What's new

FR 
Last NG of Summer

Dark_Stallion

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 31, 2024
Messages
195
Went back to the same bar, last time this summer, was more of a bar hopping experience, I visited 3 different bars.

I went out with one friend, pink t shirt and black jeans, simple/basic fit tbh, we met up with another friend.

Bar 1:

We started going up to groups with openers, at first they were polite but clearly not interested.

Finally, one of the other guys approached a group of 3 girls, and I slid in to talk to one of the girls.

This girl seemed receptive, flirting back at my teases, she was talking with me, but bouncers of that club got their attention and they never came back.

Tbh not enough interest so we just left it.

He went up to another group of 3, and I did the same thing, this girl seemed way more receptive.

This girl and I started talking, I flirted with her, run the “let me see your hands routine” delivered some teases. She said she’s talking to someone, I said “oh so there’s no ring on it.” She said she’s talking was the one holding commitment. Hugged her goodbye, got insta and gave her a cheek kiss.

Tbh it was ok interest, nothing special and would have just wasted more time.

Bar 2:

We go to the second bar, where it’s a much different vibe, our first time here as well.

Talked to one girl, who seemed receptive, unfortunately, she had a bf, and were with a group of girls and guys all dating.

Talked to someone girls, not many interested or had bfs, though I was 21 in a 23+ old bar, and it was my first time.

Bar 3:

We got to this bar, and just started to chill for a bit. Approached some girls, none that receptive immediately.

Finally, wing and I approached 2 girls,

My opener was “you stole my outfit!” She played along, however she tried to get shots from me, to which I said no, not right now. I think I won the frame battle since she kept talking and complying, instead of running away or dismissing me. Called her a naught girl for trying to get shots out of me, which she denied(bad frame I know). Mostly kept teasing her, and asked her some questions in between, and ran the “let me see your hands routine” after asking her job, did good amount of kino, she was comfortable with me touching her hair and brushing it aside. Tbh I was being a bit over the top sexual with this one, I wanted to see how far I could push my limits. Imo this girl was super hot, 9/10 yesterday, tbh looking at her insta more like 8/10 today. At one point I said she “had to do something from the heart” and slightly poked her tit. Tbh she didn’t really react or call me out on it, was a quick movement, like half a second. Eventually, I said “I wanna do something right now, but it’s a bit too soon.” She picked up that I wanted to kiss her, and she said “it’s too soon” I repeated that’s literally what I said. I had to tell her that three times cuz she just didn’t hear me. Women sometimes. Eventually I insta closed with the (false) promise of an after party, and getting drinks another time, to which she seemed very receptive.

I ran into her later, and her friend was pulling her a bit from me, even though she was clearly comfortable with me, though the friend was trying to shoo me a bit when I first met them until my wing came in. Tbh I think the girl was a bit salty that I wasn’t giving her attention, and wanted her friend.

Maybe there’s a chance the girl I was talking to was slightly uncomfortable, but every time I did something sexual, she responded neutral or was receptive to me being sexual, seeming to like it, and the most important thing was, she was still staying there, not trying to create any distance between us.

Near the end, I met a 23 year old girl on her birthday, used the love island can I pull you line, ran some kino, when I went to grab her numbers she said she’s was married.

Any tips to work or improve on, also should I tone down the sexual actions, like with that one girl. She never seemed uncomfortable, so I think I can try it on other receptive girls.
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake

Dark_Stallion

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 31, 2024
Messages
195
UPDATE: The girl who I went sexually over the top, she just unfollowed me on instagram after not responding to my icebreaker text, idk if she was faking interest yesterday(hopefully not) or she woke up this morning feeling different(I can live with that tbh)
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,562
@Dark_Stallion,

Good work getting out, approaching, running group sets, and testing out new material ("let me see your hands" routine).

Sounds like you had some interest from some of the girls, and others not. That is normal.

The girl asking for shots right away is a bit ridiculous. Deflecting it is the safest call.

"I wanna do something right now" is a very strong statement of intent. Did she earn this (through, for instance, heavy compliance, auto-investing, lots of touch, closing the distance, opening up about herself, etc.)? I'm guessing probably not? In which case it positions you as the chaser. Her telling you repeatedly that it's too soon and you having to tell her that repeatedly probably tanked the frame. It sounds like it ended soon after that?

That and the friend pulling her away later were the critical moments.

FOR FIREFIGHTING:

  • After she denied the kiss suggestion, you needed to get some alternate strong compliance from her to reverse the negative compliance. e.g., get her to go sit down somewhere with you, or move to the bar, or something along those lines.

  • When the friend tried pulling her away, you needed to engage the friend and chat her up some so she'd like you and stop cockblocking you.

FOR PREVENTION:

  • Don't ask or suggest kissing in public so you don't blow your spot. Save it for after the pull, once you're in your seduction location with her.

  • Meet the friend right away and win her over as one of the first things you do. That way she is not trying to drag your girl away from you later on!

Clean those two bits up and your approaching should bear more fruit!

Cheers,
Chase
 

Dark_Stallion

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 31, 2024
Messages
195
@Dark_Stallion,

Good work getting out, approaching, running group sets, and testing out new material ("let me see your hands" routine).

Sounds like you had some interest from some of the girls, and others not. That is normal.
Thanks Chase, appreciate the reply brother
The girl asking for shots right away is a bit ridiculous. Deflecting it is the safest call.
Normally when they ask for shots(most girls don't tbh), I deflect then they shoo me away, since this girl was still chatting with me, I took it more of a shit test I passed by not buying her shots. No way am I buying a girl shots, especially when I just met her. Female friends sometimes ask me to buy them drinks, I usually deflect, since I don't drink much at the bar or club itself.
"I wanna do something right now" is a very strong statement of intent. Did she earn this (through, for instance, heavy compliance, auto-investing, lots of touch, closing the distance, opening up about herself, etc.)? I'm guessing probably not? In which case it positions you as the chaser. Her telling you repeatedly that it's too soon and you having to tell her that repeatedly probably tanked the frame. It sounds like it ended soon after that?
That and the friend pulling her away later were the critical moments.
There was a lot of heavy touch, and closing the distance, consistently I was able to brush her hair back behind her ear to talk to her more, hold her hands, gain compliance through touch, we were right on top of each other.

Tbh I didn't realize me having to repeatedly say "it's too soon" as well tanked the frame, it did end soon after that though, hard to make a wittier reply in the bar playing loud music.
FOR FIREFIGHTING:

  • After she denied the kiss suggestion, you needed to get some alternate strong compliance from her to reverse the negative compliance. e.g., get her to go sit down somewhere with you, or move to the bar, or something along those lines.
Yup, something to work on next time, though if I had reversed the negative compliance, I had a chance at the pull I'm assuming, that's the way you see it right?


  • When the friend tried pulling her away, you needed to engage the friend and chat her up some so she'd like you and stop cockblocking you.
Yeah, need to work on winning the friend over, that same night, went straight up to a girl, asked her how her night was going, she said good, before I could do anything else, her friends pulled her away.

Too soon to see whether she was interested in meeting a guy, was definitely more open to the point where her friends pulling her away is a bit of a weird reaction, after asking a simple question.
FOR PREVENTION:

  • Don't ask or suggest kissing in public so you don't blow your spot. Save it for after the pull, once you're in your seduction location with her.

  • Meet the friend right away and win her over as one of the first things you do. That way she is not trying to drag your girl away from you later on!

Clean those two bits up and your approaching should bear more fruit!

Cheers,
Chase
Yes, need to work on winning the group over especially, usually with a wingman or two its much easier, as I don't have to engage the whole group to finally isolate the girl I like, in quieter venues, should be chill, but in a bar with blaring loud music, it's a bit harder.

Cheers brother
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,562
@Dark_Stallion,

Tbh I didn't realize me having to repeatedly say "it's too soon" as well tanked the frame, it did end soon after that though, hard to make a wittier reply in the bar playing loud music.

What tanked it was saying you "want to do something" then backpedalling on it in an unsmooth way.

Tanked for a few reasons:

  1. Unless she has EARNED you "wanting to" kiss her, you are chasing. Frame tanks.
  2. If she balks and you then backpedal, she has fazed you. Frame tanks further.
  3. If you then repeat that, you are really shook. Frame tanks further still

The smoother way is to escalate to the kiss to the point where she is angling for the kiss herself and YOU are the one telling her, "Not here, not here," while leading her forward.

However, if you are trying to move fast and skip steps and not waste time with girls who aren't DTF and very into you early on, you can try bold moves -- but you should know how to retreat from them skillfully in that case if they flop.

Grand Master had a good way of doing this. He would make very sexual comments to women, then if they balked he would announce "Just kidding!" and laugh at them. Then keep doing that again and again until they did not balk, at which point he would not take it back and instead just escalated.

His GM style might be worth checking out for ideas:


Yup, something to work on next time, though if I had reversed the negative compliance, I had a chance at the pull I'm assuming, that's the way you see it right?

I don't know if you could've pulled (other mistakes might have popped up; or, likely, the friend would've cockblocked), but she would've stayed in the set and hooked harder.

Girls you get complying significantly after overcoming negative compliance tend to hook in hard.

Yeah, need to work on winning the friend over, that same night, went straight up to a girl, asked her how her night was going, she said good, before I could do anything else, her friends pulled her away.

Too soon to see whether she was interested in meeting a guy, was definitely more open to the point where her friends pulling her away is a bit of a weird reaction, after asking a simple question.

Happens when it is too obvious to the friends that you are a 'targeting' the girl and the friends don't instantly view you as a guy who's a good match for their friend.

If you think there's any risk of this at all, better to just open the group.

Make sure you are going in slightly higher energy than the group/person you're opening too.

You'll see the "friend pulls girl away" effect a lot when you try opening lower energy:

"Ew, that guy's a value sucker, let me get my friend away from him before he brings the mood down."

Match their energy, then go a bit above it, and that problem disappears.

Yes, need to work on winning the group over especially, usually with a wingman or two its much easier, as I don't have to engage the whole group to finally isolate the girl I like, in quieter venues, should be chill, but in a bar with blaring loud music, it's a bit harder.

Yes, I know.

Winning over groups in loud nightclubs is its own art form.

You need the right mix of positive energy + playfulness + nonverbal communication & eye contact.

Makes a big difference though.

Chase
 

Dark_Stallion

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 31, 2024
Messages
195
@Dark_Stallion,



What tanked it was saying you "want to do something" then backpedalling on it in an unsmooth way.

Tanked for a few reasons:

  1. Unless she has EARNED you "wanting to" kiss her, you are chasing. Frame tanks.
  2. If she balks and you then backpedal, she has fazed you. Frame tanks further.
  3. If you then repeat that, you are really shook. Frame tanks further still

The smoother way is to escalate to the kiss to the point where she is angling for the kiss herself and YOU are the one telling her, "Not here, not here," while leading her forward.

However, if you are trying to move fast and skip steps and not waste time with girls who aren't DTF and very into you early on, you can try bold moves -- but you should know how to retreat from them skillfully in that case if they flop.

Grand Master had a good way of doing this. He would make very sexual comments to women, then if they balked he would announce "Just kidding!" and laugh at them. Then keep doing that again and again until they did not balk, at which point he would not take it back and instead just escalated.

His GM style might be worth checking out for ideas:

Yeah for sure, will check that out, in a meet market bar venue with loud music and no dancing, I see it very hard to run much other sort of game, or any type of verbal game. It's hard to make anything other than a surface level connection, for example, in that scenario, the bar was only 70% full, and the girl and I had to talk in each other's ears just to hear each other, which does help create an intimate vibe, but it's hard to create a deep diving sort of connection.

Will give the GM article a look, can use this in college bars and younger bars with a more chaotic vibe, though this isn't my preferred type of nightgame venue.
I don't know if you could've pulled (other mistakes might have popped up; or, likely, the friend would've cockblocked), but she would've stayed in the set and hooked harder.

Girls you get complying significantly after overcoming negative compliance tend to hook in hard.
Something for me to try out next time then.
Happens when it is too obvious to the friends that you are a 'targeting' the girl and the friends don't instantly view you as a guy who's a good match for their friend.

If you think there's any risk of this at all, better to just open the group.

Make sure you are going in slightly higher energy than the group/person you're opening too.

You'll see the "friend pulls girl away" effect a lot when you try opening lower energy:

"Ew, that guy's a value sucker, let me get my friend away from him before he brings the mood down."

Match their energy, then go a bit above it, and that problem disappears.
Sometimes when I ask "hows your night going?" it admittedly does come off a bit lower energy, which did happen with the group where the girl got immediately pulled away.

Should try some group openers next time.
Yes, I know.

Winning over groups in loud nightclubs is its own art form.

You need the right mix of positive energy + playfulness + nonverbal communication & eye contact.

Makes a big difference though.

Chase
Yes, usually, my energy is positive, especially if I'm out with a friend, some of my openers are very playful (you stole my outfit), though I need to use group dynamics to tease them, especially the girl I'm interested in.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
6,130
Bar 3:

We got to this bar, and just started to chill for a bit. Approached some girls, none that receptive immediately.

Finally, wing and I approached 2 girls,

My opener was “you stole my outfit!” She played along, however she tried to get shots from me, to which I said no, not right now. I think I won the frame battle since she kept talking and complying, instead of running away or dismissing me. Called her a naught girl for trying to get shots out of me, which she denied(bad frame I know). Mostly kept teasing her, and asked her some questions in between, and ran the “let me see your hands routine” after asking her job, did good amount of kino, she was comfortable with me touching her hair and brushing it aside. Tbh I was being a bit over the top sexual with this one, I wanted to see how far I could push my limits. Imo this girl was super hot, 9/10 yesterday, tbh looking at her insta more like 8/10 today. At one point I said she “had to do something from the heart” and slightly poked her tit. Tbh she didn’t really react or call me out on it, was a quick movement, like half a second. Eventually, I said “I wanna do something right now, but it’s a bit too soon.” She picked up that I wanted to kiss her, and she said “it’s too soon” I repeated that’s literally what I said. I had to tell her that three times cuz she just didn’t hear me. Women sometimes. Eventually I insta closed with the (false) promise of an after party, and getting drinks another time, to which she seemed very receptive.

I ran into her later, and her friend was pulling her a bit from me, even though she was clearly comfortable with me, though the friend was trying to shoo me a bit when I first met them until my wing came in. Tbh I think the girl was a bit salty that I wasn’t giving her attention, and wanted her friend.

Maybe there’s a chance the girl I was talking to was slightly uncomfortable, but every time I did something sexual, she responded neutral or was receptive to me being sexual, seeming to like it, and the most important thing was, she was still staying there, not trying to create any distance between us.

Near the end, I met a 23 year old girl on her birthday, used the love island can I pull you line, ran some kino, when I went to grab her numbers she said she’s was married.

Any tips to work or improve on, also should I tone down the sexual actions, like with that one girl. She never seemed uncomfortable, so I think I can try it on other receptive girls.
I like your opener, i use a similar one "i was going to wear that tonight" but i likes yours better tbh, going to try it... Your kissing timing was off and uncalibrated, you need to get to the point were you get the girl to want to kiss you, no you initiating the kiss but she initiating the due to your sexual tension build up (i will link and article later).... You may have gotten cockblocked cause you messed up the kissing and she read the friend body language.... Most women if they read the first body language as comfortable enough, will not cockblock, also you can ask how you guys know each other? or what are your girls celebrating? both will give you intel when the friend is coming you say "hi i am darknight,i just met your friend brianna she is really cool" and she her hand... Do not go over the top sexual (low odds), learn one of the teevester style stuff that is short and sweet or proven... "trust and comfort" easy for beginners, or the 8 orgasms routine... or any of the ones you like he has a bunch.. practice one till you are comfortable, and then test one...

What is the love island line???? study this by @Glow :

Think of and learn to understand kissing as just a part of escalation and not consider it such as single key move of impact. Sixty, sleazy and the letter etc taught us that long time ago. The overemphasis on kissing is just popular belief and clumsy make-out types. As an example of what the community has taught us is that we can just reframe what kissing is through sexual nuance delivered eg verbally as eg. teevster has taught and showed us long time ago can be done with sex talk related doings. And there are many models for handling this.

You wanna Look at how you kiss - eg kiss to excite and arouse is different from all in makeouts, sensory kissing etc. if you kiss to arouse and swerve it in sexual frames and sensitivity to her the ASD will not happen. And there are ways to manage her past that point. Especially if you combine it with playfulness, use of silent space, proximity and other stimulators that smoothns it all up. This is just a majority as if shes already sexually activated you can use it differently.

To OP - best move for you is to look at micro escalation from MASF days - sixty years of challenge and try to understand the small points of micro escalation before the kiss. eg use of slowed down proximity to arouse. eg escalating the vibe and using silence etc.

Then expand your understanding of that to create moments and sensing where she is on the dates instead of caring too much about the kiss. all the moments we can make as part of escalatory doings. moments of deep bliss, moments of pure sexuality, moments of nostalgic romanticism etc. its on moments, discretion behaviours etc.

Moments and how you kiss can create a whole different experience of the kiss for her. The starting point is ofc where she is for how you engage. But the seductive challenge is to alter that initially if shes back heeling on it for whatever mental reasons.

Example: Just move close to her and oose and relax in closer proximity w her. Your bodies and the space will do the work. You can either do this w silence or as you stroll along something, more subtle. This creates a moment between you where she feels something. playfully pushing her will too. aligning your face after she speaks and holding the silence for a few secs will too. leading her around the place a bit behind her, hand on her waist will too. maybe a more firm look or presence to emphasise a more dominant or purposeful vibe. Appreciating something she does explicitly is a sensual-affectionate smoothner too etc etc. each forms soft points or moments that enables your moves. This all happens in with other things you do as you interact but provide the escalatory layer and momentum between you. Sixty outlines a simple model thats good for learning this.

Also consider her state - if shes sexually aroused and has hit a carefree mood its no prob. the date setup should be adjusted to provide a frame that stimulates the right thing eg sexuality and wildness instead of oldscool courtship etc. Ofc. this needs to b related to her and her starting point for things. but take charge of these things smartly. Work it. Know your influence.



 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
6,130
UPDATE: The girl who I went sexually over the top, she just unfollowed me on instagram after not responding to my icebreaker text, idk if she was faking interest yesterday(hopefully not) or she woke up this morning feeling different(I can live with that tbh)
try to text right there, next time, in front of her...

so you go let me give you my number, she will give you the phone, and text yourself right there from her phone.- "who is that good looking guy you are talking to"

and then you text back your name.. right then and there (using her phone)

 

Dark_Stallion

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 31, 2024
Messages
195
I like your opener, i use a similar one "i was going to wear that tonight" but i likes yours better tbh, going to try it... Your kissing timing was off and uncalibrated, you need to get to the point were you get the girl to want to kiss you, no you initiating the kiss but she initiating the due to your sexual tension build up (i will link and article later).... You may have gotten cockblocked cause you messed up the kissing and she read the friend body language.... Most women if they read the first body language as comfortable enough, will not cockblock, also you can ask how you guys know each other? or what are your girls celebrating? both will give you intel when the friend is coming you say "hi i am darknight,i just met your friend brianna she is really cool" and she her hand... Do not go over the top sexual (low odds), learn one of the teevester style stuff that is short and sweet or proven... "trust and comfort" easy for beginners, or the 8 orgasms routine... or any of the ones you like he has a bunch.. practice one till you are comfortable, and then test one...
Thanks on the opener! I started by saying "I was going to wear that tonight" just decided to take it an extra step further, automatically sets a playful frame, as long as someone who isn't a soyboy uses it, or the girl has no personality, should work to great effect.

Hmm, maybe I can mention the idea of a kiss in a way where she chases, such as "you look like you want to kiss me" even if she says no it still works for me, I can try using a simpler teevester routine, the problem is in this venue specifically, it's hard to hear the other person, and there's no dance floor to escalate on, it's just a really loud bar, not my preferred nightgame venue tbh.

Next time I will try a very simple teevester routine, and use more chase frames to bring up the kiss.
What is the love island line???? study this by @Glow :





Will take a look at these articles, thanks for the info Skills!
 

Dark_Stallion

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 31, 2024
Messages
195
try to text right there, next time, in front of her...

so you go let me give you my number, she will give you the phone, and text yourself right there from her phone.- "who is that good looking guy you are talking to"

and then you text back your name.. right then and there (using her phone)

Yeah I keep forgetting to use this tactic, I feel like "let me give you my number" rather than "let me take your number" leads to higher number close odds, even when followed up by the date ask, then you can just text yourself something funny, and you have her number.

Next time I have to use this though.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
6,130
Yeah I keep forgetting to use this tactic, I feel like "let me give you my number" rather than "let me take your number" leads to higher number close odds, even when followed up by the date ask, then you can just text yourself something funny, and you have her number.

Next time I have to use this though.
Also field test if social media snap and make it private vs insta... If your Instagram no pimp is a dlv
 

Dark_Stallion

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 31, 2024
Messages
195
Also field test if social media snap and make it private vs insta... If your Instagram no pimp is a dlv
Yeah I give out my instagram a decent bunch, tbh I don't really use snapchat, always found it a bit weird and gay, not my thing, instagram though my profile is public with a few decent posts, good enough profile to get accepted into an exclusive dating app that only accepts 8% of people, although I refuse to pay for a membership

Can you explain by no pimp? And how that relates with a dlv?
 
Top