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How important is 100% financial independence?

Rancorous

Space Monkey
space monkey
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If she's in the club she's not looking for a boyfriend. She looking to have some fun. Hooking up is one thing. After they see your lifestyle they know what's up. If it's not up to their standards or if it's not what they're looking for, they high tail it out of there.

Quality women usually don't hang out at bars and clubs. They're out and about.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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If she's in the club she's not looking for a boyfriend. She looking to have some fun. Hooking up is one thing. After they see your lifestyle they know what's up. If it's not up to their standards or if it's not what they're looking for, they high tail it out of there.

Quality women usually don't hang out at bars and clubs. They're out and about.
when they are out and about you can not bring your 401k or your rolls royce, or your mansion to out and about, brah!
 
a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers

Will_V

Chieftan
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Problem with these discussions is guys tend to be thinking of stuff they see on social media, where girls are all made up and using the best angles and guys are all trying to project absolute success, and thinking all the hot girls want gigachads making a million bucks a month.

Walk around your local mall for an hour at midday, spot the hottest girls you can find with guys, and tell me if he's this gigachad that social media are telling you you have to be.

As far as the specific op question, it doesn't make much sense to me. What is financial independence? $40k a year? Lots of dudes making that and not getting laid. Lots of dudes making $100k and not getting laid. And lots of dudes bouncing around from one part time make-ends-meet gig to another, living life and getting laid with hot girls all the time.

Financial independence is of course useful, but it's not something a girl is specifically interested in. I've never been asked about that. What she's going to want to know is if you have a place you can get together alone, and if you're living your life on your terms. The rest is all highly negotiable, especially after you've fucked her well.

Of course long term she's going to want to see that you have good finances and prospects, but depending on the early impression you make on her (especially through your frame control, general attitude toward life, and ability to handle challenges), she will see you as someone with high potential, and will be willing to support you to help you get to where she wants you to be. Women love to find diamonds in the rough, so that they can become your indispensable support and weave themselves into your life story so that it's very hard to let her go once you reach success, as opposed to finding some already polished diamond who doesn't need her and with whom it's hard for her to create a robust link.

The whole idea of being a complete loser with no prospects LTR'ing a super hot girl is mcdojo territory, it's just a pointless mental exercise. But so is the idea you have to be some ultra successful high status dude. If you want a hot girl, you have to stand out in some way from the competition, she's not going to go and select you from the middle of the crowd. But there are myriad ways to stand out, from the way that you approach her to the way you treat her to the way you express yourself around her to the things you achieve in your life. As long as you compare very favorably to the competition in some way, so that she can be proud of you as her choice, you will have an opportunity with any girl. And as long as you are improving and developing and reaching more and more success over time, it will be hard for her to lose respect for you.

The stronger your frame control, the lower of a point you can start at and the hotter the girl you can do it with, but eventually she has to be able to say "this is my man and I'm proud to be with him". For some reason that matters to her.
 

Rancorous

Space Monkey
space monkey
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55
Problem with these discussions is guys tend to be thinking of stuff they see on social media, where girls are all made up and using the best angles and guys are all trying to project absolute success, and thinking all the hot girls want gigachads making a million bucks a month.

Walk around your local mall for an hour at midday, spot the hottest girls you can find with guys, and tell me if he's this gigachad that social media are telling you you have to be.

As far as the specific op question, it doesn't make much sense to me. What is financial independence? $40k a year? Lots of dudes making that and not getting laid. Lots of dudes making $100k and not getting laid. And lots of dudes bouncing around from one part time make-ends-meet gig to another, living life and getting laid with hot girls all the time.

Financial independence is of course useful, but it's not something a girl is specifically interested in. I've never been asked about that. What she's going to want to know is if you have a place you can get together alone, and if you're living your life on your terms. The rest is all highly negotiable, especially after you've fucked her well.

Of course long term she's going to want to see that you have good finances and prospects, but depending on the early impression you make on her (especially through your frame control, general attitude toward life, and ability to handle challenges), she will see you as someone with high potential, and will be willing to support you to help you get to where she wants you to be. Women love to find diamonds in the rough, so that they can become your indispensable support and weave themselves into your life story so that it's very hard to let her go once you reach success, as opposed to finding some already polished diamond who doesn't need her and with whom it's hard for her to create a robust link.

The whole idea of being a complete loser with no prospects LTR'ing a super hot girl is mcdojo territory, it's just a pointless mental exercise. But so is the idea you have to be some ultra successful high status dude. If you want a hot girl, you have to stand out in some way from the competition, she's not going to go and select you from the middle of the crowd. But there are myriad ways to stand out, from the way that you approach her to the way you treat her to the way you express yourself around her to the things you achieve in your life. As long as you compare very favorably to the competition in some way, so that she can be proud of you as her choice, you will have an opportunity with any girl. And as long as you are improving and developing and reaching more and more success over time, it will be hard for her to lose respect for you.

The stronger your frame control, the lower of a point you can start at and the hotter the girl you can do it with, but eventually she has to be able to say "this is my man and I'm proud to be with him". For some reason that matters to her.
Like I said it isn't always the case. But generally speaking they want a sound and financially stable guy. Especially the 9's and 10's.

Go to a place like L.A. or Miami. You see the guys these model quality women are with. They all got lots of money, fancy cars,and a luxurious lifestyle
 

Will_V

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Like I said it isn't always the case. But generally speaking they want a sound and financially stable guy. Especially the 9's and 10's.

Go to a place like L.A. or Miami. You see the guys these model quality women are with. They all got lots of money, fancy cars,and a luxurious lifestyle
Why would I go to LA or Miami? The environment there is basically screaming at everyone "you're a loser if you don't have XYZ". It's the environment setting those expectations, not the women, and the women are just following the environment.

Fortunately there are beautiful women everywhere, not just in those places. They may not be wearing as much makeup or getting as much work done, but I've never cared for those things anyway.

I agree with your point that she will want a financially stable guy long term. All women want that.
 

gameboy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Complete KJ discussion. One guy will say "sure you can get a hot girl when unemployed" then another will come along and say "no, quality girls don't date unemployed guys, so whatever her looks she can't be a quality girl by my definition".
 

Rancorous

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Complete KJ discussion. One guy will say "sure you can get a hot girl when unemployed" then another will come along and say "no, quality girls don't date unemployed guys, so whatever her looks she can't be a quality girl by my definition".
This really varies on the woman. But I'm just saying generally speaking the higher quality women want a well put together guy. It makes sense too.

A woman with a lot of tattoos and piercings is generally attracted to a person with a lot of tattoos and piercings It's not hard to figure out.
 

Adventurer

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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It depends on who and what you're trying to attract.

The guys that drool over the 9's and 10's don't get why they can't get with them. It's your lifestyle and money. Have you ever seen a 9 or a 10 with guy making an average salary? I'm sure there are but no where near as much as a guy making a lot of money.
Yes, all the time

One of my friends started dating a very beautiful girl, blonde with blue eyes and perfect body, as a broke intern. Still together years later. Other richer dudes got rejected by the same girl. Because GAME beats money more often than not

This is 100% cope
 

gameboy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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generally speaking the higher quality women want a well put together guy
"generally speaking"
"well put together"

You keep moving the goal posts. The original discussion in the OP was about the statment "no quality girl would LTR a guy who isn’t 100% financially independent."

I've dated quality girls while I was unemployed and on government subsidies for a year, in my 30s. So if even I can do it with my almost non-existent game, I'm sure others can, too.

Mindset is key. I'd been working and paying into the system for several years back then, so when my contract ended and I found out I'm entitled to over a year of unemployment benefit, it felt like winning the lottery. I knew I could get a new job whenever I wanted, but I was in no rush.
 
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gameboy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Yes, all the time

One of my friends started dating a very beautiful girl, blonde with blue eyes and perfect body, as a broke intern. Still together years later. Other richer dudes got rejected by the same girl. Because GAME beats money more often than not

This is 100% cope
Exactly my point.
 

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
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There's nothing wrong with being an intern. It demonstrates a long term plan. Try being a forklift driver. lol!
This is a good point... I can't find the reference, but I remember Chase wrote something along the lines of how girls are attracted to potential more than accomplishment.

Like one guy may have his own business and is comfortable at the top, and another may be working toward building a similar business, but exhibits a lot more passion.

Like what actually gets her wet? Your potential to pay her rent? Has she evolved to be aroused more by status at the top for her survival value, or the aspect of your personality that is never ending passion and never being satisfied in your own homeostasis? A quality that would pass on to her offspring.

It's an interesting topic and relates a bit to how long can you keep a girl in a fuck buddy situation without progressing the relationship toward becoming a provider in a way... The whole emotional motivation of LTR vs. logical/practical.

As for the Miami gold diggers, this is part of why Franco wrote to use emotional language. In "Getting the Good Girls", it's mentioned as a screening tactic to find heart-motivated women and filter out the materialistas.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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Why would I go to LA or Miami? The environment there is basically screaming at everyone "you're a loser if you don't have XYZ". It's the environment setting those expectations, not the women, and the women are just following the environment.

Fortunately there are beautiful women everywhere, not just in those places. They may not be wearing as much makeup or getting as much work done, but I've never cared for those things anyway.

I agree with your point that she will want a financially stable guy long term. All women want that.
you can be in LA or Miami and nothing changes, again there are different types of woman i don't care if they are a 7 or a 10 women are women, but obviously the higher the rating the easier to achieve their goals:

- gold diggers
- social climbers
- normal hot woman

no all 10s are social climbers or gold diggers, specially now a days, women can make their own money.... I am in the financial industry, i see women making as much or more than dudes....

Also seduction is not a logical but emotional process..... I can hook up or make social climbers and gold diggers fall in love baiting and switching while providing good sex, emotional value, making them invest...

what we call higher guns, waiters, hostess, strippers etc... will actually hook up or be in a relationship with the same staff in their surroundings... For example spike decided to become a chef due to knowing this fact....

second, a lot of the young women their priority is not hooking up with money, and in college the guys they are attracted to are in college aka mainly broke...

Rancorous is a major kj, does not know what he is talking about, he needs to stop watching red pill content or fresh and fit and the likes... and get out of the basement...
 
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Skills

Tribal Elder
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5,577
please guys review basic seduction 101:

 

TomInHo

Modern Human
Modern Human
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752
You can bang the hottest women without having a lot of money. Can even get them in short term relationships

But let's not bullshit ourselves here

If a woman is truly GORGEOUS and she has access to men with means she will prefer that

It's not black and white. The hottest women want men that are sexy and also have to ability to provide

And if you do happen to get with a smoking hot girl when you're a bum, the time is ticking for you to get your shit together. Because the longer you two stay together the more she will push for displays of security

She may even have a kid with you because she finds you so charming but if you can't provide a bit in the long term there will be problems in the relationship if she does have access to higher value males

It ain't rocket science and there's no reason why a man shouldn't strive to be the full package

Guys really need to stop looking for loopholes and accept reality for what it is

You don't need to be a millionaire to keep very attractive women, but if your always struggling financially keeping those relationships going can become problematic

Because trust me, if you're currently a charming loser your woman will love it if you could get your shit together too
 
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