Socializing How do you destroy the leader of a social circle?

[TrailBlazer]

The leader gets the most attention from girls, so of course I want to take that role.

For example right now I have a group of friends where one guy organises everything and everyone likes him for it. And he enjoys the fruits of his labor.

I’ve tried to befriend him (“keep your enemies close”), but we both don’t really want to open up emotionally around each other, so it’s not really working.

I also taught him daygame, but that only increased his charisma, so that wasn’t a good idea. He also found himself a girlfriend on his like fifth approach, while I’ve been doing this for years and still nothing, so that pissed me off as well.

Are there any tricks I can use to destabilise him and become the main guy? It can even be “dark” psychology, I don’t care about him.

 

[MrVariety]

Probably the reason you've been "doing this for years and still nothing" is because you have a scarcity mindset which this thread obviously illustrates.

Mr Variety

 

[OldGuy]

Do not worry about taking over his role, although if the girlfriend isn't in social group, ask him how his girlfriend is.

 

[TrailBlazer]

Probably the reason you've been "doing this for years and still nothing" is because you have a scarcity mindset which this thread obviously illustrates.

Mr Variety

Well because I am in scarcity in terms of women. However he also doesn’t have heaps of women lining up for him so I wonder where he takes his good vibes from.

Anyway I’m not here to become a better or abundant person, I just want to destroy this leader and become the main guy of the group. That’s why I asked for tricks.

 

[TrailBlazer]

Do not worry about taking over his role, although if the girlfriend isn't in social group, ask him how his girlfriend is.

Why not worry? It’s absolutely demasculinising to be below him and to have all the people look to him for leadership. It’s our natural instinct to take over and dominate.

I ask him about the girl frequently, she’s not in the circle. Will asking that somehow destabilise him in the long term?

 

[topcat]

lol you're going to get yourself ousted..

For example right now I have a group of friends where one guy organises everything and everyone likes him for it. And he enjoys the fruits of his labor.

he's the leader because he provides the group with things they value..

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

The leader gets the most attention from girls, so of course I want to take that role.

The best way to do that is to start your own social circle, not to try take the position of the leader in a circle that already exists.

For example right now I have a group of friends where one guy organises everything and everyone likes him for it. And he enjoys the fruits of his labor.

That's what I recommend you start doing... organise thing for a group. Puts you in an implied leadership position and this is magnetic to women.

I’ve tried to befriend him (“keep your enemies close”), but we both don’t really want to open up emotionally around each other, so it’s not really working.

Gee I wonder why he won't open up emotionally to you. Obviously he has good social skills, so he can smell something's off with you.

It can even be “dark” psychology, I don’t care about him.

You want to take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself why you think it's okay to fuck over other people.

To use "dark psychology" to get what you want at the expense of harming other people.

You're on a dark path my friend. I see only ever-increasing suffering in your future unless you change this mindset.

 

[Teevster]

Well because I am in scarcity in terms of women. However he also doesn’t have heaps of women lining up for him so I wonder where he takes his good vibes from.

Anyway I’m not here to become a better or abundant person, I just want to destroy this leader and become the main guy of the group. That’s why I asked for tricks.

And people wonder why high value people are closed off and selective with who they hang with.

You may destroy him. But you will never take his role. He is in his role because he is cool and provide good vibes. With your attitude you can impossibly display good vibes, and you can impossibly be a guy people will want to follow.

There is a word for your situation: being envious.

Is being envious high value?

The only time I see "dark strategies" to be useful is when somebody tries to fuck you over.

Then it is a form of "self-defence".

Now, it may come off as a moral argument... but ultimately, it is not. Being envious and having your attitude rarely leads to any success.

I have had multiple losers try to "screw me over" out of envy - acting all friendly, then trying to suck value out of me, and eventually backstab. I have learned my lesson and have become more selective over the years, but in the past who ever did this to me ended up regretting hard.

Back to your case: there is a reason he is on top, and you are not - he got better social skills. And thus you will be fighting against someone with an established authority, better social skills, a guy who people like and follow, who provide value... vs. you... an envious man.

Who'll win?

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

I'll say something else. There aren't just 2 kind of people in the world. Those who are willing to use the dark arts and those who don't. There is a third kind of person in the world. The kind who wouldn't use the dark arts to harm others. But if you fuck with them, they will fuck you back so hard you are going to wish you had never been born. Be careful out there.

 

[TrailBlazer]

lol you're going to get yourself ousted..



he's the leader because he provides the group with things they value..

The best way to do that is to start your own social circle, not to try take the position of the leader in a circle that already exists.

That's what I recommend you start doing... organise thing for a group. Puts you in an implied leadership position and this is magnetic to women.

Gee I wonder why he won't open up emotionally to you. Obviously he has good social skills, so he can smell something's off with you.

You want to take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself why you think it's okay to fuck over other people.

To use "dark psychology" to get what you want at the expense of harming other people.

You're on a dark path my friend. I see only ever-increasing suffering in your future unless you change this mindset.

I started this circle and he took over my role quickly because I was unsure of organising things. I learnt my lesson but now I can’t just try organising my own things in that group, it would look too forced. But I’m sure I’d be a better leader and that’s why I’m looking for techniques to take over.

And it’s “dark psychology” but we use that (at least the old school guys) in the field all the time. Guys will destroy you socially in a second. One needs to strike hard. Men fight over roles in the hierarchy all the time, it’s natural.

 

[TrailBlazer]

And people wonder why high value people are closed off and selective with who they hang with.

You may destroy him. But you will never take his role. He is in his role because he is cool and provide good vibes. With your attitude you can impossibly display good vibes, and you can impossibly be a guy people will want to follow.

There is a word for your situation: being envious.

Is being envious high value?

The only time I see "dark strategies" to be useful is when somebody tries to fuck you over.

Then it is a form of "self-defence".

Now, it may come off as a moral argument... but ultimately, it is not. Being envious and having your attitude rarely leads to any success.

I have had multiple losers try to "screw me over" out of envy - acting all friendly, then trying to suck value out of me, and eventually backstab. I have learned my lesson and have become more selective over the years, but in the past who ever did this to me ended up regretting hard. There is a reason he is on top, and you are not - he got better social skills. And thus you will be fighting against someone with an established authority, better social skills, a guy who people like and follow, who provide value... vs. you... an envious man.

Who'll win?

If I wasn’t envious I would never want to take his role of the leader. Would I even be a man if I didn’t have the natural urge to lead and dominate? No, I would feel terrible. Of course I want to lead.

My vibes can be great and I’ve lead a few circles before, but I’m still learning. And I won’t learn by just accepting my position. In the old school PUA you have all sorts of “AMOG destroyers” etc. So I just want to test that.

 

[TrailBlazer]

I'll say something else. There aren't just 2 kind of people in the world. Those who are willing to use the dark arts and those who don't. There is a third kind of person in the world. The kind who wouldn't use the dark arts to harm others. But if you fuck with them, they will fuck you back so hard you are going to wish you had never been born. Be careful out there.

Well he took over my circle, so he is the one who will face the consequences. I don’t want to harm people, just to establish my position and teach him a lesson.

Also no need to fear other guys, not much they can do in today’s world. No one is going to attack you just because you shamed them socially or whatever. If you destroy them in a smart way, they won’t even notice and will probably even like you more because you will frame it as helping them!

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

See, when I saw the title of the thread I clicked on it because I was curious if this is a self-defense situation or not. But it sounds like he just stepped up because "you snooze you lose". Not like he fucked you over.

 

[TrailBlazer]

See, when I saw the title of the thread I clicked on it because I was curious if this is a self-defense situation or not. But it sounds like he just stepped up because "you snooze you lose". Not like he fucked you over.

Well yeah but still, we don’t just accept defeat do we. I gotta do what I can to become the leader, even if just as a training. Being the leader has tons of benefits, I’ve been there and it’s amazing.

Even in random situations like when you approach a group of women and a leader guy comes and tries to remove you, you gotta know what to do!

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

If it's not self defense, don't use Dark Arts. Just step up.

 

[TrailBlazer]

If it's not self defense, don't use Dark Arts. Just step up.

Right now the group likes him as a leader and so stepping up would look forced and like I’m competing. Also he has higher energy and wouldn’t hesitate to bring me down or shame me for his own benefit - it happened a few times already. He doesn’t play too fair. What I want is for him to make a mistake or something.

 

[topcat]

Right now the group likes him as a leader and so stepping up would look forced and like I’m competing. Also he has higher energy and wouldn’t hesitate to bring me down or shame me for his own benefit - it happened a few times already. He doesn’t play too fair. What I want is for him to make a mistake or something.

Why not build him up? Help him up? Use your talents to combine with his and provide the group a sum greater value?

If that is beyond (or beneath) you then i doubt you’ll be leading that group anytime soon. Nobody loves a tyrant.

 

[TrailBlazer]

Why not build him up? Help him up? Use your talents to combine with his and provide the group a sum greater value?

If that is beyond (or beneath) you then i doubt you’ll be leading that group anytime soon. Nobody loves a tyrant.

Good idea, I will try to adopt that mindset.

See I’m not closed off to cooperation, I’m still learning the best practices - like many of beginners I’m not too well socialised. But I will try this and if I’m the better leader, sooner or later I’ll be voted into that role.

I will have to lose the envy first then because if not it will be visible.

One important thing is that he doesn’t play too fair, anytime I try to act too open or “alpha” he shames me. So he’s aware of the hierarchy. And I’m not someone who would shame someone in front of others. That’s way worse than the “dark techniques” I mentioned - by that I meant “under the radar”.

 

[topcat]

Good idea, I will try to adopt that mindset.

See I’m not closed off to cooperation, I’m still learning the best practices - like many of beginners I’m not too well socialised. But I will try this and if I’m the better leader, sooner or later I’ll be voted into that role.

I will have to lose the envy first then because if not it will be visible.

One important thing is that he doesn’t play too fair, anytime I try to act too open or “alpha” he shames me. So he’s aware of the hierarchy. And I’m not someone who would shame someone in front of others. That’s way worse than the “dark techniques” I mentioned - by that I meant “under the radar”.

This is better, but it’d probably be best for you to drop your ambitions to lead the group altogether and rather prioritize what is best for the group (this is how a good leader thinks anyway).

 

[Levo]

On a related note: Im going to go out on a limb and guess you don't like losing money? A lot of times being the leader of a social circle and hosting parties means taking the L financially. The reason the orbiters that will fill out your parties will gravitate toward you is because you're a generous host. That means opening up your big house and running the grill and while you hope everyone will bring what you asked them and pitch in, many times they will not so you need a stocked bar to fall back on. People will also break your shit, not help you with random upkeep costs like pool, propane, etc. If you aren't in a good financial situation then it is hard to become the social hub without amazing charisma. If you start nagging people about financials unless its some huge deal then it will turn then off. This becomes more true the older you get and the higher circles you try and go into.

If you aren't getting laid consistently from cold approach then you probably aren't in a good spot to be the social hub of a social circle that will attract beautiful women. And if you do get some in there then you can just usurp you like the cool guy did to you.

I think your best play is to befriend him and see what you can learn from watching him. Remind him that you got him his GF and as long as he doesnt secretly think youre a weirdo he will social proof you and push girls your way at his parties.