Is MDMA or Cocaine A Guaranteed Way To Beat Approach Anxiety?

[SexNotValidation]

my inability to approach women in nightclubs is well documented on this forum.

a month ago i posted this https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...s-willing-to-pay-10-000-for-a-solution.22447/

since then i have had several skype calls and paid 1000s in consulting fees and a month later no progress.

I have paid for coaching from probably 3 of the top 5 most respected/popular members of this forum and no progress at all.

I'll be 28 years old very soon and at this point i feel i just have to take even the most drastic measures.

MDMA and cocaine has been mentioned to me several times as a guaranteed way to lose inhibitions in social situations.

With another Friday approaching I'm considering trying it tomorrow.

I've never done any illegal drugs in my life so I'm not even sure where i would get these substances.

Have any of you ever consumed either of these drugs before going to the clubs?

Am i pretty much guaranteed i will be able to approach?

if im going to take the risk to do illegal drugs i want to at least be sure i will finally be able to approach.

 

[greenleaf]

I experimented massively with drugs a while back for this reason (attempt to completely eliminate AA) and unfortunately, for me at least, nothing has given me better results than alcohol. (which also isn't great)

Tried mdma, coke, pregabalin, etizolam, lsd, 2cb, phenibut and a few others.

I think it depends on your brain chemistry. Cocaine for example makes most people very chatty and confident and stuff, but if you have adhd for example, it might make you more introspective and less sociable (a bit like how they prescribe Ritalin for adhd kids to clam them down, but it makes 'normal' kids go hyper, hense they call it 'kiddie coke'). My brother (unudiagnosed but suspected adhd) always sleeps soon after banging some fat lines whilst his friends are bouncing off the walls lol

I had super high hopes for mdma, but again, it didn't give me the results i'd desparately hoped for (complete lack of inhibitions)
I went too a festival type thing and was rolling, but I remember still wimping out of approaching some absolute worldie!! (she was like my 10/10)

Pretty much the only drug I've not tried yet for this purpose is ghb. Bought some last week, although you can't take it with alcohol (which is when I game as I can't go to bars with my mates and not drink lol) so it was kind of a waste and i'm saving it for special occasion

Long story short, give it a go and report back with your findings, but if you're anything like me, it might not give you the effects you actually want

My AA seemed to increase in the last year or so. When I first started gaming, I got laid a lot more than now. That's because I was approaching like 30 girls per night. For some reason (maybe a mixture of some brutal rejections combined with my ongoing research and experience leading me to think that game really isn't really possible of MAKING girls attracted to you who aren't already) my AA increased, and so I approach less now and get laid less. Like you, I need to massively increase them approach numbers

 

[SexNotValidation]

I experimented massively with drugs a while back for this reason (attempt to completely eliminate AA) and unfortunately, for me at least, nothing has given me better results than alcohol. (which also isn't great)

Tried mdma, coke, pregabalin, etizolam, lsd, 2cb, phenibut and a few others.

I think it depends on your brain chemistry. Cocaine for example makes most people very chatty and confident and stuff, but if you have adhd for example, it might make you more introspective and less sociable (a bit like how they prescribe Ritalin for adhd kids to clam them down, but it makes 'normal' kids go hyper, hense they call it 'kiddie coke'). My brother (unudiagnosed but suspected adhd) always sleeps son after banging some fat lines whilst his friends are bouncing off the walls lol

I had super high hopes for mdma, but again, it didn't give me the results i'd desparately hoped for (complete lack of inhibitions)
I went too a festival type thing and was rolling, but I remember still wimping out of approaching some absolute worldie!! (she was like my 10/10)

Pretty much the only drug I've not tried yet for this purpose is ghb. Bought some last week, although you can't take it with alcohol (which is when I game as I can't go to bars with my mates and not drink lol) so it was kind of a waste and i'm saving it for special occasion

Long story short, give it a go and report back with your findings, but if you're anything like me, it might not give you the effects you actually want

My AA seemed to increase in the last year or so. When I first started gaming, I got laid a lot more than now. That's because I was approaching like 30 girls per night. For some reason (maybe a mixture of some brutal rejections combined with my ongoing research and experience leading me to think that game really isn't really possible of MAKING girls attracted to you who aren't already) my AA increased, and so I approach less now and get laid less. Like you, I need to massively increase them approach numbers

thank you for taking the time to write a detailed response.

I tested alcohol 6-7 times last summer and did not help at all.

I did a total of 1 approach in the 6-7 nights i tried alcohol.

weirdly it also seemed to kill all interest from girls i usually get.

it's as if alcohol suddenly made me ugly.

I usually get several approach invitations when i go out but with alcohol i remember feeling invisible.

I also have no real evidence that (verbal) game exists.

I'm pretty sure body language, vibe, facial expressions, etc...im pretty sure all these things impact the chances a girl will fuck you but as far as verbal stuff i have 0 evidence that there is anything that can verbally be done to increase the chances a girl will fuck you.

btw, what specific alcohol do you drink that helps you with AA? also, how old are you and what is your weight and height?

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@SexNotValidation verbal is a very small percentage of communication, like with girls it's not what they say but how they say it. You can make any line work in the right situation if delivered properly.

Verbal communication is still a thing and very important to dealing with objections. Example you go close to a girl and she says "I'm not kissing you /here/tonight/now" and you reply something like "who says I wanted to kiss you?" Your body language and tone will impact this but you're verbally dealing with her objection. Verbal game works because it demonstrates how socially savvy you are which girls like.

We aim to get the girls to do the talking, but if you can't hold or lead a conversation good luck deep diving, good luck getting a connection or bond with her. Without any verbal game you're limiting yourself. A club isn't a great place for verbal game, it's usually to loud and you're relying on physical game but in some clubs you can talk. Maybe she wants to talk.

I've read your previous posts and you get AIs and IOIs the only thing that's limiting you is your own mind and putting pressure on yourself. Did you ty the growl and sneer tactics?

You said with alcohol you approached once in 6 or 7 goes but you never approach so you've just made your first approach. I'm not sure how drunk you got but if you're drunk you won't notice AIs or IOIs all the time, you might not have became ugly with drink...

I recall previously you said you don't have AA and you can approach in day game but you really want to do night game? Correct me if I'm confusing you with someone else.

I think you have selective AA because the clubs are a loud crazy environment, girls are usually dressed up and have their guards up some of the time in these places and being considered an attractive guy you feel entitled and shit scared of rejection.

Dude it happens, I've totally bottled it myself a few times. I've looked at girls and been so intimidated by how attractive they were I'd have never approached if they didn't place themselves right next to me. I was out earlier this week and got so far in my own head about this one girl I over thought the approach so much I almost didn't approach. I mentally told myself fuck it I'll never know if I don't go for it.

I feel you're your own hurdle here, I don't know what's going on in your head during but I'm sure you don't need drugs.

I have a feeling you're going to complain about this advice and say you've heard it before such as the five second rule and stuff. I've not watched you in field to know the context of the environment or what you're doing but I want to recommend something.

When one of these girls stand near you giving you clear interest, acknowledge them. Touch their arm/elbow and see how they respond. I have a feeling they'll like it, go towards there wrist and then if they're receptive take their hand. Give it a go dude

 

[Toby2030]

Drugs are a waste of time and health. Pay for an experienced wingman that can push you into sets. Otherwise, really. You have gotten so much advice on AA and approaching. What's holding you back is taking action in your life.

 

[SexNotValidation]

@SexNotValidation verbal is a very small percentage of communication, like with girls it's not what they say but how they say it. You can make any line work in the right situation if delivered properly.

Verbal communication is still a thing and very important to dealing with objections. Example you go close to a girl and she says "I'm not kissing you /here/tonight/now" and you reply something like "who says I wanted to kiss you?" Your body language and tone will impact this but you're verbally dealing with her objection. Verbal game works because it demonstrates how socially savvy you are which girls like.

We aim to get the girls to do the talking, but if you can't hold or lead a conversation good luck deep diving, good luck getting a connection or bond with her. Without any verbal game you're limiting yourself. A club isn't a great place for verbal game, it's usually to loud and you're relying on physical game but in some clubs you can talk. Maybe she wants to talk.

I've read your previous posts and you get AIs and IOIs the only thing that's limiting you is your own mind and putting pressure on yourself. Did you ty the growl and sneer tactics?

You said with alcohol you approached once in 6 or 7 goes but you never approach so you've just made your first approach. I'm not sure how drunk you got but if you're drunk you won't notice AIs or IOIs all the time, you might not have became ugly with drink...

I recall previously you said you don't have AA and you can approach in day game but you really want to do night game? Correct me if I'm confusing you with someone else.

I think you have selective AA because the clubs are a loud crazy environment, girls are usually dressed up and have their guards up some of the time in these places and being considered an attractive guy you feel entitled and shit scared of rejection.

Dude it happens, I've totally bottled it myself a few times. I've looked at girls and been so intimidated by how attractive they were I'd have never approached if they didn't place themselves right next to me. I was out earlier this week and got so far in my own head about this one girl I over thought the approach so much I almost didn't approach. I mentally told myself fuck it I'll never know if I don't go for it.

I feel you're your own hurdle here, I don't know what's going on in your head during but I'm sure you don't need drugs.

I have a feeling you're going to complain about this advice and say you've heard it before such as the five second rule and stuff. I've not watched you in field to know the context of the environment or what you're doing but I want to recommend something.

When one of these girls stand near you giving you clear interest, acknowledge them. Touch their arm/elbow and see how they respond. I have a feeling they'll like it, go towards there wrist and then if they're receptive take their hand. Give it a go dude

first, thank you for taking the time write such a detailed post.

people do NOT seem to understand my issue when they suggest things like "go up her and growl and sneer as you walk by".

Part of problem is the going up to her part.

If i could go up to her and growl then i would not have this problem.

Now my problem is even worst because i get blatant approach invitations when a girl will come and just stand right next to me so close that our bodies are touching sometimes in even these girls i dont approach.

regarding daygame.

I do indirect daygame (asking for directions) then i see how the girl reacts to me and eject right away or keep talking to her if i can tell she is attracted by the way she looks at me and her body language.

also, i only approach girls in daygame where the girl is alone and there is no one else around or very few people so I'm very limited in daygame as well which is why usually if i do 3-4 hours of daygame i only approach 3-4 girls.

so no i definitely do NOT have selective approach anxiety.

I'm able to approach during the day because i ask for directions and stuff like that.

I am NOT able to go up to a girl during the day and do a direct opener or anything like that unless the girl just stares at me blatantly as we walk towards each other.

regarding your suggestion:

you are saying when a girl stands next to me, i just turn towards her without saying anything and touch her arm and see what she does?

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@SexNotValidation dude, right this is AA the walking up part is essentially the first step. Usually what stops guys from walking up and initiating contact is not knowing what to say and the fear that this girl won't talk to them which is socially awkward and you'll look like a loser. So if you're 100% certain your only fear is walking up to them but you know exactly what you would say and confident with it it's a deep root fear of rejection.

That's fine, everyone is frightened of rejection. Guys take it as a personal insult, it bruises their ego and they feel not good enough. This isn't always the case but it's how it's viewed. Maybe you disagree, but unless you can tell me why walking up to them is worse than actually opening your mouth I'm convinced this is it.

Looking past your fear of walking up to girls you say enough girls walk up to you, so much so that you're even touching. This is a direct AI and they've done the hard work for you, they've done the walking up. If you get this regularly I'd use this to build confidence with women before I bothered walking up and approaching myself. It's not needed if you're getting that level of attention.

So if they've done the hard part for you of walking up to you, now what's stopping you? Again this is a manifestation of AA. Frightened of rejection? So are the girls and they're going to feel you ignoring them much more than you. You've gained validation, she hasn't. She wants to meet you and you're doing a disservice not giving her that experience.

So we're going to solve that. This is what the touch on the arm or elbow does. She's walked up to you, and if you're not touching you need to break that touch barrier or it'll become awkward and she'll walk away. The arm and elbow is a safe place to touch, its socially acceptable, breaks the touch barrier and gets her attention. Jackpot!

Here you gauge her reaction similarly to when you ask for directions. You can touch and say hi, you can just touch and see what she does. If she's not interested she'll look away/ turn away/ walk away. That's fine, you wasted no effort at all! No one noticed this rejection.

Going back to the sneer and growl, this was recommended to keep your angry aloof vibe you've made. It's barbaric and caveman and works with your I'm to good for this attitude. The whole point in this is when you're walking through the club and they look you sneer, no words, sneer. When they see you later on and stand next to you because they're curious you've already interacted. This may prompt them to talk to you.

This happens for you anyway, "why are you so angry?" - this isn't a great approach from a girl to have, but opens you up and lets you use verbal game for frame control.

"I'm angry it took you so long to say hi, hi I'm snv what's your name?"

Indirect, changes the frame, changes the mood and engages her. It's also playful. Keep the angry tone if you want "I was meant to be out celebrating with my mate and he's got to drunk and had to go home so I'm a little frustrated" this uses a slight emotional pull and usually I'd avoid this because you're not bringing fun and good vibes, no one wants to be with a downer but you can make it that she's changed your mood. This is good for her.

Going right back to the elbow/arm touch or grab, again use this here when they talk to you. Take them by their arm or elbow. You've engaged and made this much more intimate and you can assess how receptive they are

 

[SexNotValidation]

wow thanks a lot for this post.

i can tell by what you wrote that you are really analyzing my situation and really trying to help me.

ok so now here are my thoughts:

Do i know exactly what i want to say to them?

yes my plan is to just ask girls if they want to dance and then take them to do the dancefloor and run the dancefloor game outlined here by Teevster: https://www.girlschase.com/content/ultimate-get-girls-dance-floors-guide-closing-dance-floor

my exact opener i plan to use is "you're very attractive, do you want to dance?"....something like that

and my plan is if they say no i just leave instantly and if they say yes i grab hand take them to the dancefloor.

i do not want to do any verbal seduction i just want to dance and do dancefloor game, i hate talking and it feels unnatural to me to seduce women by talking.

But I'm too self conscious and uncomfortable to be on the dancefloor alone so im trying to approach girls who are standing around the club, ask them if they want to dance and then take them to the dancefloor.

This is my current gameplan when i go out.


What is stopping me from talking to the girls who come and stand besides me?

ive asked myself this question many times and im not sure.

sometimes the girls who do this will come in groups of 2-4 and hover near me

but as far as why i do not talk to the girls alone who literally stand besides me and all i have to do is look to my side and say something?

why do i not talk to these girls?

honestly, i do not know.

i guess im scared i will get rejected.

and i guess even though it happens regularly it still catches me by surprise when a girl does this, i never notice them approaching i usually just suddenly feel someone rubbing my shoulder and ill turn and see some girl.

and another thing is a lot of times when they do this they will be texting on their phone which i guess makes me wonder if she just happened to start texting right besides me.

Regarding angry aloof vibe

yes to this day its still the vibe that gets me the most attention from girls.

I have experimented recently with a super relaxed vibe where i just try to be as relaxed as possible but nothing promising so far with that.

The whole point in this is when you're walking through the club and they look you sneer, no words, sneer. When they see you later on and stand next to you because they're curious you've already interacted. This may prompt them to talk to you.

I never look at girls/make eye contact when im walking around the club so in order to do this i would first need to start looking for eye contact when walking around which weirdly i find very hard to do.

it feels beta/low value to me to look for eye contact, i never do it because it makes me feel bad. its weird and hard to explain.

I also never look directly at girls or try to make eye contact when im just standing around.

I usually just look straight ahead at a wall or something.

The only time i make eye contact with girls is when they approach me or the rare times i approach.

 

[flatron]

I also have no real evidence that (verbal) game exists.

Well, it kind of exists. Just not in the sense that people want it to exist. i.e- like in old movies where the ugly guy starts whispering poetry in the girls ear, and now she's went from thinking he's a hideous old man to wanting to jump his bones! That's fantasy (although that's also what was sold by PUA coaches back in 2000 or so. Parting gullible people with their money)

Verbal game exists in the form of, for example, passing a shit test. Agreeing and amplifying as opposed to clambering to qualify yourself. Or like in Flux's example ( she says "I'm not kissing you /here/tonight/now" and you reply something like "who says I wanted to kiss you?")

Most game techniques, when broken down verbally, is actually just flirting (think pushpull, negs, disqualification, sex talk etc). Flirting is good. It helps you bed girls who are attracted to you. But it doesn't MAKE them attracted! That's not something you can do with words. (although i have seen some pretty funny examples of guys trying to use 'emotional language' about how, for example, when they cook, it makes them feel alive and yet thoughtful, it is like an emprisonment of your own mind, that only the strongest souls can liberate themselves from bla bla bla, lol). They think it was this awkward sounding language that landed her without realising he had her at 'hello'. (he was her type). All of this becomes very clear the more you approach. (the fact it's just a numbers game) Even watching enough infields should confirm it for you (people bang girls who were instantly somewhat receptive/attracted, and always end up getting rejected if he's not her type, no matter how much poetic language or any other type of game they use)

Her attraction was basically decided by her before you opened your mouth. Game is to help you see the deal with the girls who think you're hot.

But yeah, you still need to talk. You seem to want to bypass all verbal communication, and that's not ideal either!

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@SexNotValidation your supposed opener and teevsters dance floor method is a start. I'm not a fan of your opener at all, but I'm not going to heavily criticise it if it gets you going. We're however at least getting somewhere with you admitting you're scared of rejection. So we need to overcome this and get you talking to these girls that stand near you. Again the arm and elbow touch or grab is ideal, providing you follow through with it. As soon as you do it deliver your opener.

Not liking verbal game is one thing but neglecting it is something else. Arguably your opener is verbal game and one of the reasons I don't particularly like it but that's more because it's not my style. I also see inconsistencies here which is possibly what's tripping you.

You don't like verbal game and can't see it working (trust me you'll need this some times and I'll write an example for you) yet your action plan involves asking do you want to dance? So this isn't congruent to someone whose aloof and too cool for school. You're possibly in your own head about talking to them so you don't. And we circle back to your AA issue. Again previous advice of sneering and the five second rule are very applicable and the only thing stopping you is you. It's not walking up to them if they've walked up to you that's stopping you, it's your own mental block. Accepting this is how you overcome it.

Not to confuse matters here but nothing should have stopped you delivering this line in the past and the confidence from your previous 6 night club seductions should have gave you reference points and a positive mind frame. So let's look beyond opening your mouth with verbal game.

One of my routines can go from touching her arm, sliding down her forearm gently towards her wrist and then taking her hand. Directly into dancing and looking for compliance. I can do this without saying a single word.... in my bolder routines if I'm feeling confident it'll work I'll ask for her hand (non verbally) and proceed to dancing or my boldest yet simply taking her hand. This comes from pre approaching, social proof, social momentum or something it's not an out of the blue move. You're most likely going to fail doing this kind of thing uncalibrated. It's more advanced and I'm not telling you to do this yet as you don't have any reference points. This is to explain what's capable from the simple touch her elbow starting point.

Before you turn to drugs, which I really don't recommend the next time your out you have two things you have to do. Touch the arm/elbow of 2 girls that stand near you, secondly keep in the set as long as you can. I don't care if you don't think she's into you, that's not the point. The point of this is feeling uncomfortable, rather forcing you to deliver your line so that you actually say it or so that you dance with her even without touching.

The bonus of keeping in this set is you remain in your spot, you don't move because of her. She'll move if she's not interested, you were there first! Secondly any other girls will see you talking to her so you appear less intimidating or they'll wonder why she was so special. This in turn gets them curious and thus you get social momentum!

Possibly a far out concept for you with the mystery man vibe you've gave but this will break your mental bounds. Even if you have to tell yourself flux told me to do this a million times get it done alright dude?

 

[SexNotValidation]

But yeah, you still need to talk. You seem to want to bypass all verbal communication, and that's not ideal either!

what about dancefloor game as thought by Teevster which is still the best strategy i have found so far?

that entire series of articles is basically a nonverbal method.

that is what i want.

The concept of getting laid by anything verbal focused makes no sense to me.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@SexNotValidation an example of verbal game while on a dance floor in a club:

I approached two girls on the dancefloor, I got talking to A but I liked B. I engaged B and kept talking to both. A song hit that I liked, I took both of their hands and danced with both of them. Girl A went to the bar and left me with B. I kept dancing and looked to escalate. She was clearly attracted but pulled away saying "I have a boyfriend" I responded with "and?" This communicated that I didn't care, I was going for what I wanted, I wouldn't judge her and that this was going to be a ONS.

She was receptive and kept going but put forward the same objection a couple more times. Again I dismissed them and she went to walk away. I pulled her back in and she said "okay I'll dance with you for one song" I replied "one song? I must be lucky" delivered in a playful down tone. Followed by "is that for my benefit or yours?" She told me for my benefit. I hit back with "oh really? Have you seen me, I'm sure it's for yours" this re framed it, was playful, I was very confident and I was able to escalate further until girl A came back and pulled her away to stop her from cheating.

I seen her later on and used "where were we before we were interrupted?"

She strayed from her boyfriend that night, and another twice when she's seen me out.

The verbal game was used to handle a lot of shit that I'd have messed up if I didn't have some verbal game to assist

 

[flatron]

but i have no evidence at all that that anything verbal can replace looks and body language to make her horny for you.

It can't. But this isn't your issue, is it? Your issue is Approach anxiety. It doesn't sound like looks are your problem from what you've wrote

 

[Mr.Rob]

Lol is this a serious post?

Ok say it were to work.. What is your plan for long term success?

You'll have to become a cocaine or Molly addict and spend $100's each week on drugs and deal with massive anxiety/depression issues that occur when you are constantly messing with your brain chemistry like that.

Not to mention when your high off your ass your not going to be having super slick game. If you do cocaine you'll have about 40 minutes where you're motor mouthing and can't shut up followed by 2 hours of feeling like death.

What idiots are you listening too that are giving you advice like this?

 

[SexNotValidation]

It can't. But this isn't your issue, is it? Your issue is Approach anxiety. It doesn't sound like looks are your problem from what you've wrote

well i thought my #1 issue is i do not approach.

but also i think i have another issue that might be equally bad or even worst that i have missed for years.

i just realized this in last few hours.

i do not think its normal that i have been approached 300-400 times but have fucked only 6 of those girls.

so im wondering if i need to abandon figuring out how to approach and focus on why im not fucking the girls who approach me.

im guessing fucking girls that approach you is significantly easier then fucking girls who you approach so i might be wasting my time trying to approach more girls since i will not be able to fuck them based on how few of the girls that approach me i have fucked.

 

[Velasco]

And here the cycle begins again with standing in club being aloof.

Next thread:

"Guise how do I switch from being uninterested to being social when girls approach me???"

Rinse repeat

 

[ulrich]

Dude, if you have hired 5 top dating coaches and still have these big issues with approach anxiety, I can only see two possibilities:

1)You’re overanalyzing everything to avoid action.
2) You have an uncommon mental condition stopping you.

Probably the best you can do is go to a trained psychologist and see if they can find something we don’t see.
Perhaps your pain is indeed something uncommon and we can’t relate.

My only other suggestion is get a sales job if possible.
Working in sales forces you to get out of your comfort zone and relate to people.
It can take a couple of years but I have found that is the ultimate cure for approach anxiety.

 

[ulrich]

i do not think its normal that i have been approached 300-400 times but have fucked only 6 of those girls.

Yes, it is normal.

That’s a 2% close rate.
It means there are many many things where you could do better... and it also means that you are not a hopeless case.

 

[flatron]

Paul Janka (not only tall and handsome but also a professional PUA) is said to have had a 4.4% close rate. But that was him cold approaching
(which makes you wonder about all the superstars online who claim to bang like 50% of girls they open lol. Usually it's actually matter of spotting IOI's (attracted girls) and approaching them which muddies the waters when looking at the numbers. Or flat out lies)
With girls approaching you though, you'd expect better than a 2% close rate. Usually the answer in situations like that is as simple as escalation! Tell her she's hot! DO something. If she's attracted to you, you've now given HER a chance to show some intent back without her risking being rejected. It can all suddenly click with something as simple as that IF she is attracted (which she usually is if she opens you!)

 

[Velasco]

Usually it's actually matter of spotting IOI's (attracted girls) and approaching them which muddies the waters when looking at the numbers

The skill is in being able to close these girls. The majority of guys here are average to above-average looking (with maybe a couple of legit good looking guys) with maxed out fundamentals (because if you haven't, then what the fuck are you doing on this forum?) so getting approached or having enough targets (receptive girls) to approach isnt the main issue. It's usually with their game.