LR LR: Blonde in a microskirt

[topcat]

On this. Something I’ve noticed is that when a girl is with her circle of friends. More often than not it’s the girl who isn’t facing me, that is the one that is attracted to me. Kind of like telling her friends to check for her what im doing. Because she doesn’t want to be obvious

That’s an interesting observation. Not sure what to make of it tbh.

 

[Ragnar]

Online dating


That’s how I interpreted it yes. And tested it further by asking for investment in various ways.


Correct. On the day I met them.

that's super impressive to me--especially since it was the first day you met them. because when you meet a woman for the first time, they obviously don't know you. you're basically a stranger to them. and if they're going home with you or to a hotel or wherever--it can be pretty dangerous for them. but I suppose you're just really good at this stuff

I once asked a girl out to lunch in A PUBLIC LIBRARY and it somehow "made her uncomfortable". so, you can see why i'm so impressed that you can consistently have sex with girls on the first date

 

[topcat]

I once asked a girl out to lunch in A PUBLIC LIBRARY and it somehow "made her uncomfortable".

The key fix for this is to make a girl feel like doing something with you before you ask.

Want to ask a girl to sit beside you? Make her feel comfortable with you before you ask.

Want to have sex with a girl? Get her horny and wanting sex with YOU before you go for it.

Want a girl to join you on a date? Get her intrigued by you and wanting to know more.

When you do this your ask is no longer something she has to stop and logically consider; instead it becomes serendipity.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

This is a very interesting report, shows how to give space while moving things forward and without chasing.

I feel this is something I lack in my game a lot too, since I am generally trying to jump into every opportunity to escalate the interaction, either by isolating, pulling or making a physical move. So I’d probably lose the girl in this scenario either by trying to monopolise her time too early, or insisting too much on going somewhere else/pulling her home.

If I understand correctly during all these moments of pulling away or literally leaving after walking her home you were totally ready to lose her without caring about it too much.

This is something I can understand and I am fine with, I generally don’t care that much about having sex with any particular girl. I’ve simply felt that my best chance to generally have results is not to let it in her hands, because it rarely leads anywhere for me.

Based on your experience, at what point the girl decides to make a clear move on you? I mean I get the general having fun, flirting and increasing compliance, but how does she decide she will take it in her hands and not just autoreject because you are not escalating when the window is open.

I feel if I try to go about it like this

These days I approach women, seductions, and dates with the attitude to see what happens.
I’ve told this to @DoWhatWorks on a call we had last year, but when I meet women now my only goal is to show up & flirt. It’s weird, but since carrying this attitude, without fail, the women have escalated on me and moved things forward before I was caught up to them. Of the past 19 dates I’ve had, I’ve closed 18 the day I met her with them pressing things forward. Less is now much more.

in my dates, I will just end up with girls enjoying my company but things not going anywhere, leaving them frustrated, and thinking they liked me but I never made a move.

 

[topcat]

but how does she decide she will take it in her hands and not just autoreject because you are not escalating when the window is open.

This is why it’s IMPERATIVE to reward every little sign of investment she gives you. This gives her confidence that any move she makes towards you, any sign of interest or investment in the seduction will be rewarded by you and responded to. This recognition is subconscious.

Whether it be her hovering by you, flicking her hair in your direction, turning towards you in conversation. Following you. Touching your arm. Asking you a question. YOU MUST RECOGNIZE THIS AND REWARD HER.

It’s how she can rationalize that you like her and will move things along with her. It encourages her to signal you more and and move things along herself.

Then you move things along by making a compliance ask (escalating the interaction) all the way to the bedroom.

It’s a bunch of micro asks, and responses (“do you like me” “yes i do” “good, here’s how i like you [move things along]”….”do you still like me?” “yes i do” “good, here’s..”). With every micro escalation moving you guys closer to a mutually pleasurable experience and inevitably sex.

Just keep moving things towards the bedroom, but only as a reward for her investment in the interaction, that you ask for.

Every reward you give is in proportion to and a reflection of the size and tone of the investment she gives you. Whether you asked for it or she auto invested.

Failing to reward investment in my system is akin to telling her “i don’t like what you did there/i don’t like you stop doing it”.

Since i started following this system religiously I avoid auto rejection, never come off low value and last minute resistance is something i’ve seen once in over a year (over 20 girls fucked in that period).

Make sense?

 

[empath]

100

This is basically trained up from me losing many an fb to auto rejection. It’s something I’ve had to force myself to calibrate to and has resulted in me keeping concurrent fb’s for over a year.

1 year? what if/when they bring relationship talk?

also, have you posted somewhere in detail about your process to track and reward investment?

 

[topcat]

also, have you posted somewhere in detail about your process to track and reward investment?

I haven’t, I’m lazy and selfish. I’m breaking down my system here for selfish reasons also.

1 year? what if/when they bring relationship talk?

I tell them I don’t really want a relationship, it’s not something i want and value my freedom. That they’d fundamentally hate being in a relationship with me. That i like them and love spending time with them obviously, but if they need a relationship I understand and I’ll leave them alone to go seek it. They may not go in that moment but it allows them to pack their bags and they eventually do. I just let go an FB i was with for near a total of 2 years recently. YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO LET GIRLS GO.

 

[empath]

I haven’t, I’m lazy and selfish. I’m breaking down my system here for selfish reasons also.

Did you come up with it yourself through experience or you picked it from somewhere and refined it.

I noticed you are very honest with yourself and the girls you are as well.

 

[topcat]

in my dates, I will just end up with girls enjoying my company but things not going anywhere, leaving them frustrated, and thinking they liked me but I never made a move.

This is fundamentally a problem of not acting on her signals and responding to them with escalatory rewards.

 

[topcat]

Did you come up with it yourself through experience or you picked it from somewhere and refined it.

I noticed you are very honest with yourself and the girls you are as well.

10 years of trial and error + reading between the lines of @Chase SAC system, @Teevster indirect method and @Gunwitch 3 keys. And countless field note trading and analysis with @DoWhatWorks + various tidbits picked up from scouring the boards and forum and things picked up by watching interviews with highly competent non puas (often pimps and BDSM practitioners tbh).

Managing MLTR's and long term FBs contributed a HUGE amount too, arguably the most.

I was getting frustrated with my results (causing too much auto rejection, dropping the ball when i shouldn’t and general apathy towards the predictability of online dating) and this was the result of taking a break and doing some introspection end of 2023/start of 2024.

I prefer and work best with holistic systems that revolve around a central tenet and can be deployed based on the intuitive understanding of a single universal principle. I found the overly complicated breakdown of a lot of PUA systems annoying and far too bloated with technical details. It just slowed me down as there was so much to test and memorize. I get why it’s done (many come to this via autism/lack of socialization) but i don’t find such complicated systemizing useful in field at all.

 

[empath]

10 years of trial and error + reading between the lines of @Chase SAC system, @Teevster indirect method and @Gunwitch 3 keys. And countless field note trading and analysis with @DoWhatWorks + various tidbits picked up from scouring the boards and forum and things picked up by watching interviews with highly competent non puas (often pimps and BDSM practitioners tbh).

Managing MLTR's and long term FBs contributed a HUGE amount too, arguably the most.

I was getting frustrated with my results (causing too much auto rejection, dropping the ball when i shouldn’t and general apathy towards the predictability of online dating) and this was the result of taking a break and doing some introspection end of 2023/start of 2024.

I prefer and work best with holistic systems that revolve around a central tenet and can be deployed based on the intuitive understanding of a single universal principle. I found the overly complicated breakdown of a lot of PUA systems annoying and far too bloated with technical details. It just slowed me down as there was so much to test and memorize. I get why it’s done (many come to this via autism/lack of socialization) but i don’t find such complicated systemizing useful in field at all.

One more thing I noticed about your system is

you are basically leveraging your high openness to experience.

where it's “lets see where it goes” approach

we once discussed it my thread where you mentioned you have very high openness to experience and low neuroticism.

It combines both because you don’t care about the outcome and combine it with curiosity so you push ahead despite the reward being uncertain.

 

[topcat]

One more thing I noticed about your system is

you are basically leveraging your high openness to experience.

where it's “lets see where it goes” approach

we once discussed it my thread where you mentioned you have very high openness to experience and low neuroticism.

It combines both because you don’t care about the outcome and combine it with curiosity so you push ahead despite the reward being uncertain.

Good observation and not one i noticed myself until you mentioned it.

Yes this system is borne out of my own frustrations with following other’s systems and the nuances in the results i was getting (nothing against those systems, they work well obviously, they’re just not optimized for me).

I think at some point l, if you stick with this long enough you end up building a system tailor made for the way you move in the world.

 

[Atlas IV]

Quality report. Learned a lot about the power of compliance and rewarding investment.

He needs to do all that because he arrived before girls are ready to get pulled. Which is the same comment I made to James. you arrive later in the night. Approach that same girl that came alone. And the report doesn’t look as impressive. Because there’s no need for all that. It’s pull oclock

To offer a counter argument to this, I would say that Topcat got the girl because he arrived early and had the chance to build up her investment levels. Otherwise the "natural" would have swooped in and taken her.

In terms of SAC, that natural sounds like he was more arousing for her, given that her attention was constantly drawn to him. But by the time he finally engaged her at the end of the night (I guess he's figured out a working strategy of peacocking through the night then closing girls afterwards), TC had already established a strong foundation of compliance with her, and I believe the girl will always go with the guy she has more compliance with (girls don't want to start again from zero with another guy who comes along just because he's more arousing for her).

So, even though the other guy may have been more her "type" based on upfront appearance, Topcat won with superior seduction skills and wise use of time spent in the venue.

What shocked me the most though was this:

Drinks came to £58 (for two drinks mind you)

That's almost $80 for two drinks I think I'd blow a fuse if I saw the bill and it was that lol

 

[topcat]

To offer a counter argument to this, I would say that Topcat got the girl because he arrived early and had the chance to build up her investment levels. Otherwise the "natural" would have swooped in and taken her.

This sounds about right. I did notice the natural did nothing to get investment with any of th girls the whole night (it also turned out he worked at the venue), in stead attention farming. I think your read here..

I guess he's figured out a working strategy of peacocking through the night then closing girls afterwards

..is bang on

That's almost $80 for two drinks I think I'd blow a fuse if I saw the bill and it was that lol

Boy these London prices are no joke..

 

[Spike]

I guess he's figured out a working strategy of peacocking through the night then closing girls afterwards

Yeah. A sound strategy. And possibly something that works for him most of the time. He intuitively recognizes the club dynamics rules that were discussed here
https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/4th-and-final-saturday-night-out.31004/post-195304
As in: the first two hours or so “don’t count.” so don’t focus be focused on pulling. instead have your focus be on which girls you’d want to target when pull oclock comes along.

And then at pulloclock make your move.

Pulloclock = the last hour and a half before the club closes.

@DoWhatWorks shared a field report of his friend closing a girl at midnight , where the venue started at 8pm

LR - (Kinda) back from hiatus

TLDR: New one from nightgame this weekend just gone. Writing it as reference for myself and others. Feels good as I've been been in drought (fully caused by me) so this may become a useful series on how I rebuild from near 0. 1. 2. 3. 4. Long Version: Venue & No Response to Pings...

www.skilledseducer.com

So, even though the other guy may have been more her "type" based on upfront appearance, Topcat won with superior seduction skills and wise use of time spent in the venue

Even with everything topcat did, she’ll still gave the other guy a shot. But he dropped the ball. Allowing the conversation to lull. Not finding out if topcat and her were boyfriend and girlfriend. Not asking her where she was going with this guy who isn’t her boyfriend (topcat was trying to get her to go with him to another bar. While she said they could just go to the bar in that same venue to get a drink), and offered to get her a drink in that venue. By saying that the drinks at that bar topcat was trying to take her to were watered down. Then there’d be a real amog challenge.

 

[Skills]

Quality report. Learned a lot about the power of compliance and rewarding investment.


To offer a counter argument to this, I would say that Topcat got the girl because he arrived early and had the chance to build up her investment levels. Otherwise the "natural" would have swooped in and taken her.

yes

In terms of SAC, that natural sounds like he was more arousing for her, given that her attention was constantly drawn to him. But by the time he finally engaged her at the end of the night (I guess he's figured out a working strategy of peacocking through the night then closing girls afterwards), TC had already established a strong foundation of compliance with her, and I believe the girl will always go with the guy she has more compliance with (girls don't want to start again from zero with another guy who comes along just because he's more arousing for her).

not always, so lets say topcat got her the most aroused (as she complied) and the other dude came late, there are instances the first dude make kill novelty, and then the next dude get the rewards of newness and get transfer of the arousal.... But again not always..

So, even though the other guy may have been more her "type" based on upfront appearance, Topcat won with superior seduction skills and wise use of time spent in the venue.

yeah cause she got more invested, women are risk adverse as well... good point i said this...

What shocked me the most though was this:

That's almost $80 for two drinks I think I'd blow a fuse if I saw the bill and it was that lol

lol i would have lost the lay tbh, if i got a pay that...

 

[empath]

@Spike

curious what is your opinion on his looks?

he was in plain T-shirt and shorts and shabby beard.

Yet he got the lay.

just curious not calling out on your approach itself.

i think preselection or whatever that was is better than looks itself?

 

[Spike]

curious what is your opinion on his looks?

The fallacy of seduction success part 3 - What is optimal??

First definition: "best; most likely to bring success or advantage: Several treatment sessions are required in order to obtain optimal results. Conditions in the chamber are optimal for diffusion, reaching very high temperatures. Synonym the best or most effective possible in a particular...

www.skilledseducer.com

Most of my lays before 2021, I was dressed like shit. The point of having excellent fundamentals is to 1) help uncover attraction from the hottest girls. More consistently. 2) turn girls who otherwise wouldn’t be dtf into dtf. Instantly. 3) prevent harsh blowouts (negative social proof) 4) prevent cockblocks amongst other benefits. Is it required to have top notch fundementals to get laid? Absolutely not.

 

[Atlas IV]

Even with everything topcat did, she’ll still gave the other guy a shot. But he dropped the ball. Allowing the conversation to lull. Not finding out if topcat and her were boyfriend and girlfriend. Not asking her where she was going with this guy who isn’t her boyfriend (topcat was trying to get her to go with him to another bar. While she said they could just go to the bar in that same venue to get a drink), and offered to get her a drink in that venue. By saying that the drinks at that bar topcat was trying to take her to were watered down. Then there’d be a real amog challenge.

I understand preparing for all eventualities, but are amog challenges like that common enough to be worried about? That would require the other guy to know exactly what he's doing and do everything right, when most guys these days seem to suck at picking up even basic social cues.

not always, so lets say topcat got her the most aroused (as she complied) and the other dude came late, there are instances the first dude make kill novelty, and then the next dude get the rewards of newness and get transfer of the arousal.... But again not always..

Interesting. I guess I haven't been in enough night game situations like this to see how that plays out.

I guess that would depend on the strength of your compliance with her though, right? Like at some point the compliance with you would outweigh the arousal of a new guy for her (assuming you're handling it well - like how TC did with push-pull and rewarding investment)

 

[Spike]

when most guys these days seem to suck at picking up even basic social cues

Yes. Most of the time you have nothing to worry about. Skilled lotharios are a rare breed

Like at some point the compliance with you would outweigh the arousal of a new guy for her (assuming you're handling it well - like how TC did with push-pull and rewarding investment)

There are no guarantees in pickup. Just high odds decisions. Even after all that can still get wildcarded and lose the lay