Jordan Peterson on Pick Up

Hue

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Glad to see Peterson recognize some good things about the community. Here he seems to be talking about some older style pick up with having conversation stacks with quite a negative connotation.

Makes you think though..
 

Tony D

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I like JP. We live in a time where men don't have any intellectual role models. We have only entrepreneurs, Youtubers, social media influencers and pop/movie stars So if there's someone like JP out there to influence men, who am I to shit on him? He's very prolific, influential, and on my side of the culture war.
 

Hue

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I think some of the criticisms of JP are fair. He sneaks in pieces of information during his long winded answers sometimes that are questionable.

Overall, he's pretty damn solid though. His overall message is empowering and practical. Some of his psychology lectures have changed my attitudes and understanding of life a great deal, like a quote from his lecture, "people don't possess ideas, ideas possess people", that shit sticks with you and can really go a long way.
 

Mr.Rob

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JP has done a phenomenal job of taking a non-mainstream message mainstream. I agree with Tony here, men have no role models and pickup GirlsChase stuff will only ever be relevant to a small minority of ppl. JP can reach a lot of men with a good upright message in a world where the mainstream role model of masculinity is a narcissitic football player doing the moonwalk and banging on his chest after getting a first down with 50 yards left to go LOL.
 

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I do not like this guy at all. While he is probably not an evil person or has bad intentions, he is a major KJ and regularly talks BS about stuff he does not know anything about. His field of expertise is personality psychology. His points on sex differences in STEM or leadership positions are more or less legit, I think. Regretfully, like many other academics, he does not know his limits and will pop into subjects he knows nothing about and make authoritative statements.

For example, this claim about PUAs are "psychopaths" for wanting to lay a random girl in a bar is outright ridiculous. You can very well criticize such a goal, but there has been done studies in evo-psych which found that maybe 50-75% of men will agree with sex with a random attractive female stranger (one source https://www.thenation.com/article/survival-sexiest/ ) . The number of psychopaths is much smaller, 3-4% maybe.

This is really something a professor of psychology should know.

Also he is not experienced with women at all, less so than an ordinary guy I suppose as he married his childhood love. He has not gone through a standard exploration phase before settling down ( https://www.girlschase.com/content/why-people-settle-down-3-step-settling-curve ).

I believe this causes him to hold such white knight views (why are only the MEN who want to hook up considered to be psychopaths?).

Also this guy is now late 50s and still has not beaten his depression. Who is he to tell you about how to fix your life? He outright violates his own principle "set your house in order before you criticize the world." Well his own house is not in order. His worldview seems to be very gloomy judging from all accounts about how tragic existence is, life is suffering etc. I am uninterested in the worldview of whiners. He should speak for himself. I also refuse to take psychological or life advice from mentally ill people who haven't solved their problem.

Now I generally dislike coming with criticism without being constructive. So I will advice people instead to study the book "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. This guy is also a psychotherapist. I read it about 10 years ago and it covers a lot of the same topics as JP does, however there are much more actionable exercises and no moralization. Or vague gibberish language. It is a shame that he isn't more known. Note that this guy also holds PUAs in a bit of negative regard, however his criticisms are more rooted in reality "They are geeks with techniques". Additionally, this guy does not seem to be mentally ill or fatalistic.

This post by me is to a large degree inspired by Glover: https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-avoid-being-nice-guy
 
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Space

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Now I generally dislike coming with criticism without being constructive. So I will advice people instead to study the book "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. This guy is also a psychotherapist. I read it about 10 years ago and it covers a lot of the same topics as JP does, however there are much more actionable exercises and no moralization. Or vague gibberish language. It is a shame that he isn't more known. Note that this guy also holds PUAs in a bit of negative regard, however his criticisms are more rooted in reality "They are geeks with techniques". Additionally, this guy does not seem to be mentally ill or fatalistic.
Glover just came out a new book called Dating Essentials for Men: The Only Dating Guide You Will Ever Need available on Amazon.
 

Chase

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Also this guy is now late 50s and still has not beaten his depression. Who is he to tell you about how to fix your life? He outright violates his own principle "set your house in order before you criticize the world." Well his own house is not in order. His worldview seems to be very gloomy judging from all accounts about how tragic existence is, life is suffering etc. I am uninterested in the worldview of whiners. He should speak for himself. I also refuse to take psychological or life advice from mentally ill people who haven't solved their problem.
I've suspected for a while that one of Jordan Peterson's appeals is that there are a lot of guys out there who, like him, still struggle off-and-on with depression, still aren't totally sure exactly what they want to do with their lives, and he's more relatable for them than the guy who's got all his ducks in a row.

He also has the appeal for a lot of people I think as a guy who is kind of edgy, and goes up against people they do not like, but who is still in the safe zone where you can actually talk about liking his stuff in polite conversation and it is not going to get you into trouble.

Chase
 

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I will also give him that he likely struck a chord in a lot of guys with his insistence that they should have a higher purpose in life than temporary happiness, and that you are responsible for the course your own life. The number of people I know who are miserable for not having a real purpose other than TV watching or consumerism, or who have ended up with some victim mentality blaming external factors for their own failure is large.
 

Dr Feelgood

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I will also give him that he likely struck a chord in a lot of guys with his insistence that they should have a higher purpose in life than temporary happiness, and that you are responsible for the course your own life. The number of people I know who are miserable for not having a real purpose other than TV watching or consumerism, or who have ended up with some victim mentality blaming external factors for their own failure is large.

can you recommend some ressource in that regard? (purpose)
 

Space

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Okay.

I've suspected for a while that one of Jordan Peterson's appeals is that there are a lot of guys out there who, like him, still struggle off-and-on with depression, still aren't totally sure exactly what they want to do with their lives, and he's more relatable for them than the guy who's got all his ducks in a row.
I don't have depression, I know what to do with my life at least as much as most people maybe more than that, but hey, it's about the road, not the destination. Being vulnerable gives you a human touch but I got this idea from Glover, etc. (Mark Mason), not Peterson.

So you presumably liked Tim Ferriss more at the time of his 1st TED Talk (Tim Ferriss, the superhuman) and his 2nd TED Talk was maybe ... where you lost him (so, the guy I though was a superhuman really is just a vulnerable human)? His 2nd talk was what made him human to me.

This could have went to the David Tian topic (where I planned a longer post about other things, never mind) as his podcast is called Man Up! Man up! is one of the most toxic thing you can say to yourself as a man. I don't mean it in the sense feminists think about "toxic masculinity" but in the sense that men can be toxic for themselves. This thinking causes men to live shorter lives, commit suicide at a higher rate, suffer more from substance abuse than women, etc.

He also has the appeal for a lot of people I think as a guy who is kind of edgy, and goes up against people they do not like, but who is still in the safe zone where you can actually talk about liking his stuff in polite conversation and it is not going to get you into trouble.
I don't find him edgy. Once he got me into a healthy debate with one of his fellow countrymates, that's all.
 

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Chieftan
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can you recommend some ressource in that regard? (purpose)
There has been some posts about it at GC at least

 

Hector Papi Castillo

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JP is awesome with everything except for the more savage side of pickup. he even talks about pickup in general terms and knows that women like strong, heroic, and masculine men. He's not exactly an archetype of masculinity, but he is strong in many ways. He endured a shitstorm from the public that very few of us could handle with the gumption he did. He eventually broke recently and is being shamed for it, but he has a kind heart, and I empathize heavily with him.

That being said, he's a beta with relationships. And he's more societally-focused with his views on sexual morality

He's said explicitly in interviews (i've watched a LOT of his videos) that

- He only disagrees with promiscuity for one reason: how it affects the rearing of children in a society of hedonism

- He thinks it's good to be attractive to a lot of women and be high value but you should only choose one woman in the service of a cohesive society built upon the nuclear family

Add in some hardcore militarism to make sure men are killers/defenders (since JP lacks in the testosterone area), and his advice is pretty much the recipe for a super strong society.

Unfortunately, that super strong society is built off of your limiting of yourself in the name of collective success.

Since i disagree with his basic premises, I think his view on pickup/sexuality is, while informative, highly misguided.

Hector
 

Watts

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Also he is not experienced with women at all, less so than an ordinary guy I suppose as he married his childhood love. He has not gone through a standard exploration phase before settling down ( https://www.girlschase.com/content/why-people-settle-down-3-step-settling-curve ).
Honestly came here to say this. And I generally like JP a lot. I just recognize where people have competencies and I can learn from them, where we are likely to learn together, and where I could probably be the one teaching them!

Also, generally agree with Hector above.
 
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