Investment Scales in a Relationship

[moom]

How do you gauge investment in a relationship?

You guys on the forum have been so gracious about that helping me through other aspects of the relationship, I figure I would ask more questions as your perspectives have really helped my relationship blossom.

I read this article by Chase:

How Much Should You Do for a Girlfriend? The Investment Scales

What’s the right amount to do for a girl you date? How do you know if you invest too much or too little? Two measures: boredom and neglect. Commenting on my article “Early Boyfriend Distinction – She Helps You vs. You Help Her”, a reader asks (emphasis added): “Thanks for another insight article...

www.girlschase.com

Trying to keep investment at a 4:5 ratio with her investing more, although keeping count feels autistic lol.

Thing is, her and I invest in different ways. I make about 8 times more money than she does so I find myself paying for about 80% of our outings, except dinners which we tend to keep fairly even. I like going out much more than she does so I bring her along and pay for drinks, entry, etc. It's not that she won't pay... If I ask her to pay for something, she will without a second thought. Thing is though, we discussed this recently and she stressed that she can't keep up with my lifestyle (I spend alot of money) but doesn't say anything, so I've actually paid for things more recently since I want her to save money for a trip were going to be taking in a few months. I also do little things like guide her on the business side of her art, and generally provide tons of good feelings, adventures, phenomenal sex, and quality time.

In turn, she invests in tons of other ways. She cooks us meals, she does my laundry like once a week, cleans my room, even bathes me if/when we shower together lol. She 9/10 times texts or calls first. She comes over to my place 9/10 times, not me coming over to her place. She always brings over little gifts, food, flowers, writes cards for me, planned a surprise trip for my birthday, and will generally do ANYTHING I ask her to. Literally I don't think has ever said no to any sort of investment I've asked from her.

So when the investment we have in each other is so different, how do I keep my investment 80% of hers? Our love languages are similar except she cares about words of affirmation much more than I do.

Thanks guys

 

[TomInHo]

IMO I think you're actually doing a little too much.

You need to understand why you should be investing a little less than your woman, and that's to make her feel like she is winning you over. Because even deep into a relationship your woman can only feel passionate love for you if she feels a little out of control

And investment is one way to do that. Plus it also acts as a tool to make her second guess ejecting out of the relationship. Because if she is highly invested, she will not want to leave easily because she had to work so hard to keep you, and will backward rationalize that she did all those things for you because she truly loved you for you

This is why it's usually very easy for women to eject from relationships with provider type guys that overindulged them with good feelings, but struggle to let go of the bad boy lover that blew hot and cold, yet forced them to work hard to keep the relationship going... Sunk-Cost Fallacy at it's finest

So @moom I suggest you dampen down your investment, and focus on doing things that both of you enjoy. And only ramp it up when you see more investment from her

Because if you keep going at this rate, don't be surprised if she starts investing less over time

 

[moom]

Thanks for your answer @TomInHo I can already feel a little less auto investment on her side hence why I feel the need to even it out.

So you're suggesting, stop going to outings where I'm paying for her, stop helping her with her art, and just focus on things that we both enjoy? While also focusing on ramping up her investment?

 

[ulrich]

I would say effort.

You can’t compare from a money standpoint due to this enormous income difference.

What you should be asking is who is putting more effort in this relationship and who is going out of his/her way to make this work.
60% of the time (or more) it should be her.

 

[TomInHo]

Thanks for your answer @TomInHo I can already feel a little less auto investment on her side hence why I feel the need to even it out.

So you're suggesting, stop going to outings where I'm paying for her, stop helping her with her art, and just focus on things that we both enjoy? While also focusing on ramping up her investment?

Yes!

You can also flip it. Make her do something to help your business, just make sure it's something very trivial and not super important, so that if the relationship ends its not a big deal

She already told you the outings were too much, so it's obvious she doesn't even value that type of investment. So stop that immediately and do that on your own time

Stop paying for everything because 80% is a lot. I've run multi year relationships were the girl payed 80% of the time even when I made more money than her. In an extreme case I once had and MLTR take me out on her 30th birthday and she paid for everything, just wanted me to be around to share her special day with her

Think about it long and hard and I'm sure you can find ways to lower your investment and raise hers, and as a nice side effect it would also help in leveling out your emotions to make better decisions on managing the relationship

 

[topcat]

To add to what @TomInHo said.

A woman requires progression in a relationship for it to feel worthwhile long term.

A primary way for a woman to feel progression in a relationship is to have her increased investment be met with reciprocal reward and investment from her man.

If you are already maxing out your investment early on in your relationship, you have very little wiggle room to increase investment on your part without burning out.

It also dampens the impact of any investment you do make in reward, given she is accustomed to high levels of investment as a baseline.

Under promise, over deliver.

Right now you’re over promising and overdelivering, but what happens when you can’t maintain it? You will get tired/sick or have other priorities eventually. At that point she’ll feel like “you’ve changed” and not for the better..

If you must pull back now do so tactfully, incrementally in a way that feels incidental so she won’t notice nor pin it on you. All the while making sure you continue to leave her feeling cherished in ways that require less overt effort on your part, but have maximal emotional affect on hers.

 

[TomInHo]

To add to what @TomInHo said.

A woman requires progression in a relationship for it to feel worthwhile long term.

A primary way for a woman to feel progression in a relationship is to have her increased investment be met with reciprocal reward and investment from her man.

If you are already maxing out your investment early on in your relationship, you have very little wiggle room to increase investment on your part without burning out.

It also removes the impact of any investment you do make in reward, given she is accustomed to high levels of investment as a baseline.

Under promise, over deliver.

Right now you’re over promising and overdelivering, but what happens when you can’t maintain it? You will get tired/sick or have other priorities eventually. At that point she’ll feel like “you’ve changed” and not for the better..

If you must pull back now do so tactfully, incrementally in a way that feels incidental so she won’t notice nor pin it on you. All the while making sure you continue to leave her feeling cherished in ways that require less overt effort on your part, but have maximal emotional affect on hers.

This is the way

 

[moom]

Thank you for your answers guys, got some great stuff here to work with. The trick now is going to be knowing how to tactfully lower investment incrementally, while increasing hers and still making her feel cherished.

I think everything we do together from
here on will be financially mutual. Im going to have her do things for my business if I help her with hers. I need to think of ways to increase her invest outside of what she does as well.

Lets see how it goes.

 

[ulrich]

Stop paying for everything because 80% is a lot. I've run multi year relationships were the girl payed 80% of the time even when I made more money than her. In an extreme case I once had and MLTR take me out on her 30th birthday and she paid for everything, just wanted me to be around to share her special day with her

Do you ever run into problems with such investments imbalances?

My instincts tell me that women in such relationships will love you deeply when all is good and totally hate your guts when something goes wrong but I’d like to hear your experience.

 

[topcat]

My instincts tell me that women in such relationships will love you deeply when all is good and totally hate your guts when something goes wrong but I’d like to hear your experience.

Not addressed to me but i’ll chime in anyway. Hope you don’t mind!

The only ways i see it backfiring is if you..

1. are uncharacteristically inattentive and suddenly fail to adequately reward her investment.

2. you become somebody she deems unworthy of her investment (you become a pussy/start simping/get needy) at which point she’ll be disgusted with herself and wonder what on earth she was thinking falling for a wet napkin like you.

3. Another minor issue might be if other close females, say a sister, mother or close girlfriend get in her ear, which may manifest in the odd strop or tantrum, but these are easily handled.

 

[TomInHo]

Do you ever run into problems with such investments imbalances?

My instincts tell me that women in such relationships will love you deeply when all is good and totally hate your guts when something goes wrong but I’d like to hear your experience.

My first few relationships were like that. They would blow up at me because they felt like they couldn't get what they wanted and I wasn't putting in effort

But it got better when I switched my mindset and made them feel like I cherished everything they did for me, and incrementally increased my investment over time. So they invest, then I invest but just a little less.... aka BE GRACIOUS

It may sound crazy, but it works.

I recently took an MLTR that I've been seeing for nine months to Jack-in-the-Box, and she was over the moon happy, because prior to that point I only took her out twice for coffee and a hike. While she's been slathering me with compliments, giving me massages, cleaning my room, cooking, engaging in a lot of my sexual fantasies and driving hundreds of miles to come see me sometimes

Women love relationships that they have to work for more than most guys realize, and you can get very far with great sex and conversation that emotionally stimulates her while making her feel special before piling on all that extra stuff

Don't believe? Read a few romance novels and you'll see this is an emotional/sexual fantasy for a lot of women

But to be fair my relationship goals may be different than other guys, because I don't care about having one woman that's forever loyal to me, but a harem of lovers that I keep in a constant state of excitement while giving them the freedom to revolve in and out of my life indefinitely

It's very similar to pimp game, but sadly every girl has her hoe-mileage and at some point they may go to a man that is more stable. But funny thing is they always seem to cum back for more when they're bored with him

 

[moom]

My first few relationships were like that. They would blow up at me because they felt like they couldn't get what they wanted and I wasn't putting in effort

But it got better when I switched my mindset and made them feel like I cherished everything they did for me, and incrementally increased my investment over time. So they invest, then I invest but just a little less.... aka BE GRACIOUS

It may sound crazy, but it works.

I recently took an MLTR that I've been seeing for nine months to Jack-in-the-Box, and she was over the moon happy, because prior to that point I only took her out twice for coffee and a hike. While she's been slathering me with compliments, giving me massages, cleaning my room, cooking, engaging in a lot of my sexual fantasies and driving hundreds of miles to come see me sometimes

Women love relationships that they have to work for more than most guys realize, and you can get very far with great sex and conversation that emotionally stimulates her while making her feel special before piling on all that extra stuff

Don't believe? Read a few romance novels and you'll see this is an emotional/sexual fantasy for a lot of women

But to be fair my relationship goals may be different than other guys, because I don't care about having one woman that's forever loyal to me, but a harem of lovers that I keep in a constant state of excitement while giving them the freedom to revolve in and out of my life indefinitely

It's very similar to pimp game, but sadly every girl has there hoe-mileage and at some point they may go to man that is more stable. But funny thing is they always seem to cum back for more when they're bored with him

Lol at Jack in the box, just made me feel like im doing WAYYY too much in the relationship. My problem is I love constantly being on the go trying new experiences, and I like spending time with my girl so naturally I bring her along which ends up with me paying for things.

You gave me a nice list there though of ways to get investment "giving me massages, cleaning my room, cooking, engaging in a lot of my sexual fantasies" etc. Are these things you're asking for or is she auto-investing? And do you have any others to add to this list? I'm drawing a little blank here. It feels weird for me to go "hey babe, bring some flowers please and come give me a massage, ive had a stressful day." But if it works and I'm overthinking it, then I'll be happy to do it

 

[Skills]

How do you gauge investment in a relationship?

You guys on the forum have been so gracious about that helping me through other aspects of the relationship, I figure I would ask more questions as your perspectives have really helped my relationship blossom.

I read this article by Chase:

How Much Should You Do for a Girlfriend? The Investment Scales

What’s the right amount to do for a girl you date? How do you know if you invest too much or too little? Two measures: boredom and neglect. Commenting on my article “Early Boyfriend Distinction – She Helps You vs. You Help Her”, a reader asks (emphasis added): “Thanks for another insight article...

www.girlschase.com

Trying to keep investment at a 4:5 ratio with her investing more, although keeping count feels autistic lol.

Thing is, her and I invest in different ways. I make about 8 times more money than she does so I find myself paying for about 80% of our outings, except dinners which we tend to keep fairly even. I like going out much more than she does so I bring her along and pay for drinks, entry, etc. It's not that she won't pay... If I ask her to pay for something, she will without a second thought. Thing is though, we discussed this recently and she stressed that she can't keep up with my lifestyle (I spend alot of money) but doesn't say anything, so I've actually paid for things more recently since I want her to save money for a trip were going to be taking in a few months. I also do little things like guide her on the business side of her art, and generally provide tons of good feelings, adventures, phenomenal sex, and quality time.

In turn, she invests in tons of other ways. She cooks us meals, she does my laundry like once a week, cleans my room, even bathes me if/when we shower together lol. She 9/10 times texts or calls first. She comes over to my place 9/10 times, not me coming over to her place. She always brings over little gifts, food, flowers, writes cards for me, planned a surprise trip for my birthday, and will generally do ANYTHING I ask her to. Literally I don't think has ever said no to any sort of investment I've asked from her.

So when the investment we have in each other is so different, how do I keep my investment 80% of hers? Our love languages are similar except she cares about words of affirmation much more than I do.

Thanks guys

Moon if you make more money this is fine cause you enjoy and she will not be able to keep up.. . She is cooking, laundry, cleaning... you are fine i would even go as far as even pay the dinners, cause you want... this is a total missunderstanding of dynamics... the problem is when she is expecting or if you are doing for something in return....

 

[moom]

Moon if you make more money this is fine cause you enjoy and she will not be able to keep up.. . She is cooking, laundry, cleaning... you are fine i would even go as far as even pay the dinners, cause you want... this is a total missunderstanding of dynamics... the problem is when she is expecting or if you are doing for something in return....

Explain this more- she is never expecting anything and I do out of my own accord simply because i make 8x what she makes.

Should name a few more things here:
1) She makes 2500 a month and 1500 a month goes to rent that she pays literally to move closer to me (she used to live 45 min away and now lives 10 min away) out of that 1000, she uses like half to fuel her art hobby and the other half to save and spend on us
2) my name is tatted on her ass lol (alcohol + self-tattoo kit)

I mean she invests as much as she can and never says no to anything i ask to even pay for (i had to literally get it out of her by asking repeatedly what was wrong one day for her to tell me that she’s really worried about her money situation)

But isnt it still me investing more and thus tipping it into her side if im spending all the money on our outings?

 

[moom]

Gotta love every thread I make always has opposing view points, everything @topcat and @TomInHo have said above fall in line with what Chase teaches but what @Skills says also makes sense in the aspect of what the intention behind such an investment imbalance is.

Either way, im not liking how the investment scales are lining up lately in the relationship, hence why im asking this question

 

[TomInHo]

Explain this more- she is never expecting anything and I do out of my own accord simply because i make 8x what she makes.

Should name a few more things here:
1) She makes 2500 a month and 1500 a month goes to rent that she pays literally to move closer to me (she used to live 45 min away and now lives 10 min away) out of that 1000, she uses like half to fuel her art hobby and the other half to save and spend on us
2) my name is tatted on her ass lol (alcohol + self-tattoo kit)

I mean she invests as much as she can and never says no to anything i ask to even pay for (i had to literally get it out of her by asking repeatedly what was wrong one day for her to tell me that she’s really worried about her money situation)

But isnt it still me investing more and thus tipping it into her side if im spending all the money on our outings?

Honestly, this is even more reason for you to lower the investment. Both of you are going nuts. She's trying so hard to keep up with you, and you're also trying way too hard to raise the bar even higher.

I bet both of you are beginning to get emotionally exhausted

There's a reason why they say relationships that burn twice as bright, burn half as long. Because yes, must of us would love to be in a relationship that is passionate, but as the leader you get to decide if it's going to be hard and fast or a slow building ember that makes both of you feel like it was destiny.

Pace out your bursts of passion over the long run, rather than super hot flashes if you care about longevity.

Because after a while all these things both of you are doing will become mundane and then you will realize that you are both in over your heads, since it's too hard to keep this kind of passion up, especially at your pace forever

It's better to start slow and ramp things up as time progresses, because from my experience that tends to keep the in-love feelings going longer while helping you keep your sanity

 

[topcat]

Gotta love every thread I make always has opposing view points, everything @topcat and @TomInHo have said above fall in line with what Chase teaches but what @Skills says also makes sense in the aspect of what the intention behind such an investment imbalance is.

Either way, im not liking how the investment scales are lining up lately in the relationship, hence why im asking this question

@Skills method isn’t really in disagreement with either mine nor @TomInHo feedback. It boils down to how much the investment means to you. If it’s a gesture you’d do just because and doesn’t stretch you much if at all - then it’s not really an investment now is it?

 

[ulrich]

Not addressed to me but i’ll chime in anyway. Hope you don’t mind!

The only ways i see it backfiring is if you..

1. are uncharacteristically inattentive and suddenly fail to adequately reward her investment.

2. you become somebody she deems unworthy of her investment (you become a pussy/start simping/get needy) at which point she’ll be disgusted with herself and wonder what on earth she was thinking falling for a wet napkin like you.

3. Another minor issue might be if other close females, say a sister, mother or close girlfriend get in her ear, which may manifest in the odd strop or tantrum, but these are easily handled.

My first few relationships were like that. They would blow up at me because they felt like they couldn't get what they wanted and I wasn't putting in effort

But it got better when I switched my mindset and made them feel like I cherished everything they did for me, and incrementally increased my investment over time. So they invest, then I invest but just a little less.... aka BE GRACIOUS

It may sound crazy, but it works.

I recently took an MLTR that I've been seeing for nine months to Jack-in-the-Box, and she was over the moon happy, because prior to that point I only took her out twice for coffee and a hike. While she's been slathering me with compliments, giving me massages, cleaning my room, cooking, engaging in a lot of my sexual fantasies and driving hundreds of miles to come see me sometimes

Women love relationships that they have to work for more than most guys realize, and you can get very far with great sex and conversation that emotionally stimulates her while making her feel special before piling on all that extra stuff

Don't believe? Read a few romance novels and you'll see this is an emotional/sexual fantasy for a lot of women

But to be fair my relationship goals may be different than other guys, because I don't care about having one woman that's forever loyal to me, but a harem of lovers that I keep in a constant state of excitement while giving them the freedom to revolve in and out of my life indefinitely

It's very similar to pimp game, but sadly every girl has her hoe-mileage and at some point they may go to a man that is more stable. But funny thing is they always seem to cum back for more when they're bored with him

Thanks, guys @topcat @TomInHo

You give me a lot to think of.
I’d like to experiment this angle of low investment with slow but undenible progression. This thread got me excited.

 

[Skills]

Explain this more- she is never expecting anything and I do out of my own accord simply because i make 8x what she makes.

Should name a few more things here:
1) She makes 2500 a month and 1500 a month goes to rent that she pays literally to move closer to me (she used to live 45 min away and now lives 10 min away) out of that 1000, she uses like half to fuel her art hobby and the other half to save and spend on us
2) my name is tatted on her ass lol (alcohol + self-tattoo kit)

I mean she invests as much as she can and never says no to anything i ask to even pay for (i had to literally get it out of her by asking repeatedly what was wrong one day for her to tell me that she’s really worried about her money situation)

But isnt it still me investing more and thus tipping it into her side if im spending all the money on our outings?

i don't worry about such things, i have couple of wings that are extremely wealthy they use their money as "enjoyment" there are expensive things they like to do, if women don't have the money, day pay.... I am the same way when i have money, but my GOING IN, the relationships is based on a lover dynamic, raw sexual attraction...

Moon you tend to have a tendency to be so over analytical in sexual dynamics (such as your sexual post), again this is flawed view of seduction and relationships...

The point a lot of seducers are paranoid about "spending" "paying" etc... Comes from the view of "buying affection" "Manipulation" "nice guy behavior" "Transactional relationship"

If the girl is already invested, she is doing things for you that transalate into investment and effort such as laundry, cleaning, cooking etc... moving close to you etc... this is more than enough proof that is based on lover raw sexual attraction...

The idea you like to do fancy things that she can't afford and you paying for it and bothering you, is autistic dude.... This is coming from a dude that gets in relationship with high ernears that have assets 3 to 4 times my assets... and pay and stuff...

I tend to pay a lot in the relationships when they are invested cause even though they are higher earners, my expenses are minimal to none existant so i technically have more disposable income... I will give you an example of my dynamics... if i go out saturday i pay... if we go out sundays she pays (mains).... With fb i usually pay but with fb you are not doing courtship dating...

Watch this video (i dont think you are doing any of the mention in the video, so don't worry and overanalize stuff like the op, women will sense when you get into this micro management, calculating dynmaics, this is a huge turn off, and bad in seduction...) this is coming from a dude that has lived of women, your focus is off....

 

[moom]

i don't worry about such things, i have couple of wings that are extremely wealthy they use their money as "enjoyment" there are expensive things they like to do, if women don't have the money, day pay.... I am the same way when i have money, but my GOING IN, the relationships is based on a lover dynamic, raw sexual attraction...

Moon you tend to have a tendency to be so over analytical in sexual dynamics (such as your sexual post), again this is flawed view of seduction and relationships...

The point a lot of seducers are paranoid about "spending" "paying" etc... Comes from the view of "buying affection" "Manipulation" "nice guy behavior" "Transactional relationship"

If the girl is already invested, she is doing things for you that transalate into investment and effort such as laundry, cleaning, cooking etc... moving close to you etc... this is more than enough proof that is based on lover raw sexual attraction...

The idea you like to do fancy things that she can't afford and you paying for it and bothering you, is autistic dude.... This is coming from a dude that gets in relationship with high ernears that have assets 3 to 4 times my assets... and pay and stuff...

I tend to pay a lot in the relationships when they are invested cause even though they are higher earners, my expenses are minimal to none existant so i technically have more disposable income... I will give you an example of my dynamics... if i go out saturday i pay... if we go out sundays she pays (mains).... With fb i usually pay but with fb you are not doing courtship dating...

Watch this video (i dont think you are doing any of the mention in the video, so don't worry and overanalize stuff like the op, women will sense when you get into this micro management, calculating dynmaics, this is a huge turn off, and bad in seduction...) this is coming from a dude that has lived of women, your focus is off....

You’re right, I’m extremely analytical.

I spent 10 years learning everything I know about women and seduction on this site and from a few other sources and I have a tendency to break things down to the most minute level to gain an advantage.

I like the way you explained all of that and it makes a ton of sense. I went into the relationship as a lover, my worry is always her changing how she seems me and starts seeing me as a full on provider instead.

You say my focus is off, and I agree with you… what should my focus be on then? @Skills