FU Is test for desirability a shit-test?

[Calibration]

As much as I hate writing these failure reports, I don't think I can find this last piece of the puzzle by myself. Also, I may become the number one contributor of FU reports on this forum One may wonder, why I sound frustrated when I'm meeting a new girl everyday, its cos I dont post all those series of rejections and when I get to a point that its almost there but not get it, it gets very very frustrating.

Anyway, I'm doing something fundamentally very wrong when I'm persisting and bouncing home. So, I thought writing a FR will shed more light and I want to try something different next time and wanted to ask if its fine to do that.

I'm noticing a common pattern in all the girls that I'm losing. 5 girls so far in the past month which seemed like I was almost there. All these girls are in one way or the other trying to see how desirable they are to me. At some point they give up thinking I'm not finding them desirable enough and they leave. Let me explain...

I had taken a day off from work for a medical appointment and had all day to sarge after that. I finished the appointment, had lunch and went out all dressed up and relaxed unlike how I rush after work or wanting to make something happen during the weekend. I think I was feeling really good for some reason but I was all pumped up and went around doing my normal routine of chatting up strangers for sometime to build social momentum and started approaching. Actually I already had a lot of momentum today. So, was approaching was not hard. Yet, I had a few rejections which I brushed it off and thought will spend the last one hour around the park area and head back home after that. As I entered the park, I felt someone walking behind me and actually had climbed stairs and was catching my breath and I looked back to see this supeeeer cute blond girl behind me.

Shawn: Hello!
Lisa: *startled like a cute puppy. Not knowing what to do and not able to run away, looks aimlessly around all flustered*
I take a couple of steps back and walk towards her and she decided to run away. I found that very funny looking at her behaviour.
Shawn: *laughing* wait!
She is still flustered and not making eye contact but smiling sheepishly. I continued laughing and gave us a moment to regain composure
Shawn: Why are you running away?
Lisa: I don't know I got scared.
Shawn: Hahaha
Lisa: I get scared to talk to strangers
Shawn: You're super cute and behaviour is super cute.
She is struggling to make eye-contact but takes courage to look at me and smile
Lisa: Thanks
I continue laughing..
Shawn: Man! you made me laugh so much.. Sorry, I'm not laughing at you but that was just super funny..
She is still very flustered and walking very fast.
Shawn: Slow down! Don't run away...hahaha..
She slows down..
Shawn: What's your name anyway?
Lisa: I'm Lisa. You?
Shawn: I'm Shawn (I hold her hand like shaking her hand but not really shaking it and put my left hand around her like a hug)
Shawn: Are you always this shy?
Lisa: No, I arrived here from South America and was travelling there and I have been careful these days.
Shawn: Where are you from originally?
Lisa: (Yes! you guessed it!) German!
Shawn: You are a fake German
Lisa: Why?
Shawn: German girls are bold
Lisa: What is bold? (Sorry my English is not very good) Actually she did speak very good English but she just didn't know this word.
Shawn: Courageous, like no fear
Lisa: Ah! ok. No, I'm courageous but only scared of strangers
Shawn: Can we go sit somewhere, this sun is killing me today
Lisa: Sure
We go to a bench
Shawn: So, you travelled from South America and now here.
Lisa: Yes
Shawn: Where did you travel there?
Lisa: I went to Bolivia, Peru, Colombia and Chile.
Shawn: Did you see the salt desert in Bolivia?
Lisa: Of course, that's the only thing I saw there
Shawn: Ok.. Now I know why you were so scared. I've heard that its quite unsafe there. I have a lot of friends from Latin America and have told me some crazy stories about mugging.
Lisa: No, that way it was safe. I saw a lot of drug addicts who'd take cocaine in public and that was very scary.
Shawn: Ok, interesting. I hadn't heard about that. Don't worry, you're safe here. I pull in and hug her from the side.
Shawn: So, you're travelling around the world? *laughing*
Lisa: Yes!
Shawn: Really?
Lisa: Yes! I have travelled South America and here now and then I'll go to South east asia
Shawn: Perfect! We should get married then *laughing*
Lisa: Hahah.. why?
Shawn: I always wanted to be a stay-home husband and marry a rich girl hahaha
Lisa: hahah.. No, I'm not rich. I stay in dirty backpackers sometimes but I'm managing
Shawn: Not in dirty backpackers but staying in backpackers is fun.. I have done a lot and have met a lot of investing people.
Lisa: Yes, but I hate when they dont give a towel
Shawn: What? hahaha.. of all the things that is the only thing that is bothering you..
Lisa: Ya, they dont give a towel. We have to use our own.
Shawn: I think that's hygienic and good to use your own towel anyway..
Lisa: But they can also give a clean towel
Shawn: Hahaha... now I know what you want in life... a clean towel..hahaha
Lisa: Hahaha...
Lisa: What do you do here?
Shawn: I live here and I work as a Business analyst.
Lisa: Ok, what is that?
Shawn: Its a bit complicated to explain but its blah blah blah
Lisa: Do you use SAP?
Shawn: Yes, I dont directly use it but I work with teams that work on SAP.
She was sooo delighted..lol to talk about SAP. She was a SAP consultant in Germany. We talked a little bit about that..
Shawn: This sun doesn't seem to leave me alone.. its right in my face. Can we go sit in shade?
Lisa: Sure
We walk around the park and find a bench under the shade
Shawn: You dont sound German btw..
Lisa: Really?
Shawn: Yes.. you have a bit of US accent
Lisa: thanks.. that's a compliment
Shawn: Why compliment?
Lisa: I dont like my German accent
Shawn: Its just an accent but I've heard this about accents.. I don't mind any accent..as long as we can understand each other. In fact, I like French accent. Its so cute.
Lisa: I like US accent
Shawn: I like British accent the most
Lisa: Why? It sounds so boring.
Shawn: Ya but it sounds very refined and polished but I agree it sounds boring in a casual conversation
Lisa: You're right..
We talk a bit about different accents, French, German, US, Canadian, UK etc and then I show her this funny video on Youtube:
"I 'ave a 'a penis" | Embarrassing Mistakes in English | Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com › videos › i-ave-a-a-penis-emb...

Shawn: So, what do you do besides running away when someone comes over to compliment you or being a SAP consultant?
Lisa: Haha.. I go running. I have a dog blah blah blah..
I had touched almost all of her body by then except her private parts.. including neck, hair, thighs, hips etc..
Shawn: Lets get a coffee! (Looking at my watch and pressing her thigh to get up)
Lisa: Ok
She walks faster than me..I hold her hips from the back and pull her back..
Shawn: Stop walking like a German..hahaha
Lisa: You know I'm a German and I'm used to it..
Shawn: Ya but now you're not in Germany!

We walk for around 100 - 150 mtrs and we see a very classy restaurant
Shawn: Lets go there
Lisa: Oh!
Shawn: Why? You didn't like it?
Lisa: Ya but it looks expensive
Shawn: I don't care.. you're paying for it anyway..hahaha

She takes it literally and is already scared. We walk into the restaurant and we ask for coffee and the bartender says, coffee is closed
Shawn: Do you have non-alcoholic drinks? (After the drunk French girl, I'm not talking about alcohol with any girl lol)
Bartender: Sure
Shawn: Do you like non-alcoholic drink?
Lisa: Sure
Shawn: Table for 2
Bartender: You can sit anywhere
Shawn: Lets go sit there (Cozy sofa just what I wanted to escalate)
I go sit and she sits next to me still a bit uncomfortable and I put my arm around her waist and pull her in and leave my hand on her shoulder and she is comfortable with that. I had not noticed her ass until then but damn when I saw that I became totally lustful lol
Shawn: I think you have very distinct qualities
Lisa: Oh, why is that?
Shawn: On one hand, you're adventurous and spontaneous and on the other hand you're very organized.
Lisa: yes, I like that way *qualifies qualifies qualifies*
Shawn: Nice! I really like that
Shawn: I thought you're like a village girl in Bavaria wearing the skirt and raising sheep and cattle hahaha
Lisa: hahaha.. *qualifies qualifies qualifies*
Shawn: So, you don't drink often cos you're not from the city
Lisa: Yes, I do drink when I want to dance
I decided to stay away from this topic. hahaha
Shawn: Ah! Today for the first time you'll dance without drinking alcohol *Seeding*
Lisa: How?
Shawn: I'm going to teach you and you're going to dance with me
Lisa: Hahah.. no I have never danced without drinking. Anyway, what do you dance?
Shawn: Salsa and Bachata
Lisa: You should move to South America, people dance everywhere even on the streets
Shawn: Ya, maybe..

I veered from dancing to sex-talk..I honestly can't remember exactly how I got into sex talk but this was the smoothest transition ever. When I've read about @Teevster's sex-talk articles and when the girl is very responsive to that, I always wondered would girls be so vocal and contributing to sex-talk but today I experienced that first hand.

Shawn: You know when I make friends, 3 things are very important for me: Non-judgemental, Open-minded and Not-Insecure
Lisa: Wow!
Shawn: Ya, those are deal breakers for me in any relationship. Not only friendship
Lisa: That's very nice
Shawn: When I think about being non-judgemental, one thing that I really hate about is inequality in sexuality. Like if Men sleep around, they are studs and if women sleep around...
Lisa: They are Sluts!
Shawn: Exactly!
Lisa: Its so hard for women
Shawn: I totally understand..
Lisa: We have to be so scared about sex all the time
Shawn: Ya, that's so bad. Its not like Girls dont like sex, like most people think.
Lisa: Of course.
Shawn: I know Girls do like sex and I feel sorry when I know how much a girl loves to orgasm but she has to suppress it and its such a shame
Lisa: Ya, totally.. we always have to think what the guy thinks, what people around think etc
Shawn: I know right... World is already full of pain and misery like covid etc.. why not just enjoy the pleasures of life? Its not like you're using someone else's body. Its your body and you can do whatever the fuck you want!
She is looking at me in awe with deer eyes...
Lisa: Its because men are primitive?
Shawn: What do you mean?
Lisa: Is primitive an English word?
Shawn: Yes but why are you saying that?
Lisa: I mean men think of women as just boobs and ass
Shawn: hahaha.. you totally said it what I wanted to say...
Shawn: You know how you can make a guy horny?
Lisa: How?
Shawn: Just touch his dick...
Lisa: Hahaha... but its not that easy for us
Shawn: Ya that's the best part I like how women think
Lisa: We need to feel very very comfortable
Shawn: 100%.. its not about making a girl want to have sex but allowing her to have sex
Lisa: *Looking at me with deer eyes*
Shawn: You make a girl horny through her mind
Lisa: *Looking at me with deer eyes*
Shawn: Its not like Bam! Bam! Thank you ma'am!
Lisa: Hahaha
Shawn: Sex is so pleasurable thing to do, when I hear from my friends that they had sex with a girl who was drunk af, I ask them if the girl remembers them the next day, they say they dont know or maybe not and I say, what's the point then? You need to have sex like a 5 course meal, relishing it for hours, slow and passionate.
Lisa: *Looking at me with deer eyes*
Lisa: Most guys are very insensitive
Shawn: Why do you say that?
Lisa: When I was 16 I was dating a 17 y.o guy and he would always say looking at my boobs, you have very small boobs compared to my ex. I know they are small but you dont have to at least say it.
Shawn: No, if you dont like it, then just leave
Lisa: No, we all judge even if we dont want to but at least not say it
Shawn: No, I dont agree with that.. you have to enjoy someone's body 100%
Lisa: *Looking at me with deer eyes*
Lisa: But I must say, I have small boobs
Shawn: Ah dont worry.. someone else may like it. Just forgive that guy, he was a naive 17 y.o hahaha
Shawn: *I look at her like a 5 course meal*
Lisa: Puts her head down
Shawn: BTW, you know women can orgasm 8 different ways?
Lisa: No, I didn't know that
Shawn: Yes, women can orgasm 8 different ways but can only orgasm in 2 ways. So bad.
I thought I had already talked a lot about sex and didn't want to talk too much (remembered about inflation)
Shawn: So, when you want to party, where do you go to party?
Lisa: I go to nearby cities
Shawn: Awesome! Nobody knows what you're doing when you're away from home
Lisa: Exactly! best thing about being away from home
I didn't know if she was sufficiently warmed up to bounce her home. Didn't want to do the same mistake as Sunday.
Shawn: Finish your drink lets go for a walk
Lisa: *Finishes her drink quickly*
Shawn: Thanks for the drink...hahaha
Lisa: *Looking at me with deer eyes*
I pay the bill and say I need to go to the toilet. She waits outside and when I return...
Lisa: My friend just texted me, I have to get back
Shawn: Ok, so who's this friend?
Lisa: I'm travelling with her
Shawn: Ok, so you have all time in the world to spend time with her but today is your only chance to spend time with me. Just tell her that you met an amazing guy and you dont want to miss this opportunity
Lisa: No, if I say that.. she'll think..(with hand gestures) what? You went with a guy you just met?
Shawn: hahaha.. just dont tell her (I keep walking and ignoring whatever she's saying)
Lisa: No, I want to go back otherwise, she'll feel bad that I left her alone.
Shawn: *we keep walking* Nah, just tell her you went exploring the city and even she should be doing the same. Living her life and not stopping you from living your life.
Lisa: Ya, that's true but she is the car driver and I have to be nice with her, even if I like it or not. Otherwise, she'll think I'm just using her for her car.
Shawn: Nah, you have all time in the world when travelling to talk. Now, just spend time with me today.
We approach my apartment entrance
Lisa: What is this?
Shawn: What?
Lisa: This place
Shawn: My apartment
Lisa: No way, I'm not coming inside your apartment.
Shawn: hahaha.. so you want to dance on the street then?
Lisa: haha.. no
Shawn: I told you earlier that I'll teach you to dance without alcohol
Lisa: Hahah.. I'm not coming inside. I'm going.
Shawn: Ok, how about we go for a walk?
Lisa: Ok
We go to a park next door
Lisa: That apartment looks very expensive. You're very rich
Shawn: Hahaha.. its ok, its worth it. Anyway, I'm not as rich as you to travel around the world
Lisa: Come on, I'm not travelling around the world luxuriously
Shawn: Anyway, we can talk all this sitting comfortably in my apartment
Lisa: No, I'm not coming inside. I met you just 2 hours ago and I'm not someone who goes to stranger's apartment after 2 hours
Shawn: You just insulted me calling me a stranger
Lisa: Sorry, I didn't mean that
Shawn: hahaha.. we talked for so long and you were with me all the time comfortably
Lisa: Ya but that was in public
Shawn: What can happen in my apartment? *laughing*
Lisa: I dont know. I'm very scared
Shawn: What are you scared of?
Lisa: Anything can happen. You can kill me.
Shawn: Hahaha.. and why will I do that?
Lisa: I dont know
Shawn: Cos you're super cute?
Lisa: *smiles* I dont know but I'm not coming inside. Just hug me and I'll leave
Shawn: Come on, dont be... (thinking) so normal
Lisa: Haha. No, I just want to go back
Shawn: Do you really think I would kill you? No, I'm not joking anymore. Tell me seriously.
Lisa: Not kill but..I dont know how to say it but bad things can happen like a rape...
Shawn: Hahaha.. fuck you, you're insulting me again and again. You said I can be a killer and now calling me a rapist. Just get the fuck out of here..
Lisa: hahaha.. sorry, I didn't mean that..really sorry
Shawn: You know what, come here.. come sit next to me.
Lisa: No, I want to go
Shawn: If you want to go, you can go. I'm not stopping you
Lisa: No but give me a hug and say goodbye and I'll go
Shawn: No way, there are only 2 ways. Either you come with me to my apartment and we can dance just for one song and you can leave (remembered @Chase 's article on just the tip lol) or you can just fuck off. I'm going to think, Lisa was so amazing in the beginning but when she left, she was so fucking mean
Lisa: Hahaha.. I dont want you to think that
Shawn: Come here, sit next to him.. stop acting like a kid
Comes and sits next to me and I put my hand on her waist and rub her waist slowly while talking..
Shawn: You know what? There is always a risk in everything we do. Nothing is safe. Accidents can happen when crossing streets or your plane could've crashed when you flew here but if you stopped because of that, then you can't be on the other side looking back and thinking wow, that was the most amazing time of my life.
Lisa: *Gets up again* I agree all that but please give me a hug and I want to leave.
Shawn: No, you can go if you want to
Lisa: Why are you so...?
Shawn: Adamant?
Lisa: What is adamant?
Shawn: Stubborn?
Lisa: I dont know what that is, wait let me check (google translates). Exactly! Why are you like that?
Shawn: Cos you just insulted me that I'm unsafe hahaha Just come with me for sometime and I can think back and say to myself.. ah! Lisa trusted me, she is so sweet and not think that you insulted me
Lisa: No, please please come here.. hug me and I'll go (Points her finger to the ground to get up from sitting and go to her to hug)
Shawn: No, you come here.. sit here.. (Points to her to sit with me)
Lisa: No
Shawn: No, come here.. I'm serious
Lisa: Comes and sits next to me
Shawn: Have you watched this movie called Bridges of the Madison county?
Lisa: No. Why?
Shawn: Storytime.. hahaha.. its an amazing movie of Meryl Streep and Clinteastwood. Do you know them?
Lisa: Yes
Shawn: So, Meryl Streep is from Italy and grows up as a brat and she falls in love with an American guy and moves to US and to Texas where her life is not what she had expected. She thinks US is amazing and all that but she ends up becoming a mother of two kids and a housewife. Once their kids and husband go away for 5 days and then Clinteastwood who is a NGO photographer comes to her town and while she is outside, he asks her address and there is instant attraction for her on him and she offers him to meet her if he needs anything and one thing leads to another and they end up having an affair for 5 days
Lisa: *Looking at me with deer eyes*
Lisa: Wow!
Shawn: Then they fall in love with each other and she writes all of this in a diary and her kids read about this from her diary and in the beginning they despise her for cheating on their father but at the end, they realise that she did a right thing because that is what she really wanted in her life and she at least lived for herself for a short time. So, even in her life it was risky but she took the risk and she did what she wanted finally and was not regretful cos she was true to herself.
Lisa: That was very nice (gets up from next to me and again stands in front of me)
Shawn: So, like I said there is always risk in everything but you have to take the risk
Lisa: I know you want to have sex and you're inviting me for that
Shawn: When did I ever say that? hahaha
Lisa: The way you're touching me and looking at me, I know that..
Shawn: Hahaha.. I was just thinking of dancing and you're thinking of sex...haha
Lisa: No, I know what you want
Shawn: Its not what I want. I told you earlier, I dont anything unless both of them enjoy.
Lisa: So, you're not wanting to have sex?
Shawn: hahaha.. I told you just lets dance or if you dont want to dance, we can just hangout together and you can leave in sometime
Lisa: No, I'm not coming. Please give me a hug and say bye and I'll leave
Shawn: So, you dont want to spend time with me?
Lisa: No
Shawn: What? I thought you were only worried about safety but didnt know you didn't want to spend time with me
Lisa: No, you are a nice person but I don't want to have sex with you
Shawn: When did I ever say I want to have sex? Anyway, if you dont want to spend time with me, there is no point in me wanting you to spend time with me. I want both of us to be happy and enjoying the time together. Ok, let me give you a hug.
I walk up to her and give her a hug and she leaves
Lisa: Bye
Shawn: No bye for you

I walk in the other direction.

I may have missed some more details that I forgot but I certainly tried all I can.. plow no matter what all the way to pyco...like you say @Skills

I have been thinking about all my last minute failures I've faced and the general theme I'm seeing is, she is interested and perhaps she is trying to see how much I desire that I admit to her that I want to have sex with her. Not sure if my interpretation is right but looking back when I had success with a couple of girls who were initially resistant but later gave in was when I explicitly said, I desire them so much that 1. with the last German girl, I said I want to eat her pussy so much. 2. Last year, a girl came home and we were making out but she totally stopped me from touching her pussy. But when I said, do you like kissing me? She said, Yes. So, I said, then imagine how good you'll feel when I eat you out and I'm told that I'm very good at it. After sometime, she gave in. However, I had kissed both of those girls and that was different but I haven't even kissed these girls. Anyway, this site advocates plausible deniability and also I've never heard anywhere where the guy explicitly says to the girl what he wants to do to her except on PWF channel tinder videos on Youtube. So, I'm wondering since I talk so much about sex, manhandle physically so much, make deep eye contact but hesitate to say what I want to do to her, does she think I dont desire her enough? Or am I not confident to say that? Is this probably the missing piece of the puzzle? Next time I want to say it openly and see what happens. Anyway, nothing to lose when I'm already losing so far hahaha...

tl;dr: Please read the whole thing, it took me 3 hrs to write and format, with blue-balls . At least you'll know what not to do

 

[Skills]

There is no shit test:

- your sex talk is not working for whatever reason is not turning them on...
- You still fail to understand that plausible deniability is not an influence tactic but again, a save face tactic once they are ready for dick.
-you fail to know when the girl is ready to go...

girl was no ready and you started to walk her to the apt....

learn all this:

The Complete Guide to Sex Talk (introduction to second generation verbals) Feat. Cost of success (cosy) - The Skills Method

Hey guys!, in this video I cover all of the difference styles from sexual verbals, very comprehensive with movie samples, text samples, live samples from me and other players… Second, … Continue Reading →

www.theskillsmethod.com

Bring back physical game part 2.- Featuring ijjjjji containment and 60 yoc secrets of micro escalations

Alright guys i spent the last couple of days going off on a seducer, he couldn't text for shit! his texting improved tremendously, tears come out of my eyes when i saw his texting, he has second generations verbals on point (wayyyyyyy better than me like 50 times he is very technical), he goes...

www.skilledseducer.com

How to increase your chances if the lay is not there on the meet

Disclaimer.- this will be a long comprehensive post but it will totally help you big time, so read it and understand it... Most of the dudes including seducers are still living in the wrong century, or flat out they are not out there gaming or are pretty much kj, because i really don't...

www.skilledseducer.com

P.s. is there a way for you to shorten the block of text and be more to the point, i literally have to tell other guys to read it and give me bullet points...

 

[Skjöldr]

IMO you persisted way too hard towards the end. My read on this girl is that she wasn't comfortable/compliant enough.

At

Shawn: My apartment
Lisa: No way, I'm not coming inside your apartment.
Shawn: hahaha.. so you want to dance on the street then?
Lisa: haha.. no
Shawn: I told you earlier that I'll teach you to dance without alcohol
Lisa: Hahah.. I'm not coming inside. I'm going.

I would have stopped. You already tried twice at that point. Leave it. Get her number and take her out on a day 2 and try pulling her again there if you wanted. It wasn't gonna happen ever. Reading everything after that was a complete death sentence. Reminded me of this:
gifs.com/gif/ironman-punching-hulk-to-go-to-sleep-pYYnAN

But that doesn't matter if you just stop plowing.
Don't worry, I tend to be the same way. I have persisted really hard in the past but I have gotten better over the time.

"Go for the girl, not the lay"
-Glow

 

[Calibration]

There is no shit test:

- your sex talk is not working for whatever reason is not turning them on...
- You still fail to understand that plausible deniability is not an influence tactic but again, a save face tactic once they are ready for dick.
-you fail to know when the girl is ready to go...

girl was no ready and you started to walk her to the apt....

learn all this:

The Complete Guide to Sex Talk (introduction to second generation verbals) Feat. Cost of success (cosy) - The Skills Method

Hey guys!, in this video I cover all of the difference styles from sexual verbals, very comprehensive with movie samples, text samples, live samples from me and other players… Second, … Continue Reading →

www.theskillsmethod.com

Bring back physical game part 2.- Featuring ijjjjji containment and 60 yoc secrets of micro escalations

Alright guys i spent the last couple of days going off on a seducer, he couldn't text for shit! his texting improved tremendously, tears come out of my eyes when i saw his texting, he has second generations verbals on point (wayyyyyyy better than me like 50 times he is very technical), he goes...

www.skilledseducer.com

How to increase your chances if the lay is not there on the meet

Disclaimer.- this will be a long comprehensive post but it will totally help you big time, so read it and understand it... Most of the dudes including seducers are still living in the wrong century, or flat out they are not out there gaming or are pretty much kj, because i really don't...

www.skilledseducer.com

Why do you think she wasn't turned on or ready?
- Cos she was contributing to sex talk and qualifying.
- I missed to mention one thing. I said "some girls can be conscious of their body image" when she was talking about small boobs. Then she said, "don't worry I've accepted my body completely now" and a few more things that I mentioned above.
- Of all the girls so far, I thought she was very turned on after she crossed her legs when talking about sex.
- She wouldn't leave until I hug and see her off. She could've left if she wasn't ready. Something that I thought was why she was staying back.
- Also, you guys suggested not to drag the date for hours and bounce soon.
Hope your video pinpoints what response I should expect with sex talk. I haven't watched it yet.

P.s. is there a way for you to shorten the block of text and be more to the point, i literally have to tell other guys to read it and give me bullet points...

Sure. I wanted to include all necessary info to make it easier to analyse and wrote everything relevant. If writing it in bullet points is easy to read, I'll write like above.

 

[Calibration]

IMO you persisted way too hard towards the end.

Haha.. I've been guilty of not persisting enough. In fact some people pointed out here many times. Only thing I was proud of what I did from yesterday was to plow.

My read on this girl is that she wasn't comfortable/compliant enough.

At

I would have stopped. You already tried twice at that point. Leave it. Get her number and take her out on a day 2 and try pulling her again there if you wanted.

If you've seen my past few posts, once I do sex talk and not bounce, it's game over. Also, this girl was going to leave my city soon. So, I had to go for it.

It wasn't gonna happen ever. Reading everything after that was a complete death sentence. Reminded me of this:
gifs.com/gif/ironman-punching-hulk-to-go-to-sleep-pYYnAN

But that doesn't matter if you just stop plowing.
Don't worry, I tend to be the same way. I have persisted really hard in the past but I have gotten better over the time.

I thought persistence was what I was missing. Now this gets a bit confusing...

"Go for the girl, not the lay"
-Glow

Nice quote.. But how do you convey this to the girl? How does she know that I desire her not wanting to just gave sex. This was essentially what I asked in this post. Even the title.

 

[Skills]

Why do you think she wasn't turned on or ready?
- Cos she was contributing to sex talk and qualifying.
- I missed to mention one thing. I said "some girls can be conscious of their body image" when she was talking about small boobs. Then she said, "don't worry I've accepted my body completely now" and a few more things that I mentioned above.
- Of all the girls so far, I thought she was very turned on after she crossed her legs when talking about sex.
- She wouldn't leave until I hug and see her off. She could've left if she wasn't ready. Something that I thought was why she was staying back.
- Also, you guys suggested not to drag the date for hours and bounce soon.
Hope your video pinpoints what response I should expect with sex talk. I haven't watched it yet.

Sure. I wanted to include all necessary info to make it easier to analyse and wrote everything relevant. If writing it in bullet points is easy to read, I'll write like above.

- dude a girl saying she is comfortable with her body is no sex talk or sign of being aroused.

- crossing legs or crossing arms is not a body langage sign of being turn on.

- what does dragging a date for hours or not has to do with her being ready and willing to have sex.

- i said post no video i already have videos on sex talk...

 

[Skills]

Haha.. I've been guilty of not persisting enough. In fact some people pointed out here many times. Only thing I was proud of what I did from yesterday was to plow.

If you've seen my past few posts, once I do sex talk and not bounce, it's game over. Also, this girl was going to leave my city soon. So, I had to go for it.

I thought persistence was what I was missing. Now this gets a bit confusing...

Nice quote.. But how do you convey this to the girl? How does she know that I desire her not wanting to just gave sex. This was essentially what I asked in this post. Even the title.

Brah you did not persist in the past when she was ready to be pulled.

Here you persisted when she was not ready to be pulled..

I was the one that told @Skjöldr to jump in cause he had the same issues you had till early this year.

 

[Calibration]

- dude a girl saying she is comfortable with her body is no sex talk or sign of being aroused.

She said that in the context of US. The way she meant it was like you don't have to worry if I'll be concerned, if we have sex.

- crossing legs or crossing arms is not a body langage sign of being turn on.

Bro, one thing I'm unable to explain to you guys here is, the sexual tension.
- I read one of the posts from Glow from your link above and he talks about "bubble" and we definitely had that bubble.
- If you add sexual tension to my OP, you can relate to what I'm trying to say. It's really hard to explain in words here. There was strong sexual tension.

- what does dragging a date for hours or not has to do with her being ready and willing to have sex.

You mentioned the girl was not ready to be pulled. So, I had to spend more time with her but that negates your suggestion of not dragging the date for a long time.

- i said post no video i already have videos on sex talk...

Huh? Not sure what you mean here...

Brah you did not persist in the past when she was ready to be pulled.

Here you persisted when she was not ready to be pulled..

I was the one that told @Skjöldr to jump in cause he had the same issues you had till early this year.

Calibration. I read some of the posts and also from your suggestions, I understand what you and other senior members here try to say, like making the GIRL CHASE YOU. But I think that needs advanced calibration and most of us here as I understand are not there yet and to get there, it takes time. It has happened with a few girls but that's not the norm IMO.

Having said the above, I also agree that I should not be chasing her. It should at least be like both of us contributing towards the end goal (sex).

 

[Calibration]

I think I found exactly what I was looking for. I read lots and lots of posts and articles and finally this totally relates to what happened yesterday:

How Women Test Men in the Face of Sexual Desire

If you show sexual desire toward a girl you just met, she’ll throw tests your way. If you pass with flying colors, she might get excited to have sex with you. In my last article, we covered why it’s important to show aggressive desire to women. Too few men are doing this properly, so now you can...

www.girlschase.com

It amazes me how this forum or GC site has answers for everything, although finding it is b of a challenge.

Just writing it here, like a self-note so that I'll remember.

When she accused me of wanting to have sex, I should've either teased her or went direct by either of these 2 options:
1. "No, I'm a virgin, I hate sex.." and laughed. (This would've been most congruent since it was playful vibe right from the beginning)
2. "When did I talk about sex? Did I say I want to eat your pussy so much that I give you multiple orgasms? Or did I say I desire you so much that I want to... Anyway, nevermind"

Instead, when I said "No, we'll just dance..", I guess what's when her pussy dried out

 

[Skills]

I think I found exactly what I was looking for. I read lots and lots of posts and articles and finally this totally relates to what happened yesterday:

How Women Test Men in the Face of Sexual Desire

If you show sexual desire toward a girl you just met, she’ll throw tests your way. If you pass with flying colors, she might get excited to have sex with you. In my last article, we covered why it’s important to show aggressive desire to women. Too few men are doing this properly, so now you can...

www.girlschase.com

It amazes me how this forum or GC site has answers for everything, although finding it is b of a challenge.

Just writing it here, like a self-note so that I'll remember.

When she accused me of wanting to have sex, I should've either teased her or went direct by either of these 2 options:
1. "No, I'm a virgin, I hate sex.." and laughed. (This would've been most congruent since it was playful vibe right from the beginning)
2. "When did I talk about sex? Did I say I want to eat your pussy so much that I give you multiple orgasms? Or did I say I desire you so much that I want to... Anyway, nevermind"

Instead, when I said "No, we'll just dance..", I guess what's when her pussy dried out

Jesus! wrong.... Dude context i just read that article flirting about sex in a club with mild flirts (which community confused and over blow shit test) is not the same of a girl knowing she is going to get fucked and not sure about it.... If you want to get higher odds these 2 articles:


This is for "no sex stuff"

Transitions - When she is refusing advances of escalations try this...

so the girl refuse your advances lets say you are escalating and she lets you but she refuse to kiss you or she refuse _______ Fill in the blank on isolation... (could be via verbally or BODY language wise (like tilting head when you are going to kiss her couple of times) So the advice that...

www.skilledseducer.com

and you can play with this to pre-empt:

A gambit about chemistry

Hi So, it is difficult for me to write lay reports now, as I honestly cannot remember details of what happened or the exact timeline. However, instead I have reflected on some things I do consistently and this little gambit I use almost everytime with girls now. I will give you the gambit first...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Will_V]

I think I found exactly what I was looking for. I read lots and lots of posts and articles and finally this totally relates to what happened yesterday:

How Women Test Men in the Face of Sexual Desire

If you show sexual desire toward a girl you just met, she’ll throw tests your way. If you pass with flying colors, she might get excited to have sex with you. In my last article, we covered why it’s important to show aggressive desire to women. Too few men are doing this properly, so now you can...

www.girlschase.com

It amazes me how this forum or GC site has answers for everything, although finding it is b of a challenge.

Just writing it here, like a self-note so that I'll remember.

When she accused me of wanting to have sex, I should've either teased her or went direct by either of these 2 options:
1. "No, I'm a virgin, I hate sex.." and laughed. (This would've been most congruent since it was playful vibe right from the beginning)
2. "When did I talk about sex? Did I say I want to eat your pussy so much that I give you multiple orgasms? Or did I say I desire you so much that I want to... Anyway, nevermind"

Instead, when I said "No, we'll just dance..", I guess what's when her pussy dried out

My friend, you are focusing on tactics when your strategy is failing (props to Chase for making an excellent comment the other day on the question of strategy and tactics, in an unrelated thread).

This cannot work, it can only end in very high investment and very low, diminishing returns.

The strategy is to have the girl wanting to have sex with you. As has been said many times, when a girl wants to have sex with you, there is not a whole lot you have to do to get her to come home with you. But instead of making sure the strategy succeeds, you are trying to reduce the whole equation to a series of tit-for-tat tactics that you and her are employing on eachother.

There is a tendency in people, when their strategic goals are failing, to resort to the obsessive study of tactics, across every domain. Whether it's focusing on pickup lines when fundamentals are shot, focusing on sharp retorts to tooling when one's presence and behaviour is timid and weak, focusing on learning matrix-style kung-fu moves when one does not look remotely intimidating, even in business with the obsession on things like maximizing productivity and filling one's day with endless amounts of 'rituals of success', when a better question is whether the business is viable to begin with. This is because they become anxious and impatient, and in this state, the mind becomes focused on immediate actions and reactions. This tendency must be resisted, at least until it is proven that the strategy is working.

In your field reports, you have come up against many instances of women going out with you, but resisting when it comes to going home. Why does this happen? It is not because you did not come up with the right plausible deniability or the correct way of asking her. It is because she does not have the right combination of comfort and desire to create the impulse to go with you. If that was there, you could ask her to come and play Call of Duty with you and all she would think is 'finally!'.

I suggest you start thinking that 'if she wants to come, she will come', and use the most basic pull line like 'let's go and watch a movie'. You must understand that the movie is not a movie, it is merely a symbolic reason (which could be any reason) to go home where the fun can happen. There is absolutely no world in which substituting 'movie' for any other reason would make a girl want to come and bang when she doesn't already.

If she does not want to come and watch a movie, or drink tea, or sit on your balcony, or whatever, it's because she's not ready to come home, period. That means you have not set the right frames in her mind beforehand.
...
As I mentioned to you via PM, I believe that the problem you have now is neediness. You are trying to prove to yourself that you can reach your former glory (as you say, you were doing well with girls pre-covid and now you're having trouble) and feeling desperate when things are not working out. This is coming out in a weakened connection with her, a lack of ability to maintain the right pacing and perspective throughout the interaction, and confusing behaviour on her part as her internal state clashes with the relatively skillful way you lead the interaction.

I suggest that you focus on being very relaxed and comfortable and enjoying yourself, being present and absorbing her in the moment, creating good rapport as you turn up the sexual framing, and being 'outcome independent' - that is, focused not on any particular girl and whether it will all work out, but on your overall ability to create sexual desire in women and make them compliant as you lead them to the bedroom.

 

[Calibration]

Jesus! wrong.... Dude context i just read that article flirting about sex in a club with mild flirts (which community confused and over blow shit test) is not the same of a girl knowing she is going to get fucked and not sure about it....

Say what you may , I'm convinced she was ready to get fucked but I did something wrong and she backed off.. I'm guessing it is desirability that I mentioned in my last reply but it can be something else as well.. It was a state change but I unknowingly triggered it and can't put a finger on what that is... In my FR I missed a lot of things.

For ex: she said, she almost always fakes orgasm like most of her friends and asked me if I can know if a girl is faking it? when I said yes, she asked me how.. then I talked about orgasm and also about 8 orgasm gambit.. There are many other things which I don't remember indicated that she was ready to get fucked..

If you want to get higher odds these 2 articles:


This is for "no sex stuff"

Transitions - When she is refusing advances of escalations try this...

so the girl refuse your advances lets say you are escalating and she lets you but she refuse to kiss you or she refuse _______ Fill in the blank on isolation... (could be via verbally or BODY language wise (like tilting head when you are going to kiss her couple of times) So the advice that...

www.skilledseducer.com

and you can play with this to pre-empt:

A gambit about chemistry

Hi So, it is difficult for me to write lay reports now, as I honestly cannot remember details of what happened or the exact timeline. However, instead I have reflected on some things I do consistently and this little gambit I use almost everytime with girls now. I will give you the gambit first...

www.skilledseducer.com

Thanks bro for sharing these..

Interesting.... I use both of them with slight variations but I use both of them after ASD when persisting.. From your posts, I got an idea that incorporating them low-key initially would be a good idea to stop ASD happening in the first place.. will think of using them during seduction before ASD in future..

 

[Calibration]

I suggest that you focus on being very relaxed and comfortable and enjoying yourself, being present and absorbing her in the moment, creating good rapport as you turn up the sexual framing, and being 'outcome independent' - that is, focused not on any particular girl and whether it will all work out, but on your overall ability to create sexual desire in women and make them compliant as you lead them to the bedroom.

After we spoke on PM, I realised that my frame is coming across needy for something that I'm trying to prove myself. I've agreed with you and @Skills many times in the past when I knew for sure I was fucking it up.

I have no shame in accepting something that I fuck up with. But with this particular girl, I was exactly like what you described above.. I was very playful, relaxed and in fact I even remembered you telling me once in one if the post that you treat her like you've already fucked her and that was how I was behaving... I was very flirtatious which is my natural way of being with girls but these days I used to be very anxious as I mentioned to you..

Bro, just imagine us in your mind being playful and touching each other in the restaurant, talking a whole lot about sex etc... but there was a complete shift in her energy and behavior right after I came back from the toilet in the restaurant. She had become cold and distant.. Honestly, I don't know what happened.. And that is why I wrote detailed FR to know what really happened.. I read about FSC today and that could be it. All I knew I had to do was to persist. In terms of my inner game, I honestly think it was a success. I was not needy at all. I was persisting only cos I had discussed that I will do that, with you guys here...

 

[StrayDog]

Just read the report. That 'persistance' at the end was pretty rough dude. You are practically arguing with her "fuck you you insulted me" That's a pretty rough angle to come at when she is already expressing a lack of comfort. She senses you have an agenda, she knows that agenda is sex, she has been intrigued enough to hang around and indulge a bit, but ultimately is not comfortable enough yet for her desire to take over and for her to want to take the 'risk' that you insist she should want to take. The reason she is concerned about "a rape" is because she can sense that you are trying to get sex, she does not feel ready, and she does not trust that you will not just try to take it from her any way. You totally sideline her with your apartment "well here it is" then pressure to come up. It is a moment lacking in empathy. This could have been a great moment to allow her to express her apprehensions in a deeper sense not just surface level. The moment you felt her energy change after you got back from the bathroom was probably the best moment to do that ( well before it is "here's my apartment are you coming up or not")
you: Hey this is really fun connecting. We have this cool chemistry that seems fun to explore but you seem kind of distracted. What's going on?"

Then she states her case: well this is fun but I wasn't really expecting to meet a guy like this and I am travelling and I want to be safe, and my friend is waiting...(so on and so on)

Then you reflect back what she says and gather more info: oh yeah being in New places can be kind of overwhelming, I can understand this is unexpected. Your traveling with your friend?

Her: yeah (goes on about friend)
You: that's cool. it's good to have adventure companions. how'd you meet?

you two talk more about her friend and her situation and how traveling is so full of unknowns and uncertainties. You offer her the opportunity to express what she is looking for traveling what she finds exciting and nerve racking and the experiences that are calling her the most, and what her general plan of action is. Use a lot of "sounds like" sentences to get more info. "Sounds like traveling like this is a new experience for you" "sounds like you are really been stretching your comfort zone" "sounds like you have really just been going non stop, one place after the next. do you think you'll slow down a bit, travel in a more restful way?" Give her the room to express some of the anxieties she might have connecting with a total stranger in a foreign land. Rather than just trying to control the frame. Gather info

you: well hey, this is really fun connecting and you clearly have been adventuring non stop and are kind of burnt out. how do we keep connecting where you don't feel overwhelmed?

offer solutions/options that appeal to where she is at emotionally. work through the emotional state as a team.

Her saying " well I do want to keep connecting but my friend is really waiting" is an opportunity for collaboration, not just blanket resistance that needs to be plowed through.

you: sounds like you're conflicted
Her: yeah
you: you're hitting it off with a cute guy but you'd really feel like you'd leave her hanging
Her: I don't want to be a bad friend
You: Do you think she'd understand if you told her we are really hitting it off
Her: well maybe

and so on. this is just one example of how this sort of convo can go but the main point is that you are creating rapport and space for her to open up more. you are approaching the issue of resistance as a collaborative problem solving, and you are tailoring the solution to her emotional reality. This gives her a feeling of agency in the way things go down, then the concern of "rape" (as she stated) isn't even there. why would it be? You have demonstrated that she can trust you as a collaborator. That you are not just pushing an agenda, but instead offer an opportunity for her to explore the feelings you have conjured up in her.

you probably would not have encountered this all in the first place had you done more to build rapport. Like, how did the fact the she is traveling with a friend only come up in the very last minute when she used it as an excuse to bounce? That is a logistic that would have come up sooner if you had done more to understand her situation in the first place.

Don't be arguing with woman about how they are "insulting" you when they express concern you might rape them. She has that concern for a reason, and if she is explicitly expressing that concern to you that is very telling about your interaction.

 

[Calibration]

Just read the report. That 'persistance' at the end was pretty rough dude. You are practically arguing with her "fuck you you insulted me"

I was just pulling her leg dude. From my body language and facial expressions, it was clear I was just being playful.

That's a pretty rough angle to come at when she is already expressing a lack of comfort. She senses you have an agenda, she knows that agenda is sex, she has been intrigued enough to hang around and indulge a bit, but ultimately is not comfortable enough yet for her desire to take over and for her to want to take the 'risk' that you insist she should want to take. The reason she is concerned about "a rape" is because she can sense that you are trying to get sex, she does not feel ready, and she does not trust that you will not just try to take it from her any way. You totally sideline her with your apartment "well here it is" then pressure to come up. It is a moment lacking in empathy. This could have been a great moment to allow her to express her apprehensions in a deeper sense not just surface level. The moment you felt her energy change after you got back from the bathroom was probably the best moment to do that ( well before it is "here's my apartment are you coming up or not")
you: Hey this is really fun connecting. We have this cool chemistry that seems fun to explore but you seem kind of distracted. What's going on?"

Then she states her case: well this is fun but I wasn't really expecting to meet a guy like this and I am travelling and I want to be safe, and my friend is waiting...(so on and so on)

Then you reflect back what she says and gather more info: oh yeah being in New places can be kind of overwhelming, I can understand this is unexpected. Your traveling with your friend?

Her: yeah (goes on about friend)
You: that's cool. it's good to have adventure companions. how'd you meet?

you two talk more about her friend and her situation and how traveling is so full of unknowns and uncertainties. You offer her the opportunity to express what she is looking for traveling what she finds exciting and nerve racking and the experiences that are calling her the most, and what her general plan of action is. Use a lot of "sounds like" sentences to get more info. "Sounds like traveling like this is a new experience for you" "sounds like you are really been stretching your comfort zone" "sounds like you have really just been going non stop, one place after the next. do you think you'll slow down a bit, travel in a more restful way?" Give her the room to express some of the anxieties she might have connecting with a total stranger in a foreign land. Rather than just trying to control the frame. Gather info

you: well hey, this is really fun connecting and you clearly have been adventuring non stop and are kind of burnt out. how do we keep connecting where you don't feel overwhelmed?

offer solutions/options that appeal to where she is at emotionally. work through the emotional state as a team.

Her saying " well I do want to keep connecting but my friend is really waiting" is an opportunity for collaboration, not just blanket resistance that needs to be plowed through.

you: sounds like you're conflicted
Her: yeah
you: you're hitting it off with a cute guy but you'd really feel like you'd leave her hanging
Her: I don't want to be a bad friend
You: Do you think she'd understand if you told her we are really hitting it off
Her: well maybe

and so on. this is just one example of how this sort of convo can go but the main point is that you are creating rapport and space for her to open up more. you are approaching the issue of resistance as a collaborative problem solving, and you are tailoring the solution to her emotional reality. This gives her a feeling of agency in the way things go down, then the concern of "rape" (as she stated) isn't even there. why would it be? You have demonstrated that she can trust you as a collaborator. That you are not just pushing an agenda, but instead offer an opportunity for her to explore the feelings you have conjured up in her.

you probably would not have encountered this all in the first place had you done more to build rapport. Like, how did the fact the she is traveling with a friend only come up in the very last minute when she used it as an excuse to bounce? That is a logistic that would have come up sooner if you had done more to understand her situation in the first place.

Don't be arguing with woman about how they are "insulting" you when they express concern you might rape them. She has that concern for a reason, and if she is explicitly expressing that concern to you that is very telling about your interaction.

I agree with the rest of it. I think this is it.

Now I can relate to her behavior based on our interaction. This is exactly how she was feeling. If I had introduced this level of rapport, she'd have definitely come with me, now that I relate. One thing I have to say is, I should've done all of this before she showed any resistance. Cos I did try to comfort her although I've missed those parts in the report but it was probably too late.

Anyway, I have a few questions:
1. I have always struggled with building comfort cos it kills attraction. Tbh, I don't know what comfort is. From your examples, I gather that it's being empathetic and friendly (with that tone of voice as well). I totally understand what comfort feels like now. If I discuss with her like this, doesn't this come across as negotiating for sex?
2. It takes time to establish this level of connection but guys here have suggested not to drag out the date for too long. What's your point of view?
3. On one hand I'm thinking I should be discussing all this before she puts up any resistance but that comes with the presumption that she's thinking of sex. Doesn't it trigger her ASD? For ex: If I say "you're hitting it off with a cute guy", doesn't she think "oh! Did I come across easy to him?"

Anyway, good analysis dude.

 

[Boom_1982]

Several experts have commented here however @Shawn I think you need to understand timing, calibration and strategize accordingly on next steps. Focus on getting to know her and move ahead. Your next step should be logical outcome from previous step.

 

[StrayDog]

I was just pulling her leg dude. From my body language and facial expressions, it was clear I was just being playful.

Yeah but was 'pulling her leg' really a good strategy here? Regardless of how you intended it this did absolutely nothing to address her concern and put her at ease. Instead, it comes across as dismissive. Instead of showing "hey I understand you are concerned, and there is a reason you are concerned, let me show you that there is no need to be concerned." It basically sub communicates "your concern is ridiculous." Maybe to you, it is ridiculous because you know you will not rape her, but to her, it is very real. Unless you can address this concern in a meaningful way...Strategic flexibility.

Also, the words "fuck you" have a certain charge to them. Sure there are times with buddies and people you are really close with when saying those words teasingly is understood and well received. And yeah some people who are practically strangers are more open to extreme ribbing than others. But man, those two words together is a real social risk. There are plenty of good-humored women who would otherwise be game, who the moment they hear those words (no matter the tone) will feel their attraction immediately deflate. Think about it. How many people do you know that can get away with saying "fuck you" to you, without you second-guessing their intentions? Especially when she is concerned about rape. "I do not feel comfortable, I am concerned about rape" "Fuck you..."
"Wait, what did he just say to me? Playful tone be damned, I'm out"

Anyway, I have a few questions:
1. I have always struggled with building comfort cos it kills attraction.

Comfort only kills attraction if you have too much in relation to other aspects of the seduction. It is like salting a dish. It is absolutely essential to the flavor of the dish, but too much ruins the whole thing. Each woman is going to have her own 'taste" for comfort, so how this key ingredient is applied will vary from dish to dish. When you salt a dish, you build as you go. Add a little more to taste and a little more. You are measured. You are still salting the dish throughout the whole cooking process until that one bite really sings and you know it is time to savor this delicious and nourishing meal. So, yes comfort can kill attraction, but it also builds attraction. You are looking to build the perfect balance of comfort and sexual tension. One without the other just won't work.
In this particular interaction, it was clear from the get-go that comfort was going to be a major factor. What was basically the first thing she expressed to you the moment you two met? "I am scared of strangers."

If I discuss with her like this, doesn't this come across as negotiating for sex?

But that is precisely what seduction is. Negotiating and mutually navigating the subtle emotional and psychological dynamics around sexual intimacy. Creating win-win scenarios for all participating parties. The key is doing it in a way that doesn't feel transactional tit for tat (seduction is not a negotiation of contractual agreements). Weaving this negotiation process into the whole seduction ark so it doesn't just bottleneck at the end (then the negotiation process just sticks out like a sore thumb. Though not always insurmountable).

I little while back I was reflecting on how many successful seductions have hinged on moments of raw negotiation. Sometimes even in the 11th hour. moments where a woman and I literally just negotiate what feels fun and comfortable and sexy "Whens the last time you were spontaneous like this?" "Sounds like you don't do this often" "How can I help you trust the situation" "Would you feel more comfortable if we..." "Sounds like you are having fun but you are not sure you're ready to get hang out alone" "Sounds like this is a new sort of experience for you" "Sounds like you're looking for someone to put you in your place, little lady " It was actually kind of a shocking revelation, just how much success has come from totally out in the open negotiation.

2. It takes time to establish this level of connection but guys here have suggested not to drag out the date for too long. What's your point of view?

Comfort is not just about time spent. It's about how someone makes you feel. building comfort could take 20 seconds if she is made to feel comfortable. Could take hours. but sometimes this can happen like the flip of a switch. Have you ever been in a situation where you were trepidatious, and someone was able to say or do something that put you immediately put you at ease? As a general rule focus on building rapport and a sense of connection with her from the get-go and you will have more to work with as the connection grows.

3. On one hand I'm thinking I should be discussing all this before she puts up any resistance but that comes with the presumption that she's thinking of sex. Doesn't it trigger her ASD? For ex: If I say "you're hitting it off with a cute guy", doesn't she think "oh! Did I come across easy to him?"

Yeah, maybe you will trigger ASD if you jump the gun. I mean, if you can't even be trust saying that she is "hitting it off with a cute guy" then what then are you doing standing right in front of your apartment trying to slide into the home base? You are way too many steps ahead right now. Recognize what phase of the seduction you are at, and adjust accordingly. But yes I believe there is a time when you can be very open and upfront about the situation with her.

Also, sometimes holding a poker face is not always the best strategy. Like dude, she knows why you brought her to your apartment. Maybe if you were more honest about the situation she would be more up to exploring it with you.

Her: I know you are going to try to have sex with me
You: well, aren't you sure of yourself (teasing)? Look it's not like I haven't considered it but you seem pretty apprehensive and Not really sure what I can say to help you feel more comfortable though. Besides, I am just enjoying hanging out and yes sex would be fun but more so I am just happy to keep exploring this connection (this rings true when you say it because you have already built a strong sense of connection and rapport) and I'd love to show you some of my art and hang out but I am not really interested in convincing you I am not a rapist because what can I say anyway? No, I won't rape you? I mean I won't but what else can I say?"
Her: Yeah I don't know I guess maybe you can't really say anything
You: But you are enjoying yourself? or am I just making that up?
Her: Yeah it is fun, I just don't know I feel uncomfortable
You: Well I am happy to keep connecting but it is important you feel comfortable, and it is not like we have to keep hanging out (she can sense that you are totally comfortable with walking away). If we just have one cup of tea and we promise that we don't get into anything that feels uncomfortable for you, does that feel right? Or how can we keep hanging out in a way that feels comfortable?
Her: Yeah, I guess one tea doesn't sound bad
You: Okay, are you sure? You seemed kind of freaked out.
Her: Yeah I'm sure. Let's have some tea.
You: Okay I just want to be sure

Change the subject and proceed up the elevator

Sometimes she just wants to be sure that you are considering her concerns and sense of well-being.

I have had conversations like this with a woman, almost verbatim, and we ended up having amazing sex that felt comfortable and easy for both of us.
I am not saying this tactic will work for every situation. But if the desire and attraction are already there, sometimes you can just be upfront, and generous and it pays off.

 

[Calibration]

Yeah but was 'pulling her leg' really a good strategy here? Regardless of how you intended it this did absolutely nothing to address her concern and put her at ease. Instead, it comes across as dismissive. Instead of showing "hey I understand you are concerned, and there is a reason you are concerned, let me show you that there is no need to be concerned." It basically sub communicates "your concern is ridiculous." Maybe to you, it is ridiculous because you know you will not rape her, but to her, it is very real. Unless you can address this concern in a meaningful way...Strategic flexibility.

As you'd know, breaking rapport is one way of building rapport. As with any relationship, breaking rapport strengthens bonds. However, in this specific scenario, I agree that it might've come across as brushing off her concern of safety/rape.

You pointed out correctly that I brushed it off cos I was seeing it from my point of view and makes sense for her to panic when she hasn't known me for a long time. Perhaps, she was imagining worst case scenarios which I might've not even thought of. This gives a new perspective to how I look at seduction going forward.

Also, the words "fuck you" have a certain charge to them. Sure there are times with buddies and people you are really close with when saying those words teasingly is understood and well received. And yeah some people who are practically strangers are more open to extreme ribbing than others. But man, those two words together is a real social risk. There are plenty of good-humored women who would otherwise be game, who the moment they hear those words (no matter the tone) will feel their attraction immediately deflate. Think about it. How many people do you know that can get away with saying "fuck you" to you, and you won't feel weird about the fact they just said those words. Especially when she is concerned about rape. "I do not feel comfortable, I am concerned about rape" "Fuck you..."
"Wait, what did he just say to me? Playful tone be damned, I'm out"

This is contextual, which should take into account our interaction so far, my body language and vibe etc. If taken out of context, I agree it comes across crude but our interaction so far had provided sufficient cushioning to land comfortably and for her to not take it literally or as an insult.

Looking back, I think this was why she was confused. Either she should've left or come home with me but she was actually confused cos she might've felt that I'm a cool enough guy to say "fuck you" to a newly met person but not cool enough to actually verbalize solutions to her concerns in a friendly way to make her feel comfortable.

I'm now thinking of all the successes and failures I've had and there is a common denominator. When I've failed, this has happened mostly with shy and introverted girls or girls who haven't been around guys (friends, siblings etc) who have a certain way of being communicated to (call it love language) and unless I've communicated that way, they'll not concede.
On the other hand, there are girls who have had a lot of guy friends or male siblings for example, for them they feel comfortable just by picking up the vibe to trust him and doesn't need to be explicitly told that they're safe and not even spoken to in a soft way. These are the ones I've mostly had success I guess.

Comfort only kills attraction if you have too much in relation to other aspects of the seduction. It is like salting a dish. It is absolutely essential to the flavor of the dish, but too much ruins the whole thing. Each woman is going to have her own 'taste" for comfort, so how this key ingredient is applied will vary from dish to dish. When you salt a dish, you build as you go. Add a little more to taste and a little more. You are measured. You are still salting the dish throughout the whole cooking process until that one bite really sings and you know it is time to savor this delicious and nourishing meal. So, yes comfort can kill attraction, but it also builds attraction. You are looking to build the perfect balance of comfort and sexual tension. One without the other just won't work.
In this particular interaction, it was clear from the get-go that comfort was going to be a major factor. What was basically the first thing she expressed to you the moment you two met? "I am scared of strangers."

Yes, I agree totally with this, as I mentioned above.

But that is precisely what seduction is. Negotiating and mutually navigating the subtle emotional and psychological dynamics around sexual intimacy. Creating win-win scenarios for all participating parties. The key is doing it in a way that doesn't feel transactional tit for tat. Weaving this negotiation process into the whole seduction ark so it doesn't just bottleneck at the end (then the negotiation process just sticks out like a sore thumb. Though not always insurmountable).

When I meant negotiation, I meant only I "wanting" to have sex. I think I'm hesitant/afraid to make an assumption that she's into me, perhaps fearing rejection (I should contemplate on this).

I little while back I was reflecting on how many successful seductions have hinged on moments of raw negotiation. Sometimes even in the 11th hour. moments where a woman and I literally just negotiate what feels fun and comfortable and sex "Whens the last time you were spontaneous like this?" "Sounds like you don't do this often" "How can I help you trust the situation" "Would you feel more comfortable if we..." "Sounds like you are having fun but you are not sure you're ready to get hang out alone" "Sounds like this is a new sort of experience for you" "Sounds like you want someone to put you in your place " It was actually kind of a shocking revelation, just how much success has come from totally out in the open negotiation.



Comfort is not just about time spent. It's about how someone makes you feel. building comfort could take 20 seconds if she is made to feel comfortable. Could take hours. but sometimes this can happen like the flip of a switch. Have you ever been in a situation where you were trepidatious, and someone was able to say or do something that put you immediately put you at ease? As a general rule focus on building rapport and a sense of connection with her from the get-go and you will have more to work with as the connection grows.

Good point. There are certain demographics that easily I can connect with based on a number of factors and others it does take time since I haven't been around them much. So, ya I think leaning on the side of knowing her more is better than leaning on the side of moving fast. This also comes with more experience to calibrate, how much knowing her is too less or too much but still what I said earlier applies.

Yeah, maybe you will trigger ASD if you jump the gun. Recognize what phase of the seduction you are at, and adjust accordingly. But yes I believe there is a time when you can be very open and upfront about your desires with her.

Also, sometimes holding a poker face is not always the best strategy. Like dude, she knows why you brought her to your apartment. Maybe if you were more honest about the situation she would be more up to exploring it with you.

100%. She was wanting to have sex and if I was just honest, she'd have probably been more comfortable than anything. Her safety overrided her arousal. I in fact asked her if she feels judged by me or anyone and she said "no, I don't know anyone here and nobody knows me. So, I'm not really worried about that".

Her: I know you are going to try to have sex with me
You: well, aren't you sure of yourself (teasing)? Look it's not like I haven't considered it but you seem pretty apprehensive and Not really sure what I can say to help you feel more comfortable though. Besides, I am just enjoying hanging out and yes sex would be fun but more so I am just happy to keep exploring this connection (this rings true when you say it because you have already built a strong sense of connection and rapport) and I'd love to show you some of my art and hang out but I am not really interested in convincing you

I think this would've been more than enough to comfort her.

I am not a rapist because what can I say anyway? No, I won't rape you? I mean I won't but what else can I say?"
Her: Yeah I don't know I guess maybe you can't really say anything

Believe it or not. I said exactly this and she responded exactly that.

You: But you are enjoying yourself? or am I just making that up?
Her: Yeah it is fun, I just don't know I feel uncomfortable

This too.

You: Well I am happy to keep connecting but it is important you feel comfortable, and it is not like we have to keep hanging out (she can sense that you are totally comfortable with walking away). If we just have one cup of tea and we promise that we don't get into anything that feels uncomfortable for you, does that feel right? Or how can we keep hanging out in a way that feels comfortable?

I asked this as well and she said she doesn't know. I suggested, what if we go for a drive in my car if you feel very uncomfortable to come to my apartment? Or just sit outside in my balcony? Where there are neighbors who can see and we can see them as well. She said NO.

Her: Yeah, I guess one tea doesn't sound bad
You: Okay, are you sure? You seemed kind of freaked out.
Her: Yeah I'm sure. Let's have some tea.
You: Okay I just want to be sure

At this point, I asked if she really doesn't want to spend time with me? She said NO and I saw her off. I think she felt that she can't take a chance anyway. So better to lie and leave than to be truthful and risk.

Change the subject and proceed up the elevator

Sometimes she just wants to be sure that you are considering her concerns and sense of well-being.

I have had this conversation with a woman almost verbatim and we ended up having amazing sex that felt comfortable and easy for both of us.
I am not saying this tactic will work for every situation. But if the desire and attraction are already there, sometimes you can just be upfront, and generous and it pays off.

I agree and I also admit that regardless of what you do, there are girls who you can't comfort no matter what and at some point you have to give up. Cos there is only so much you can do. There was a lot I could've done better but still there was no guarantee I could've convinced her cos she was very apprehensive.

Anyway, thanks bro for taking the time to explain and answer with examples. It really helped me.

 

[StrayDog]

Oh oops, I kind of edited my post by the time you quoted it, but the basic gist is still the same.

Any way

When I meant negotiation, I meant only I "wanting" to have sex. I think I'm hesitant/afraid to make an assumption that she's into me, perhaps fearing rejection (I should contemplate on this).

I have found that for me often when this fear creeps in that she will feel like I am only wanting sex it is because I myself don't feel like I feel a strong enough connection with her. Like I don't fully feel comfortable with her or trust the interaction and yet my desire for sex is overriding that. It is like my intuition is telling me that a piece is missing. Maybe it is something about how we are relating to each other on a more fundamental level, maybe it is something I am picking up on about her character that doesn't quite hit with me, or maybe it is a missing stage to the seduction arc. I mean, if I don't trust the connection how can I expect her to?

Yeah after hearing how you were negotiating things, It sounds like the real killer here was not building comfort and rapport sooner in the seduction, well before it even got to that point. I think blindsiding her with your apartment instead of seeding the pull first was probably another element that threw her for a loop, caught her off guard, and undermined the trust.

 

[Calibration]

Yeah after hearing how you were negotiating things, It sounds like the real killer here was not building comfort and rapport sooner in the seduction, well before it even got to that point. I think blindsiding her with your apartment instead of seeding the pull first was probably another element that threw her for a loop, caught her off guard, and undermined the trust.

True. Probably she felt she was tricked cos I had said we're going for a walk and then I suddenly brought her to my apartment. She was enjoying our time at the restaurant and I thought I should bounce and said let's go for a walk. When she brought up her friend, I thought I'm just dragging this unnecessarily and took her straight to home which is where it all started going downhill.
@POB once said seduction IS hard and I always remember that and it is indeed.. these lessons hopefully help me in the long run

Also, I don't know where but I read somewhere that if a girl is ready to fuck you, then you're picking her up but if she's not, then you're seducing her, which explains what that means here.