Improving Openers

[Wick]

I've been experimenting with indirect openers and pre-openers, and I've found that they are working nicely. The problem is that I often won't have something to say right away, and then waste time.

Anyone else run into this? What do I do, just work on improving my improv and spontaneity? I think improving other areas of my life is helping me do this, by giving me more confidence.

I also am starting to see the importance of structuring direct openers better. In one of Chase's recent articles (maybe a few months old now), he mentioned how many direct day gamers will open with "hey I thought you were cute so I wanted to say hi". This is kind of jarring to girls and doesn't start things off well.

If instead you structure it more like "Hey, I saw you walk by and.... I had to tell you something... You have blah blah"

I'm wondering what other variations on this structure could work besides the above. Any thoughts?

P.S.

Was at the gym today, and I had nothing to say to two cuties there. I don't want to keep being a bitch about this. I can tell part of the strength of the opener is having confidence in holding the conversation. I put my all into the gym and work, and I wonder if that's sapping my energy for game.

 

[Rakehell]

I definitely can relate to your problem. I think it’s because going direct isn’t always good for the conversational flow.

For example even when a girl compliments me, it’s often hard to segway that into a conversation on my end. So I know girls must feel the same even if they are attracted.

Plus if you’re used to getting complimented you immediately respond with a thank you or however you usually respond to compliments from people.

I see this in myself and women surely get complimented more than I do on a daily basis.

With this in mind it’s probably best to elaborate on whatever your direct opener was so that they have a chance to think of a non autopilot response.

It should be a back and forth interaction with both of you thinking of what to say next, but since you’re leading the convo you have to give them more to work with.

 

[Wick]

Right. Indirect is starting a conversation. Direct is the excuse for running up to her.

I don't want to get wrapped up in the technical, because vibe and fundamentals are king. But the thing is, having openers sorted out in my mind makes it easier to just do it.

The worst is sitting there trying to figure out what to say. I don't even let myself go there anymore. I either approach or forget her. 5 mins of deliberating just psyches me out. Sometimes I will still approach 5 mins later, but it's because I've let go.

 

[Rakehell]

hahaha I agree, if you wait too long you’ll undergo what they call “paralysis by analysis”.

It can hurt your vibe if you charge in without knowing what to say as well so it’s a double whammy.

It’s always best when what to say comes to you naturally but in those situations where it doesn’t.

Pick something out unique to her that wouldn’t be creepy in that environment, comment on it, then go into further detail.

A gym one would be “Hey…. excuse me….can i just say that…you have one of….the most….stylish….gym outfits…that i’ve ever seen.” playfully

After her response almost ignoring her go into complete detail about whatever she’s wearing and what it does for her so that she can settle into talking with you.

Use that as a segway to lead the convo to wherever u want.

Gym is hard for direct because you dont want to be perceived as having been watching her. It has to be spontaneous and almost instantly after noticing her (in her head).

Believe it or not alot of girls are on guard in the gym because alot of no game super buff guys try hitting on them in ways that make it seem like they’d been watching her workout and navigate the gym without her knowing.

 

[Wick]

Believe it or not alot of girls are on guard in the gym because alot of no game super buff guys try hitting on them in ways that make it seem like they’d been watching her workout and navigate the gym without her knowing.

I like noticing how every man tries to hide the fact that they are VERY aware of her. Pretending to not be interested is a sign of interest that can be picked up on. So I try not to do the same. Either I ignore her or I open. In theory lol

A gym one would be “Hey…. excuse me….can i just say that…you have one of….the most….stylish….gym outfits…that i’ve ever seen.” playfully

Yeah I mean I thought about this one, but it felt a little too risky for me and a little too much putting her on the stop. My dirty mind interprets it as, DAMN, you look fine in that little gym outfit" so my vibe would come off poor when I'm not in the right now (like today).

 

[Skjöldr]

A gym one would be “Hey…. excuse me….can i just say that…you have one of….the most….stylish….gym outfits…that i’ve ever seen.” playfully

what if she wears basic stuff like yoga pants, a t-shirt and black sneakers? you want something you can fall back on like what i say in the gym "Hey i don't think i've seen you around before, what's your name?" or "Hey i think i've seen you around before, what's your name?" Easy peasy. Problem with too fancy openers is that it makes it sound like you need to justify that you talk to her. You don't. You just saw her, got curious and wanted to chat her up (this is not an advocation of meme game like "Just talk to her like a normal person bro" this is purely about the opener). Ofc your mid-game is still gonna be some juicy stuff, but the opener is just a spring board to that. The opener itself doesn't have to be fancy. I won't go too deep into gym game here, but i can elaborate if you want....


OP:
I use a wide variety of openers for different situations:

1. On my bike/running:
   1. "Hey, i know this is really random, but i just drove/ran past you but i think you are pretty cute so i had to turn around and say hi"
   2. "Wooow you dropped something" ... "Just kidding, i just thought you were quite cute and i had to say hi"
2. Working out outside doing calisthenics:
   1. "Excuse me hi, i know this is really random, but i was working out over there when you walked past and i thought you looked quite cute so i had to come say hi"
3. In the gym:
   1. "Hey i don't think i've seen you around before, what's your name?"
   2. "Hey i think i've seen you around before, what's your name?"
4. In the grocery store
   1. *make a joke* "Just kidding i thought you were quite pretty/cute and i wanted to say hi" i.e. "Hey, do you know why it's called potato bread? Is it potatoes made from bread or bread made from potatoes?" "Just kidding..."
5. Walking daygame
   1. Standard compliment opener
   2. "Hey, i need to ask you something ... My friend told me that girls don't like guys with red hair, what do you think?" blah blah "Aww thanks, i think you're cute too, what's your name?"
   3. "Hey, i need to ask you something ... My friend told me that i'm not handsome enough to get a date, what do you think?" blah blah "Aww thanks, that's what my grandma always told me as well, she always said Phoenix was such a good, handsome boy, what's your name? Ah (name) i think you are quite pretty as well blah blah?"
6. Stationary daygame
   1. Open situationally and then lead into reality pacing. I had a hard time wrapping my head around this to begin with but basically you just share your insights with her in a juicy way i.e. "Hey i just noticed something ... Have you noticed how quiet the park is tonight? ... Yeah yeah, also, have you noticed that when you're sitting/walking around while the park is quiet it's like... your mind feels more calm and you feel more open minded and start thinking deeper about things around you, because you are not as distracted by the enviroment (i completely made this up writing this dont judge, but you get the idea). If she's standing on the side of a busy street with her phone you can talk about how when you observe all this foot traffic in the city you realize how quickly life goes by before your eyes and you have to live in the now and act in the moment (another made up thing). From here i just do normal daygame.
7. Nightgame:
   1. Walking: "Hey wow! i need to ask you something really important ... how's your night going?"
   2. Stationary: "How's your night going?"
   3. In nightgame it's easier for me to free style but i will fall back on those^ i might even go direct, but then i prefer opening indirect and then calibrate on her vibe, and if it's strong, i will show intent faster...

Hope that helps

 

[Wick]

"Hey i don't think i've seen you around before, what's your name?"

BINGO. Duh. Thank you, I knew I was overthinking things. But see here, this opener has some context to why you're opening her and it helps it "make sense" to do so.

Ofc your mid-game is still gonna be some juicy stuff,

My mid-game gets fucked up by my anxiety. Not even about the girl, but "am I going hard enough or too hard because I have to study some hard shit after this, is talking to a girl right now a waste of time when I have some bigger fish to fry"

The opener itself doesn't have to be fancy.

You're right. When I'm in the right mood, my brilliant opener is "hi" and it's fucking fabulous.

Hope that helps

All that does help.

But in all honesty, I think it's my anxiety like I mentioned. I need to chill out, but I also need to step it up.

I've just got into a bunch of personal projects like building a new skill, getting back into game, hitting the gym, kicking bad habits, and perhaps it's just some growing pains from having a lot on my plate. The good thing is, that it's great stuff on my plate.

 

[Rakehell]

.

But in all honesty, I think it's my anxiety like I mentioned. I need to chill out, but I also need to step it up.

I've just got into a bunch of personal projects like building a new skill, getting back into game, hitting the gym, kicking bad habits, and perhaps it's just some growing pains from having a lot on my plate. The good thing is, that it's great stuff on my plate.

Do you drink pre workout/coffee or anything caffeinated? Great for mental sharpness and waking up but I hear it encourages anxiety in anxiety prone people.

I think alot about the future too and if ur prone to overthinking I’ve heard that caffeine can accelerate the occurrence of those thoughts.

Something to consider

 

[Wick]

Do you drink pre workout/coffee or anything caffeinated? Great for mental sharpness and waking up but I hear it encourages anxiety in anxiety prone people.

I think alot about the future too and if ur prone to overthinking I’ve heard that caffeine can accelerate the occurrence of those thoughts.

Something to consider

I love coffee, but it makes things worse.

I'm certain my anxiety and brain fog comes from porn. I'm addicted to it, in all seriousness. I've been trying to cut it out for a long long time, and when I do my game improves (everything in life improves). Recently I'm made some strides in recovery. And it's helping me.

But the thing is I'm very high sex drive anyway, plus porn addicted. Makes me thirsty as fuck. I'm very fortunate that my brain knows what real women are and I have healthy relationships with them. It just makes me fuck up the "front end game" basically selling myself (fundamentals) and early attraction. I keep women around once they know me. And I still can pick up girls limping from porn. Just don't want to limp around anymore.

 

[Rakehell]

Oh yeah(not to topic jump but its important to me), a trick I use is putting accountability on myself. It really depends on your personality but i’m alot more likely to take action when Im held accountable.

I do this by telling someone very close to me my plan of action. That way even if they never ask about it again, in my mind, i’ve told someone what I plan on doing.

And im the type of person who really really sticks to their word so when someone else knows what I plan on doing I’m much more likely to do it.

For example if you have a brother or someone who’s opinion you really value, tell them what you plan on doing. In this case dumb it down for people who wouldn’t be open minded to something like pickup.

“dude, can i be real with you”

“i honestly suck at talking to people lately”

“theres so much stuff on my plate i cant focus on the convo”

“i think im gonna really lock in and handle that so i can have some peace of mind”

something along those lines

again its a personality thing but this really gets me to do things i’ve been dawdling on. This helped me beat my approach anxiety earlier on by betting my friends I could get more numbers than them.

for porn, I mean everyone watches porn or has watched it at some point and it can be a normal topic of conversation.

you could do the same for porn theoretically but be careful because I wouldn’t want people thinking im some porn monster hahaha

maybe try going cold turkey on the porn by yourself

 

[Starboy]

I'm trying to work on my indirect openers too. It's just really hard to indirect on a sidewalk with no context at all. Especially when the girl is walking and on her way somewhere. I will also struggle with followup too after opening. I found that if you don't have anything to say and you tell a girl wait in a non needy way she will stick around for a moment or two. What have you found that has worked for you too so far?

Yeah I can understand how porn affects your game. I've been able to approach even after jerking off to porn the day before so I can get that excuse out the way. I will still appreciate the way real women look, but it's still much better to not indulge in it as its just a handicap. I find if I nofap for very long then I will feel more masculine and proud,but also a little antsy and jittery even.

 

[Wick]

I'm trying to work on my indirect openers too. It's just really hard to indirect on a sidewalk with no context at all. Especially when the girl is walking and on her way somewhere. I will also struggle with followup too after opening. I found that if you don't have anything to say and you tell a girl wait in a non needy way she will stick around for a moment or two. What have you found that has worked for you too so far?

Usually when it happens on the sidewalk, you're walking next to each other. I use indirect in places where people are stationary or slow moving. Hard to do it on the street.

I've been able to approach even after jerking off to porn the day before so I can get that excuse out the way.

Right it doesn't stop me, just throws me off.

I find if I nofap for very long then I will feel more masculine and proud,but also a little antsy and jittery even.

I think the trick is to learn sexual transmutation. There is a way to bring that energy from the balls up the body, and then the energy has other outlets like creativity and thought. Don't ask me how to do it though

And im the type of person who really really sticks to their word so when someone else knows what I plan on doing I’m much more likely to do it.

I value sticking to my word, unfortunately it doesn't work for me. I'm a good enough smooth talker that I can excuse myself from my commitment, and that weakens it's power to keep my committed. In fact I am superstitious and think that I jinx shit when I talk about it. My thinking goes that if I care about it, I will do it whether or not anyone knows about it. Interesting how different folks use different strokes.

maybe try going cold turkey on the porn by yourself

What's been working for me is watching Andrew Tate call me a bitch for doing depressing shit, and then when I feel like jerking off I tell myself "Don't be a bitch!"

 

[José enrique]

This is a straightforward Opener that leads to good answers:

Today is a good day to meet a lovely [physical trait + clothing/accessories ].


Example: "Today is a good day to meet a lovely brunette in a red dress."

"Today is a good day to meet a lovely brunette with tattoos."

 

[SexualHero]

Hey there I agree that indirect openers work better when doing daygame. I wrote a more detailed comment about it

Socializing - How To Increase Open Ratios With Girls In Groups Or Girls Who Are Walking

Hi everyone, There is much written about how to cold approach more smoothly instead of going direct with a compliment, and recent articles like this from Daniel Adebayo and this from Allen Reyes are really helpful. They entail getting her attention or approach invitation first, before looking...

www.skilledseducer.com

Some other daygame openers I use
There is something intriguing about you I couldn't just let you walk by
You look really confident whats your secret ?
Have you ever seen someone you'd like to talk to, and didn't, and kind of regretted that afterwards ?
I like your sense of style, do you keep up with the trends or do your own thing ?

 

[Starboy]

Hey there I agree that indirect openers work better when doing daygame. I wrote a more detailed comment about it

Socializing - How To Increase Open Ratios With Girls In Groups Or Girls Who Are Walking

Hi everyone, There is much written about how to cold approach more smoothly instead of going direct with a compliment, and recent articles like this from Daniel Adebayo and this from Allen Reyes are really helpful. They entail getting her attention or approach invitation first, before looking...

www.skilledseducer.com

Some other daygame openers I use
There is something intriguing about you I couldn't just let you walk by
You look really confident whats your secret ?
Have you ever seen someone you'd like to talk to, and didn't, and kind of regretted that afterwards ?
I like your sense of style, do you keep up with the trends or do your own thing ?

do you do this strictly on girls who are stationary or moving slow or have these worked for girls walking in street daygame? I live in a fast paced city where girls can be in a rush to get to places so indirect doesn't always hook these girls because they don't know what the guy wants and thinks he's just making a passingby comment.

 

[SexualHero]

Both. If you are interested in strictly stationary girls, then I suggest to read stuff Bacchus have written on the topic. You are not going to find better advice anywhere As for moving girls, you have to stop them before using these openers or it won't work. You can use a pre-opener like "Excuse me, do you have a minute" or "Hey, quick question" or any variation of it. Once girl is stopped and facing you, then you use these openers. Body language is also important. Dont try to open too late, when she is almost past you. If she is walking the same way, I usually run to catch up, and stop a little bit ahead of her, this get them to stop too usually. If you don't have these basics down, maybe try to find youtube video on the subject

 

[Wick]

You look really confident whats your secret ?

Have you ever seen someone you'd like to talk to, and didn't, and kind of regretted that afterwards ?

These are great. I could see myself saying these with confidence because they are things I would actually say considering my personality and so I will have some good follow up conversation.

Perhaps here are some elements of a good opener.

1. Socially acceptable enough and reason eneough to be useful as the first thing to say to someone
2. yet hook her with an interesting enough prompt
3. be something that would set up a conversation on a topic you actually have a lot to say on.
4. Calibrated to the current movement and environment

As for moving girls, you have to stop them before using these openers or it won't work. You can use a pre-opener like "Excuse me, do you have a minute" or "Hey, quick question" or any variation of it. Once girl is stopped and facing you, then you use these openers.

I've found the lower the pressure the comment, the easier it is to maintain a conversation. These make more sense for stationary situations. But they don't really have much potency on their own. The benefit is that since your stationary you probably have a little more time to follow it up good game.

For fast movers, you kind of need a higher pressure comment, you wouldn't stop someone just to ask, "Nice day out, We live in paradise don't we?"

But that would be fine to say in line at a food truck, or at the beach chilling on your towels.

So a fast mover needs a more pressing reason. This is a good example from @SexualHero "Have you ever seen someone you'd like to talk to, and didn't, and kind of regretted that afterwards ?". The pressing reason is "life is too short for regrets"

This next one seems like it's best for slow movers/stationary. "You look really confident whats your secret ?" No pressing reason, just curiousity.

Thoughts on my thoughts?

Btw, thanks @Surveyor for liking some posts here, it notified me and I forgot about this gem of a thread. Glad to have found it again, I'll need it soon.

 

[SexualHero]

So a fast mover needs a more pressing reason. This is a good example from @SexualHero "Have you ever seen someone you'd like to talk to, and didn't, and kind of regretted that afterwards ?". The pressing reason is "life is too short for regrets"

This next one seems like it's best for slow movers/stationary. "You look really confident whats your secret ?" No pressing reason, just curiousity.

Thoughts on my thoughts?

Btw, thanks @Surveyor for liking some posts here, it notified me and I forgot about this gem of a thread. Glad to have found it again, I'll need it soon.

I am glad you liked my openers ! I didn't see any difference between these 2 openers when stopping women on the street. Like I said I usually use something else to make her stop and draw her attention to me, like "hey do you have a second" or "hey quick question" or something like that. I call it pre opener. Its something I only use when girl is moving, otherwise its not necessary