I'm sick of western women

Jakeroviks

Space Monkey
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I've been in Europe and for the past few years and recently came back to the states. It's shocking to see the differences in quality of women.

When I was in Europe, I met and slept with many beautiful, sweet, intelligent women. Lawyers, teachers, and students. It never felt like a chore, and in fact I enjoyed the whole process of getting to know the girl, learning her story, and legitimately sharing an intimate connection with her. I still talk to a few of these girls today.

Since I've come back to the states, I've been seriously disappointed with girls. Many are downright repulsive: either fat, stupid or lazy.

I am a handsome, intelligent, funny guy. I've been told this by girls I've dated. But in the US it is like pulling teeth with women who have impossibly high standards. No guy should have to go through so much bullshit to end up with a mediocre girl.

Why should a western guy need to learn game to talk to women? Why is it a necessity? Because their standards are so ridiculously high, and they themselves don't know what they want. When I was in Europe, I had some game, sure. But in the west it's a requirement.

Dating western girls is like esting at mcdonalds. It's fake. The whole thing feels fake and vacuous. You play a bunch of games so you can have sex that is unfulfilling. Just like the mcdonalds worker makes a sad little burger that you eat and quickly regret. In contrast, sleeping with european women was enjoyable the whole way through, like a chef who makes a meal he is proud of, to be enjoyed by you. The whole process is enjoyable.

Maybe it's culture shock, and maybe I'll grow out of it. But for now, I can't see the point in pursuing western girls. The tiny payoff for the amount of work required is too much. They're just not worth it.
 

Jakeroviks

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Space,

I talk about women from the US specifcally because that's where I live, but I have been to the UK and it is the same story. Many overweight, masculine "women" with a princess complex. The same with goes for Switzerland, Canada, and doubtless other countries that I haven't visited yet.
 

Space

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Jakeroviks said:
When I was in Europe, I met and slept with many beautiful, sweet, intelligent women.
What do you refer to by east and west is still confusing to me with you added further explanation just adding even more to the confusion. OK, never mind!
 

Jakeroviks

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Space,

I'm talking about countries with a western culture. Think mcdonalds and heavy consumerism. Countries like the US, Canada, and the UK.
 

Space

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Jakeroviks said:
I'm talking about countries with a western culture. Think mcdonalds and heavy consumerism. Countries like the US, Canada, and the UK.
Space said:
I don't have that much experience with girls from the Anglo-culture
Oh. Then Roosh (and many others, really) had a much clearer description when categorizing the US, the UK, Ireland, NZ, Australia, and Canada as a separate universe, separate even from the Continental Western European countries such as Germany, France, or Sweden (OK, you included Switzerland once but not the other time, but personally I've had a much better experience with some Swiss girls than with most from the Anglo-countries, so YMMW), because if you mention "McDonalds and heavy consumerism" in most parts of the world besides maybe really poor 3rd world countries, I'm sure many will regard it as a feature of their own country, perhaps how they were "colonized" culturally, even if said country only started to develop more rapidly just recently (you can even think of the richer part of China that lies the ocean coast), not necessarily identify this description of the Anglo-countries of the US, the UK, Ireland, NZ, Australia, and Canada in particular. My 2 cents.
 

Jakeroviks

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I didn't come here to analyze the definituon of western culture. The post is a rant. I'm fed up with the attitudes of girls in these areas.

We can debate all day about whether or not german girls, french girls, or timbuktuvian girls fit the equation. The point is that the quality of women in the west is seriously lacking.
 

naturalmikey

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i have no luck with eastern and northern european women which is a bummer, because they're hot. i've had plenty of dates that went nowhere. i have no idea how to game them. but american, western european, australian, south american... all those girl i do fine with.
 

metalbird

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Jakeroviks,

I have basically zero personal experience living or traveling outside the US, so I can't speak firsthand from that perspective. But the problem you're describing, that "Western Women Suck", sounds very much like a macroeconomics problem to me, and that's something I can speak to, so let me offer my two cents.

The US has some of the highest rates of both obesity and mental illness in the world, both of which affect women at a significantly higher prevalence rate than men. Furthermore, the highly competitive, capitalistic, and individualistic mentality that the US is known for means that the US has some of the toughest, most confident, and most competitive men in the world. The US has more millionaires than any other country by far, the vast majority of them men. What this means is, the competition here for quality mates is extremely stiff.

On top of that, all of these trends that I mentioned have been increasing dramatically in the 21st century. This has two important effects: Firstly, it creates a sort of economic race condition. As the average "quality" of women decreases and the relative average "quality" of men rises, women have to try less to be competitive, whilst men have to try even harder. Think about it, twenty years ago, it was relatively rare for men to be in extremely good shape unless they worked a blue-collar job. Nowadays, it's standard for even "nerdy" guys to pay their dues in the gym. Why? They know they have to. This both fuels and goes along with the rise in the availability of information, such as popular websites dedicated to teaching men better social skills (like this site), how to be more physically healthy (like nerdfitness and bodybuildingforums), etc -- Smart people capitalizing on the wave of the economic shift. Thus what starts off as a small shift in the economic balance -- say, a 1% decline in the average "quality" of the women and 1% increase in that of men -- spins into a 5% or even 10% split.

Secondly, because these changes in our society have been increasing at an increasing rate in recent years, it means our way of thinking about the market is likely out of date. Many men are still operating on an outdated scale -- what was once a 7/10 guy might now be a 4, and what was once a 3/10 girl might now be a 5 -- and this creates a lot of frustration due to their inability to accept that the times have changed.

I see this all the time with companies that I work with. "Our product is clearly the BEST!" They say. "Why aren't we getting more sales?"
"Well, have you actually looked at the competition?" I ask them.
"No, but we don't need to. We KNOW we're the best. We just need you to market us better."
"Okay, but if you know you're the best, then you should have no problem looking at these objective reports comparing your product to the competition."
This is where I give them the cold, hard data that shows that their competition is often producing faster, better, cheaper products -- something they neglected to acknowledge because of ego.

To put this in the context of your issue, your complaint (Western Women Suck) sounds to me like you're only looking at one side of the coin. I know it can be difficult to accept these truths sometimes, but, try to take a sincere, objective look at the male competition that the women you're targeting are looking at. Try it! Ask to look at a female friend's Tinder matches. Next time you cold approach a girl, work in some playful questions about the types of guys she's currently seeing. You might be staggered by the quality of man that's available, at least superficially, to even a "mediocre" American girl.

If you do indeed come to the conclusion that you're not quite as competitive as you thought, there's really only three ways forward: 1. Give up completely out of spite 2. Accept where you're at and make the best of it OR 3. Bust your ass to try to improve. It's difficult to accept at first, but it's the way it is. And the choice is completely yours.

There's one more thing I'd like to mention, and that even though the macroeconomic view may look bleak from your position, it doesn't mean that that world actually operates just like a theoretical model. Even in economics, there's an understanding of market and price liquidity or resistance to change, which means that at the microeconomics level (your day to day life), there are going to be considerable variations from "ideal" market conditions. Think about it, when you need to fill your vehicle with gas, do you always go to the gas station with the absolute best price-to-product ratio? No. Most of the time, if you're like most human beings, you're going to strike a balance between price and convenience/availability. So if you want to make the most of your situation without actually improving your product (since I imagine you're already looking for a shortcut at this point), make yourself as available as possible. You wanna be that gas station or that Starbucks that's on every corner for every girl around you. You got to really start seeing dating as a numbers game, and that means checking your ego. Have you ever seen a girl with a guy and thought, "Man, how did HE get HER?" It happens all the time, right? Humility my friend. As much as possible, accept the truth, drop any entitlement you feel to a certain "quality" of girl, and, if you can, start working on how you can improve yourself to offer more value. It's a tough job, but it can be rewarding.

Or, just move to another country, haha!

Best of Luck,

MB
 

Jakeroviks

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Thanks metal. I think similar things and agree with a lot of what you said.

What you're saying is completely logical, and it seems that is what has happened. The average quality of women has decreased while the average quality of man is increasing. There are a few other factors that I think have contributed as well.

1) Princess mentality - Young women who are currently in their 20s were by and far raised by their parents to have a high sense of entitlement. Most of the girls I knew growing up were told they were princesses and they could have anything/ could be anything. The latter is true for men as well, but we have to take the hard slap of reality to the face that, no, we can't all be billionaire CEOs. Because these girls are still having men cater to them and fight over them in their 20s, they haven't had to face reality yet. Their egos remain hyperinflated.

2) Safety - One of the main reasons a woman will be with a man, and stay loyal with a man is that he can protect her from danger, be that physical or economic. In the current system there is so much peace and prosperity that there is close to 0 chance of danger. Women don't need a man for safety, nor do they need a man for money, because they can easily support themselves with a job, or even live off of government support. In a less prosperous country like those in Eastern Europe or Southeast Asia, a woman GREATLY benefits from the support of a man and will therefore keep herself fit and attractive so she can keep one. In the USA, they don't need anything from men.

3) Male competition - Due to these factors, average men (and below average men) can't consistently get women and have to work and compete against other men, learning techniques like the ones from this site to get women. It is an arms race to be the most attractive, manly man that outmans all of the other manly men. Despite places like this where we help each other, men will naturally want to beat out the other men and will gladly steal yo girl if it means he gets a little action. Due to the fact that women have higher standards and are lower quality, these men are going to compete more and more strongly to get the fewer and fewer viable females, and some will go walk away from it all, considering it not worth their time.


All of that aside, you're right in that, ultimately the options are there and it's up to the individual man to decide which one to take. Personally, I am VERY competitive, and I want to have an abundance of beautiful women in my life. But I also want to do other things like make money, work on my fitness and improve myself as a man. I don't want to spend my time learning how to appeal to these women in just the right way just so I can get laid.
 

metalbird

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Also, I might add, that it's not necessarily true that the average quality of women is going down in the average quality of men is going up. It's just that the relative average quality difference is widening. it's entirely possible that the quality of men and women are both actually going up, it's just that the quality of men is increasing at an exponentially higher rate. of course, this is entirely subjective, since you can't really quantify these things to that level of modeling.
 

naturalmikey

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men are really competing all wrong for women though. if you wanna play the game everyone else is playing your gonna lose. there's always gonna be higher lms men. everyone is trying for that. men with game is so rare.

also women's are constantly changing what they want and their emotions. a girl can go from being flown over the world in private jets to resenting the guy for acting like he owns her. her next boyfriend could be a starving artist that she takes care of financially. with the first guy she was being nurtured. in the second relationship she was nurturing. all women's needs are double edged swords. women have a need to seduce and be seduced, to love and be loved, to nurture and be nurtured. you could go on forever. it's very rare that she'll meet a man who can fulfill both sides for her. even if she did, the odds of her not growing bored in a monogamous relationship, unless for religious reasons, are very very slim.
 

metalbird

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naturalmikey said:
men are really competing all wrong for women though. if you wanna play the game everyone else is playing your gonna lose. there's always gonna be higher lms men. everyone is trying for that. men with game is so rare.
Really? Maybe I don't know what you mean by "game", but I see lots of guys nowadays with plenty of game. Unless you're referring to some kind of special technique or practice that I'm unfamiliar with?
 

DarkKnight

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Wow this post has become rather interesting. I agree that in the Western Hemisphere girls can be quite stuck up because of the dynamics that you guys provide. But it's not that difficult to elevate yourself from other guys, since most guys act like chumps, dress like chumps. However market dynamics can change expectations of girls, so even when they really like you they can expect you to act like a chump, because that's what they are used to. Annoying really. They should automatically just view us as the princes that we are :). Lol

Metalbird:

I kindly disagree with you mentioning that a lot of guys have game nowadays. Game takes discipline and effort, something which most guys don't have. The usual guy operates from a scarcity mindset and wouldn't dare approaching or opening a girl. The only game concepts which seem to be widespread are "don't be in her friendzone" plus "ignore her" in a totally miscalibrated way.

Rare is the guy who really works on his fundamentals to become a sexy man. When they enter the gym they exit not like athletic men but like stiff random beefheads. Yeah good luck with attracting a small subset of the female population with that result haha. Chase's best articles are those where he uses a lot of words, I know from friends that they simply do not want to read through tons of arcane text despite the golden information which is being provided.

How about the concept of moving fast? Most guys deliberate way too much, screening is impossible for them even to consider. They do not want to lose a girl who is not theirs anyway.

Honestly if you ask me: The competition is pathetic. I rarely encountered a guy who I should be wary about after really developing myself. Most guys are not sexy at all. Somewhere Chase wrote that you can't beat the odds if you are not hungry enough and I really agree. Most guys are not hungry, average results are satifsiying enough for them. So they stop their development. Also I think that the more intelligent male has a higher ceiling with game, since he better knows how to calibrate and can better do post-mortems about past interactions.
 

naturalmikey

Cro-Magnon Man
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metalbird said:
naturalmikey said:
men are really competing all wrong for women though. if you wanna play the game everyone else is playing your gonna lose. there's always gonna be higher lms men. everyone is trying for that. men with game is so rare.
Really? Maybe I don't know what you mean by "game", but I see lots of guys nowadays with plenty of game. Unless you're referring to some kind of special technique or practice that I'm unfamiliar with?
i go out mostly in venice and santa monica ca and can say with certainty that it’s rare to meet a guy with game. i know a couple naturals, but that’s it. in hollywood nightclubs it’s more common. lots of fuckboys. but i don’t think that’s indicitive of the general population.
 
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