Have any of you went from introverts into extroverts?

nationals11

Rookie
Rookie
Joined
Jul 15, 2021
Messages
2
So recently I've been doing this PUA stuff, I was very enthusiastic about it for the first 3 weeks or so while I was out doing pickup, and then I began to dislike it heavily. I have been forcibly trying to "turn" myself into an extrovert. I'm very introverted by nature, so things like going around talking to people out on the town, conversations with random people, etc. are just not natural to me. And I detest these things, in fact. For example, last friday night I met new people while I was hanging out and then, the very next day, I went back to being the real me, and I just hated everything about being an extrovert. Even though I caught a few young college chicks that night, I still hated having to go out there and say & do all that stuff.
I feel like I'm being fake. As I'm going out doing pickup I feel like this is all stupid and I'm living a life path that is not for me. I question if this is the right thing to do - turning myself into an extrovert against my natural desires. Often I feel like I shouldn't even pursue women at all. Often I feel that pursuing chicks is for extrovert people, not for me. I don't really want one that bad, I highly doubt I would even enjoy the company of a chick, but everyone else is doing it, so it leads me to believe that I ought to have one too. Just like the idea that I ought to have a social life because everyone else is doing it. But it feels all so forced and unnatural. People invite me to places, chicks even tried to take me home, but I don't want to. Maybe I should focus on more important things in my life and pay no mind to this. What is the point of this PUA shit? I'd like to know if any of you guys ever felt this way, and what you have to say?
 

Starboy

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
307
So recently I've been doing this PUA stuff, I was very enthusiastic about it for the first 3 weeks or so while I was out doing pickup, and then I began to dislike it heavily. I have been forcibly trying to "turn" myself into an extrovert. I'm very introverted by nature, so things like going around talking to people out on the town, conversations with random people, etc. are just not natural to me. And I detest these things, in fact. For example, last friday night I met new people while I was hanging out and then, the very next day, I went back to being the real me, and I just hated everything about being an extrovert. Even though I caught a few young college chicks that night, I still hated having to go out there and say & do all that stuff.
I feel like I'm being fake. As I'm going out doing pickup I feel like this is all stupid and I'm living a life path that is not for me. I question if this is the right thing to do - turning myself into an extrovert against my natural desires. Often I feel like I shouldn't even pursue women at all. Often I feel that pursuing chicks is for extrovert people, not for me. I don't really want one that bad, I highly doubt I would even enjoy the company of a chick, but everyone else is doing it, so it leads me to believe that I ought to have one too. Just like the idea that I ought to have a social life because everyone else is doing it. But it feels all so forced and unnatural. People invite me to places, chicks even tried to take me home, but I don't want to. Maybe I should focus on more important things in my life and pay no mind to this. What is the point of this PUA shit? I'd like to know if any of you guys ever felt this way, and what you have to say?
Dude I know exactly what you're feeling and experiencing now. Cold approaching girls felt really incongruent for a guy like me. I was always the introverted guy growing up. I didn't like being an outgoing extroverted guy. I preferred to be lowkey and didn't like to be in the spotlight. I always wanted to blend in with the crowd.

But my introversion was socially conditioned more than anything. I was picked on a lot as a kid,insulted,bullied,disrespected by my peers and even kids who were supposedly my friends. So to avoid any negative attention I would be quiet in the hopes that I wouldn't get picked on and I would get left alone. This had a ripple effect years later down the line. It's why I struggled to get girls and am playing catch up now.

Extroversion won't feel natural for you. Not in the beginning and not for a while. You're gonna feel like your being fake,it isn't who you are,it's fucking bullshit for you to pretend to be this social outgoing guy who can approach hot girls on the street. Doing things you're not good at won't feel natural until you're used to it and desensitized.

I was reading all these gc articles and watching these entertaining videos ,but couldn't get the courage to actually do what is emphasized the most which is to APPROACH. It was too difficult and didn't feel feasible for a guy like me who had so many mental blocks and insecurities. I'm probably in the top 5% of hard cases in the forum.

I had to pay thousands of dollars for coaching for me to finally find the courage to approach women. I didn't even want to get coaching at first and I was apprehensive of signing up. I FORCED myself to change and confront my fears and handicaps. I did inner game and conversation coaching with @Tony D (who can give you a free consulation) and I learned many useful social tools for talking to girls.

Then I booked a bootcamp with Avery Hayden and Karisma King. Two elite pickup coaches from youtube and went to Las Vegas to meet them. These guys have really good social skills and I saw how they hooked girls and got them immersed in conversation. Over there these guys showed me how to get comfortable talking to strangers and enter a flow state,where I can confidently approach girls and not give a fuck what others think. I wrote about it in the beginning of my journal. I met girls who liked me and I could've smashed if I was more experienced and knew what I was doing. Not trying to suggest you need to buy expensive coaching to make progress just explaining how it helped me.

I would not say I went from introvert to extrovert in the matter of a few months. But i'm much more adaptable and am definetly a different person. I can approach women if I want to,I speak louder,more assertive,willing to speak my mind,more expressive,learned a sense of humor.

When you're introverted you are much more likely to be apathetic about getting girls because you're used to being alone. It doesn't mean you're ok with it or even like it. Your brain has just learned to accept being introverted and single and be ok with it because it's easier to do nothing than to force change. If some hot girls(that are not prostitutes) approached you and offered to fuck you would definetly choose to fuck.

Pua feels like bullshit/impossible when you haven't gotten a taste of what's possible. When you're beginning you won't think change is possible for you because you haven't experienced it yet. Change is very difficult and most people don't want to change because it's hard. But it's definetly possible for you to suceed. It takes small steps and you have to pay the price. Have to start with small actionable steps and set goals for yourself.

There are other important parts of your life,but your dating and sexual success is very critical to your sense of self worth and identity as a man. When you don't have women by a lack of choice you will always feel like your life is incomplete and missing something. Dating does matter and pickup helps you build that up.
 
Last edited:

uriel

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
567
Yes, I went from introvert to extrovert.

If you don’t want women and you don’t want to socialize, no one’s forcing you.
You can live a perfectly quiet and easy life playing video games and not getting out of your house. Millions of men are doing it.

But…

Don’t confuse fear or apathy with “who you are”.
The moment you start identifying your limitations as part of your identity, you start falling a long spiral that will take you triple the work to climb out.

“Who you are” is a fluid concept… you can change, if you so want it… you can be better… you can be different if you want to.
I was not confident and I was not attractive… and yet here I am, 15 years later with people often complimenting how manly and handsome I am.
Don’t become your own limitations.
 

DarkKnight

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Oct 18, 2018
Messages
973
Introvert talking here. I have never become an "extrovert"... Despite that I can socialize very well and can get people to connect with me real fast. But after a couple of hours I am drained.... and want to pull back so I can recollect. I severely dislike too much people around me at all times and like to have space.

However, barring a situation where I am forced to be around people I DO enjoy socializing and it doesn't feel fake or anything like that when I open a girl. For me the most important thing is that I can exit a situation and am not forced to stay there... otherwise I start getting annoyed, but otherwise when it is on my own terms.. yeah sure, what is there not to like?
 

Tony D

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
394
I did the same. I was very introverted... more like shy. But practicing game for many years really brought out that latent showman that I have inside myself. Everyone has that part of themselves. Personalities aren't binary... they're fluid, dynamic, and change with age and experience.
 

POB

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
184
Location
South America
However, barring a situation where I am forced to be around people I DO enjoy socializing and it doesn't feel fake or anything like that when I open a girl. For me the most important thing is that I can exit a situation and am not forced to stay there... otherwise I start getting annoyed, but otherwise when it is on my own terms.. yeah sure, what is there not to like?

Exactly how I feel about this subject.
Introverts who break out of the shell like to choose how they socialize - rather than being thrown into a random social situation.
 

Train

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Messages
262
Just to chime in and echo what's been said:

I used to be an antisocial introvert back in school. Now I am a more social introvert. Meaning I can be charismatic, social, and enjoy socializing. However, as much as I may enjoy it, it wears on me so I get tired and need to "recharge."

So it is possible to be social, charming, etc while being an introvert.
 

Mr. Hawaii

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
39
I've talked about this with a couple guys in chat, but one idea i've been toying with, which essentially translates into "How to be more extroverted", is learning to locate your consciousness. Sounds weird right? it is kinda weird, but put simply you need to hold your consciousness near the front of your face. Often, when i'm feeling down, depressed, weak, antisocial, whatever, my consciousness is closer to the back of my head. Maybe even at the bottom of my head, right above my neck. It's what gives you that sunken-in feeling.

And when you look at the other side, those moments when youre in the best of moods, naturally social or confident, just having fun, engaged, your consciousness is probably a lot closer to your eyes. That is essentially where you want to stay. It's as powerful as body language, even more so perhaps.

So the idea is that you try to maintain your consciousness (focus) as close to your eyes as you can, ALL the time. The same way you remind yourself to maintain your posture. And it doesn't mean intense necessarily. Just give it a try and see if you can locate where you are in your head.
 

Derek da man

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jan 24, 2020
Messages
125
Just to chime in and echo what's been said:

I used to be an antisocial introvert back in school. Now I am a more social introvert. Meaning I can be charismatic, social, and enjoy socializing. However, as much as I may enjoy it, it wears on me so I get tired and need to "recharge."

So it is possible to be social, charming, etc while being an introvert.
I'm in much the same situation - at school I was in the very switched on and quite intelligent, but not academic, so got bullied which hit my confidence. I hid myself in technical geeky activities like electronics and computers which are very isolating activities. This was back in the 80s.

Many years later I started to overcome this and become more sociable, but I'm still generally an introvert and fairly happy in my own company. I really enjoy socialising and meeting people but I need to be in the right frame of mind which is mainly based on the amount of energy I have as I find it hard work to be concentrating, listening and talking to people for extended periods.

So again - to echo @Train - you can be an introverts but still able to get out and enjoy being sociable.
 

Vision

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Jul 3, 2020
Messages
164
So recently I've been doing this PUA stuff, I was very enthusiastic about it for the first 3 weeks or so while I was out doing pickup, and then I began to dislike it heavily. I have been forcibly trying to "turn" myself into an extrovert. I'm very introverted by nature, so things like going around talking to people out on the town, conversations with random people, etc. are just not natural to me. And I detest these things, in fact. For example, last friday night I met new people while I was hanging out and then, the very next day, I went back to being the real me, and I just hated everything about being an extrovert. Even though I caught a few young college chicks that night, I still hated having to go out there and say & do all that stuff.
I feel like I'm being fake. As I'm going out doing pickup I feel like this is all stupid and I'm living a life path that is not for me. I question if this is the right thing to do - turning myself into an extrovert against my natural desires. Often I feel like I shouldn't even pursue women at all. Often I feel that pursuing chicks is for extrovert people, not for me. I don't really want one that bad, I highly doubt I would even enjoy the company of a chick, but everyone else is doing it, so it leads me to believe that I ought to have one too. Just like the idea that I ought to have a social life because everyone else is doing it. But it feels all so forced and unnatural. People invite me to places, chicks even tried to take me home, but I don't want to. Maybe I should focus on more important things in my life and pay no mind to this. What is the point of this PUA shit? I'd like to know if any of you guys ever felt this way, and what you have to say?

The definitions of introvert/extrovert have nothing to do with your ability to socialize, btw. It's a common misconception. You're talking about skillsets, not extroversion/introversion, which have to do with where you get your energy from (being by yourself vs. being around people).

Also, it's natural to feel the way you are when you do anything new...

People get the "this isn't for me" feelings and internal dialogue when they do things like... learn to drive a car, learn to play a sport, try on a different style of clothes, work a new job, move to a new city, start a new hobby, etc.

I like to think of it like trying on a new pair of pants... at first, they're uncomfortable, scratchy, and might even look a little awkward but if you keep wearing them, eventually, they'll become your favorite pair of pants and you won't know how you lived life without them.

But you have to get through that "this isn't for me" phase or you'll never get to the "this is the new me" phase.

Anything worth doing well is worth doing poorly at first.

That's one of the reasons people talk about finding your "why" before you start anything... that's what gets you through the "I'm not cut out for this" and "this isn't me" and "why am I doing this anyway" phases. Otherwise, you'll end up mostly doing the same shit you've always done, for the rest of your life... which isn't necessarily a bad thing, depending on what it was that you've been doing.
 

Tayo

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
273
Location
Planet Earth
If you stay at it long enough, this is how things would look like for you.
Many years later I started to overcome this and become more sociable, but I'm still generally an introvert and fairly happy in my own company.
 

hey_lover

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
48
I have come to the realisation that the introvert label is a coping mechanism for those with low social capability. Capability in this context relates to how comfortable you are expressing your thoughts in social situations, how easy/difficult socialising feels and the length of time you can socialise for.

My belief is that introversion stems from social anxiety and the behaviours we associate to it are coping mechanisms to explain why we aren't as capable as our extroverted brethren. We prefer being alone because interacting and connecting with people and groups is difficult and challenging. We don't like to be the center of attention because the fear of failure or making a mistake is anxiety inducing. We feel tired and need time off to recharge because we use up too much working memory when socialising (conscious in/competence?).

For a long time I believed in these coping mechanisms, despite spending half a decade trying to become more extroverted. I've observed my extroverted friends who are fearless in social situations, who effortlessly command entire groups, say whatever is on their mind without hesitation, and seek encounters like the social animals that we are. And then it dawned on me. This is purely a matter of skill and experience. Nothing else.

They have far more positive social reference experiences, which in all likelihood goes back to their childhood where they (probably) grew up in an environment free of judgment and repercussions. They learned to say whatever was on their mind so interacting with people was an extension of that. They learned that communicating and interacting is normal and natural and that anxiety is not a normal response. Now I know what you're going to say, anxiety and introversion are not the same thing.

So riddle me this, I exhibit all of the feelings and behaviours associated with introversion. I took an anti-depressant one day and it completely transformed me. Words flew off my tongue without a single thought, I initiated social interactions automatically like my life depended on it, I felt energised despite spending an entire day communicating with people. My job is people facing and I spoke to over 15 different people that day. I had people circle around me and I felt completely at ease being the centre of attention. What had changed? I'll tell you what, for the first time my life I was without any anxiety.
 
Last edited:

focus

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Messages
15
I have come to the realisation that the introvert label is a coping mechanism for those with low social capability. Capability in this context relates to how comfortable you are expressing your thoughts in social situations, how easy/difficult socialising feels and the length of time you can socialise for.

My belief is that introversion stems from social anxiety and the behaviours we associate to it are coping mechanisms to explain why we aren't as capable as our extroverted brethren. We prefer being alone because interacting and connecting with people and groups is difficult and challenging. We don't like to be the center of attention because the fear of failure or making a mistake is anxiety inducing. We feel tired and need time off to recharge because we use up too much working memory when socialising (conscious in/competence?).

For a long time I believed in these coping mechanisms, despite spending half a decade trying to become more extroverted. I've observed my extroverted friends who are fearless in social situations, who effortlessly command entire groups, say whatever is on their mind without hesitation, and seek encounters like the social animals that we are. And then it dawned on me. This is purely a matter of skill and experience. Nothing else.

They have far more positive social reference experiences, which in all likelihood goes back to their childhood where they (probably) grew up in an environment free of judgment and repercussions. They learned to say whatever was on their mind so interacting with people was an extension of that. They learned that communicating and interacting is normal and natural and that anxiety is not a normal response. Now I know what you're going to say, anxiety and introversion are not the same thing.

So riddle me this, I exhibit all of the feelings and behaviours associated with introversion. I took an anti-depressant one day and it completely transformed me. Words flew off my tongue without a single thought, I initiated social interactions automatically like my life depended on it, I felt energised despite spending an entire day communicating with people. My job is people facing and I spoke to over 15 different people that day. I had people circle around me and I felt completely at ease being the centre of attention. What had changed? I'll tell you what, for the first time my life I was without any anxiety.
It's good that you have discovered what's true for you. But don't assume just based on your experience that what is true for you must be true for everyone else.

To give a counter example, the girl I'm seeing at the moment is quite socially skilled, has no issues starting conversations with new people and gives off a great impression to pretty much everyone that meets her. And she enjoys socialising! However after doing a lot of socialising for an hour or so, she won't be energized by it. She ends up feeling drained and needs time to recoup her energy. That is what an introvert actually is.
 

Phoenix

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
688
@hey_lover i agree with alot you said, i'm an introvert but i just started becoming more outgoing to get what i want in life i.e. approaching girls and sleeping with them. my social skills have improved drastically and i don't feel anything when i open strangers. whereas before there would be this anxiety cloudy feeling. hard to explain, but basically, i'm much more grounded and can think and make decisions in the here and now. presence i guess it is. when you get anxious you get in your head and lose focus.

here's where i disagree: i still consider myself an introvert. that is, i'm not super dependent on others to charge my energy. i am perfectly fine doing my own thing and going my own way, alone if i must. the only difference is that my social interaction skills are way better now, i'm more outgoing and i feel less anxiety. interactions are also more enjoyable now. but i'm still very much fine with my own company. however i also do enjoy and seek out being around people more now, so you very much have a point on that.

people cope that they prefer being alone as "just the way they am" because they haven't overcome their anxieties.
 

DarkKnight

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Oct 18, 2018
Messages
973
@hey_lover nothing to do with social anxiety. I do not suffer from it. Just like focus mentioned, we just get drained after too much interaction.

You want to say I have social anxiety or the other experienced guys like POB?

In the contrary a lot of times I am the life of the party. You would not GUESS that I am an introvert.
 

topcat

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
179
I have come to the realisation that the introvert label is a coping mechanism for those with low social capability. Capability in this context relates to how comfortable you are expressing your thoughts in social situations, how easy/difficult socialising feels and the length of time you can socialise for.

My belief is that introversion stems from social anxiety and the behaviours we associate to it are coping mechanisms to explain why we aren't as capable as our extroverted brethren. We prefer being alone because interacting and connecting with people and groups is difficult and challenging. We don't like to be the center of attention because the fear of failure or making a mistake is anxiety inducing. We feel tired and need time off to recharge because we use up too much working memory when socialising (conscious in/competence?).

For a long time I believed in these coping mechanisms, despite spending half a decade trying to become more extroverted. I've observed my extroverted friends who are fearless in social situations, who effortlessly command entire groups, say whatever is on their mind without hesitation, and seek encounters like the social animals that we are. And then it dawned on me. This is purely a matter of skill and experience. Nothing else.

They have far more positive social reference experiences, which in all likelihood goes back to their childhood where they (probably) grew up in an environment free of judgment and repercussions. They learned to say whatever was on their mind so interacting with people was an extension of that. They learned that communicating and interacting is normal and natural and that anxiety is not a normal response. Now I know what you're going to say, anxiety and introversion are not the same thing.

So riddle me this, I exhibit all of the feelings and behaviours associated with introversion. I took an anti-depressant one day and it completely transformed me. Words flew off my tongue without a single thought, I initiated social interactions automatically like my life depended on it, I felt energised despite spending an entire day communicating with people. My job is people facing and I spoke to over 15 different people that day. I had people circle around me and I felt completely at ease being the centre of attention. What had changed? I'll tell you what, for the first time my life I was without any anxiety.
yeah imma have to respectfully disagree.

If we’re talking clinical psychology social anxiety lies in the realm of trait neuroticism. Introversion refers simply to low extraversion which is it’s own trait.

As expressed by several members here, one can be introverted and lack social anxiety.

I’m one of these.

I feel fine engaging with people. I’d just rather do my own thing. I generally don’t find your run-of-the-mill person particularly interesting and if I can get what I want solo, i’ll deject to that happily.

Socialization for its own sake is a waste of energy..

Anxiety?
These lockdowns had no effect on my mental health. I thrived actually. The hardcore extroverts I know? A shambles.

Basically for me socialization is a means to an end. It provides knowledge, stimulation or resources.

Get the girl? Cool i’ll socialize.

Interesting convo. Sure why not.

Good music, decent folks. Cool.

But once I’ve got it, it’s back home to chill. Alone.
 

Will_V

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
353
I have come to the realisation that the introvert label is a coping mechanism for those with low social capability. Capability in this context relates to how comfortable you are expressing your thoughts in social situations, how easy/difficult socialising feels and the length of time you can socialise for.

My belief is that introversion stems from social anxiety and the behaviours we associate to it are coping mechanisms to explain why we aren't as capable as our extroverted brethren. We prefer being alone because interacting and connecting with people and groups is difficult and challenging. We don't like to be the center of attention because the fear of failure or making a mistake is anxiety inducing. We feel tired and need time off to recharge because we use up too much working memory when socialising (conscious in/competence?).

For a long time I believed in these coping mechanisms, despite spending half a decade trying to become more extroverted. I've observed my extroverted friends who are fearless in social situations, who effortlessly command entire groups, say whatever is on their mind without hesitation, and seek encounters like the social animals that we are. And then it dawned on me. This is purely a matter of skill and experience. Nothing else.

They have far more positive social reference experiences, which in all likelihood goes back to their childhood where they (probably) grew up in an environment free of judgment and repercussions. They learned to say whatever was on their mind so interacting with people was an extension of that. They learned that communicating and interacting is normal and natural and that anxiety is not a normal response. Now I know what you're going to say, anxiety and introversion are not the same thing.

So riddle me this, I exhibit all of the feelings and behaviours associated with introversion. I took an anti-depressant one day and it completely transformed me. Words flew off my tongue without a single thought, I initiated social interactions automatically like my life depended on it, I felt energised despite spending an entire day communicating with people. My job is people facing and I spoke to over 15 different people that day. I had people circle around me and I felt completely at ease being the centre of attention. What had changed? I'll tell you what, for the first time my life I was without any anxiety.

Despite this comment coming off a little bit simplified, I think you are absolutely right. I have had pretty severe anxiety when I was younger, and I might have easily been termed 'very introverted' as I spent almost all my time on my own, had very few friends and had to 'recover' from all kinds of social interactions.

I have never liked the terms introverted and extroverted, I believe they are labels for symptoms. The same way that now there is a category for 'emotional intelligence' or fixations in psychology on particular categorizations of people. I don't believe such things exist as concrete phenomena, but may arise in any degree based on physiological differences or psychological habits. Physiological differences in my opinion are usually minor - we all know times when we have experienced all types of these personality categories, so it seems strange to me to assign categories to something as fluid as emotional state. This is why believe there are two things that account for the vast majority of a person's state of mind: attention control and self expression.

What you got from the anti depressant is really just dopamine, you probably can get it from any intoxicant. But dopamine is not something that is supposed to be there at some 'normal' level, it comes and goes based on a person's internal reality and how they place themselves within it. And a person's internal reality is based on where they place their attention (is it on constructive/positive things or negative things?) as well as how inhibited they perceive expressing themselves to be - because the mind is integrated not by merely 'believing' but through action and words that conform to those beliefs - when a person watches themselves doing something other than what their internal truth dictates, their mind is not untouched or unchanged by the experience, it creates a lot of tension and anxiety, which is why some people can be troubled and even avoidant of success when their internal reality dictates they should not be in that position.

As with all psychological things, it is a chicken and egg problem - you can influence things both by changing dopamine artificially or by habituating your attention and emotional response (e.g. through meditation) as well as becoming 'in touch' with yourself - which is really just being in the habit of developing a strong identity and belief system and being in the habit of expressing it.
...

The internal world of the mind is vastly more complex than people tend to think. The unconscious mind computes most of our behaviours and actions and emotional state without our intention or conscious input, and holds a reality which we cannot change except by attrition over long periods of time, like water forming a rock. And we can hold disfunctional conceptions of ourselves and the world around us totally unawares, that lurk in the unconscious as neurosis. Something like PTSD is only the most obvious incarnation of a disfunctional internal reality that is consciously out of reach, but I believe such things operate throughout the mind at all levels of severity, from inhibitions that we don't even realize are there, to something like an all out panic attack.

It's one of the greatest shames of the 20th century, in my opinion, that psychoanalysis faded out of existence, since it seems like one of the most irresponsible things to me to not develop a conceptual model (not a physiological one) of what happens under the surface of conscious thought, given that the conscious mind is merely a tiny fraction of what exists there outside of our direct control.

As Carl Jung eloquently put it in Man And His Symbols:

"The motto "Where there's a will, there's a way" is the superstition of modern man. Yet in order to sustain his creed, contemporary man pays the price in a remarkable lack of introspection. He is blind to the fact that, with all his rationality and efficiency, he is possessed by "powers" that are beyond his control. His gods and demons have not disappeared at all; they have merely got new names. They keep him on the run with restlessness, vague apprehensions, psychological complications, an insatiable need for pills, alcohol, tobacco, food - and, above all, a large array of neuroses"
 
Last edited:

Starboy

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
307
What you got from the anti depressant is really just dopamine, you probably can get it from any intoxicant. But dopamine is not something that is supposed to be there at some 'normal' level, it comes and goes based on a person's internal reality and how they place themselves within it.
@Will_V as someone who took antidepressants as a youngster that's not how they work. They don't give you more dopamine. They adjust your serotonin levels and serotonin is the hormone that stabalizes your mood. When your mood is stabilized and you're not bombarded with involuntary feelings of hopelessness and dispair because of your depression it's easier to control your internal state of mind.
 

Will_V

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
353
@Will_V as someone who took antidepressants as a youngster that's not how they work. They don't give you more dopamine. They adjust your serotonin levels and serotonin is the hormone that stabalizes your mood. When your mood is stabilized and you're not bombarded with involuntary feelings of hopelessness and dispair because of your depression it's easier to control your internal state of mind.

You right that it's serotonin, my mistake! Though they have similar roles they aren't quite the same.

My point is that it regulates a hormone that is normally (at least to a very large degree) regulated by 'reality' - that is, one's internal reality or self-conception, that might tend toward something functional or disfunctional.

To be clear, I haven't taken any antidepressants, even though I have been well beyond the point where someone would be prescribed one, and I once went (for the first and last time) to a psychologist who was eager to sign me up. But pretty much everyone in my family has taken stuff from anti anxiety pills to the strongest anti depressants. I have had a lot of observational experience of these drugs, but not direct.

I fully agree with what you say about them, and at certain times they seem to be the only option to pull someone out of a nosedive. But I think it's a serious problem that the analysis sort of stops there. I know someone with very severe depression (virtually unable to function), who I've accompanied on doctors trips and such, and there is really nothing further that occurs beyond some very basic CBT (a useful but underpowered weapon in my opinion) and a lot of drug prescriptions. Even the 'chemical imbalance' theory that underpins the entire approach to psychological treatment is just a vague hypothesis, and an incredibly superficial one at that.

The problem in my opinion is that there is no practical, conceptual model of the human mind. The basic physiological anatomy is mapped, but even though a hundred billion human beings have walked the earth over hundreds of thousands of years (or more), no one is able to create a conceptual model of the internal workings of the mind that this mind is capable of using - that is, a description of the mind in the mind's own symbolic language. We spend half our lives in the richly symbolic reality of our unconscious (i.e. dreaming) and yet the only serious attempt at understanding this reality (Jungian psychoanalysis) was scrapped in favor of chronic drug treatment and a plethora of superficial, dogmatic self-help approaches.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread, I don't pretend to be an expert but I can certainly say for myself that when you plumb the depths of your mind over the course of many years, and track the difference between what you want to be and where you end up, you realize there is a vast amount of apparent control you really don't have, and I believe that the best way to influence one's mind (since it certainly cannot be forced to do anything in the long term) is to try to understand its reality, and guide your attention toward finding what it requires you to do in order to become as integrated and functional as possible.

Instead of doing this, modern psychological science has become infatuated with categorizations and identification of symptoms and trying to link them with drugs, which by all accounts seems to be a failing battle if you look at how psychological problems have exploded. I believe that introversion and extroversion are both merely symptoms of a state of mind that are more or less temporary - neither being necessarily positive or negative - and while these labels are somewhat useful in limited ways it's very easy to misuse them as a diagnosis of personality.
 

Rain

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
415
So riddle me this, I exhibit all of the feelings and behaviours associated with introversion. I took an anti-depressant one day and it completely transformed me. Words flew off my tongue without a single thought, I initiated social interactions automatically like my life depended on it, I felt energised despite spending an entire day communicating with people. My job is people facing and I spoke to over 15 different people that day. I had people circle around me and I felt completely at ease being the centre of attention. What had changed? I'll tell you what, for the first time my life I was without any anxiety.
Which antidepressant was it?
Do you still take it or did you stop?
 
Top