of the relationship. Hope you're ready to start bouncing back hard

Sounds like she could be borderline. Diagnosing this stuff without an actual psychologist involved is tricky except in the extreme cases. A lot of normal female behavior can look borderline... one way I heard it put once was that "autism is just normal male behavior taken to extremes; borderline is just normal female behavior taken to extremes."

You might also want to look into adult female ADD if trying to understand this ex. ADD women also have meltdowns and impulsivity and mood swings and are very opinionated, but they tend not to have the self-destructive streak borderlines do. Borderlines also tend to be very perceptive when it comes to understanding social things, while women with ADD tend to be rather off in their own worlds and oblivious to things you are trying to communicate to them.

You don't strike me as remotely NPD. A lot of just general confidence / self-focus gets classed as "narcissism" when taking an online quiz... even though the quiz taker may not be a DSM 'narcissist' at all. If you were one of those you wouldn't be writing a self-analytical post like this; instead it would be a massive giant thread about what a complete bitch your ex was and how everything that happened was entirely her fault (you, meanwhile, having been an absolute saint).

I have taken those online tests and had them declare I was "Very Narcissistic", but then went and read the behaviors and personality traits of people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and it didn't match at all. I had a former-friend-turned-legal-opponent write my lawyer once a long time ago to tell him he was worried for his safety because I was a 'confirmed narcissist' and that if the lawsuit went south for me my lawyer was at risk of me killing him in a 'narcissistic rage'... my lawyer just laughed it off... the whole thing was based on me taking some 40-question online quiz.

So, you know, these personality things can be pretty helpful for understanding that there are people out there with very different personality traits than yours, who see the world in a very different way than you do... but you never want to get overly stuck on labels at the same time either.

Chase

 

[Alpha13SC]

Sounds like she could be borderline. Diagnosing this stuff without an actual psychologist involved is tricky except in the extreme cases. A lot of normal female behavior can look borderline... one way I heard it put once was that "autism is just normal male behavior taken to extremes; borderline is just normal female behavior taken to extremes."

This is interesting, because this is similar to some conclusions of mine. Here I ve always heard that "all women are crazy". So after analyzing females behavior, I realized that almost everyone of them has similar traits like impulsiveness, some stalking(social media just makes it easier) and other things, of course, different degrees. Regardless the male behavior, what I could say is that whenever I have periods of intense work(I work as a software developer), I don't feel the same need to talk, or even engage in social activities compared to the period when I was working as a salesman/event organizer/tutor. Everything felt more rational, without much drive towards understanding others. At one point got obsessed with IQ tests and puzzles, and was asking myself if this is some kind of autistic symptoms.

You might also want to look into adult female ADD if trying to understand this ex. ADD women also have meltdowns and impulsivity and mood swings and are very opinionated, but they tend not to have the self-destructive streak borderlines do. Borderlines also tend to be very perceptive when it comes to understanding social things, while women with ADD tend to be rather off in their own worlds and oblivious to things you are trying to communicate to them.

ADD explains a whole new world to me actually. Thank you.

 

[Ambiance]

@Ambiance,

Sorry to hear you had a rough time of it coming out of the relationship. Hope you're ready to start bouncing back hard

Sounds like she could be borderline. Diagnosing this stuff without an actual psychologist involved is tricky except in the extreme cases. A lot of normal female behavior can look borderline... one way I heard it put once was that "autism is just normal male behavior taken to extremes; borderline is just normal female behavior taken to extremes."

You might also want to look into adult female ADD if trying to understand this ex. ADD women also have meltdowns and impulsivity and mood swings and are very opinionated, but they tend not to have the self-destructive streak borderlines do. Borderlines also tend to be very perceptive when it comes to understanding social things, while women with ADD tend to be rather off in their own worlds and oblivious to things you are trying to communicate to them.

You don't strike me as remotely NPD. A lot of just general confidence / self-focus gets classed as "narcissism" when taking an online quiz... even though the quiz taker may not be a DSM 'narcissist' at all. If you were one of those you wouldn't be writing a self-analytical post like this; instead it would be a massive giant thread about what a complete bitch your ex was and how everything that happened was entirely her fault (you, meanwhile, having been an absolute saint).

I have taken those online tests and had them declare I was "Very Narcissistic", but then went and read the behaviors and personality traits of people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and it didn't match at all. I had a former-friend-turned-legal-opponent write my lawyer once a long time ago to tell him he was worried for his safety because I was a 'confirmed narcissist' and that if the lawsuit went south for me my lawyer was at risk of me killing him in a 'narcissistic rage'... my lawyer just laughed it off... the whole thing was based on me taking some 40-question online quiz.

So, you know, these personality things can be pretty helpful for understanding that there are people out there with very different personality traits than yours, who see the world in a very different way than you do... but you never want to get overly stuck on labels at the same time either.

Chase

Thanks for your thoughtful response Chase Got my start bouncing back last night with a sexy 19 year old Latina that works at my gym (https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/doom.25917/), and it has left me hungry for much, much more!

Definitely went a little overboard with the self-diagnosis. I may be an arrogant bastard at times, but you're right, there is still quite a gulf between that and having diagnosable NPD. Like your analogy of autism:masculinity::borderline:femininity.

Female ADD is an interesting idea... the way you describe it fits my ex very well. ADD is such a nebulous topic to research unfortunately. So many variants with entirely different symptoms, and often the research behind it is questionable... My dad is convinced he has a special variant of ADD, and has poured hundreds of hours into reading various semi or even pseudo scientific books on ADD, some of which I've read and not been too impressed with. He has also tried to convince me that I have it. Funny story: he had me take this ADD test where you have to pay constant attention to a screen for 45 minutes and perform simple tasks. If you get distracted, it is fairly easy to miss a queue, which the system flags, and if you miss enough it is suggested you likely have a variant of ADD. Well, not only did I pass the test, I didn't miss a single queue the entire 45 minutes, which the test moderator told me he had never seen done before. Definitely gave my dad a little crisis of identity when I told him about it LOL. Anyway, if you have any good resources on female ADD, I'd love to read them.