GF guilty after sex: objectification, submission, and feminism

[Skater]

I was having sex with my girlfriend last night. She wanted me to put some water in my mouth and drip it on her. Being the gentleman that I am, I obliged all over her body, much to her sexual satisfaction; she achieved orgasm as I dripped it on her face.

Afterwards, she looked a bit conflicted and confessed that it had felt really good completely submitted to me like that but that she was worried because "feminism." That it had been "objectifying" and she enjoyed it. I didn't really know what to say so I went with something to the effect that I wanted her to totally experience her sexuality without being ashamed. As far as I recall, I did not connect it to society though perhaps I should have.

(As an aside, isn't it funny how the societal brainwashing has shifted from "sex bad: strong woman abstains" to "sex good: strong woman obtains" but its ultimate reflection on ASD/FSC has hardly moved an inch? Just my woefully under-researched theory; curious to hear opinions.)

She thought for a moment and concluded it was "OK" to submit in the bedroom but ONLY in the bedroom. I remained silent as naturally I want her to submit even outside the bedroom, within reasonable limits, as part of my duty to lead the relationship.

I did some reading today on the main site and the forum where I found @Teevster to be something of an expert in these matters:

Sexually Objectifying Women

Chase wrote an article on sexually objectifying women. He also mentions he noticed women seemed a lot more attracted to him. I would like to know how objectifying that cute girl sitting next to you would make her more attracted? Will someone elaborate? Thanks in Advance, -Carlos

www.skilledseducer.com

Do women want to be treated like sex objects? The answer is YES and NO.

If a girl is attracted to you - in the sense that she is interested in you - then objectifying her sexually, can work great in order to increase her buying temparature and make her horny as it sets the right frame. This might no help you much to create interest, but to seal the deal and escalate - it is a good frame.

If she is an "object" to you, that means you can use her sexually and you are the boss. Dominance turns women on. Yet it can creep them out too, if you start treating her like a sex object, being sexually dominant and all that and she is not sexually attracted to you what-so-ever.

I agree. In this case she was very much turned on but her subsequent state-control mechanism reverse-rationalized her pleasure in a bizarre inversion of the normal process where she'd seek to justify it.

Note that it does not always happen; she repeatedly tells me she loves it when I do whatever I want with her body, and once when I expressed an urge to eat ice cream off her tits she agreed enthusiastically and did not protest afterwards, at least verbally.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that she asked for it and I agreed rather than me taking the initiative: dominance dynamics?

Sex Talk: The Submission Gambit

Hey guys. So here is a cool one to try out this week end. I will not make this as detailed as a GC post, but I will try to describe the concepts a bit. If anything is a bit unclear, just ask! This gambit is key for multiple purposes: * Good chick-crack that hooks women in * Show awareness...

www.skilledseducer.com

Alek: Alright, a real woman is a woman who is able to submit, but not to a man, but to her own passions and desires....
Her: huuum interesting
Alek: and if her passion is toward a guy, she is not submitting directly to her, but to her feeling toward the man.

(you just helped her made sense of her desire for sexual submission, without it contradicting her social frame that is often inspired by feminist narratives - hence you just induced a good feeling)
Her: that's is a good way of putting it!

Alek: yes, and so many women are holding back their true desires and passions... because the social world tells them they shouldn't do X and Y... but what happened to strong, confident and independent women?
Her: ....
Alek: Be strong and SUBMIT to your passions! they are strong and oftentime beautiful!

This might work to correct her ambivalence to sexual (and hopefully more general) submission, I'll give it a try. My only worry is that it might clash with pre-established frames as this is a relationship of six months already.

But, one night when we were a little tipsy and had sex on the beach I called her a "beach slut" in the passion of the moment which she incredibly enjoyed and caused her to cum soon after. The following day she rationalized and told me it was great but that I could only call her a slut while drunk, to which I disagreed but did not argue as I don't quite trust myself in that territory yet; I'm still new to the game and she is my first and only lay and girlfriend (full story coming ~soon).

I'm sure if I was in the moment as before (to her credit alcohol certainly does help with getting there) and called her a slut "from the right place," she would eat it up as before, drunk or not.

Sex Talk Gambit: Women's Sexual Subjectification

What if you could take the hot topic of sexual objectification… and turn it into an arousing subject for romantic exploration? With this gambit, you can. Hey guys and welcome back. It has been a while since we’ve discussed sex talk gambits, and I decided to share one today to add another gambit...

www.girlschase.com

• The objectifier treats the object as lacking in agency and activity.
• Denial of autonomy. The objectifier treats the object as lacking in autonomy and self-determination.
• Denial of subjectivity. The objectifier treats the object as something whose experience and feelings are unimportant.

Alek: Sexualizing women is NOT objectification. In fact, seeing women as asexual, that is, de-sexualizing them is objectification because you deny the existence of a crucial element of their humanity. The exception goes for asexual people, of course. Women love sex, loving sex is human, and women are humans. It is not rocket science.

These are solid and could probably constitute a great reframe assuming I could displace some default frames as mentioned above.

Alek: To me, sexual objectification is when one sees women as sex subjects. By this, I mean neglecting her sexual subjectivity, agency, and autonomy.
...
And I always like to end with my favorite catchphrase:
Alek: Women are sex subjects, not sex objects!

Is this intentional Alek? Did you perhaps mean "sex objects" in your opening sentence here?

I wrote my thesis on the subject, so I know what I am talking about. So this gambit is thoroughly thought out.
...
It’s funny that I haven’t had a single girl disagreeing with this gambit or contradicting me with my theory of objectification.
(One of my thesis supervisors was a feminist, so the theory is “feminist-proofed,” if you will.)

Would you mind sharing your thesis? I'd like to read it and form my own understanding of objectification to more easily deflect and explain away troubles like the ones of which I write.

How to Disarm Feminism in Your Girlfriend or Wife

When your girlfriend (or wife) starts bringing up feminist talking points, you need to know how to respond. Here’s how to defuse these and get your relationship back on track. This is going to be a somewhat in-depth article, with a deep look at the full (i.e., millennia- and...

www.girlschase.com

Great article @Chase, learned a lot and was inspired to read into history more deeply myself. I had read it before and attempted to deliver the cyclical history argument a few days ago but it was resisted and didn't land perfectly. She basically agreed it had happened before but wasn't dismayed in her battle to fight for it again. I'll have to think of a better way to undermine her feminism without blatantly speaking against it.

With my literature review complete, I've come to seek your targeted wisdom: how can I allow my girlfriend to submit to her positive objectification without guilt, minimizing the hold feminism has over her sexuality and life in general?

With gratitude for even getting to have this "high-quality problem,"
Skater

 

[POB]

No need to talk about it or to overcomplicate things.
Next time you guys have sex, reverse the roles and behave like her male whore.
Tell her to use your body, like whisper kinky stuff in her ear: "I'm your sex toy now, I need you to use me for your pleasure".
Put her on top of you and shout that you like to be dominated by your horny princess.
Then the second time, you go back to normal and dominate her a bit.
Third time, reverse roles again.
Always keep it back and forth and interesting.

If she brings up again that feminist crap, just tell her that society con go fuck itself, and that you only care about you, her and the bond and pleasure you guys have together.

 

[Skater]

Next time you guys have sex, reverse the roles and behave like her male whore.

Leading by example, I like it. I will try it.

If she brings up again that feminist crap, just tell her that society can go fuck itself, and that you only care about you, her and the bond and pleasure you guys have together.

Word.

 

[POB]

Leading by example, I like it. I will try it.

"My man is strong and a leader, but he likes when I'm strong and lead too."
That's the blueprint you want.