I Think I’m Decent but Know I Can Be Better

[Harlow]

Dating App Dates:

Wasn’t really going to post much about dates I get from the dating apps, since I usually do pretty well in regards to those, but I’ve had a string of bad ones.

For context, I’ve been on about 50 first dates in the past two years, all from Bumble or Hinge. About 30% of them I either fuck or at least get their shirt off on the first date. About 41% of all the women I take their shirt off eventually, wither it be the second, third or whatever date.

Bur here’s where the bragging ends, because the last 7 dates haven’t lead to anything. Except one led to a second date. But all the women ended up not wanted to continue seeing each other.

Here’s how my last date went:

Went out for drinks on a Tuesday night. Off the bat I felt an almost surprised/disappointed look in her face? Almost like she thought I looked different than my photos. But I made sure I don’t look different then them so I don’t think that was it. I saw this a couple times during the night, but only at the beginning of the date. But it could just be a look of nervousness.

I have noticed (or thought I noticed) similar things on other dates, but then those dates ended up going home with me so maybe it’s just in my head. I’m leaning more to this, because I know sometimes I look too deep into things.

Anyways, I do some light teasing, a bit of qualifying (are you the kind of person that is X?), making her laugh, etc. I notice when I lean back she leans in, which I see as an IOI. I keep the conversation going, I make a mental note of topics/questions before the dates so all lulls in the conversation are quickly overwritten with the next questions.

The night goes on, and she agrees to go to another bar for a second drink. I had a venue in mind, but there ended up being a private party going on.

This is where I suggest wine back at my place, a line that either (almost) solidifies its going to be a great night OR I get a polite/sometimes not so polite decline. The line has worked so many unexpected times in the past that it’s a go-to, but now I’m thinking it’s too much of a Hail Mary and might be contributing to me getting such a high fail rate recently. I only go for this if I am noticing IOIs and they agreed to a second/third drink somewhere else, never if they want to call it a night or I feel things aren’t going well.

She says it’s tempting but politely declines. We end up searching for other venues on foot, and after about 10-15 minutes she says she’s actually tired and wants to call it a night. I offer to drive/walk her home (she lived close) but she declined. We call it a night and say our goodbyes.

I felt iffy on the date but was still bummed to see she wasn’t interested in a second date.

My last few dates have gone similar, so I’m started to notice a trend. During all these dates I felt things were going well, similar to other dates I’ve had in the past that lead to an immediate lay. But at some point I fumble and I don’t see them again.

Thanks for reading. Going to try to keep posting journal entries to keep me focused.

 

[FunGuy]

I was experiencing almost identical issues on this thread Brutal Not-Closing Streak so I can guarantee that the problem is lack of compliments/qualification. The only difference is that I wasn't having issues getting follow up dates and the only exception was that one chick I made out with on the 1st date so I'm assuming you are doing something that triggers buyers remorse. From what you posted its clearly not an attraction issues because she is moving venues with you but maybe the tone in which you are inviting them to your apartment has too much sexual implications and that could trigger buyers remorse.

 

[Harlow]

Just read your post and the lay report by DoWhatWorks. Really good information in there, thank you. Also nice to know I’m not the only one that experiences bad streaks, those can make it hard to positive.

Similar to you it’s also for me to wrap my head around qualification. Do you have any suggestions for what I should read on that & complimenting?

Appreciate it!

 

[FunGuy]

Just read your post and the lay report by DoWhatWorks. Really good information in there, thank you. Also nice to know I’m not the only one that experiences bad streaks, those can make it hard to positive.

Similar to you it’s also for me to wrap my head around qualification. Do you have any suggestions for what I should read on that & complimenting?

Appreciate it!

I will PM you

 

[Harlow]

6 Dates This Week

Since breaking up with my girlfriend last month, I’ve been on a rampage on the dating apps.

I’ve had six women say “yes” to going on a date in the very near future—not including the one I messed up and the one who ghosted me a few days before our date.

Of course, some will flake and some might ghost, but I’m not worried about those.

I’ve decided to pivot to only doing coffee dates—unless she’s someone I’m extremely attracted to. Normally I go out for drinks, but I’m trying to steer away from that.

After going on about 50 dates last year, the money spent just wasn’t worth the return in terms of how often I got laid. My plan going forward is:

1st Date:
Coffee, walk by the lake, or something simple.
Set at least a small sexual frame and see how much (if any) I can escalate, while gauging where she’s at.

2nd Date: 1 of 3 Outcomes

• I’ve built enough attraction, comfort, and qualification to successfully seduce.
• I’ve made enough progress to think a 3rd date will likely lead to a lay, or I’m genuinely interested enough to continue.
• I’ve seen enough to know it’s time to abort. No more going on 3+ dates with someone I’m on the fence about, with 0 sexual progress, only to get ghosted.

My Goals for the Next Few Months:

• Increase the number of successful closes
• Make those closes quicker
• Spend less money on dates (drink prices are insane these days)
• Overall, improve my skills. If you read my last post, you’ll see I can still drop the ball—even with an easy layup (granted, it was my first date after a 6-month break from gaming, but still).

With this, I’m going to restart going out for daygaming and nightgaming—but that’s for another post.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Harlow]

Date #1

Overall it went well. She was 15 minutes late which is fine since parking was pretty terrible, didn’t consider that when I recommended the location. Wasn’t too overly concerned because she was texting me during it. Definitely felt nervous vibes from her at first , holding her arms in front of at the beginning, but I felt like I did well with the “act like we’ve been old friends vibe”, so that was good.

I made sure she mainly talked about herself, while asking her some deep diving questions. The first kino was about 10 minutes in. Something fell in her hair and I picked it out gently, while saying she had something in her hair. She was receptive towards it.

We talked for a bit sitting outside then I said let’s walk around the park since it’s right there. We then walked in the park for a bit.

Second Kino was touching her arms to see her tattoos, twice. One for the initial “oh what tattoo is this?”and then the other to ask another question about it. We walked and talk, and I transitioned a bit into sex talk (asking about how much the rumors are true about the people in her field always sleeping with each other) Eventually the topic changed to something else. I made sure to add how I don’t judge and it’s good for anyone to get some action.

While walking I said let’s sit at a table and we talked some more.

We were talking about our pets, and I did a Chase frame by saying “one day you might be able to meet mine, but don’t get too excited because I’ll have to get to know you better first” and smiled. Kept it fun, playful and light which I think she was receptive to.

Third kino was me asking to see her bracelet.

We talked about dating and I just used it as a time to talk about how I can sympathize how difficult women have it, especially when it comes to dating. During the conversation, she brought up how people with sisters often seem to “get” women better. When I mentioned I had one, she nodded and said that made a lot of sense.

I also felt like I was really good about being social and friendly since I’d smile and say hi to strangers as they walked by. Not in weird way but a social way.

The date ended since I had an appointment but I’m pretty happy with how it went.

 

[Harlow]

Damn it!

Thought my date yesterday went well but I haven’t heard from heard from her since then so I’m gonna count that as a loss. This one stings a bit because I felt confident things went well so I don’t know where exactly I went wrong.

I got great advice from another user last year about qualifying, SOIs and roll offs that helped my game so maybe I need to really focus on those. I’m worried it’s not enough, but I can get too in my head about things.

Here’s how my last ten dates went. The last two are from after I broke up with my girlfriend (date 5) and the rest are from last year.

My last ten dates:

1. Thought it went well, haven’t heard from her
2. Invited herself over for the first date, didn’t close only made out. Ghosted me after
3. Thought it went alright, she wasn’t interested in a second date. Only brought my credit card, and the bar was cash only which I didn’t prepare for. So that was kind of a mess to deal with so I wasn’t too surprised she didn’t want a second date.
4. No second date.
5. Bounced to multiple locations, got her shirt off that night.
6. No second date - felt like I over complimented her
7. Bounced to a second bar about an hour into the date, the next day she agreed to a second date but then she ghosted me.
8. Went on a second date, she kind of told me straight up she wants to have kids asap and I made it clear that’s not what I wanted so I wasn’t surprised when she ghosted me
9. Went to second bar an hour into the date, I kind knew where I fucked up here. She was traveling and she agreed to a first date pretty quick. I set a high sexual frame and she was not about it so no second date.
10. No second date.

I was supposed to have another date today but got called into work last minute. I still have 5 coming up in the next week so at least I can try and pinpoint where I’m going wrong.

 

[Harlow]

Date #2 This Week.

Original person canceled last minute but I was able to reschedule with someone else. We ended up going for drinks because it was too late for coffee.

Had an almost three-hour date. It was long, but I don’t think it went well.

At first, things seemed to be going fine. She seemed fairly open, in the sense that I thought I had a chance to win her over. But ultimately, I feel like I didn’t. By the end, I could tell the conversation got kind of stale — she started responding less frequently and with less enthusiasm. I feel like there was an issue with congruence — like what I said over chat didn’t fully match what I said in person. I have a goal of going to medical school even though I have a good career, but I feel like women would automatically disqualified me for that. So over texting I just say I want to go to graduate school to something more vague. I should have remembered exactly what I said over text. That could have been a problem.

I think another issue was the qualifying and kino — maybe I’m just too awkward with my kino. Compliance and escalation are still hard for me to pull off smoothly. I mean, I’ll do it, and I’ll escalate to sex talk, but maybe I just haven’t done it enough to make it flow naturally. I keep thinking, “Ok, where can I fit it in here?” but it doesn’t always feel natural.

Overall, I don’t think I’ll be seeing her again. I could just tell by how flat things went. I thought, well, even if it’s not going anywhere, might as set up a plausible deniability pretext for her coming home with me and see if she’ll bite, even though I know it wouldn’t work. I figured might as well get practice in. When I asked, she either pretended not to hear it or genuinely didn’t hear me. She spoke really softly, so it’s possible she missed it, but I’ll assume she heard.

So I just repeated it, and she kind of nonchalantly replied, “Oh yeah, no, I have homework and I’m staying up late.” She didn’t even put any effort into turning it down — it was very flat.

I think building emotional connection — maybe that’s where I’m failing. The logistics were good: I was only 20 minutes from my place, had my car, parked close to hers, etc. But I just didn’t feel like I made the emotional connection. I don’t know what I did right on my previous dates where I was able to close the same night.

I’ve had enough of those in past few years to know they weren’t flukes, but I’m having trouble repeating whatever I did right while implementing the techniques I’ve learned in the seduction community.

At the first place she spent most of the time with her arms kind of tucked between her legs in a self-comfort/protection position. I noticed it and thought maybe I could’ve done better with my own posture too, but the couch wasn’t very comfortable.

I did some kino, and it went fine — didn’t feel super solid, but at least I went for it. I waited a bit to start it, maybe that was part of the issue. I tried to focus on calibration — really paying attention to her body language — and that helped me realize when things weren’t going well. There were a couple times I got her to laugh, but not much. The laughs were few and far between. Humor didn’t seem to resonate that well, which I probably should have calibrated for earlier.

I tried to do qualifications, but my qualifiers were kind of generic: “Are you a person who’s like this…” I need to get better at that. Sometimes her responses were “Yes, but…” or “I’m kind of like that, but…” which made it hard to know how to follow up. Qualification is still a tough area for me.

At first, I might have overdone the teasing. I kind of got stuck in a teasing frame and then wasn’t sure how to pull back and balance it with compliments. I think I teased without following up with any compliments, which may have thrown things off early on.

When we got there, I made sure she was sitting next to me on the couch, which she did — not far away — which gave me hope. Conversation was okay. Maybe the teasing threw it off a bit, but I felt like I had chances to recover.

We had one drink there, and I asked if she wanted another. She said yes, which was good. But then she said she was hungry, so I wasn’t sure if she genuinely wanted to keep hanging out or if she just wanted food. Early on she said she usually just has one drink, and I teased her for it (over text) and she didn’t respond very well. So I should have realized teasing her about that wasn’t going to land well.


We went to the second place but that’s when the conversation really started dying down. I did a statement of intent, which, like with asking her to come home, I kind of knew wasn’t going to work — but I was doing it more for practice.

In the last 20-30 minutes, I got a second wind with conversation threads, but by then I knew it was a bust. I did manage to get some sex talk in, which was less awkward than I expected — but it didn’t get me anywhere. At least I got practice. Tonight was good practice overall — I tried different things and got reps in — so not a total loss, I guess.

 

[Harlow]

Date #3 Thursday Night

Got my mojo back!

I thought a lot about what I had been doing wrong and think I figured out why. Instead of just focusing on the conversation and calibration (basically what I would do before I discovered the seduction community) I’ve been mainly focusing on implementing the techniques I’ve learned and put the overall conversation second to trying to add in a qualifier or keeping my sexual frame.

On this date I thought let me go back to what I know I’ve done successfully in the past and then try to implement the new techniques. This work and I ended up with a kiss close.

The date went really well overall. Before we even met, we had talked on the phone for about 45 minutes the night before. That helped a lot—it made things feel smoother going into the date, because rapport was already build up a bit. I think phone calls might be a great strategy for me moving forward, especially since conversation is one of my stronger points. It gives me a chance to show who I am early and build momentum before we even meet.

When we met up, I started out pretty nonchalant—relaxed, leaning back in the chair, open posture. But as we got into the conversation, I realized she responded better when I was a little more present and engaged, so I calibrated. She responded much better to this engaged version and it had me thinking maybe by putting effort into being relaxed it either came off as if I wasn’t interested or it was clear I was trying to show I was relaxed.

Throughout the date, I focused mostly on what I do well: conversation. I didn’t try too hard to qualify or do sex talk, I used them when I had good opportunities to but focused more on the conversation. I didn’t do a perfect job weaving those things in, but I’m starting to understand that I should lead with what I’m strong at—then integrate those techniques afterward, not the other way around. I am seeing more and more opportunities come up during conversation to weave these things in, so I can more naturally increase the times I do it.

We had a good connection, which definitely helped everything go more smoothly. I was better this time with eye contact and pauses. The flow felt more relaxed and organic than usual.

One thing that I’m happy about is how I ended the date. It didn’t fizzle out or feel awkward. I made a light joke, grabbed a box to take leftovers, and we both laughed as we left. I walked her to her car, and she stood really close to me—then leaned against the car. She clearly wasn’t in a rush to leave. I moved in a bit and she didn’t pull away, which was a green light. I went for the kiss close and pulled it off perfectly.

 

[Harlow]

Date #4 Saturday Morning

Used what I learned from the last date - focusing more on conversation and calibration, then trying weaving in qualifying, chaseframing, etc.

Date went well, We had a good vibe—fun, relaxed energy. No closing moves or anything like this time, but still way better than most of my last 10 -15 dates.

I did a bit of qualifying, some light sexual tension talk, and kino that felt mostly natural. The first time I did kino and it was a bit awkward. I tapped her arm and said, “Don’t worry, I got it,” as she reached for her purse when we were getting our coffee. She immediately looked down at her arm, which threw me off a bit—not sure if it was just instinct or if it broke the vibe slightly. Still, overall things started well and the conversation flowed for about an hour and a half.

One area I dropped the ball on was logistics. It was hot, and we were pretty far from my apartment. Toward the end, we even mentioned how it would’ve been nice to have a park or second spot nearby to walk around. That stuck with me—I should’ve planned better and picked a location with a solid follow-up option. The vibe was good enough for a second venue, and I missed that opportunity.

In terms of qualifying, I’m still figuring out how to interpret the results. Sometimes she’d say something and I’d follow it up with a qualifier, but I’m not always sure how effective it is. I also used the "sex eyes" technique—imagining us getting freaky while looking deeping into her eyes. I think that worked really well.

It was a pretty normal coffee date, but way better than some I’ve had recently—definitely a step up. I was a bit self-conscious at first, thinking my shirt was too tight (black T-shirt), but I settled in and just focused on keeping the conversation flowing. That’s really where I get my reps in, and I know the more dates I go on, the better I get at holding long-form conversations.

I didn’t end it on the strongest note. I went to the bathroom, and when I came back, she joked about how long I had been in there. I hope she didn’t think I was taking a dump — I was actually on my phone, trying to find a second spot to bounce to. That’s something I should’ve planned ahead of time. Instead, I kind of wrapped things up after that, when I should’ve kept the momentum going or started a new thread of conversation before ending.

So yeah, overall it went well, but there are definitely things I can tighten up—logistics, smoother transitions, and stronger closes. Still, good practice and progress.

 

[Harlow]

Date #5 Sunday Afternoon

This date was with a HB9 (most of my dates have been with HB7 to HB8s) so there was a more on the line with this one.

We had a regular coffee date and overall it went fine. Made her laugh a few times, would deep dive etc. No sexual framing or kino, honestly I think I was too intimidated by her attractiveness to do so.

She would quite quickly give a negative/surprised reaction to my teases, but I would make sure I would compliment qualify on one of her nonphysical traits as quickly as I could after that and it seemed to help. By the end of the date she ended up throwing some teases back at me which I see as a good sign. We ended up even bantering a bit by the end.

Conversation went fine, she definitely wasn’t receptive to a lot of my follow up questions, almost giving me a look like “what are you saying?/what are you trying to ask?” but I kept a strong frame and looked at her back like “how do you not understand the question?”. Before learning about this community I would have buckled and felt flustered by her doing that but not anymore. She seemed receptive to this.

I made sure to make her laugh right before I suggested we end the date so things ended on a high note.

I thought the date went poorly enough where I wouldn’t be hearing back from her or would get a “not feeling a connection so good luck with everything” text but she texted me back later saying how she had fun and has been consistently texting me since then so I see it as a win!

Was supposed to have another date tonight but she canceled, which I’m happy about cause 5 dates in one week is enough for me at this point. I am hoping I will improve my organization/time management skills to be able to do more.

I have two more coming up next week so let's see if I can close on one, or at least continue making good progress.

 

[Harlow]

Date #6: Even More Progress!

TLDR: Got the furthest on this first date than I have in a long time. Got stopped when she was fully naked, I was in my boxers and went to grab a condom. Used lots of kino, qualifying, deep diving, role playing that we’ve been married a long time.

This was the best date I’ve had since breaking up with my ex. Got right up to the finish line but was stopped from crossing it at the last second. I think I did a lot of things right, especially with the physical connection. Obviously did something wrong because I didn’t get to the finish, but was overall very happy with my performance and had a great time.

There was a massive amount of kino throughout the night—holding hands, squeezing each other’s hands, touching arms, shoulders, backs.

One of the biggest things that made the date stand out was the playful “we’re married” roleplay we leaned into. We joked about future wedding plans, songs we’d play at our wedding, and imagined our honeymoon—all with a heavy joking tone, but it helped build intimacy fast. It started when she qualified herself really well, and I asked (knowing the vibe was good and she’d take it as a joke), “When is it too early to buy a ring?” That kicked off all the future-talk banter.

We even joked mid-date like, “Look at us, this is our first fight,” and by the end, that became our whole thing, pretending we were already married. We riffed on it nonstop: buying a ring, planning the honeymoon, talking about how we’ve been married for years. It definitely created a strong, playful connection.

The date started as a coffee meetup, but the place served alcohol too. We didn’t even order a drink for the first 40 minutes because we were deep in conversation and she was a big talker. We connected early on political things (which I’ve learned to never bring up but she did and we were very aligned on that). That helped establish a good connection pretty quick.

She talked a lot—very bubbly energy—which made things easy. I did some light qualifying and threw in compliments, just to keep that balance. I’ve noticed I have improved slightly on keeping the balance between qualifying and compliments.

I remember thinking I wasn’t qualifying enough, so I made a conscious effort to step it up. There wasn’t much sexual talk, but I did sprinkle in a little here and there. At one point early on, she looked away, and I wondered if that was a small rolloff from her, but it didn’t affect the vibe much.

I did some light teasing and disqualifying—playfully suggesting we wouldn’t work, then pulling it back. After the first place closed, I suggested a restaurant nearby I had scoped out beforehand ( finally getting better at logistics). By then, we were already deep into the married couple bit—she even started painting scenes herself, like imagining us on our honeymoon.

At one point I did an SOI saying I wasn’t sure about how well would connect but she had won me over.

At the second spot, the kino really kicked off, holding hands a lot more like 40% of the time. Conversation was still strong, lots of eye contact. When the server came around, she said she’d like another drink, and I told her I had to drive. So I suggested we go somewhere closer to my place instead.

We went to my car, I drove, then parked near my apartment. I casually said, Hey, I live right here—want to come up and meet my pet? She said yes, and we headed up. Escalated quickly so within 10 minutes, we were making out.

Clothes came off—hers completely, mine down to boxers. I fingered her, and things escalated to the point where I went to grab a condom. That’s when she stopped me. It broke the moment a bit, and she mentioned it was getting late. We got dressed, I drove her home, and we made out more in the car.

I didn’t really try to break through her LMR, I knew it was all ASD because she told
me a couple time she doesn’t sleep with someone on the first date.

I hope her ASD doesn’t stop her from seeing me again, she has been texting back with longer and longer frequency but I’m confident it would just be because of buyers remorse. I’m definitely putting more thought into getting through women’s ASD after that night.

No more first dates planned right now, I’ve had a few cancel/reschedule but I need to start actively swiping on the apps again.

 

[Harlow]

Lay Report:

Had a second date with date #5 last week. Genuinely one of the hottest people I’ve gone out with. This made this lay so much better but also so much worse.

First date was coffee, this date was a drink. She does not emotionally open up easily so but I was able to deep dive pretty well and get her talking about important things in her life. I did a lot of qualifying and screening at this first bar. She also really enjoyed teasing/being teased so I did that a lot as a well.

At the second bar I could tell she was opening up a lot more because her answers were longer, she was smiling a lot more and seemed more much involved in the conversation. There were like a good 5 minute stretch where only she talked straight and I barely said a word. Which I thought was great progress because at the beginning she was trying to turn the questions around on me quickly after I asked them and now she was only talking about herself.

What I think really solidified things was when I showed I was someone who did not see sex as a big deal, did not care about a women’s body count, and valued open mindedness a lot in people. This got us talking about sex a lot, I even smoothly asked where is the craziest place she’s had sex.

A did a bit of kino at this point, like I mentioned before she had a tough exterior so I was hesitant to try any. But at one point when I grabbed her hand and squeezed, she squeezed back and I knew I had made significant progress.

At this point I say let’s grab a bite to eat, there is a great place by my apartment, we get there and then I suggested we go up there so she can visit my pets, and I closed with no LMR.

But, this is where the bad part comes in. For the first time (except in two very specific circumstances) I got performance anxiety. Probably one of the worst feelings ever.

Thankfully I was able to transition to just using my hands, the gears started moving again and we both ended up crossing the finishing line. But being limp in-front of a HB9 with your ideal body type is something that I wouldn’t wish on anybody.

Learned a lot from this, and pretty proud of myself for pulling this off.