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LR: Blonde in a microskirt

empath

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Feb 16, 2024
Messages
772
Any tips on flirting?

any notes you compiled etc

what if girl is not giving you enough material to banter or flirt.

I think you will count it as compliance, for you she did not complied, so you don’t reward her with further interaction right?

Were you always a good flirt or developed it?
 

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 27, 2023
Messages
1,181
hopefully many more to come!
Appreciate it bruv.
laugh-cry.gif
 

topcat

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
1,065
Any tips on flirting?

any notes you compiled etc

what if girl is not giving you enough material to banter or flirt.

I think you will count it as compliance, for you she did not complied, so you don’t reward her with further interaction right?

Were you always a good flirt or developed it?
Was hit and miss in my early days. The instinct comes with talking to women and getting success.

I don’t really even consider if the girl will flirt back or not. Flirtation isn’t compliance. At best it produces arousal, which you can then leverage into compliance. It can also get girls auto investing.

I personally flirt because it feels good, feels right, and to amuse myself on dates. These days I somewhat need to seduce/amuse myself to even be interested in having sex with the girl.

What this looks like in practise:
teasing her, misinterpreting things she says, and the majority is honestly just subcommunication: eye contact, close proximity, incidental touching, slow and low vocals, feigning shyness, acting provocatively (sometimes even mirroring female-coded provocativeness).

It isn’t reliant on the girl's ability to reciprocate at all.
 
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alexlaguma

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Apr 20, 2024
Messages
175
Damn.

@topcat dropping some gold in here brother.

Reading through your compliance based system has given me a lot of food for thought. It is making me suspect that one of the reasons I've struggled with retention over the years is down to lack of rewarding investment on their side. I'm typically slow to text back, show very little enthusiasm etc.

Excellent stuff man, and insane conversion numbers. Interested in seeing if you maintain that in your non-OLD phase.
 

empath

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Feb 16, 2024
Messages
772
Good observation and not one i noticed myself until you mentioned it.

Yes this system is borne out of my own frustrations with following other’s systems and the nuances in the results i was getting (nothing against those systems, they work well obviously, they’re just not optimized for me).

I think at some point l, if you stick with this long enough you end up building a system tailor made for the way you move in the world.
One more thing

so your traits like using high openness to experience and curiosity

what other skills have you mastered apart from Pick Up eg - dancing or singing art etc

Also, how you used it to master Pu itself

basically I am asking how to use your personality to achieve mastery and improve learning
 

topcat

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
1,065
One more thing

so your traits like using high openness to experience and curiosity

what other skills have you mastered apart from Pick Up eg - dancing or singing art etc

Also, how you used it to master Pu itself

basically I am asking how to use your personality to achieve mastery and improve learning
Art, coding, I'm decent at dancing. I master skills because i'm interested and enjoy the experience of doing it, or out of necessity. Usually it's a mix of those two things. Skills i master for necessity typically requires me engaging my low agreeableness (compettitive, antisocial and need for self-sufficiency) + my low neuroticism to maintain resilience + openness to aid in pattern recognition and problem solving. Where things can falter is my low conscientiousness which tends to lead to me losing interest or focus if things get too repetitive - increasing the stakes (competitiveness, feeds my low agreeableness) or focusing on the intellectual or aesthetic nuance of the pursuit (feeds my openness) helps keep me interested in these cases.
 

empath

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Feb 16, 2024
Messages
772
10 years of trial and error + reading between the lines of @Chase SAC system, @Teevster indirect method and @Gunwitch 3 keys. And countless field note trading and analysis with @DoWhatWorks + various tidbits picked up from scouring the boards and forum and things picked up by watching interviews with highly competent non puas (often pimps and BDSM practitioners tbh).

Managing MLTR's and long term FBs contributed a HUGE amount too, arguably the most.

I was getting frustrated with my results (causing too much auto rejection, dropping the ball when i shouldn’t and general apathy towards the predictability of online dating) and this was the result of taking a break and doing some introspection end of 2023/start of 2024.

I prefer and work best with holistic systems that revolve around a central tenet and can be deployed based on the intuitive understanding of a single universal principle. I found the overly complicated breakdown of a lot of PUA systems annoying and far too bloated with technical details. It just slowed me down as there was so much to test and memorize. I get why it’s done (many come to this via autism/lack of socialization) but i don’t find such complicated systemizing useful in field at all.
Curious,

if you had figure out your system and do it faster, like know your style and then master it.

How would you go about it? With the knowledge and experience you have now.

Basically figuring out your system which works for pretty good for yourself, customised to your nature, in a faster way say instead of 10 years, in 2 years.
 

topcat

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
1,065
Curious,

if you had figure out your system and do it faster, like know your style and then master it.

How would you go about it? With the knowledge and experience you have now.

Basically figuring out your system which works for pretty good for yourself, customised to your nature, in a faster way say instead of 10 years, in 2 years.
There’s no replacement for experience. So i would’ve tried to have gotten even more volume than I did in a shorter time frame (avg 30 a year vs ~20).

I would’ve read as many articles on the blog as possible and distilled their core tenets into a simple process quickly (probably run them through chatgpt for this). And gone out there and practised doggedly.

Basically just everything I already did, just faster..

That would require a lot more money and time though. Securing the high/independent income needed to have the free time to pour into this has been the biggest barrier to high volume.

Leaning on online as my primary source of leads gave me the greatest volume vs time and money invested.
 

504

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Oct 21, 2020
Messages
68
Hey @topcat !

I'd like to join the derail-discussion, but first:

thank you for taking the time to write up the LR! I have nothing of value to add to it, but I appreciate your publishing it for the readership, there is a lot to be learned from it!


That would require a lot more money and time though. Securing the high/independent income needed to have the free time to pour into this has been the biggest barrier to high volume.

Leaning on online as my primary source of leads gave me the greatest volume vs time and money invested.


You amassed a lot of girl experience by using OLD and using the boost in "free" time to become a well-earning freelancer, right? So was the reason you didn't do (much?) day/night/evening/transit/rave/brunch game purely a time thing or did something entice you into OLD and/or dissuade you from "live game"?

Thanks!
 

topcat

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
1,065
Hey @topcat !

I'd like to join the derail-discussion, but first:

thank you for taking the time to write up the LR! I have nothing of value to add to it, but I appreciate your publishing it for the readership, there is a lot to be learned from it!





You amassed a lot of girl experience by using OLD and using the boost in "free" time to become a well-earning freelancer, right? So was the reason you didn't do (much?) day/night/evening/transit/rave/brunch game purely a time thing or did something entice you into OLD and/or dissuade you from "live game"?

Thanks!
A few things.

I started with OLD and I was seeing great results from it very early and the quality wasn’t really a problem. It was fulfilling my primary reason for getting into seduction in the first place by providing me with lots of sex. Minimum 4 lays a month by swiping on the toilet a few days a week, running a practically copy and pasted process - it was hard to beat.

I was also pulling girls from shiftwork i used to do, and occasionally cold approach without much AA or a reduction in results so mastering it wasn’t much of a priority - I knew i could if i wanted to. It was mainly an efficiency thing. And I can be pretty antisocial so regularly having to present as friendly & welcoming, seemed like lots of effort for potentially worse results. Exhausting.

I’ve only shifted because it’s become boring and I have a clearer idea of the kinds of girls I enjoy and want to improve the odds I meet them. It’s also the last thing in seduction I want to prove to myself - hard to say you’ve mastered it if you don’t/cant dg with consistency IMO.

Nightgame - was never really my thing. I love dancing, love music, but it’s not an environment I care to game in. I find the superficiality off putting, everybody is faking the funk and trying to appear cooler than they are. It’s silly. Plus the prospect of eating sweaty disco vag after a night of vanquishing AMOGs, doesn’t entice..
 
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lindsayrrr

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 22, 2016
Messages
56
Took place last Thursday. It's been about 6 months since I quit OLD for good. I haven't been gaming actively for just as long as I'm focused on biz atm but have committed to exclusively seducing offline. This lay was unexpected but marks my first foray into this new chapter.

Laying the Groundwork

Last Thursday.

My cousin invites me out to a seminar at an art institution in the city. There’s a DJ set afterwards but my main intent for the evening is to catch up with my her as we’ve not done so in a while.

I have no intent in staying and even less intention to meet anybody.

For the past year business has overtaken pussy as my main area of improvement and it shows in my dress for the evening - basic black athletic shorts, a basic black tee. Black sneakers. I’m dressed for the gym, unshaven. Wild hair.

Before I step out, I check myself in the mirror, shrug, and reassure myself that I’m not going out to impress. My cousin has a date after the seminar anyway, so my plan is to leave when she does. To make matters worse the bus there is swelteringly hot and has me sweating like a pig. I’m really in no state to meet women.


First Ping

I arrive at the seminar slightly late, sit down beside my cousin, with a girl to my right.

The girl to my right seems cute, the darkness of the room considering, and she’s fanning herself with one of those Chinese fans in vogue with girls this summer.

I appreciate the secondhand breeze I'm receiving, and I tell her as much. She coyly states how she was trying not to disturb me with her fanning and then proceeds to fan heavier. We exchange a few words throughout the seminar and I get her name and country of origin.

I’m hoping to catch her after, but as soon as the seminar ends and the lights switch on she wishes me goodbye and heads out before I can slow her down.

My cousin convinces me to stay for the dj set as she has an hour to kill and I agree to.

We take position up by the booth and dance amongst ourselves.


Blonde Chick Hovers

We’ve been dancing and socialising amongst ourselves for perhaps half an hour, when I notice a girl plant herself against the wall near my cousin.

Blonde, richly tanned skin, slim and leggy.
She’s in a crop top that hugs her breasts. Tight midriff exposed. A low rise micro skirt. And black heeled sandals.
Not only is she sexy, but she stands out against the drably outfitted hipsters that make up the crowd.

She’s on my radar.

It’s not long before her and my cousin are deep in conversation.
My cousin radiates good energy and is generally a people loving person so I’m not surprised.

My mind goes to contemplating if blondey is using her as a stepping stone to get to me...

I observe in my peripherals, but mind my business, so to any observer appearing to be lost in my own world and the music.

My cousin is very intuitive (she’s also bi), and soon introduces me to the scantily clad - we’ll call her Jess.

I say hi, and shake her hand. Jess squeezes mine and comments on the strength of both mine and my cousin’s grips.

After these brief pleasantries, i back off and get back to dancing allowing my cousin and her to talk in peace.

Every now and again, when their convo lulls and she’s hanging back I’ll make small talk, a comment or two, and then bounce out giving her space to consider and engage me.
I do this as standard with all girls I seduce as I find it allows them to choose me (which you’ll see later they really appreciate) and it allows me to gauge their investment in the seduction.

After one such test Jess reengages me but this time leans into me.
To me, this is a clear sign of interest, and requires rewarding, so as she talks, I lean on the wall into her to signal the feeling is mutual.
As we talk I make sure to lean out periodically to give her space (and afford her some plausible deniability considering we’re in public) before leaning in again to reward her engagement.

There’s clearly something here and I wonder if i can make something of it.

My cousin says her goodbyes and heads out to her date asking if I’d like to accompany her. I tell her I’m staying.


Preselection. Testing Investment. Priming the Pull

Me and Jess chat a little more. And then we flit off to give each other space.

What’s interesting is while in convo with this girl I couldn’t help but notice the eyes of many of the of the other women in the room lock onto me.

I'm an online guy traditionally, never social circle and very rarely I daygame solo so Iit was actually quite startling to see live.
I’d be lost in convo, look up only to see one girl or another staring intently.

I use this preselection to bounce off of when I wasn’t talking to my main interest - say when she went off to the bar or off socialising with others. I’m not somebody that uses preselection in my stack much at all nor nightgames, so the eager reception I received upon opening was pretty amusing.

Predictably I’d find Jess hovering, not long into engaging one girl or another and so as not to trigger auto rejection I’d make sure to cut thread with the new girl, whilst casually acknowledging Jess before reengaging the accessory chick.

As time progresses I’m having less and less face time with Jess, as I’m mostly off doing my own thing socialising and dancing with myself. But periodically I’ll casually ping her to test her for investment, very light touch before disappearing again as I’m mindful not to cramp her style and bed down too early as i’m still not sure how committed she is to getting me.

I test warmly, and If I get nothing I give nothing.

For the majority of this period, she's perched by the wall where I initially met her. And I'm away in the center of the room dancing and drifiting amongst people.

I’ll also add that, there’s another guy in the building who is commanding a lot of attention and ‘appears’ more impressive than me.
Very charismatic.
Dancing enthusiastically and skilled at it, dreadlocks, piercings. A unique and edgy style.
She’s clearly signalling him and wants his attention and I’m very curious to see how this plays out.

I hang back and observe as I’m not a nightgamer and I’m always willing to learn from somebody “better”. If he makes off with her I’ll chalk it to the game. I’ve had plenty pussy in my life and there’s plenty more to come, whether hers or somebody else’s.


Pull 1

The DJs announce the last song and so I move over to her and ask if she has a busy day tomorrow.

She doesn’t.

I suggest we get a drink.

She inquires where and I say I’m in the mood for an adventure, I’ll find somewhere.

She pushes back saying, "it’s late aren’t bars closed?".

I say “Hmm maybe. But i’m sure we’ll find something”.

She pushes back again saying they have a bar at the venue we’re at and "I say i know but I’m feeling to explore a little..", then I interject by saying “lets see how we feel..”.

She agrees, then proceeds to leave the building. I hang back and let her go, assuming she’s gone, but if I find her waiting for me it’s probably on.

Then i exit too. She’s outside milling about the left side of the doors so I hang to the right and play on my phone in an area that’s quite visible and makes it easy to find me.

She comes over and says “so what are we doing?”.

I say heading to a hotel bar and we set off.

Before we can exit the venue grounds, the charismatic dude I mentioned earlier intercepts us, the one she was signalling.
He’s hella friendly and addresses me primarily, offering me a spliff (i don’t smoke), takes my details likely as a pivot to take her details (excellent game) and she’s eager to jump into a convo with him.

I hang back feigning distraction, whilst observing and looking up open hotel bars nearby. I find one and let her know casually which she acknowledges but remains in convo with dude. Then their conversation lulls, Jess asks me where we're going. We say our good byes and head out.
He was good but you handled this with a chilled vibe. It's nice that you respected the dude to give him a chance while also showing her that you're threatened by a bit of competition. He had a good play but yours was better 👌
The Bar

We find our bar.

It’s hella grand and I’m mightily underdressed and shabby-looking for the place but idgaf.

We order drinks and conversation mainly consists of me letting her talk, leading the conversation by having her bounce around various subjects and asking inquiring questions.

I tease her sporadically.

Sexual frames are set by proximity, the knowing smirk on my face, eye contact and me having my hand on her exposed thighs (she’s in micro skirt remember) - she doesn’t resist.

It’s about about an hour in now, when the barmen announce the bar is closing and rush us out.

Drinks came to £58 (for two drinks mind you) and I’m not covering that all myself so I have them split the bill and we jet.


Pull 2

Outside I comment on how beautiful the summer night is, and then ask her if she’d like company on her journey home (mind you she lives on the far north end of the city, way out from where I live but fuck it..).

She asks if I’m such a gentleman that I’d be willing to see her safely home to her door only to go all the way back home, so late in the night. I shrug and tell her “why not? I just love an adventure..”.

She asks why not my place and then anticipates my answer that it’s a mess (which it is as I’ve been so locked in the past month on business and haven’t taken the time to clean it).
This takes a lot of faith and courage, or a shit ton confidence in your game. Either way nice play as well. Defs wanna try this out sometime, its got nice guy written all over it but you can a lot of sexual energy to the overall move to extend and spice things up and gauge her interest. Thanks for the idea. Top tier lay.
Game on - we’re boarding the Underground for the 30 minute journey to hers.

While on the train she gets to talking at me about her travels, her family history, her ex and the nature of their relationship, then compliments me on my ability to listen and attributes it to the fact that my family is female dominated (I grew up in a family where females outnumber men almost 3:1). This probably has something to do with it.

On arriving at her station I put my arm around her and she does the same to me and we walk and talk.

Arriving at her gate, I tell her that I’ve seen her home safeso I’ll be going, wink wink.

She obviously stops me. brings me in for a kiss and is all over me, moaning and everything. I have little interest in being out on the street macking so I ask for a glass of water. She ignores me and continues to stick her tongue down my throat.

After tolerating some more of this I ask again for a glass of water and we enter her place.


Couch → Shower → Sex

It’s lovely inside and I tell her as much.

She’s very hospitable providing me with water and chopped fruit. We talk some more, for perhaps a half hour, make out some more on the couch then she offers me a shower.
I jump at this as I’ve been marinating in my own sweat for 5 hours and theres no way I’m fucking her in this state. I was honestly about to ask her myself.

It turns out her shower knob is stuck on boiling.

She voices her upset saying she was hoping to have a shower with me. I tell her its cool I’ll do it ghetto style and bird bath out of her sink. She also offers me her toothbrush.

I bird bath, she comes into the bathroom while I do so, tries the shower again and this time its spouting cool water.

Excellent.

We shower together, sex in the shower. Sex in the bedroom.



Debrief.Confessions.Insight

After all is said and done I ask her when she decided she was into me.

She said she felt it was mutual when we were leaning into each other when we first were introduced by my cousin. She felt she should hold back in this moment because she was showing too much interest too early and appreciated that I leaned out and gave her space before she needed to.

She really pressed on the fact that I could take it or leave it and was impressed further by the fact that I was willing to turn around and go home after walking her home.


Conclusion

These days I approach women, seductions, and dates with the attitude to see what happens.
I’ve told this to @DoWhatWorks on a call we had last year, but when I meet women now my only goal is to show up & flirt. It’s weird, but since carrying this attitude, without fail, the women have escalated on me and moved things forward before I was caught up to them. Of the past 19 dates I’ve had, I’ve closed 18 the day I met her with them pressing things forward. Less is now much more.
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

ChrisXKiss

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 31, 2023
Messages
584
Make sense?
Yes I understand the concept, I feel my issue is that I reward but then I keep rewarding and I don’t punish well if they start not complying.
This is fundamentally a problem of not acting on her signals and responding to them with escalatory rewards.

Because my problem is rarely that they don’t know I am into them, it’s more that they know if they spend more time with me I will definitely invite them home and escalate.

At least it’s how it feels to me, because I escalate and go for a pull or a close more or less in every interaction I’ve had for a while, but when I get resistance I am not sure how to handle it in a way that still moves things forward.

So I was wondering if I should start building up comfort arousal and compliance without pulling or escalating to see if they would do it themselves.

It doesn’t feel like a very high odds play but it also feels sometimes that I am just pushing and pushing when the whole way to bed should be progressing a bit more naturally.

And I know that in the end it’s about calibrating the rewards and punishments based on every particular occasion, it’s just not very obvious to me at this point what is the best course of action in every scenario.

I probably need to make a list of different kind of responses or reactions the girl can give and decide what is the highest probability play in every occasion. For example if it is earlier in the night and she is not fully hooked just let her socialise and do so yourself, but if it is the end of the night and you can feel a vibe persist on taking her somewhere else a lot more.

Just keep moving things towards the bedroom, but only as a reward for her investment in the interaction, that you ask for.

Every reward you give is in proportion to and a reflection of the size and tone of the investment she gives you. Whether you asked for it or she auto invested.
This is the part that I specifically feel I should internalise and practice more.
 
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