Low vs High Body Count - What's Ideal? cont.

[Spike]

Me personally NO

The point

 

[Teevster]

women are valued for their Chasity (why a low body count (that should not be taken in isolation) is one of the 3 factors of a high quality girl) and men for their experience. I know this. Most people in this space know this.

Yes, women are valued for chastity in certain circles and cultures. The reasoning behind this chastity is grounded in historical logics, that one may argue is outdated. Yet, the discussion was not about whether or not chastity is valued by certain men in certain circles.

And a subjectively valued traits cannot be categorised as an objective factor, especially when dealing with something relative. Heck even I was careful to not make this mistake.

Most people in this space know this.

Weasel phrase, most men in this space (the community?) do not know this. Prudishness and chastity habr never been valued in this community, at least not historically. This is a fact.

But then you commit the “if X is true then Y is true” logical fallacy. When you say most girls who claim are low body count are lying. Which is not true. That does not mean that girls do not lie about their body count. Just that most do not.

Well, again, there has been quite a few surveys on this, where women have naturally lied down their body count. This also matches the experience with most experienced seducers, who deal with a prude, who at the end of the night turned out to have done gangbangs.

You know, not an uncommon experience.

And yes, I have also experienced women lying up their body count to qualify to certain males. But since you like to refer to statistical outliers, there you have one.

Got it. Because she isn’t loose with her pussy then there must be something wrong with her mentally.

Strawman. Reread what I wrote, as it couldn't be clearer.

Very high body count women are seldom completely mentally stable. However, I am aware of this. If I want a long-term girlfriend who is stable, I believe the best option is a woman with a body count around the median for her age (plus or minus).

Then there are zero girls that have 1 or 5 partners in their 40s and 50s.. And if she claims to have 1 or 5 lifetime partners then she is lying. Also she is mentally insane because she didnt sleep around

Reread what I wrote. I was pretty explicit.

For clarification, when I refer to a low body count, I specifically mean a body count that falls below the age-adjusted mean or median. This should not be mixed up with a “normal body count” or simply the absence of a high body count.

There is no point in debating if one resorts to strawmen.

Summary: abnormal body counts - whether low or low high (relative to the age-adjusted median) are likely to be the cause of, be caused by, or enchance mental instability.

-Teevster

 

[TomInHo]

The point

Then how do you explain other men wifing up and getting women pregnant that I thought were too mentally unstable/disagreeable/promiscuous for me?

I have had ex FBs with those qualities that were able to land a man

Last year I even had an FB that got married and made her relationship open. She fucks other men while he watches

I met her husband and she is a perfect 10 to him. Not all men will accept her terms but she obviously found a man that did just because she was hot enough to him

 

[Teevster]

Mentally unstable/disagreeable/promiscuous etc etc.

my question, what is more importance - low body count/chastity, or mental stability?

Low body count + high likelihood of mental instability?

or...

Normal body count + high likelihood of mental stability?

Some clarifications on this would help me understand things better as it is very unclear based on your responses.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

- low body count.
The large majority of men absolutely do not want high body counts

There is a huge difference between what men say they want, and what they really want in many cases. Look at the most trendy fetishes and porn searches. Men these days go nuts on sexualized women (ref "simping"). Always have, always will, just look at how men fight for high body count women, even though those same men would publicly preach for "chastity".

And these days we see an increase of weird worship of sexualized women, while at the same time as we see a return of patriarchal attitudes (which I do not mind - in fact the more patriarchal and judgemental a society becomes, the better my game works!).

There is of course a lot of M/W complex at play.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

Hi Teev (@Teevster)

Do you have any reference regarding what numbers we would be thinking of in that case?

Regards!

I usually do not get too hung up on this - I only think about it when dealing with women in their mid 20s with abnormal body counts - whether it is far below the norm, or far above the norm at her age.

You can of course do google search on the sex partner median for women at X age. But I have better things to do.

-Teevster

 

[Spike]

Prudishness and chastity habr never been valued in this community, at least not historically. This is a fact.

For serious long term relationships? Yes

exhibit A

Low body count (1 or 2 max, ideally from relationships )

Exhibit B

- low body count.
The large majority of men absolutely do not want high body counts

And I know there are more men who hold similar views that do not to participate in this discussion.

Strawman

Nope. I was responding to this

There is still a correlation between low body count and mental health problems.

what is a normal body count for an 18-20 year of girl?

I looked it up on google and this was the result (and I know self reported surveys are unreliable. But this is what the survey said). So if you disagree with the study then please provide what is in your opinion a normal body count for a 18-20 year old gi

A 2014 study2 of CDC data from 2006 to 2010 found these numbers:

• Ages 15-19: 72% of women and 71% of men had had 0-1 partners, and 17% of women and 17% of men had had 2-4 partners.
• Ages 20-24: Among women, 35% had had 0-1 partner, 29% had had 2-4 partners, 23% had had 5-9 partners, and 13% had had 10+ partners. Among men, 32% had had 0-1 partner, 25% had had 2-4 partners, 20% had had 5-9 partners, and 22% had had 10+ partners
  

Seems it is actually quite normal for an 18-20 year old girl to have a low body count. All you gotta do is screen for the other traits. Hotness of the girl, mental stability, trauma and all that

 

[Teevster]

Seems it is actually quite normal for an 18-20 year old girl to have a low body count.

It shares a category with 15-year-olds. But yes, younger girls will generally have a lower body count than women over 25.

Personally, I find the median more interesting than the mean, since the mean is easily skewed by outliers.

Anyway, I’m not quite sure where you're going with this.

Edit: I also never denied that many men look for purity and chastity - heck, I’ve even used gambits based on that (in fact, many!). I mentioned it myself earlier in this thread, in my first reply. So that’s not up for debate.

What I originally questioned was why you, as a seasoned guy in this art, would prioritize low body counts. Your reply sparked a discussion on whether women with low body counts are more mentally stable or of better character.

I still maintain that they are not.

---

And yes, historically, the community never valued prudishness or sex-negativity - just like at the most sold product - the blueprint decoded with Tyler spewing "sex is no big deal". That has changed a bit in recent years - I admit - with YouTubers and the manosphere pushing a lot of noise. But honestly, I don’t care much about that. I still identify with the old-school values of the community.

In fact, I think the "secret society" theory is more relevant now than ever.

The reason prudishness and similar attitudes were never valued is because we knew the truth. We had “seen the matrix,” so to speak. We knew miss good girl may secretly participate in gangbangs, or may do so in the future (metaphorically speaking).

That newer voices in the manosphere haven’t seen it? Not really my concern. I am not here to preach the gospel to the broader public.

Just to reiterate - I’m not some activist for sexual liberation. If guys want to promote or enforce stricter sexual morality, I’m all for it. It’ll actually make things easier, because it breathes new life into the good old pick-up material.


-Teevster

 

[Spike]

Anyway, I’m not quite sure where you're going with this.

We’re trying to differentiate low body count (associated with mental illnesses according to you and your 1800s study) and normal body count. I’ll ask again since you ignored the question. What is a normal body count for an 18-20 year old girl?

Just to reiterate - I’m not some activist for sexual liberation

you obviously value sluts. So this whole discussion is your attempt to frame girls with strong impulse control as liars (if she says shes only been with 2 guys. She’s lying), as girls who don’t exist (she secretly participates in gangbangs with secret society members), or mentally unstable (your 1800s study) and anyone who disagrees has a strong case of Madonna whore complex

 

[StrayDog]

It’ll actually make things easier, because it breathes new life into the good old pick-up material.

wait how exactly does enforcing stricter sexual morality make it easier?

 

[Teevster]

I’ll ask again since you ignored the question. What is a normal body count for an 18-20 year old girl?

18–20 is a young age group with generally low body counts. It’s a very limited demographic. Most women are not in that age range. Also, it was you who introduced the 18–20 variable—it wasn’t part of the original discussion.

But since you insist:

The normal body count for that age—based on rough estimates from multiple surveys—is around 4 in Western countries. It might actually be higher, considering the well-documented tendency for women to underreport their number of sexual partners.

That said, I’m willing to accept 4 as a reasonable estimate for the average in that age group.

We’re trying to differentiate low body count (associated with mental illnesses according to you and your 1800s study) and normal body count.

I never referred to a 1800s study. Strawman again.

you obviously value sluts. So this whole discussion is your attempt to frame girls with strong impulse control as liars (if she says shes only been with 2 guys. She’s lying), as girls who don’t exist (she secretly participates in gangbangs with secret society members), or mentally unstable (your 1800s study) and anyone who disagrees has a strong case of Madonna whore complex

What the fuck did I just read.
Edit: I will refer to my previous comments and let them speak for themselves. I will not repeat myself in response to this odd construct, which is based on a decontextualization and misrepresentation of my words.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

wait how exactly does enforcing stricter sexual morality make it easier?

Because it contributes to a more sexually conservative social culture - more repression, more secrecy, more restrictions.

And then you come in with the old-school sex talk gambits, framing things with low-key vibes, sexual liberty, non-judgmentalism… and bam—you’re in.

This was my material back in the 2000s. It still works, but like @Skills and others have pointed out, it’s lost a bit of its firepower with the rise of sexual liberalism in the 2010s. That said, if we see a pendulum shift, there’s definitely an opportunity to capitalize on it.

In fact, I missed the good old days so much that during my last 6 months in France, I was frequenting venues with a higher population of muslim girls ("more conservative") - because I could finally reuse some good old gambits at their full power.

-Teevster

 

[TomInHo]

wait how exactly does enforcing stricter sexual morality make it easier?

Because when society becomes more conservative it doesn’t change that women are still sexual

So when they meet a man that has more non judgmental attitudes towards sex it makes him more rare

And if he is able to make women feel they can explore their repressed sexual desires with him without fear of judgment or reputation loss it makes sex with him more appealing

If he is still attractive to her ofc

 

[Prodigy]

We’re trying to differentiate low body count (associated with mental illnesses according to you and your 1800s study) and normal body count. I’ll ask again since you ignored the question. What is a normal body count for an 18-20 year old girl?

you obviously value sluts. So this whole discussion is your attempt to frame girls with strong impulse control as liars (if she says shes only been with 2 guys. She’s lying), as girls who don’t exist (she secretly participates in gangbangs with secret society members), or mentally unstable (your 1800s study) and anyone who disagrees has a strong case of Madonna whore complex

so how do you determine what makes a girl a slut spike ?body count ?how many bodies must she have to be considered one ?just curious

 

[Spike]

I never referred to a 1800s study. Strawman again.

There is still a correlation between low body count and mental health problems. I mean this has been studied since the 1800

I’m willing to accept 4 as a reasonable estimate for the average in that age group.

Great so if establish that it’s actually quite normal for an 18-20 year old to have a low lay count. Does that still mean she’s mentally unstable ala 1800s study regarding the correlation? Rhetorical question.

What the fuck did I just read.

Just listed everything you said about low lay count girls in the 3 pages of this discussion

 

[Skills]

18–20 is a young age group with generally low body counts. It’s a very limited demographic. Most women are not in that age range. Also, it was you who introduced the 18–20 variable—it wasn’t part of the original discussion.

But since you insist:

The normal body count for that age—based on rough estimates from multiple surveys—is around 4 in Western countries. It might actually be higher, considering the well-documented tendency for women to underreport their number of sexual partners.

That said, I’m willing to accept 4 as a reasonable estimate for the average in that age group.



I never referred to a 1800s study. Strawman again.



What the fuck did I just read.
Edit: I will refer to my previous comments and let them speak for themselves. I will not repeat myself in response to this odd construct, which is based on a decontextualization and misrepresentation of my words.

-Teevster

Lol i told you

 

[Skills]

so how do you determine what makes a girl a slut spike ?body count ?how many bodies must she have to be considered one ?just curious

Long-Term - My hoc theory (history of cheating theory) and why is so important to me...

I made a post on how to properly go into an ltr (though nobody really follows the advice a waste of my time)....Dating a guy like me is pretty much BRUTAL..... It is tough to be in a relationship with a dude that breath, eats and shit seduction.... My life is pretty much seduction, I go...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Teevster]

Great so if establish that it’s actually quite normal for an 18-20 year old to have a low lay count.

If you limit the discussion to a younger subgroup, then since the women are still young - and therefore unlikely to have had the time to significantly increase their body count - body count wouldn’t be a useful indicator of mental health, unless we're talking about an extremely high number sex partners.

But is not that obvious?

Now back on topic? To me it seems you changed the question from "women" to "women in the age-group 18-20 (15-19)" because you felt it would assist you in your hunt for confirmation bias.

Also, I still never made any reference to any 1800s study. There is a huge difference between referring to a 1800s study, and mentioning that something has been studied since the 1800. Jesus.

Just listed everything you said about low lay count girls in the 3 pages of this discussion

Abnormal lay counts, whether low or high, is correlated with mental issues. What's controversial about this?

And how does this refer to "slut-loving"? You seem to chose to leave out the part where I talk about high body count women because it suits your narrative.

I mean, are we really going to discuss that water is wet here. Sexual supression, self-shaming, etc is known to be a negative factor on mental health - including neuroticism.

We also know that promiscuous behaviour is often linked with borderline personality disorder, (hypo)mania (in the case of bipolar disorder) etc...

I don't see the controversy here.

-Teevster

 

[Spike]

I still never made any reference to any 1800s study. There is a huge difference between referring to a 1800s study, and mentioning that something has been studied since the 1800.

And what you said has been studied since the 1800s says that there is a correlation between low body count and mental health problems.

Abnormal lay counts, whether low or high, is correlated with mental issues. What's controversial about this?

So a girl in her 30s that has been in 2 monogamous relationships (body count = 2). Married and lost her virginity to someone she met in university. Then broke up after 15 years together. Then got into a monogamous relationship with a new guy, mentally ill because her body count is low for girls her age?

how does this refer to "slut-loving"

You talked about your love for sluts on the first page of that thread

Others, like myself, tend to appreciate strong, independent women who embrace their sexuality and live authentically

You seem to chose to leave out the part where I talk about high body count women because it suits your narrative

Because we already know high body count women are mentally ill

Yet I must admit that these high body count women are rarely fully sane or stable

We also know that promiscuous behaviour is often linked with borderline personality disorder, (hypo)mania (in the case of bipolar disorder) etc...

You started this discussion by asking me why I value girls with low body counts. That’s why I leave out girls with high body counts. Not because it suits my narrative. But because that’s not a trait of a high quality girl.

 

[James D]

So a girl in her 30s that has been in 2 monogamous relationships (body count = 2). Married and lost her virginity to someone she met in university. Then broke up after 15 years together. Then got into a monogamous relationship with a new guy, mentally ill because her body count is low for girls her age?

Point