Casual/FWB FWB has started seeing other guys and I'm not sure how to deal with it. Feeling lost and confused.

[Beam]

Hi all, happy new year! Let's all make 2022 our best yet.

I have been seeing a woman for the last couple of months. We met on the street around the start of October when she was three months fresh out of an 11 and a half year relationship, which she had been in since she was 18. It took me a month to sleep with her – and I later found out that I am the second man she has ever slept with.

Since then, we have been seeing each other every three to four days, and have had sex every time. We are extremely attracted to each other. But, she doesn’t want to have kids and we don’t share any long term goals or interests (she doesn’t show any interest in any of the things I am interested in, not even in a supportive way) and so I didn’t want an exclusive relationship with her. We do click and enjoy each others company, sometimes 6 hours feels like 1, it goes by so fast.

Almost from the start, I told her that I was not looking for a relationship (read: I did not want exclusivity) and she followed my lead on this. But with a bit of confusion – her reference experiences are limited and she has only known monogamy. We non-verbally adopted a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy on talking about who else we were seeing, but this was largely one sided. I was the one still dating others, she was not. She admitted she was very uncomfortable about getting out there into the dating world again. It was working well up until a week ago.

Until a week ago she lived 5 minutes away from me, on her own. After initially trying to get her to mine (I live with housemates), we actually settled on me going to hers every time. I actually preferred this, for the privacy and also, it was nice having our “love bubble” free from the outside world and my housemates.

But last week, she moved and now lives 30 minutes away. We both agreed me going to hers every time probably won’t work anymore, and so she came to mine for the first time. This is where things started taking a bit of a turn.

In my room, she saw my vision board, which has images of everything I want to achieve in life (fitness, music, women). There are quite sexual images of women there (not nude but in quite provocative positions, with handcuffs etc) showing the side of my life that I want to develop.

Going to sleep with her this time, I could tell something was different. She wasn’t comfortable, and stopped me. She confessed that she was uncomfortable not just about the vision board, but about other things I have said or done that have reminded her about other girls (such as going to the bathroom to message other girls – this only happened once) and talking about past experiences with women (even though sometimes she brought it up). She then told me that these sorts of relationships don’t tend to last long, and that it was a pattern of mine (I had told her about how similar arrangements I had had in the past lasted a few months), and that she was scared she was getting too caught up in one experience.

I knew she was trying to protect herself from future pain. She then told me that she wants to make an effort to change this, to keep this going as long as possible because she truly liked me (and I like her too), and that part of that would involve me being more careful about talking about other girls. In her own words, she wanted to protect the love bubble we had and didn’t want to be taken out of it by being reminded of other girls. I agreed that I would make more of an effort to do so, and we then had sex.

A few days later (two days ago) we met up again – I drove to hers 30 minutes away. She couldn’t do night as she had other plans (and said she had to leave at 6) so we hung out during the day. Had sex multiple times and were still laying in bed at 6:30, well past when she said she had to leave. I could tell she didn't want to leave, it was only when I said I should get going because I didn't want to make her late that she snapped out of it.

I was curious, so asked her who she was going to dinner with. She was evasive. I said “date?” and she said “yes”. She seemed very uncomfortable and then said she should have just said it was friends. She told me that after the conversation last time she realized that she couldn’t get too caught up, that it was the kick in the guts she needed to start dating again. Previously, she and I were in a bubble. I feel she got so comfortable with me that she wasn’t even looking to date others for a while. I feel she was putting it off because she was with me.

I played it cool, smiled and said I hoped she enjoyed it. Non exclusivity went both ways. We agreed to meet again tomorrow.

But on the drive home, it started hitting me that this could be the beginning of the end. I really actually like this girl. She is fiercely intelligent, my type physically (tall, athletic, pale brunette with a gorgeous face), super attracted and attached to me. This bubble over the last couple of months has been amazing and has put me at a sense of ease that I have not felt before. She has been warm, accommodating, understanding. An extremely direct communicator, calling me out multiple times.

The thing is, I don’t know what to do now. She is starting to see other guys. And I know that if things go well, I am going to be the one to go given the unconventional nature of our relationship.

I have accepted this. I know this is how it has to be. But, I want to know if there are any ways to minimize the inevitable pain that is coming.

One thing that would actually make me feel better is if she talked about the dates she went on. I would actually prefer this, because it would be less of a surprise if she was telling me about this guy for weeks and then they were deciding to be exclusive. I would prefer that to keeping our “love bubble” and then her growing more distant until suddenly, she admits the wants to end things. I don’t want surprises. Should I tell her this?

I’m not too experienced in this area, if any guys out there have been in a situation like this have advice I would love to hear it. Feeling very confused (and actually a little fearful) right now.

 

[Skills]

Hi all, happy new year! Let's all make 2022 our best yet.

I have been seeing a woman for the last couple of months. We met on the street around the start of October when she was three months fresh out of an 11 and a half year relationship, which she had been in since she was 18. It took me a month to sleep with her – and I later found out that I am the second man she has ever slept with.

Since then, we have been seeing each other every three to four days, and have had sex every time. We are extremely attracted to each other. But, she doesn’t want to have kids and we don’t share any long term goals or interests (she doesn’t show any interest in any of the things I am interested in, not even in a supportive way) and so I didn’t want an exclusive relationship with her. We do click and enjoy each others company, sometimes 6 hours feels like 1, it goes by so fast.

Almost from the start, I told her that I was not looking for a relationship (read: I did not want exclusivity) and she followed my lead on this. But with a bit of confusion – her reference experiences are limited and she has only known monogamy. We non-verbally adopted a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy on talking about who else we were seeing, but this was largely one sided. I was the one still dating others, she was not. She admitted she was very uncomfortable about getting out there into the dating world again. It was working well up until a week ago.

Until a week ago she lived 5 minutes away from me, on her own. After initially trying to get her to mine (I live with housemates), we actually settled on me going to hers every time. I actually preferred this, for the privacy and also, it was nice having our “love bubble” free from the outside world and my housemates.

But last week, she moved and now lives 30 minutes away. We both agreed me going to hers every time probably won’t work anymore, and so she came to mine for the first time. This is where things started taking a bit of a turn.

In my room, she saw my vision board, which has images of everything I want to achieve in life (fitness, music, women). There are quite sexual images of women there (not nude but in quite provocative positions, with handcuffs etc) showing the side of my life that I want to develop.

Going to sleep with her this time, I could tell something was different. She wasn’t comfortable, and stopped me. She confessed that she was uncomfortable not just about the vision board, but about other things I have said or done that have reminded her about other girls (such as going to the bathroom to message other girls – this only happened once) and talking about past experiences with women (even though sometimes she brought it up). She then told me that these sorts of relationships don’t tend to last long, and that it was a pattern of mine (I had told her about how similar arrangements I had had in the past lasted a few months), and that she was scared she was getting too caught up in one experience.

I knew she was trying to protect herself from future pain. She then told me that she wants to make an effort to change this, to keep this going as long as possible because she truly liked me (and I like her too), and that part of that would involve me being more careful about talking about other girls. In her own words, she wanted to protect the love bubble we had and didn’t want to be taken out of it by being reminded of other girls. I agreed that I would make more of an effort to do so, and we then had sex.

A few days later (two days ago) we met up again – I drove to hers 30 minutes away. She couldn’t do night as she had other plans (and said she had to leave at 6) so we hung out during the day. Had sex multiple times and were still laying in bed at 6:30, well past when she said she had to leave. I could tell she didn't want to leave, it was only when I said I should get going because I didn't want to make her late that she snapped out of it.

I was curious, so asked her who she was going to dinner with. She was evasive. I said “date?” and she said “yes”. She seemed very uncomfortable and then said she should have just said it was friends. She told me that after the conversation last time she realized that she couldn’t get too caught up, that it was the kick in the guts she needed to start dating again. Previously, she and I were in a bubble. I feel she got so comfortable with me that she wasn’t even looking to date others for a while. I feel she was putting it off because she was with me.

I played it cool, smiled and said I hoped she enjoyed it. Non exclusivity went both ways. We agreed to meet again tomorrow.

But on the drive home, it started hitting me that this could be the beginning of the end. I really actually like this girl. She is fiercely intelligent, my type physically (tall, athletic, pale brunette with a gorgeous face), super attracted and attached to me. This bubble over the last couple of months has been amazing and has put me at a sense of ease that I have not felt before. She has been warm, accommodating, understanding. An extremely direct communicator, calling me out multiple times.

The thing is, I don’t know what to do now. She is starting to see other guys. And I know that if things go well, I am going to be the one to go given the unconventional nature of our relationship.

I have accepted this. I know this is how it has to be. But, I want to know if there are any ways to minimize the inevitable pain that is coming.

One thing that would actually make me feel better is if she talked about the dates she went on. I would actually prefer this, because it would be less of a surprise if she was telling me about this guy for weeks and then they were deciding to be exclusive. I would prefer that to keeping our “love bubble” and then her growing more distant until suddenly, she admits the wants to end things. I don’t want surprises. Should I tell her this?

I’m not too experienced in this area, if any guys out there have been in a situation like this have advice I would love to hear it. Feeling very confused (and actually a little fearful) right now.

this is not a fwd this is defacto monogamy, since this is the only girl you got.... So what you really wanted is her and you, while you shop around and try to date other women... You had that for a bit, but now she is checking out cause she gave up on any long term possibility with you, usually fwb stick around cause they thing there is a chance with you, she does not see so she is checking out.... Since you feel her withdrawal you instinctively know you are losing her getting onitis.... buyers remorse.... Solution is either to upgrade her.... Or be out for good, since you really can not handle her being with other guys.... Or learn how to deal with her seeing other guys, just remember as soon as one of those guys fuck her 3 times and lock her in, you will be history...On the other hand this is not issue to achieve since as long as you remind cool and colective she will be reverting back to you, unless she reach a breaking type point.. this is the system you should have used

 

[windsofchange]

I’ve had a situation like this ; a fwb and I who were incredibly sexually compatible (felt like her pussy was made for my dick and vice versa); but we also had nothing in common and she was quite crazy.

We only fucked once a week but it went on for about 6 months and eventually she wanted stability of a monogamous relationship and went with the guy offering it.

Unfortunately sometimes you just have to accept that you may lose good ones; but you’ll find better ones as you keep improving.

Just don’t burn bridges on the way out like I sadly did.

 

[TomInHo]

Since then, we have been seeing each other every three to four days, and have had sex every time. We are extremely attracted to each other. But, she doesn’t want to have kids and we don’t share any long term goals or interests (she doesn’t show any interest in any of the things I am interested in, not even in a supportive way) and so I didn’t want an exclusive relationship with her. We do click and enjoy each others company, sometimes 6 hours feels like 1, it goes by so fast.

Casual relationships can be so much fun, but they can quickly turn sour if not managed properly

IMHO, that meet up frequency seems like a lot. Especially with a FWB that you have chemistry with. One of you was bound to start getting emotional/romantically attached.

If I have a FWB that I have romantic feelings for, I upgrade her to MLTR, to do more coupley stuff. But even then, I will only see her a maximum of once a week and may even skip a week every now and then.

In my room, she saw my vision board, which has images of everything I want to achieve in life (fitness, music, women). There are quite sexual images of women there (not nude but in quite provocative positions, with handcuffs etc) showing the side of my life that I want to develop.

Going to sleep with her this time, I could tell something was different. She wasn’t comfortable, and stopped me. She confessed that she was uncomfortable not just about the vision board, but about other things I have said or done that have reminded her about other girls (such as going to the bathroom to message other girls – this only happened once) and talking about past experiences with women (even though sometimes she brought it up). She then told me that these sorts of relationships don’t tend to last long, and that it was a pattern of mine (I had told her about how similar arrangements I had had in the past lasted a few months), and that she was scared she was getting too caught up in one experience.

I knew she was trying to protect herself from future pain. She then told me that she wants to make an effort to change this, to keep this going as long as possible because she truly liked me (and I like her too), and that part of that would involve me being more careful about talking about other girls. In her own words, she wanted to protect the love bubble we had and didn’t want to be taken out of it by being reminded of other girls. I agreed that I would make more of an effort to do so, and we then had sex.

This is tricky but you have to remember something...

She chose to be with you when you didn't want exclusivity. This means she is attracted to the @Beam that can get other women. It may seem counterintuitive, but you should never hide or be ashamed that you are attracted to other women, or that other women find you attractive

Women in relationships will always test to see how much mental control they have over you and your desires. And if they sense you're becoming too fixated on them as your only source of intimacy and validation, their sexual attraction begins to drop

Most women would never admit it, but they love a man they can't control fully

Also, not saying you should be an asshole and make her feel worthless. But she should know that she is special to you, but also replaceable

I knew she was trying to protect herself from future pain. She then told me that she wants to make an effort to change this, to keep this going as long as possible because she truly liked me (and I like her too), and that part of that would involve me being more careful about talking about other girls. In her own words, she wanted to protect the love bubble we had and didn’t want to be taken out of it by being reminded of other girls. I agreed that I would make more of an effort to do so, and we then had sex.

She's testing your non-monogamous frame

A few days later (two days ago) we met up again – I drove to hers 30 minutes away. She couldn’t do night as she had other plans (and said she had to leave at 6) so we hung out during the day. Had sex multiple times and were still laying in bed at 6:30, well past when she said she had to leave. I could tell she didn't want to leave, it was only when I said I should get going because I didn't want to make her late that she snapped out of it.

I was curious, so asked her who she was going to dinner with. She was evasive. I said “date?” and she said “yes”. She seemed very uncomfortable and then said she should have just said it was friends. She told me that after the conversation last time she realized that she couldn’t get too caught up, that it was the kick in the guts she needed to start dating again. Previously, she and I were in a bubble. I feel she got so comfortable with me that she wasn’t even looking to date others for a while. I feel she was putting it off because she was with me.

Again, testing your frame

But also following your lead. Because it was you that set the frame of non-monogamy from the start

So her dating other guys is following the precedent you set

You should follow your precedent as well and date other girls

The thing is, I don’t know what to do now. She is starting to see other guys. And I know that if things go well, I am going to be the one to go given the unconventional nature of our relationship.

That's not true

You greatly underestimate how much other guys suck at dating and seduction. They are not your competition

I have accepted this. I know this is how it has to be. But, I want to know if there are any ways to minimize the inevitable pain that is coming.

I'm not exactly sure how you setup your relationship, but I can tell she is pushing for more emotional progress

You can keep things going by doing more stuff like sleepovers, dates, shared experiences. Something to make her see that the relationship is going somewhere

But you need to be careful with this. Because it has to seem like it's your idea and you not being reactive to her pulling away. So add in emotional progression.... SLOWLY

One thing that would actually make me feel better is if she talked about the dates she went on. I would actually prefer this, because it would be less of a surprise if she was telling me about this guy for weeks and then they were deciding to be exclusive. I would prefer that to keeping our “love bubble” and then her growing more distant until suddenly, she admits the wants to end things. I don’t want surprises. Should I tell her this?

I’m not too experienced in this area, if any guys out there have been in a situation like this have advice I would love to hear it. Feeling very confused (and actually a little fearful) right now.

No need to tell her anything. She will pay more attention to your actions and not words

Focus on holding your non-monogamous frame, dating other girls, slowly adding emotional progress to this relationship, and not worrying about other guys

And if she leaves...... Just play it cool and let her go like it's no big deal

Because I've noticed that when girls left me the first time we dated, non-exclusively, they always came back and stayed longer the second time around.

It's almost like they're testing to see if you actually mean what you say, and won't buckle and get needy about them leaving you

Break-ups are final boss of non-monogamous shit tests

 

[Zoro]

Sounds like you didn't acknowledge how much you liked this girl, and assumed calling it "casual" could give you the best of both worlds long term, going out and gaming while having a relationship with this girl.

But in fact, you communicated very different things by seeing her so often, and then didn't realize how sensitive a girl could be when her expectations are not correctly managed. In a way, it wasn't casual at all, just in name.

I did the same thing and lost a great girl this way.

Blackdragon has a system that explains what different behaviors should go on a FWB as opposed to an open relationship, and a serious open relationship.

I heard he didn't come up with the system, and I wish the genius minds of GC could create a similar one, because I'm sure it would be even better. Though Blackdragon's version has served me well.

I think if you followed what he lays out for what he called a MLTR, you might have been able to maintain this relationship longer. The fact that you caught some feels means that this wasn't truly a FWB situation. When I stop seeing a FWB, there is only mild disappointment.

Here's the idea in a nutshell.

If you want to keep a truly casual FWB relationship stable over the long term, there has to be some emotional distance in the relationship. So avoiding behaviors and acts that communicate a more serious intention for the relationship is important.

Here's what he recommends for a FWB:
1. See her no more than once every 10 days.
2. No sleeping over
3. No dates
4. The relationship centers around good sex and good conversation, and that's basically it.
5. Don't introduce to her to family and friends
6. avoid anything else that would communicate more serious intentions.

Now I really like this system because it does a decent job at setting the right expectations and avoids hurting the girl, while keeping things stable.

Here's what he recommends for a MLTR:
1. Dates are allowed now
2. Don't introduce to her to family and friends
3. Don't talk about the sex you're having outside the relationship

Some of these ideas seem crazy, but it makes more sense when you realize you're supposed to have multiple girls you're seeing. So not seeing one for 10 days isn't a big deal, and no sleep overs isn't so unsatisfying if you're having sleep overs with an MLTR. Also there is a 3rd level for more serious open relationships that allow for more flexibility and of course meeting your friends and family.

I have to say, I haven't really put this system to the test as often as I'd like to be able to give it an thorough review. Yes I've had an open relationship for a while, but I haven't had a consistent rotation of girls that this system is made for. It still has helped me, because the underlying idea of how your behavior can communicate intentions about the relationship is important in any relationship.

 

[Beam]

Really appreciate the in depth responses guys. Going to give a more detailed reply soon - has been quite hectic with New Years..

 

[POB]

Since then, we have been seeing each other every three to four days, and have had sex every time. We are extremely attracted to each other. But, she doesn’t want to have kids and we don’t share any long term goals or interests (she doesn’t show any interest in any of the things I am interested in, not even in a supportive way) and so I didn’t want an exclusive relationship with her. We do click and enjoy each others company, sometimes 6 hours feels like 1, it goes by so fast.

The rules of FWB:
- see her once a week tops
- let her initiate contact 75% of the time
- never discuss serious matters like family or money with her
- she is just a friend you fuck, nothing more
- no sleep overs
- no cuddling/spooning or any of that shit
- no gifts
- after you fuck, it's time to go...no hanging out besides sex

You already fucked that dynamic...so either upgrade or let her go.

 

[Beam]

this is not a fwd this is defacto monogamy, since this is the only girl you got.... So what you really wanted is her and you, while you shop around and try to date other women... You had that for a bit, but now she is checking out cause she gave up on any long term possibility with you, usually fwb stick around cause they thing there is a chance with you, she does not see so she is checking out.... Since you feel her withdrawal you instinctively know you are losing her getting onitis.... buyers remorse.... Solution is either to upgrade her.... Or be out for good, since you really can not handle her being with other guys.... Or learn how to deal with her seeing other guys, just remember as soon as one of those guys fuck her 3 times and lock her in, you will be history...On the other hand this is not issue to achieve since as long as you remind cool and colective she will be reverting back to you, unless she reach a breaking type point.. this is the system you should have used

I'm actually cool with her seeing other guys. However, I'd like to be kept in the loop so if one of them starts becoming serious, I will be mentally prepared. We had this discussion last time we met two days ago, and she agreed and told me this was the same concern she had of me, me dumping her out of the blue for another girl. I haven't sensed a withdrawal yet, if anything two days ago when we met she seemed more invested than ever, wanting more sex when I was already tired.

All I can do now is just be as damn attractive as possible so other guys can't compete. Also on the texting front, we don't text much. We pretty much verbally plan the next catch up in person and then don't text much at all in the days in between. This was my suggestion and it's working for her.

 

[Beam]

I’ve had a situation like this ; a fwb and I who were incredibly sexually compatible (felt like her pussy was made for my dick and vice versa); but we also had nothing in common and she was quite crazy.

We only fucked once a week but it went on for about 6 months and eventually she wanted stability of a monogamous relationship and went with the guy offering it.

Unfortunately sometimes you just have to accept that you may lose good ones; but you’ll find better ones as you keep improving.

Just don’t burn bridges on the way out like I sadly did.

Thanks for the response. We are also sexually compatible (well, our sex drives at least, she is not very adventurous, I'm trying to open her mind a bit). I know this is not going to last indefinitely and what we have is nice now, going to enjoy it while I can.

How did you burn your bridge with yours?

 

[Beam]

Casual relationships can be so much fun, but they can quickly turn sour if not managed properly

IMHO, that meet up frequency seems like a lot. Especially with a FWB that you have chemistry with. One of you was bound to start getting emotional/romantically attached.

If I have a FWB that I have romantic feelings for, I upgrade her to MLTR, to do more coupley stuff. But even then, I will only see her a maximum of once a week and may even skip a week every now and then.

Problem I ran into is before sleeping with her, I was seeing her frequently to keep the momentum up. Once we slept with each other I wanted to scale back to once a week, however she, being extremely perceptive, noticed the difference and brought it up, telling me she loved the initial interactions, that once a week wouldn't work for her and that it needed to be more frequent. Hmm, upgrading to a MLTR may be an option. Still want to avoid coupley stuff (not going to go to the movies, or on road trips etc) however we do grab food and drinks, go for walks and chats. I'll acknowledge I am compromising on this though.... since I mainly just want to have sex with her now and am enjoying my time with her doing these things less and less...

This is tricky but you have to remember something...

She chose to be with you when you didn't want exclusivity. This means she is attracted to the Beam that can get other women. It may seem counterintuitive, but you should never hide or be ashamed that you are attracted to other women, or that other women find you attractive

Women in relationships will always test to see how much mental control they have over you and your desires. And if they sense you're becoming too fixated on them as your only source of intimacy and validation, their sexual attraction begins to drop

Most women would never admit it, but they love a man they can't control fully

Also, not saying you should be an asshole and make her feel worthless. But she should know that she is special to you, but also replaceable

She's testing your non-monogamous frame

Very interesting perspective. It is hard sometimes to not feel slightly weird about the situation.

Again, testing your frame

But also following your lead. Because it was you that set the frame of non-monogamy from the start

So her dating other guys is following the precedent you set

You should follow your precedent as well and date other girls

That's not true

You greatly underestimate how much other guys suck at dating and seduction. They are not your competition

I haven't been able to make her cum yet even though we have sex all the time (with her initiating a lot of the time). She has told me she rarely came in her relationship and that she really doesn't care, although it would be nice. This is the only (and major) thing that other guys will provide competition for. I suppose I just have to keep learning and using this as a learning experience and pushing/keeping on top of my game to keep other guys at bay.

I'm not exactly sure how you setup your relationship, but I can tell she is pushing for more emotional progress

You can keep things going by doing more stuff like sleepovers, dates, shared experiences. Something to make her see that the relationship is going somewhere

But you need to be careful with this. Because it has to seem like it's your idea and you not being reactive to her pulling away. So add in emotional progression.... SLOWLY

Interesting. Is what you do with your MLTRs? I'm guessing you don't with your FWBs.

No need to tell her anything. She will pay more attention to your actions and not words

Focus on holding your non-monogamous frame, dating other girls, slowly adding emotional progress to this relationship, and not worrying about other guys

And if she leaves...... Just play it cool and let her go like it's no big deal

Because I've noticed that when girls left me the first time we dated, non-exclusively, they always came back and stayed longer the second time around.

It's almost like they're testing to see if you actually mean what you say, and won't buckle and get needy about them leaving you

Break-ups are final boss of non-monogamous shit tests

Appreciate the in depth response. Will be keeping it in mind going forward, particularly on the emotional progression front - although I'll need to work out just how slowly to start introducing different things.

 

[Beam]

Sounds like you didn't acknowledge how much you liked this girl, and assumed calling it "casual" could give you the best of both worlds long term, going out and gaming while having a relationship with this girl.

But in fact, you communicated very different things by seeing her so often, and then didn't realize how sensitive a girl could be when her expectations are not correctly managed. In a way, it wasn't casual at all, just in name.

I did the same thing and lost a great girl this way.

Blackdragon has a system that explains what different behaviors should go on a FWB as opposed to an open relationship, and a serious open relationship.

I heard he didn't come up with the system, and I wish the genius minds of GC could create a similar one, because I'm sure it would be even better. Though Blackdragon's version has served me well.

I think if you followed what he lays out for what he called a MLTR, you might have been able to maintain this relationship longer. The fact that you caught some feels means that this wasn't truly a FWB situation. When I stop seeing a FWB, there is only mild disappointment.

Here's the idea in a nutshell.

If you want to keep a truly casual FWB relationship stable over the long term, there has to be some emotional distance in the relationship. So avoiding behaviors and acts that communicate a more serious intention for the relationship is important.

Here's what he recommends for a FWB:
1. See her no more than once every 10 days.
2. No sleeping over
3. No dates
4. The relationship centers around good sex and good conversation, and that's basically it.
5. Don't introduce to her to family and friends
6. avoid anything else that would communicate more serious intentions.

Now I really like this system because it does a decent job at setting the right expectations and avoids hurting the girl, while keeping things stable.

Here's what he recommends for a MLTR:
1. Dates are allowed now
2. Don't introduce to her to family and friends
3. Don't talk about the sex you're having outside the relationship

I think based on everything you have written and also TominHos response, I already seem to have accidentally made her a MLTR. However, I actually prefer this, for now. Since I'm getting more frequent sex/sexual experience, and also relationship experience, minus the drawbacks. I'm aware it can end at any moment. I guess I have to soak up as much as I can while I can.

Some of these ideas seem crazy, but it makes more sense when you realize you're supposed to have multiple girls you're seeing. So not seeing one for 10 days isn't a big deal, and no sleep overs isn't so unsatisfying if you're having sleep overs with an MLTR. Also there is a 3rd level for more serious open relationships that allow for more flexibility and of course meeting your friends and family.

Actually doesn't seem too crazy. Makes a lot of sense actually, I was seeing a girl for a few months towards the middle of last year and we wouldn't see each other for a while, and wouldn't sleep over. It felt natural. This one feels different, but also natural. 3rd level definitely doesn't apply with this one. She has told me multiple times, she doesn't care about hanging out with people I know/my housemates etc. She only wants me. But quite interesting that this is an option.

I have to say, I haven't really put this system to the test as often as I'd like to be able to give it an thorough review. Yes I've had an open relationship for a while, but I haven't had a consistent rotation of girls that this system is made for. It still has helped me, because the underlying idea of how your behavior can communicate intentions about the relationship is important in any relationship.

Was that a 3rd level open relationship in which she met your friends and family?

 

[Beam]

The rules of FWB:
- see her once a week tops
- let her initiate contact 75% of the time
- never discuss serious matters like family or money with her
- she is just a friend you fuck, nothing more
- no sleep overs
- no cuddling/spooning or any of that shit
- no gifts
- after you fuck, it's time to go...no hanging out besides sex

You already fucked that dynamic...so either upgrade or let her go.

Based on all the responses I have read, it seems I have (accidentally) upgraded this girl to a MLTR already. For now this is working for me - since it's giving me sex and relationship experience without exclusivity. Some rules I will still abide by - not discussing family or money, no gifts.

 

[Zoro]

think based on everything you have written and also TominHos response, I already seem to have accidentally made her a MLTR. However, I actually prefer this, for now. Since I'm getting more frequent sex/sexual experience, and also relationship experience, minus the drawbacks. I'm aware it can end at any moment. I guess I have to soak up as much as I can while I can.

Cool. I think there’s a chance that you could smooth things out if you start acting like MLTR situation too. You were kind of half way between FWB and MLTR, that’s what threw her off. In other words, I don’t think you accidentally made her an MLTR, you were in between the two.

Was that a 3rd level open relationship in which she met your friends and family?

Yeah actually. And I broke the rules here as well. I accidentally made her 3rd level too soon. I got lucky though because she’s great, very emotionally mature and supportive of my lifestyle. But I want to develop more significant relationships than FWBs with other girls, and technically that’s not “allowed” under the Blackdragon system. According to him it’s potential for drama and issues. The system has done me well by following it, and whenever I have strayed from it, I’ve noticed the issues it’s warns of. Actually he recommends not getting serious girlfriends until after age 35 lol

 

[Zoro]

Just want to add that the girl I mentioned before that I lost by doing something similar to your situation, and the girl I had a serious open relationship with were two different girls.

I lost the first one by misunderstanding my own feelings towards her. I highly valued her as a person, lover, and companion. She 100% qualified for an upgrade and I would have been very open to the idea had I realized it. Somehow I didn’t, and just kept coasting in FWB mode (which really I was acting like we were MLTR), while also foolishly breaking the rules I already knew about. She got mixed messages and the last straw was when I didn’t do anything for valentines because it was “casual”.

Im still seeing the other girl.