LTR of 7 years is not sure any more

[memoboy]

Hey,

Any advice for a situation of LTR of 7 years gone sour? (I know – another relationship attraction drop timeframe.)
We are not living together currently. I am 40, she is 34. But surely are sharing some logistics still.
I would be up to move things forward but only with an enthusiastic loving girlfriend. I don't want to swim upstream too much, either.
But I am willing to put in some work. For myself 1st, too. I know I have ways I could level up surely in my ways. And I have my own shit I have to own. I know I should have solved any problems earlier and not let things go so far.

We both have felt the relationship become more stale (daily life struggles), and we becoming more distant.

I must have seen it coming, she has been reading Esther Perel's books for a year now.

She didn't want to bring up anything herself nor to break up (yet?), but when I said things have feeling off and when I pressed, she said things like:

She has started to think that maybe we are not compatible enough. (We've had our arguments, I agree.)
I must have been fed up with her shit tests of being annoyed about some of my daily habits.
Like she never doubted the core of it until now but now the thought has started to creep in.
And that she's been unhappy for some time. Like enough has built up.

I don't make her feel desired and womanly enough. Not enough dates or compliments. Or that we haven't sufficiently learned each other's love languages enough.

(She still wants to hang out a lot and is complaining that we haven't done it enough).

(She has started to go out more and said she was stunned at how much attention she got).
(She has asked me to go along most of the time, but I don't have as much desire to party until wee hours.)
She has also suddenly started to share more on social media. Not so much about herself but some. But still a visible change as she was very private and didn't share much at all usually.

She is not sure anymore whether we can work it out. Like she wants to but is not sure either or how, bla bla. But she doesn't want to break up either (or so she says). She just doesn't know, bla bla.
(Open communication has never been her strong side.)

She knows I love her and appreciate her, and she loves and cares for me. But she doesn't know. Bla bla.
But she knows I am her dream man BUT she doesn't know bla bla. Super wishy washy.

Technically I didn't get the ILYBINILWY speech ("I love you but I'm not in love with you") (yet?), but she might as well say it given how she acts often lately. Surely, it seems to be the case that she 100% is not getting her feelz with me (right now or any more).
She did mention that she doesn't want to lose me a friend bla bla. So that kinda ringed the old bell and alarm in me.

I asked where she would see herself in 5 years. She said living in a country side doing her thing.
It's my dream too. But ofc only with a LTR that is enthusiastic with me not like this.

She brought out several things like about how she's been unhappy with me. (When I pressed of course). My work, house cleanliness. How I have not gone out with her or visited her friends enough. (I still have; I think it's partly true but partly excuses). I just don't want to party as much nor get drunk as often. And I think she shouldn't either as much as we used to. She is not 27 any more when we met. I still think we have done it more than most people should.

I know I pressed, but it kind of made me feel guilty suddenly of not doing enough.
I guess she can be right in some ways but also I have done enough I think.
And I have taken care of her a lot. And she knows it and admits it.

And she did admit she has been difficult too.

Sex has also become rare and not passionate enough. Has been for a while also. That's also partly why I started to invest less.
Of course, now I also used to be sick for several weeks, so no wonder. But it has gone on longer of course.

Her best friend just recently broke up from her 4 years of LTR and is experiencing an NRE with someone new. So that also could be a contributing factor. They also go out a lot and spend time together. I have been asked to come along but I just haven't wanted to do that too much or been able to.

What should I do? Ideally, I would like to mend things with her and find a way to go back to when we were more passionate about each other.

Or is this stage too late and I should I just break up with her?

Or is there some dread I should still apply before?

Of course, this comes at a shitty time for me, when I have just been really busy with a work project for a few months straight and then sick for 3 weeks, not able to train/work out, and just generally feeling lower. I kind of noticed how she didn't really come to take care of me as she usually would. But these things always tend to go that way – I know when shit hits the fan, it doesn't do usually do it in a convenient time.

She still asked me to come over today and cooked for me, she kissed and cuddled etc.

So I guess not 100% it's lost, but it's undoubtedly is in very shaky ground.

 

[reeax]

From my experience, she wants to break with you but doesn't know how, as she still has feelings because of good memories together. You are both living in the past. It's a matter of time, and it's a lost game. Some time later when she suddenly breaks up with you because she's secretly seeing some other dude, you will regret every single minute of your life spent in this shit being unhappy. It's hard but leave. Unfortunately attraction has an expiration date, and not only during pick-up. Somebody other is waiting out there for both of you.

 

[Will_V]

Hey,

Any advice for a situation of LTR of 7 years gone sour? (I know – another relationship attraction drop timeframe.)
We are not living together currently. I am 40, she is 34. But surely are sharing some logistics still.
I would be up to move things forward but only with an enthusiastic loving girlfriend. I don't want to swim upstream too much, either.
But I am willing to put in some work. For myself 1st, too. I know I have ways I could level up surely in my ways. And I have my own shit I have to own. I know I should have solved any problems earlier and not let things go so far.

We both have felt the relationship become more stale (daily life struggles), and we becoming more distant.

I must have seen it coming, she has been reading Esther Perel's books for a year now.

She didn't want to bring up anything herself nor to break up (yet?), but when I said things have feeling off and when I pressed, she said things like:

She has started to think that maybe we are not compatible enough. (We've had our arguments, I agree.)
I must have been fed up with her shit tests of being annoyed about some of my daily habits.
Like she never doubted the core of it until now but now the thought has started to creep in.
And that she's been unhappy for some time. Like enough has built up.

I don't make her feel desired and womanly enough. Not enough dates or compliments. Or that we haven't sufficiently learned each other's love languages enough.

(She still wants to hang out a lot and is complaining that we haven't done it enough).

(She has started to go out more and said she was stunned at how much attention she got).
(She has asked me to go along most of the time, but I don't have as much desire to party until wee hours.)
She has also suddenly started to share more on social media. Not so much about herself but some. But still a visible change as she was very private and didn't share much at all usually.

She is not sure anymore whether we can work it out. Like she wants to but is not sure either or how, bla bla. But she doesn't want to break up either (or so she says). She just doesn't know, bla bla.
(Open communication has never been her strong side.)

She knows I love her and appreciate her, and she loves and cares for me. But she doesn't know. Bla bla.
But she knows I am her dream man BUT she doesn't know bla bla. Super wishy washy.

Technically I didn't get the ILYBINILWY speech ("I love you but I'm not in love with you") (yet?), but she might as well say it given how she acts often lately. Surely, it seems to be the case that she 100% is not getting her feelz with me (right now or any more).
She did mention that she doesn't want to lose me a friend bla bla. So that kinda ringed the old bell and alarm in me.

I asked where she would see herself in 5 years. She said living in a country side doing her thing.
It's my dream too. But ofc only with a LTR that is enthusiastic with me not like this.

She brought out several things like about how she's been unhappy with me. (When I pressed of course). My work, house cleanliness. How I have not gone out with her or visited her friends enough. (I still have; I think it's partly true but partly excuses). I just don't want to party as much nor get drunk as often. And I think she shouldn't either as much as we used to. She is not 27 any more when we met. I still think we have done it more than most people should.

I know I pressed, but it kind of made me feel guilty suddenly of not doing enough.
I guess she can be right in some ways but also I have done enough I think.
And I have taken care of her a lot. And she knows it and admits it.

And she did admit she has been difficult too.

Sex has also become rare and not passionate enough. Has been for a while also. That's also partly why I started to invest less.
Of course, now I also used to be sick for several weeks, so no wonder. But it has gone on longer of course.

Her best friend just recently broke up from her 4 years of LTR and is experiencing an NRE with someone new. So that also could be a contributing factor. They also go out a lot and spend time together. I have been asked to come along but I just haven't wanted to do that too much or been able to.

What should I do? Ideally, I would like to mend things with her and find a way to go back to when we were more passionate about each other.

Or is this stage too late and I should I just break up with her?

Or is there some dread I should still apply before?

Of course, this comes at a shitty time for me, when I have just been really busy with a work project for a few months straight and then sick for 3 weeks, not able to train/work out, and just generally feeling lower. I kind of noticed how she didn't really come to take care of me as she usually would. But these things always tend to go that way – I know when shit hits the fan, it doesn't do usually do it in a convenient time.

She still asked me to come over today and cooked for me, she kissed and cuddled etc.

So I guess not 100% it's lost, but it's undoubtedly is in very shaky ground.

She's 34 - are you planning to have kids at any point? Are your goals for the future still compatible? You're both at a point in life where people have typically defined themselves and set up their lives for the long haul. Not everyone needs or wants to do that, but she might have expectations of you being more established, certain, and secure. And that can make her question 'who am I setting up my life with?'

Regarding fixing things up, this is one of those situations you can't deal with directly. You can't go and say some words or do some thing that will magically put everything where it needs to be. Loss of attraction in relationships usually happens from slow realizations that dawn over months or years, that cannot be turned around from one day to the next.

And because of this, guys usually start chasing and getting needy, because they can't bear to continue to feel things slipping away in a way that they cannot immediately respond to, even if, because of the momentum that has built up, there's no way to avoid that happening for some time before they can turn around.

My strategy for dealing with these kinds of positions is:

- Don't react
- Use the emotional energy from the situation instead to accelerate my general progress in life and self-development
- Figure out what I have done that has contributed to the problem and start fixing that (even if it will take a long time)
- Let her be the main one who tries to 'do things' to fix the relationship directly - with an attitude of 'I like her but if she goes she goes, and for the right reasons too'

In a way, this response is similar as if you had a breakup - you end up alone, with a bunch of clarity about the dumb shit you've done, a lot of emotional energy to dump, and so you just start attacking life as a lone soldier again the way it was before she arrived.

The powerful thing is to do this while you still haven't broken up - it shows that you are taking initiative and responsibility for your own life and mistakes, without chasing her or blaming her or victimizing yourself from her actions or needing her approval, or doing it for her at all - you don't seem to worry too much if she even hangs around at all. And if that doesn't stir a woman up nothing will. Ideally she then comes to you trying to 'talk it over' and 'figure things out' and generally negotiate while you just sit there dealing with her as if she's only one non-critical part of your life success story.

 

[reeax]

I agree with Will and his excellent post about attitude, life lessons, self reflection and not blaming the other party etc.

However, the harsh reality is that the chances of her coming back and starting to work things out while you sit there (she starts to chase) are close to 0 in my opinion. The only way that can happen is if you start providing a magnitude more value than you did before (like becoming a rockstar, offering her a crazy lifestyle after a successful startup sale, etc), and that can't happen overnight. At this point, the only realistic thing you can do is decide to have kids with her, but maybe she doesn't want that with you anymore, which is entirely possible.

And as Will said, "you end up alone". But in this setup, you end up alone, with no benefits of being alone. That's a recipe for long agony my friend, as you watch things fall apart, and there's nothing you can do about it. The "I'm focusing on myself" attitude isn't a game changer, but a time waste.

 

[Will_V]

However, the harsh reality is that the chances of her coming back and starting to work things out while you sit there (she starts to chase) are close to 0 in my opinion.

It's entirely possible, and not as difficult as you think.

Unconsciously, people tend to view other people (and even themselves) as fairly static in terms of who they can become. Especially when they fit the mold of other, similar people, the path someone takes through life is considered to be predictable and known. That guy, he is A kind of guy, or B kind of guy. That woman, she is X kind of woman, or Y kind of woman. There will be little ups and downs in their life, like the seasons, but nothing will ever radically change.

That's the kind of perception that goes on in long term relationships. After some time you have an 'end of history illusion' in regards to the other person, the relationship, and consequently yourself as well. That's all there is to it, it's just what we've done up until now, repeated ad nauseum for all eternity. And that's a very bitter thought.

While kids can sometimes change that a little bit - since kids develop quickly and nothing ever stays the same with them around - it's much better to deal with this perception directly, by presenting yourself as (and being) someone who does not stay on one path, who is always somewhat difficult to categorize, unpredictable, unknown and mysterious, given to embarking suddenly on enterprises that it was difficult to foresee that they would do, who appears to prioritize her in a highly variable way according to whatever else has captured his imagination. Such a person presents the frame that their life is a carving of their own story, modified at will, rather than simply being another data point in the boring history of normality. And this makes them easy to follow, easy to submit to, and overall much more exciting, because while anyone can be this kind of person, very few ever will, because it requires living in constant uncertainty, change, and initiative - which she can also have fun living in too, without having any of the responsibility of success.

Think about what this woman has said, particularly this: she mentioned to him that she was 'stunned' at how much attention she gets from other dudes. The frame here is: 'I'm still moving up, I still have potential, but you don't seem to'. She clearly sees him as being a known, predictable, and increasingly boring entity.

She also has issues with his habits, work, and cleanliness. Women don't care about these things when they are excited about a man. They start to pick on them when the other half of the relationship - the part where she's shacked up with an exciting, dominant dude who is going places - starts fading out of existence.

My real strength in all my relationships is my ability (and willingness) to get up and kick the tables of my life over so that I can do something new, different, and better, regardless of what anyone else thinks about it. And especially when I feel like things are getting too normal and boring and all of it starts to annoy me, I'm even more motivated to do it. And that keeps women guessing, keeps them interested, keeps them feeling like their frame (which is dependent on mine) can be flipped on its back at any time. And that's exciting for them, and it keeps them in a loop because they can never quite check out without knowing for sure if their predictions were accurate or what I'm going to do next.

I remember Zan Perrion saying that he thinks a man should reinvent himself entirely every 10 years or so. That's already good advice that 99% of people will never take - and when you end up in a boring, go-nowhere position with a woman who is fast losing attraction, you might consider doing it even sooner.

The only way that can happen is if you start providing a magnitude more value than you did before (like becoming a rockstar, offering her a crazy lifestyle after a successful startup sale, etc), and that can't happen overnight. At this point, the only realistic thing you can do is decide to have kids with her, but maybe she doesn't want that with you anymore, which is entirely possible.

No, offering her a rockstar lifestyle is not the only other option. All she needs to see is a man who has not reached the end of his life's history.

And as Will said, "you end up alone". But in this setup, you end up alone, with no benefits of being alone. That's a recipe for long agony my friend, as you watch things fall apart, and there's nothing you can do about it. The "I'm focusing on myself" attitude isn't a game changer, but a time waste.

How can focusing on yourself ever be a time waste? I can hardly think of anything better regardless of whether she sticks around or not.

And at the end of the day, the question should not be whether she wants to keep him, but whether she is keeping up with him, or if he even wants her still.

 

[reeax]

I was talking about the "I focus on myself - you're not as important as you think" attitude, hoping she'll start chasing. Focusing on yourself is indeed the best thing you can do in life, but adopting this attitude in the hope of getting the girl back is a total waste of time, in my experience.

And what I mean by "become a rock star/tech CEO with an exit" is a hyperbolic way of saying that the OP would have to reinvent himself very strongly to have a chance of keeping the girl. You simply put it in a more humble and down-to-earth way. About that - I've had GFs telling me that this instability and uncertainty about what's next in my life was far too much for them, even emotionally draining. So too much is not always a good thing.

Time is precious, OP is 40, and there are certainly tons of other girls he could be dating right now who wouldn't be inferior options to his current girlfriend.

Most people, myself included, have a hard time letting go, and in the end, you get nothing out of it, because you're playing a losing battle. Wasting your life when the odds are stacked against you is the real danger.

By the way Will great posts as always, thanks for that!

 

[Will_V]

I was talking about the "I focus on myself - you're not as important as you think" attitude, hoping she'll start chasing. Focusing on yourself is indeed the best thing you can do in life, but adopting this attitude in the hope of getting the girl back is a total waste of time, in my experience.

Yeah it's more of a reinforcement of self than it is a tactic to win her back. It just happens to be the only way I know of to really bring a relationship back to a level of positive uncertainty (i.e. potential) when you have stagnated. And while @memoboy hasn't talked much about it my impression is that he's done exactly that - although there's certainly an element of her reaching a turning point in her life as well.

And what I mean by "become a rock star/tech CEO with an exit" is a hyperbolic way of saying that the OP would have to reinvent himself very strongly to have a chance of keeping the girl. You simply put it in a more humble and down-to-earth way. About that - I've had GFs telling me that this instability and uncertainty about what's next in my life was far too much for them, even emotionally draining. So too much is not always a good thing.

Yeah that's true. It's not so much about the magnitude of what you do but the attitude and energy with which you do it. Being some crazy person who's just tiring to be around is going to wear her out, but being always able and willing to move in a direction of your own choosing, with intelligence, strategy, and energy, is very captivating - I would even describe it as being charismatic in some sense. It adds romance to your life that has nothing to do with her.

And what it really shows in terms of difference, is that your resources are at your disposal - for most people, society or even other people have to enable them and provide them with an approved path before they can bring out what they are capable of.

Time is precious, OP is 40, and there are certainly tons of other girls he could be dating right now who wouldn't be inferior options to his current girlfriend.

Most people, myself included, have a hard time letting go, and in the end, you get nothing out of it, because you're playing a losing battle. Wasting your life when the odds are stacked against you is the real danger.

Whenever you're faced with a difficult situation, you have to make some kind of active consolidating move as early as possible. It puts you in a position where you have more options, more self-confidence, more drive available to you.

Relationships are not one of those things that give clear answers - should I stay or should I go? Should I try to save it or let it fail? And there are always, always things you've done wrong. In those kind of muddled, emotional situations, you have to do things that make you stronger and able to face whatever comes while knowing that at least you didn't fail to live up to the person you were capable of being - a person who might even find her later to be not up to scratch, but at least can then let her go without her taking with her the opportunity to correct your own personal failure in the time and place where it occurred.

By the way Will great posts as always, thanks for that!

Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for the discussion!

 

[Skills]

Hey,

Any advice for a situation of LTR of 7 years gone sour? (I know – another relationship attraction drop timeframe.)
We are not living together currently. I am 40, she is 34. But surely are sharing some logistics still.
I would be up to move things forward but only with an enthusiastic loving girlfriend. I don't want to swim upstream too much, either.
But I am willing to put in some work. For myself 1st, too. I know I have ways I could level up surely in my ways. And I have my own shit I have to own. I know I should have solved any problems earlier and not let things go so far.

We both have felt the relationship become more stale (daily life struggles), and we becoming more distant.

I must have seen it coming, she has been reading Esther Perel's books for a year now.

She didn't want to bring up anything herself nor to break up (yet?), but when I said things have feeling off and when I pressed, she said things like:

She has started to think that maybe we are not compatible enough. (We've had our arguments, I agree.)
I must have been fed up with her shit tests of being annoyed about some of my daily habits.
Like she never doubted the core of it until now but now the thought has started to creep in.
And that she's been unhappy for some time. Like enough has built up.

I don't make her feel desired and womanly enough. Not enough dates or compliments. Or that we haven't sufficiently learned each other's love languages enough.

(She still wants to hang out a lot and is complaining that we haven't done it enough).

(She has started to go out more and said she was stunned at how much attention she got).
(She has asked me to go along most of the time, but I don't have as much desire to party until wee hours.)
She has also suddenly started to share more on social media. Not so much about herself but some. But still a visible change as she was very private and didn't share much at all usually.

She is not sure anymore whether we can work it out. Like she wants to but is not sure either or how, bla bla. But she doesn't want to break up either (or so she says). She just doesn't know, bla bla.
(Open communication has never been her strong side.)

She knows I love her and appreciate her, and she loves and cares for me. But she doesn't know. Bla bla.
But she knows I am her dream man BUT she doesn't know bla bla. Super wishy washy.

Technically I didn't get the ILYBINILWY speech ("I love you but I'm not in love with you") (yet?), but she might as well say it given how she acts often lately. Surely, it seems to be the case that she 100% is not getting her feelz with me (right now or any more).
She did mention that she doesn't want to lose me a friend bla bla. So that kinda ringed the old bell and alarm in me.

I asked where she would see herself in 5 years. She said living in a country side doing her thing.
It's my dream too. But ofc only with a LTR that is enthusiastic with me not like this.

She brought out several things like about how she's been unhappy with me. (When I pressed of course). My work, house cleanliness. How I have not gone out with her or visited her friends enough. (I still have; I think it's partly true but partly excuses). I just don't want to party as much nor get drunk as often. And I think she shouldn't either as much as we used to. She is not 27 any more when we met. I still think we have done it more than most people should.

I know I pressed, but it kind of made me feel guilty suddenly of not doing enough.
I guess she can be right in some ways but also I have done enough I think.
And I have taken care of her a lot. And she knows it and admits it.

And she did admit she has been difficult too.

Sex has also become rare and not passionate enough. Has been for a while also. That's also partly why I started to invest less.
Of course, now I also used to be sick for several weeks, so no wonder. But it has gone on longer of course.

Her best friend just recently broke up from her 4 years of LTR and is experiencing an NRE with someone new. So that also could be a contributing factor. They also go out a lot and spend time together. I have been asked to come along but I just haven't wanted to do that too much or been able to.

What should I do? Ideally, I would like to mend things with her and find a way to go back to when we were more passionate about each other.

Or is this stage too late and I should I just break up with her?

Or is there some dread I should still apply before?

Of course, this comes at a shitty time for me, when I have just been really busy with a work project for a few months straight and then sick for 3 weeks, not able to train/work out, and just generally feeling lower. I kind of noticed how she didn't really come to take care of me as she usually would. But these things always tend to go that way – I know when shit hits the fan, it doesn't do usually do it in a convenient time.

She still asked me to come over today and cooked for me, she kissed and cuddled etc.

So I guess not 100% it's lost, but it's undoubtedly is in very shaky ground.

It seems the dynamic is changing, and she is a bit checking out..... 7 years it is a long time, most people can't make it 7 months or some dudes even 7 days... Sometimes the goals change during the time, in other words the original relationship goals for both of you may have changed, this usually happens more on women, women change a lot through the years (women go through a lot of life changes)..... We men pretty much don't change much we are the same through life compare to women.... She has not reached yet the point of no returned (i called it a breaking point).... My diagnosis she is in that stage of in but checking out, and exploring other options (not cheating per se) but the what if i was with_____ ..... What do you want and make sure is not cause you feel force, sometimes towards the end we try to do things we do not want to do in order to save it...... now that 33 plus age is when women start major life changes and seek a lot of progression (marriage, kids, house together etc...) check out my post and resources on here...

 

[POB]

Take a break from her (I know, it's hard).
Say you will let her think things through alone, and what happens happens.
Make it very clear that you will always cherish everything you guys shared up until that point, but you too need time to figure things on your own. Be very gentle and caring...say the relationship is not working as it is now and that you both deserve more.
If in the future you really decide to be together, it's gonna happen no matter what.
Start no contact for 6 months.
Chances are she will test the waters, get frustrated with the current landscape, and come back to you.
(Also in those 6 months, work HARD on yourself...time to take the dust off your old plans)

 

[BIGGUS DICKUS: PUSSY MAN]

She's 34 - are you planning to have kids at any point? Are your goals for the future still compatible? You're both at a point in life where people have typically defined themselves and set up their lives for the long haul. Not everyone needs or wants to do that, but she might have expectations of you being more established, certain, and secure. And that can make her question 'who am I setting up my life with?'

Regarding fixing things up, this is one of those situations you can't deal with directly. You can't go and say some words or do some thing that will magically put everything where it needs to be. Loss of attraction in relationships usually happens from slow realizations that dawn over months or years, that cannot be turned around from one day to the next.

And because of this, guys usually start chasing and getting needy, because they can't bear to continue to feel things slipping away in a way that they cannot immediately respond to, even if, because of the momentum that has built up, there's no way to avoid that happening for some time before they can turn around.

My strategy for dealing with these kinds of positions is:

- Don't react
- Use the emotional energy from the situation instead to accelerate my general progress in life and self-development
- Figure out what I have done that has contributed to the problem and start fixing that (even if it will take a long time)
- Let her be the main one who tries to 'do things' to fix the relationship directly - with an attitude of 'I like her but if she goes she goes, and for the right reasons too'

In a way, this response is similar as if you had a breakup - you end up alone, with a bunch of clarity about the dumb shit you've done, a lot of emotional energy to dump, and so you just start attacking life as a lone soldier again the way it was before she arrived.

The powerful thing is to do this while you still haven't broken up - it shows that you are taking initiative and responsibility for your own life and mistakes, without chasing her or blaming her or victimizing yourself from her actions or needing her approval, or doing it for her at all - you don't seem to worry too much if she even hangs around at all. And if that doesn't stir a woman up nothing will. Ideally she then comes to you trying to 'talk it over' and 'figure things out' and generally negotiate while you just sit there dealing with her as if she's only one non-critical part of your life success story.

@Will_V

This is a really great response and it puts a lot of things into perspective for me

So my question for you would be:

Should women ever be a big meaningful part of our lives?

Because by what your saying it seems to be way healthier to just treat them as a complimentary part of our lives, not a major piece

I just hear the media selling true love stories and I’m wondering now, is detachment the answer all along?

 

[Will_V]

@Will_V

This is a really great response and it puts a lot of things into perspective for me

So my question for you would be:

Should women ever be a big meaningful part of our lives?

There's a few different things going on here. First of all this particular situation involves a loss of excitement, attraction, and quite possibly even respect, over a substantial period of time. It's not a position that things should be allowed to get into in the first place.

We don't know:

- What the 7 years of relationship looked like - did it evolve and develop or just stay in the same spot?
- What things he might have done - or not done - that might have resulted in her losing respect for him. She may well have had some idea of who he would be in 5-10 years that he did not live up to.
- What her dreams and plans are for the long term and how well he has positioned himself to fulfill them (or with what kind of frame he might have attempted to replace them with his own perspective).
- How well he fulfills her day to day needs so that she feels actualized and content.
- How good a quality of woman she is and what baggage she might be bringing

All we have here is a very long period of time at the end of which she is clearly not satisfied. During that time all sorts of things might have happened to her initial view of him.

The reason why I talk about pulling back is because regardless of why this has happened, the answer is never, ever to chase, even though it's what we instinctively want to do. It's the same as being in an aircraft that's stalling, we desperately want to pull the nose up but that's exactly what will seal our fate. So you just have to push that nose down and run it out hoping there was enough potential energy that you can convert into lift to save you.

The way I see it, when you're in a relationship and you realize you are in a stall situation, you have to let the nose drop and convert any underlying respect and attraction she has for you into excitement, uncertainty, and submission. And you do that by risking the very thing you're trying to avoid - her walking away. And maybe she'll do that and you won't be able to stop it. But if you do save it, and she submits to you again, you have another window of opportunity to steer things properly, with the right level of drive and energy, in the direction you wanted it to go in the first place.

But if you try to chase and placate her, it will probably feel like things are improving - after all, when you pull the nose up of a stalling plane it usually does come up for a little while before you spiral out of control - but in the end you will go down even faster and with less of an opportunity to fix what is actually wrong.

Because by what your saying it seems to be way healthier to just treat them as a complimentary part of our lives, not a major piece

I just hear the media selling true love stories and I’m wondering now, is detachment the answer all along?

This is kind of a separate thing, although it is related.

When it comes to relationships, I believe in being strategic and focusing in every possible way on a good foundation. That means:

1. Choosing a girl with a good upbringing - this is the most important thing by miles. Are her parents still together? Does she have a good relationship with them? Is there the kind of dynamic between her mother and father that you want to have with her? Good sibling relationships?
2. Making sure she lives in a social framework that supports what you want - are her friends and social groups a good influence? Does she typically go to social events and gatherings with the kind of people you want her to be? Does she listen to media or read books that promote good feminine values?
3. Make sure she's either well-educated or lives in a family of generally well-educated people - such people tend to be much more careful and diligent in general and raise their kids that way.
4. Does she want the same things you want - if you want kids, does she? If you want a housewife, does she value being that for you? Do you have the same general set of principles and values - or at least she does not have wildly divergent and strongly-held ones?
5. Does she click with you? Does she instinctively feel understood around you, do you speak to eachother at a subconscious level? I believe that this is necessary for long term relationships and cannot really be manufactured.

In my opinion the above makes up about 80% of a successful relationship. The remaining 20% doesn't sound like much but it becomes extremely valuable in difficult times - and that is, how strong is your frame and how good are you at leading, inspiring, and managing both yourself and her for the benefit of the relationship? How good of a captain are you? There will inevitably be times when this - or lack thereof - will approach being 100% responsible for the outcome of things.

There is another huge thing, and that is: are you as successful in life as she expects you to be? I didn't mention this specifically because I believe it comes down to compatibility of values - some women are brought up expecting the men around them to be uber successful, other women would be happy to sell everything, buy a boat and sail the world with you. Still others prefer the typical suburbanite lifestyle where you both gossip about what happened at your middle class jobs at the end of the day, watch netflix and go to couples gatherings, and pack your two and a half kids into your Ford Explorer on the weekend to go camping at some council-approved area with loads of other families that look just like you - just don't expect your wife to look like a model at 40+!

Now after all this talk about strategy - is there room for 'true love' with a woman who is a 'major piece' of your life? Well, that depends on how much of it is an illusion that covers up something else about yourself you don't want to know about. There's certainly always room for romance in women's lives - a lot more than most men think, and it doesn't just go away at some point. But I don't really think there's any way you can dote on a woman in a way that's more of an investment than most of the other important things in your life, and get away with it. At least, if that kind of relationship exists, I haven't really seen it up close and it certainly wouldn't fit me very well. And when I see behavior of that sort it is typically a sort of escapism for the man from knowing his true position in life - and what sort of woman is impressed by that?

I do believe that love exists, and that it can be enjoyed for a long time, but it has to be handled and nurtured in a way that satisfies its primary need - which is to have respect for its object.

 

[POB]

@Will_VSo my question for you would be:

Should women ever be a big meaningful part of our lives?

I'll rephrase it:
"Should women NEVER be a big meaningful part of our lives?"

Let that sink in for a moment...

 

[TomInHo]

I'll keep it short and sweet. She is BORED

7 years with no progression towards anything is a little extreme, and it sounds like your relationship suffering from lack of growth.

 

[memoboy]

Thanks for all the feedback.

It's now two weeks since the "soft breakup." I told her that if she "doesn't know what she wants or if she doesn't know if she wants to work on it/us", then I can make it easy for her, and I have completely backed off since then. I was polite and friendly still.

Since then, I have been working on myself, mainly going to the gym and doing masculine stuff. Other girls have been messaging me, but I haven't had time to go out as I've been very busy with moving and work. But I will have more time next week and onwards.

We haven't had this long radio silence between us ever during our seven years together (when I don't count the courting phase). She's been now quite religiously liking my social media activity, tho, and she once called, being soft and saying that she doesn't want it to be final, and from her part, it would not be over, and she'd like to talk. I haven't heard from here since then again for almost a week. I'm not sure if she wants to friendzone me.

During these two weeks, my emotions have been up and down and a bit all over the place. Sometimes, I feel strong, motivated, free, and liberated. And other times, I am missing the LTR and feel like shit. I guess that's normal to have these mixed feelings right now.

 

[Beck Bass]

Sometimes, I feel strong, motivated, free, and liberated. And other times, I am missing the LTR and feel like shit. I guess that's normal to have these mixed feelings right now

Very normal, I can't even imagine what it's like to be seven years with a girl, but just being a bit of over two with my girl made me feel crazy shit...

She's been now quite religiously liking my social media activity, tho, and she once called, being soft and saying that she doesn't want it to be final

Sounds good for you, but you have to remember why you're breaking up as well... I mean she was the one initiating, but you gotta hold her accountable for what she said and done, and know what's gonna change for you two to work out. Because if things just stay the same, you're gonna run over the same problems over and over again... (obvious stuff, but we always wanna be optimistic on relationships, if we like the person, we think we can always make it workout somehow, even if we can't quite)

If I was you, I would focus hard on yourself and getting new prospects, meeting new girls. Only really see her again and discuss things if you really think she changed her mindset and you can make the changes necessary, otherwise it's just a waste of time and your feelings (for both of you) are gonna be even more messed up, long term. But who am I to say this, I make dumb mistakes with my girl all the time

 

[Skills]

Thanks for all the feedback.

It's now two weeks since the "soft breakup." I told her that if she "doesn't know what she wants or if she doesn't know if she wants to work on it/us", then I can make it easy for her, and I have completely backed off since then. I was polite and friendly still.

Since then, I have been working on myself, mainly going to the gym and doing masculine stuff. Other girls have been messaging me, but I haven't had time to go out as I've been very busy with moving and work. But I will have more time next week and onwards.

We haven't had this long radio silence between us ever during our seven years together (when I don't count the courting phase). She's been now quite religiously liking my social media activity, tho, and she once called, being soft and saying that she doesn't want it to be final, and from her part, it would not be over, and she'd like to talk. I haven't heard from here since then again for almost a week. I'm not sure if she wants to friendzone me.

During these two weeks, my emotions have been up and down and a bit all over the place. Sometimes, I feel strong, motivated, free, and liberated. And other times, I am missing the LTR and feel like shit. I guess that's normal to have these mixed feelings right now.

Your emotions are normal and they may get worst, and you will be sad and depress is normal.... But you need to cut all contact please, take her out of your social media please is not healthy, cut all contact for good.... If not what you are doing is prolonging the paying, sticking around as consolation price second choice, security blanket... There is no soft break up you are done....Soft break up does not work and is cuck territory tbh...

 

[memoboy]

You're right. Well, technically we didn't break up (yet). She had been distant. I asked what was up. I wasn't really prepared for the talk to go that way but she suddenly burst out and laid all the blame on me for how she's been unhappy. She didn't want to break up with me (yet) but yeah, she wasn't sure what to do either as the feels were off. So, I backed off completely and focused on myself. She has called twice since. I've kept it brief.

I most likely need to see her next week for some final logistics. I need to get my house key back among other things. I'm not gonna be too childish to cut contacts for now before that. It's also not 100% easy to do as we share a lot of friends. She also asked to talk on our last call, as she said she doesn't want it to be over from her part. I'll see what (or if) she has to say.

As she said she would like to feel a bit better for the talk (she was sick this week) as I was a week before. But I just saw she is out for Halloween, so I guess sickness didn't hinder that... So yeah, I do feel like a simp now
Maybe I needed that. I can see it's the playing games stadium now.

I do recognize it's an option I can and would maybe need to take (soon). Anyway, I don't care anymore after today.

I've gone through this before, I know I'll be fine (or better) on the other side. And I'll be already much better as soon as I have time to be out socializing which I will have time to do next week.

I do feel like shit right now as I didn't go out for Halloween, even though I had some interesting invitations, but I had to move apartment this weekend. And yeah, she is out with friends and having fun. But I probably needed to see that, to wake me up from my delusions.

 

[POB]

During these two weeks, my emotions have been up and down and a bit all over the place. Sometimes, I feel strong, motivated, free, and liberated. And other times, I am missing the LTR and feel like shit. I guess that's normal to have these mixed feelings right now.

Six months minimum man, to clear your head and emotions.
If you need to go monk mode, pls do.
Girls can be an unnecessary distraction in this phase
Take the pain and use it to focus on the new you.

I too faced a break-up earlier this year...we were together for 4 years and it sucked big!
But now I'm dating new girls and comfortable navigating singlehood again.
That shitstorm of emotions will pass, just give it time.

Hint: If you can (and like), do dance lessons!!!
They helped me a lot to break out of the shell, build a new social circle and get fresh friends to go out with me.
And right now I'm getting invitations to go out to dance from girls all over the place.

 

[POB]

You're right. Well, technically we didn't break up (yet). She had been distant. I asked what was up. I wasn't really prepared for the talk to go that way but she suddenly burst out and laid all the blame on me for how she's been unhappy. She didn't want to break up with me (yet) but yeah, she wasn't sure what to do either as the feels were off. So, I backed off completely and focused on myself. She has called twice since. I've kept it brief.

This is why you go no contact.
We all know most women have no accountability for their own decisions.

I most likely need to see her next week for some final logistics. I need to get my house key back among other things. I'm not gonna be too childish to cut contacts for now before that. It's also not 100% easy to do as we share a lot of friends.

Cut contact with shared friends too!!!
Take the loss and move on.

She also asked to talk on our last call, as she said she doesn't want it to be over from her part. I'll see what (or if) she has to say.

As she said she would like to feel a bit better for the talk (she was sick this week) as I was a week before. But I just saw she is out for Halloween, so I guess sickness didn't hinder that... So yeah, I do feel like a simp now
Maybe I needed that. I can see it's the playing games stadium now.

Cut contact, talk only for logistics.
U need to give it time.

I do recognize it's an option I can and would maybe need to take (soon). Anyway, I don't care anymore after today.

I've gone through this before, I know I'll be fine (or better) on the other side. And I'll be already much better as soon as I have time to be out socializing which I will have time to do next week.

Great.

I do feel like shit right now as I didn't go out for Halloween, even though I had some interesting invitations, but I had to move apartment this weekend. And yeah, she is out with friends and having fun. But I probably needed to see that, to wake me up from my delusions.

Cut social media, you need to move on.