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To be fair re: the woman in an LTR, I think we're talking single women (or frigid with a dead bedroom). The low body count neuroticism is probably more the extended celibacy than the actual body count.
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Just skimmed the thread.
There’s a lot of generalizing followed by mischaracterizations of others’ generalizations.
Holy generalizations, Batman!
ARE HIGH BODY COUNT OR LOW BODY COUNT WOMEN CRAZIER?
Here are some important points IMO:
Example of a high body count woman who is disordered:
A girl with borderline personality disorder who jumps from man to man to man. She can’t hold down a job and her friendships and relationships are like revolving doors laced with TNT.
Example of a high body count woman who is not disordered:
A high-testosterone girl who is naturally high in sensation seeking. She holds down a stable job and has healthy friendships; however, she simply just LOVES cock!
Example of a low body count woman who is disordered:
Anal-retentive paranoid girl who finds sex icky and fears the feeling of losing control she has around sex. To her, sex is something to be avoided as much as possible, and rigidly controlled when not able to be avoided.
Example of a low body count woman who is not disordered:
A girl with an average sex drive who has not undergone a sexual awakening and never got into party/hookup culture. She’s had a couple of boyfriends but both were middling in bed. For her, sex is kind of nice but not really something to get too excited about; she’s yet to have a great sexual experience or unlock any orgasms other than clitoral.
BUT ARE MORE HIGH OR LOW BODY COUNT DISORDERED?
Is the % of very high count women who are disordered higher than the % of very low count women who are disordered? I don’t know. I’m not certain anyone’s done that research. But also, does it matter?
Let’s say we have two guys vetting for a long-term girlfriend / potential future wife.
Assuming that both Guy A and Guy B have abundance with women and the ability to vet, is there any reason Guy A would choose to marry a disordered low count girl, instead of rejecting her and finding a sane low count girl, or that Guy B would choose to marry a disordered high count girl, instead of rejecting her and finding a sane high count girl?
Neither of these is likely.
Either a man has abundance, in which case he is not going to accept a woman who has traits that are major handicaps for him, or he does not have abundance, in which case he’ll take anything (then justify it to himself).
If we are talking anything other than marriage / committed relationships, then body count is irrelevant, except as a fetish thing: “Man, I love taking girls’ virginity!” vs. “Nothing better than a girl who can work her pussy like a third hand.” (body count also has some importance in assessing STD risks)
AVERAGE PARTNER COUNT NUMBERS
Also, since everyone is talking statistics here, we ran a poll of American women in December 2022.
Here are the stats (for women who are straight, bi, pansexual, or demisexual; left out the lesbians, asexuals, etc.):
Our poll was an anonymous self-report. One study found that:
So if you want to run the numbers from our stats through the “What would it be if it was a lie detector instead of an anonymous report?” just bump the numbers up +29% (which is the difference between anonymous self-reports and lie detectors).
(why are the average numbers a bit different in the university paper vs. our poll? Probably because the university sampled women enrolled in an Introductory Psychology course in 2003, where ours was a national survey in 2022. College girls have more sex, and people were having more sex in 2003 than they have been in recent years, and if my experience counts for anything girls who take psychology tend to have more sex as well
)
…
So there ya go.
Now it’s not just opinions anymore
Ciao,
Chase
There’s a lot of generalizing followed by mischaracterizations of others’ generalizations.
Holy generalizations, Batman!
ARE HIGH BODY COUNT OR LOW BODY COUNT WOMEN CRAZIER?
Here are some important points IMO:
- Some women with high body counts are disordered.
- Not all women with high body counts are disordered.
- Some women with low body counts are disordered.
- Not all women with high body counts are disordered.
Example of a high body count woman who is disordered:
A girl with borderline personality disorder who jumps from man to man to man. She can’t hold down a job and her friendships and relationships are like revolving doors laced with TNT.
Example of a high body count woman who is not disordered:
A high-testosterone girl who is naturally high in sensation seeking. She holds down a stable job and has healthy friendships; however, she simply just LOVES cock!
Example of a low body count woman who is disordered:
Anal-retentive paranoid girl who finds sex icky and fears the feeling of losing control she has around sex. To her, sex is something to be avoided as much as possible, and rigidly controlled when not able to be avoided.
Example of a low body count woman who is not disordered:
A girl with an average sex drive who has not undergone a sexual awakening and never got into party/hookup culture. She’s had a couple of boyfriends but both were middling in bed. For her, sex is kind of nice but not really something to get too excited about; she’s yet to have a great sexual experience or unlock any orgasms other than clitoral.
BUT ARE MORE HIGH OR LOW BODY COUNT DISORDERED?
Is the % of very high count women who are disordered higher than the % of very low count women who are disordered? I don’t know. I’m not certain anyone’s done that research. But also, does it matter?
Let’s say we have two guys vetting for a long-term girlfriend / potential future wife.
- Guy A strongly prefers to marry a low count wife. He prefers lower risks of infidelity/divorce and a higher certainty of paternity for his future offspring. An average, ordinary sex life is fine for him.
- Guy B strongly prefers to marry a high count wife. He prefers a very active, open sex life and a “live and let live” attitude toward extramarital sex. He is not overly concerned about divorce or paternity.
Assuming that both Guy A and Guy B have abundance with women and the ability to vet, is there any reason Guy A would choose to marry a disordered low count girl, instead of rejecting her and finding a sane low count girl, or that Guy B would choose to marry a disordered high count girl, instead of rejecting her and finding a sane high count girl?
Neither of these is likely.
Either a man has abundance, in which case he is not going to accept a woman who has traits that are major handicaps for him, or he does not have abundance, in which case he’ll take anything (then justify it to himself).
If we are talking anything other than marriage / committed relationships, then body count is irrelevant, except as a fetish thing: “Man, I love taking girls’ virginity!” vs. “Nothing better than a girl who can work her pussy like a third hand.” (body count also has some importance in assessing STD risks)
AVERAGE PARTNER COUNT NUMBERS
Also, since everyone is talking statistics here, we ran a poll of American women in December 2022.
Here are the stats (for women who are straight, bi, pansexual, or demisexual; left out the lesbians, asexuals, etc.):
- 18-20 y/o:
- Mean partner count: 2.
- Median partner count: 1.
- 62% have 1 or fewer.
- 24% have 2-3.
- 8% have 4-5.
- One girl said 8 and another girl said 24.
- 25 y/o:
- Mean partner count: 3.3.
- Median partner count: 1.
- 53% have 1 or fewer.
- 25% have 2-3.
- 9% have 4-7.
- 6% have 10+.
- Of the high rankers, two girls had 10, two had 25, two had 26, two had 27, one had 28, one had 39, one had 42, and one had 50.
Our poll was an anonymous self-report. One study found that:
- College women asked face-to-face reported their body counts as 2.6 (men said 3.7)
- College women asked in anonymous self reports claimed 3.4 bodies (men said 4.2)
- College women hooked up to lie detectors claimed 4.4 bodies (men said 4.0)
So if you want to run the numbers from our stats through the “What would it be if it was a lie detector instead of an anonymous report?” just bump the numbers up +29% (which is the difference between anonymous self-reports and lie detectors).
(why are the average numbers a bit different in the university paper vs. our poll? Probably because the university sampled women enrolled in an Introductory Psychology course in 2003, where ours was a national survey in 2022. College girls have more sex, and people were having more sex in 2003 than they have been in recent years, and if my experience counts for anything girls who take psychology tend to have more sex as well
)…
So there ya go.
Now it’s not just opinions anymore
Ciao,
Chase
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To be clear, my main idea is that strong sexual restrictions - whether someone puts them on themselves or they’re imposed by others - can often lead to emotional or psychological issues. This idea goes back to early Austrian psychologists like Freud, but it was especially developed by Wilhelm Reich. Reich took it further by looking at how society and culture shape sexual behavior. His books, like The Sexual Revolution, really opened my eyes and are still worth reading today.
Reich argued that strict sexual rules (what he called "sex morality") are often linked with emotional problems and trouble building a healthy sex life. While a lot of his work has been debated over the years, this particular point has held up and has even been explored in later research.
Now, just to be clear: I’m not saying that every woman with a low number of sexual partners has emotional issues. But I am saying that having a low “body count” isn’t automatically a sign that someone is emotionally stable or well-adjusted. In some cases, it might be the result of deep personal restrictions, shame, or anxiety - things that can show up in other areas of life too.
On the flip side, I don’t think a high body count automatically means someone is emotionally stable either. In fact, it can sometimes be a sign of instability or emotional struggles. That said, women with more sexual experience are often more open, confident, and fun when it comes to sex. From what I’ve seen - and this matches Reich’s clinical experience - some of the most emotionally intense or unpredictable women I’ve met were those who had imposed strict limits on themselves in the past.
So my point is: we shouldn't assume that a low number of partners automatically equals “stable” or “good,” just like we shouldn't assume that a high number equals “bad” or “damaged.” It’s more complicated than that, and we need to look deeper than just the numbers.
And of course... here was my initial question:
To which you answered:
And it’s this specific point that I’m struggling to accept - the idea that a low body count is a reliable indicator of mental stability. That’s what led me to engage in this debate. I’m not claiming that women with higher body counts are more stable, nor am I saying that all women with low body counts are necessarily unstable. My point is simply that low body count, in itself, is not a strong or consistent indicator of mental stability. If someone prefers women with lower body counts for personal reasons, that’s entirely valid - I'm not arguing against that.
Again here we are adding another variable - just like age. So we are changing the scope of the discussion. Some should look into the definition of "all else being equal". Because so far, this feels like discussing with "Harvard" BigPapa, the grandmaster of statistics and methdology.
Or as @KJ Francis puts it:
That said, my view on women in their 30s who’ve only had two sexual partners - even if that’s due to external factors like long-term relationships - is that they’re probably not the best bet as a girlfriend. This isn’t necessarily due to mental instability, but rather because such women are often at risk of showing signs of arrested development. They may feel the need to “catch up” on missed experiences and could behave similarly to a 21-year-old who is “discovering herself” (which, in practice, often means going on a full-on hookup spree).
So in reality, this is a pretty bad example. I’m not sure you would seriously advise a man to commit to a 30-year-old woman with just two past partners without some caution - I know I certainly wouldn’t.
I did not call them sluts. You were the one attributing this normatively loaded term.
But it is not.
-Teevster
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Great situationship material. Not someone I’d want to settle down with. And be in a serious long term relationship with. Disordered or not.
Correct.
from the first page of this thread
Of course. If you don’t mind your wife getting slutted out by guys on the side like Adam22, then screening for high count girls would make sense.
Correct. Yet another reason why high body count girls are low value.
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It’s not. And was never my argument. You keep isolating the 3 variables of the equation which allows you to nitpick any one of them (you choose to nitpick body count). By itself, none of the 3 traits I listed are a sign of a high quality girl.
- A girl is hot? That’s not automatically a sign that that girl is high quality.
- A girl with high social status? That’s not automatically a sign that that girl is high quality
- A girl with a low body count? That’s not automatically a sign that that girl is high quality.
But when put them all together you have
A girl who values her looks and takes care of her appearance. A girl who has an active social life. Is friends with people in the right crowd (doesn’t hang out with drug dealers or friends that hook up with a bunch of strangers). And has strong impulse control. Because she knows her worth (high self esteem) and doesn’t need to hook up with strangers because she doesn’t need that validation
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This low or high value count valuing women as high quality due to low body count as i said is useless and will just backfire.... Just like red pillers project misogyny in the subcom... You will tend to project this views unconsciously... Which will make the women during sex deep dives adjust... But what do i know...
Useless conversations tbh...
Useless conversations tbh...
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I isolated one variable, which was "low-body count". Reread the thread.
And no, low body count is not a good indicator for mental stability - nor impulse control. You still have not presented a single argument against this. Instead you derail with new variables. I am not here to do kitchen sink-regressions.
I did not discuss any of these in this thread.
---
Low body count is not a good indicator for stability. It is mostly a personal preference, often grounded in normative/cultural/religious beliefs. There is no instrumental reasons to prefer a low body count woman (with the variable isolated - all else being equal) to one with a normal body count - especially not in this day and age where STDs can be easily mitigated and treated and paternity tests can be easily deployed.
I maintain that. And that's all I have maintained throughout this thread.
-Teevster
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The PUA has spoken.
Meanwhile, the redpillers can mentally masturbate to their "low-body count girl" while we do her dirty
-Teevster
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Yes tbh as a natural pre community i totally had Madonna whore ruined tons of relationships... You told me in the mpua forum chat that your favorite article was the tyler durden ss of sex and your post 2.0 on it... night and day the quality of relationships changes...The PUA has spoken.
Meanwhile, the redpillers can mentally masturbate to their "low-body count girl" while we do her dirty
-Teevster
I adore this thread.
Hypothetical situation:
16 year old human:
low body count: 1
normal body count: 2
high body count: 3
66 year old human:
low body count: 4
normal body count: 9
high body count: 21
= low body count can be 1 or 4 !
Person A says: low body count is not a sign of mental stabilty, but a normal body count might be!
High, low or normal body count is relative, it's dependent on age (and also ethnicity).
Person B thinks: low body count is measured in absolute numbers, not in relative terms.
Person A re-iterates, person B re-misinterprets.
As you were, gentlemen!
Hypothetical situation:
16 year old human:
low body count: 1
normal body count: 2
high body count: 3
66 year old human:
low body count: 4
normal body count: 9
high body count: 21
= low body count can be 1 or 4 !
Person A says: low body count is not a sign of mental stabilty, but a normal body count might be!
High, low or normal body count is relative, it's dependent on age (and also ethnicity).
Person B thinks: low body count is measured in absolute numbers, not in relative terms.
Person A re-iterates, person B re-misinterprets.
As you were, gentlemen!
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I know
I know. All you did is nitpick one variable. When I have maintained that they should not be isolated. But taken as a whole.
Keep repeating myself but you just don’t get it
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I took an 18 year olds virginity not too long ago. Has nothing to do with anythingMeanwhile, the redpillers can mentally masturbate to their "low-body count girl" while we do her dirty
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And maybe in 7 years she turned out to be(come) a high body count girl
You just happened to fetch her before she had the time to rack up the numbers
.-Teevster
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YesAnd maybe in 7 years she turned out to be(come) a high body count girl
You just happened to fetch her before she had the time to rack up the numbers
-Teevster
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Correct. That is 100% a strong possibility. Even full blown out whores where at one point virgins. Again nothing to do with anythingAnd maybe in 7 years she turned out to be(come) a high body count girl
You just happened to fetch her before she had the time to rack up the numbers
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Again, we come back to where we started: low body count is a terrible predictor accross all age-groups.
-Teevster
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If you isolate body count as a variable on its own without any other context. You are correct.
I did not respond to the “what is high value” thread with high value = low body count
I said
