FR My attainability game needs massive work

[Kaida]

https://imgur.com/a/Nsql2Sd

Pic 1:

Spoiler: Pic 1

Her story post said “I need a sneaky link. Dm to apply for position” I thought this was a great opportunity to flip the frame and get her qualifying to me. my screening and qualifying was sloppy lol

Pic 2:

Spoiler: Pic 2

“please don’t say doing hair” was meant as a joke because a lot of girls my age do hair and it was getting repetitive. Ended up not landing and being taken serious, but since she qualified anyway it increases investment anyway. Still felt a lil negative I dont like doing that.

Wanted to reward her compliance with a voice message
First VM: “Aye I like athletic girls, my ex was an athlete. You said u run a business? wassup with that, what do u do?”

Second vm: (sensing convo was lacking flirtation) “pleeease dont tell me you’re going to run your hands through my hair when we meet”

Pic 3:

Spoiler: Pic 3

I always ask for numbers even if its on insta because to me it’s the equivalent of “moving” a girl - you get that extra commitment to an interaction with you because she transferred platforms just to talk to you.

I feel like I responded to her resistance really well:

VM: “ *Chuckle* I know neither of us wanna use instagram facetime, and it’s not like Ima use your number and get your social security or something

VM2: I’ll send mine first if it makes you feel better alright (I really hit the paternal tone on this)

Pic 4:

Spoiler: Pic 4

This was the first sign of where my attainability was. I went through all that texting and thought it was obvious that after she saved my number we’d wait until tomorrow cuz it was late.

I liked her message and went to sleep, only to find out she texted that I “lost her already” like 20 minutes later after I liked it.

I feel like I responded to this really well tho:

VM: *Chuckle* Yeah i feel you i feel you. I just went to bed. I probably should have told you that last night. I’ll make it up to you. If you still down for it I’ll call you later tonight.

the new imessage update made it weird to send vms, so the way I did the vm unexpectedly showed my address. not intentional but that stupid mistake probably humanized me a bit and increased attainability as well.

Pic 5:

Spoiler: Pic 5

Resistance sidestepped! Now onto the facetime call
———————————
The facetime was maybe a 6/10. Awkward pauses were minimal, and conversation was alright. Threw a little chase frame in there about my address - “Please dont appear in my window” - that she accepted and said that she might. Pretty light conversation. She even teased me about a hot dog flavored popsicle and said it was my favorite flavor. She was funny I liked her.

Screened her some more, she qualified, I qualified her by saying she was cooler than I thought.

I asked her out by asking her what she was doing saturday, and she said she was doing something so I said how about sunday and she said she dont go out on sunday. Something about planning it later came up and she said “I dont mind waiting too long, I’m not eager to meet people.”

I was probably too pushy with the date, I shouldve asked for the days she was free instead - damn. I even suggested that she sneak out and she balked a little at that so I quickly dropped it. Mistakes probably were a 4-5/10 when it comes to how bad they were.

Towards the end she was doing this weird thing where she would take a long pause after I say something and just kept asking me to repeat myself because “her head hurt”. Up to 3 times at one point lol. May be an attainability issue idk wtf that was

Ended up not securing a date. Told her to let me know her schedule when shes ready so I can see if it fits and she flipped it around saying I should let her know mine (basically saying I should text first)

————————————————-

May or may not have effected the outcome, but during those two days I didnt talk to her I posted my game win, my team celebrating and stuff, us getting on the local news too which was a big deal for our team. I didn’t do it specifically for her but after thinking a bit and looking at instagram I realize she saw the posts. Might have inflated my value way too much again ??‍

After waiting 2 days I voice messaged her basically giving her some info about my day and asking how her day went, and whoop-de-doo she left me on read.

VM: “Yo wsg, how have you been i just came back from my friend she made some nice biscuits, how has your weekend been?

Probably showcased way too much value lol blew her ass out. I seriously need to work on attainability, I keep ignoring whats in front of me by accident and keep dialing up the value and slashing my investment until its too late.

What do you think I should do to help her feel like I like her?

**“Today” is Saturday by the way in the picture. I had school and a game all friday so couldnt text her friday, and earlier saturday didnt feel right.**

What can I do to increase my attainability again? (If thats even the problem)

 

[Lushie]

I don't think it's attainability issue. Seems like she wasn't hooked. Also it didn't seem like you actually made a connection with her.

When she brought up her hobbies and what she does, you could've deep dived her here. Display some relatability, reality pace, we-frames, etc. Remember girls love it when guys can understand them and their world. It keeps you standing apart from the rest.

The way she probably see you was "okay this guy has dated a girl of my caliber (even this could be a reach but let's say it's not) and he's sorta fun to talk to" -- and that's it.

Hence why when you moved her to getting her number she was hesitant. Eventually you convinced her but that doesn't mean she's sold on you, it just meant she's giving you another chance. Which then goes to your phone call and as it turns out from your response. She wasn't totally sold on you. And goes down here from here. Nothing to do with your value and her thinking you're too much for her.

Disclaimer: I am still a beginner so you can take this with a grain salt.

 

[Kaida]

I don't think it's attainability issue. Seems like she wasn't hooked. Also it didn't seem like you actually made a connection with her.

When she brought up her hobbies and what she does, you could've deep dived her here. Display some relatability, reality pace, we-frames, etc. Remember girls love it when guys can understand them and their world. It keeps you standing apart from the rest.

The way she probably see you was "okay this guy has dated a girl of my caliber (even this could be a reach but let's say it's not) and he's sorta fun to talk to" -- and that's it.

Hence why when you moved her to getting her number she was hesitant. Eventually you convinced her but that doesn't mean she's sold on you, it just meant she's giving you another chance. Which then goes to your phone call and as it turns out from your response. She wasn't totally sold on you. And goes down here from here. Nothing to do with your value and her thinking you're too much for her.

Disclaimer: I am still a beginner so you can take this with a grain salt.

Thanks for your input man.

I’m fairly sure she liked me, nobody qualifies as much as she did and just not like me. I made it obvious the fact that I was screening her too so she complied with the frame. I’m fairly sure it’s an attainability problem, but if someone has the knowledge to correct me I’ll accept it.

Hence why when you moved her to getting her number she was hesitant. Eventually you convinced her but that doesn't mean she's sold on you, it just meant she's giving you another chance.

This is not true. In fact, me getting past her resistance would only increase her attraction for me because of how dominant it was, I controlled the frame and changed her perception of giving her number to a stranger.

It’s not “another chance” because that would be framing her as a princess giving out rare slices of her time to the men who want to talk to her.

When she brought up her hobbies and what she does, you could've deep dived her here. Display some relatability, reality pace, we-frames, etc. Remember girls love it when guys can understand them and their world. It keeps you standing apart from the rest.

This was probably the key I was missing honestly. I just needed to create more of a we frame and feeling of togetherness.

You’re right, I shouldve deep dived during the facetime call(Deep diving through text is weird ). Honestly I need practice on that - I’ve never done that sucessfully yet. I wanted to keep the courtship light and flirt a bit but that ended up taking over the whole thing and didnt give enough high-fidelity signs of interest.

 

[Lobo]

Nice report. I've never been sure what the value of a facetime is.

Lots of guys do it, so its a little basic

It saturates you, making her get used to you. Ie, very easy to lose interest.

Like above, you lose a lot of mystery, which is something you'd want in place for her to come out.

Not building compliance. She facetimes every other guy too, so its a small ask. Unless you are getting her to do special shit for you on the call, i think there are better ways to build compliance.

All this without the actual ability to escalate on her in the call. I believe the ft made it harder for you to get her out. Just seems like a lot of effort for minimal results.

 

[Beck Bass]

It saturates you, making her get used to you. Ie, very easy to lose interest.

Like above, you lose a lot of mystery, which is something you'd want in place for her to come out.

Not building compliance. She facetimes every other guy too, so its a small ask. Unless you are getting her to do special shit for you on the call, i think there are better ways to build compliance.

Yeah, too many voice messages and the girl hasn't sent him any. Maybe you wanna dial back on that a little bit @Kaiderman.
To me it looks like you're chasing quite a bit. Like ok, she answered with a bunch of rappers she likes, but that's about it.
You were the one starting a convo out of the blue with the whole inquisitor vibe... But then it kinda turned into nothing I think.

I get a feeling you don't really know this girl irl and is trying to get a date randomly just off her IG (otherwise, if she was a girl you approached and hooked, you would have her number, right?)... Which can be done, but it's low odds. I myself don't go for it, but I have friends that have suceeded in it. It's a slow ass game, you need to be reacting to her crap, she at leasts likes your reactions, than maybe you escalate to a text response, like you did, I suppose, and if she responds well to that you keep the convo going. But still, you're hoping for some random text conversation throught the internet to turn into a date, and this is very rare, most girls will avoid going out with people they don't know, most of the time. You can't really flirt effectively through text as well...

But your texts clearly seemed to be lacking a bit of direction there anyway. If you're going for this "slowly building rapport so maybe I go out with her", you have to do it... Slowly. Trying to get her number right away, when you're already texting her pretty much on the same way you would do with her number, it's a bit of a silly move. You're asking for compliance just for the hell of it, and she didn't give you much signs she's into you (girls will text just for the hell of it, like any random person that comes and asks her what her favorite whatever is, she's probably gonna text back, it doesn't really much). I would say keep on trying to build rapport slowly and eventually maybe ask her out, when you sense she's more open to it (it really is low odds though, if this girl never seem you irl, of course that depends on your convo and your IG profile, but you're much better off approaching irl of course). This can be like a terciary funnel (cold approach/social circle being first, online - like actual dating apps - being second), but don't really focus on that (I'm assuming you were cold texting her on IG, but even if you saw her briefly on person and she didn't quite hook and just gave you the IG, it's not very different).
Again I wanna say that you don't really need the number to close, it's better to have, of course, but I've got laid before with girls that I only texted on IG (it was cold approach though and they gave me their IG pretty much they would have given a phone number).

Again, as @Lushie and @Lobo said, not a compliance issue at all, more like calibration and trying to get results too fast out of an interaction that isn't going all that well. I didn't mean to be harsh, and if I got anything wrong please correct me @Kaiderman. Good luck!

 

[Kaida]

Yeah, too many voice messages and the girl hasn't sent him any. Maybe you wanna dial back on that a little bit @Kaiderman.
To me it looks like you're chasing quite a bit. Like ok, she answered with a bunch of rappers she likes, but that's about it.
You were the one starting a convo out of the blue with the whole inquisitor vibe... But then it kinda turned into nothing I think.

I get a feeling you don't really know this girl irl and is trying to get a date randomly just off her IG (otherwise, if she was a girl you approached and hooked, you would have her number, right?)...

Yeah, you’re right. She posted on her story about wanting a “sneaky link” which basically means she wants someone to fuck on the low and I swiped up asking her to qualify. The fact that she complied to being screened as a fuckbuddy made me see it as a sign of interest.

Again, as @Lushie and @Lobo said, not a compliance issue at all, more like calibration and trying to get results too fast out of an interaction that isn't going all that well. I didn't mean to be harsh, and if I got anything wrong please correct me @Kaiderman. Good luck!

Yeah true. I forget sometimes that you need different strategies for different avenues of game. I be using the same cold approach game for everything and it messes me up sometimes, even social circle. Thanks for your input man!

 

[Will_V]

Well done on presenting something to get feedback on!

Yeah like others have said you qualified her at first but from then on you were investing way more than she did (you're double/triple texting, hearting her responses, sending voice messages). She sounds like she was ready for something a bit stronger, more teases and having her qualify herself. You can see both times you asked her about herself she gave lengthy invested responses, but then you'd switch back to being far too easy on her rather than using her response as a way to connect/cold read.

For example when she tells you her favorite rappers, you immediately just tell her what you like and then ask another question. Instead, comment on her response: 'oh sounds like you're an X girl' 'You like them X then' etc. That gives her a chance to see that you are thoughtful about her responses and trying to get a better understanding of who she is, rather than just firing questions while you try to figure out how to close the deal. Always when a girl gives a solid response, comment on it.

The point where you double voice messaged, you can see she replied with 'hmmm' right after, that's clear lack of investment. Let's see what they were about. The first voicemail in that double was a bit apologetic/excusing with a joke about her social security (way too much release of tension, plus a little awkwardness) and then it's followed up with you offering your details first. That wasn't such a bad idea in itself but you can see that you're retreating to this place of comforting her and making it easy for her when really you should be teasing and finding out about her, qualifying her and building rapport, and building her anticipation so that when you do ask for investment it's more like 'mm ok let's see if you measure up' rather than 'I know you're uncomfortable, let me make it easy for you'.

The problem here was too much attainability, not too little. You're too worried about losing her, and this is increasing your attainability way too much.

Attainability is best built through familiarity, connection and rapport, not by finding the right way to ask her to comply. Once she feels comfortable playing around with you, she won't be worried any more about giving you what you want.

 

[Rakehell]

@Kaiderman I like how you transitioned from ig by getting her number. I do that too.

Overall though I think she was interested but the texting was a bit boring so she phased out.
It’s good to qualify girls, you seem to lean on doing that alot. But I think it was too surface level, asking if she does something, saying you like that, then immediately asking a different nonrelated question. It’s still qualifying, but not really because she’s just telling you her interests.

A better way is to ask WHY she likes doing the thing, this way she has to think of legit reasons to impress you. Thats qualifying imo.

Also she gave you alot of things to work with, she was definitely open to talking to you. But I feel since she gave you so much you wanted to address everything she told you about herself at once, instead of picking one thread of conversation to lead with.

Target: “ I play basketball i'm finna run track again i work at and run a small business and i sing and dance”

At this point instead of qualifying her on what she does all at once. You want to lead the conversation forward with one thing, and get her to tell you about why she does the thing.

You almost started this by specifically mentioning her being an athlete, but you never mentioned why you like athletes or how it applies to her. So its not really qualifying you see? Instead of getting her to explain more, you changed topics all too quickly.

You: “A dancer? What kind of dancing?”

Ideally she’d tell you what kind of dancing she does. You’d ask what got her into it, if she was the kid who’d get forced into dancing at family cookouts?

Ideally she’d tell you what got her into it and why she likes doing it.

Then you’d qualify her by telling her why you like that she’s a dancer.

Afterward youd lead the conversation forward with dance related stuff instead of switching topics.

Also I feel like your texting has a lack of flirtiness. Focusing on rapport too much can be equally as boring and should be evened out with sexuality. I’d even lean on being more sexual over getting to know her. If you’d like I can post some examples.

 

[Kaida]

Thank you guys so much. I love all the constructive criticism, keep it coming!

@Will_V

Yeah like others have said you qualified her at first but from then on you were investing way more than she did (you're double/triple texting, hearting her responses, sending voice messages). She sounds like she was ready for something a bit stronger, more teases and having her qualify herself.

The reason I did that was because in the past I lost a lot of girls due to not rewarding their investments and being low attainability, I guess now I overcorrected and am rewarding way too much. A necessary step in getting the balance right tho

I used voice messages to get my humor across easier and to make me more trustworthy. They look super large and high effort on instagram with how big they look, which is one of the reasons I switch to imessage. On imessage you can say a whole lot but it’ll visually look like a small message compared to hers if she’s typing.

You can see both times you asked her about herself she gave lengthy invested responses, but then you'd switch back to being far too easy on her rather than using her response as a way to connect/cold read.

Ahhh okay

For example when she tells you her favorite rappers, you immediately just tell her what you like and then ask another question. Instead, comment on her response: 'oh sounds like you're an X girl' 'You like them X then' etc. That gives her a chance to see that you are thoughtful about her responses and trying to get a better understanding of who she is, rather than just firing questions while you try to figure out how to close the deal. Always when a girl gives a solid response, comment on it.

Yeah, my screening probably did nothing to make her feel like I know her better. This way is much better for building attainability. I thought having good attainability meant dialing down your “challenge” based on the specific girl.

But I’m assuming from these responses that my “challenge level” should be high and the same with every girl, and attainability should be made by building connections of varying strength based on the girl. Correct?

The first voicemail in that double was a bit apologetic/excusing with a joke about her social security (way too much release of tension, plus a little awkwardness) and then it's followed up with you offering your details first. That wasn't such a bad idea in itself but you can see that you're retreating to this place of comforting her and making it easy for her when really you should be teasing and finding out about her, qualifying her and building rapport, and building her anticipation so that when you do ask for investment it's more like 'mm ok let's see if you measure up' rather than 'I know you're uncomfortable, let me make it easy for you'.

Ohh okay. So instead of just asking for a lot of little compliance to build up, I should build up anticipation and verbal compliance and teasing first and then lead it all up to some kind of physical compliance, is that what you’re saying?

The problem here was too much attainability, not too little. You're too worried about losing her, and this is increasing your attainability way too much.

Whats the best way to communicate that I dont care about losing her? Will it just leak through my behavior or are there specific things I can do

Attainability is best built through familiarity, connection and rapport, not by finding the right way to ask her to comply. Once she feels comfortable playing around with you, she won't be worried any more about giving you what you want.

How would you have gotten past her resistance then? I think my way of doing it releases too much tension like you said. And it’s not like I could really punish without removing all my attention


@Rakehell

Overall though I think she was interested but the texting was a bit boring so she phased out.
It’s good to qualify girls, you seem to lean on doing that alot. But I think it was too surface level, asking if she does something, saying you like that, then immediately asking a different nonrelated question. It’s still qualifying, but not really because she’s just telling you her interests.

A better way is to ask WHY she likes doing the thing, this way she has to think of legit reasons to impress you. Thats qualifying imo.

Also she gave you alot of things to work with, she was definitely open to talking to you. But I feel since she gave you so much you wanted to address everything she told you about herself at once, instead of picking one thread of conversation to lead with.

Ahh you got it. I was trying to address the whole thing, I was thinking it would dismiss all the other things she said if I chose one thread, that worked against me I guess. I should be using the other things she said as threads to refer back to later right?

You almost started this by specifically mentioning her being an athlete, but you never mentioned why you like athletes or how it applies to her. You almost started this by specifically mentioning her being an athlete, but you never mentioned why you like athletes or how it applies to her. So its not really qualifying you see? Instead of getting her to explain more, you changed topics all too quickly.

Oh okay. You explained the correct way of screening. How would the correct way of qualifying be?

Also I feel like your texting has a lack of flirtiness. Focusing on rapport too much can be equally as boring and should be evened out with sexuality. I’d even lean on being more sexual over getting to know her. If you’d like I can post some examples.

Me too man I feel the same thing. I need to integrate more sexuality in general. I would love to see those examples if you can!

Summary of both: Be more of an asshole, add more depth to your screening, improve and increase teasing and flirtation

Is there anything experimental I can text to turn it around and use these new techniques?

 

[Rakehell]

Ahh you got it. I was trying to address the whole thing, I was thinking it would dismiss all the other things she said if I chose one thread, that worked against me I guess. I should be using the other things she said as threads to refer back to later right?

Precisely, if you address everything all at once you’ll leave less stuff for you to talk about later. Where as if you address one thing you could use that topic to branch out onto related subtopics, leading it toward more beneficial frames using your creativity.

Dancing > Art > Emotions > Connections > Intimacy. Then once you’ve exhausted that topic you can always call back on other stuff. “So you have your own business too?”

My subtopics are just for examples sake, obviously youd wanna talk about stuff that you both can speak on.

Oh okay. You explained the correct way of screening. How would the correct way of qualifying be?

My definition of qualifying may not be the same as others. For me qualifying can be a couple things.

Her verbalizing that she fits your standards.
You verbalizing that you approve of her/ or that she fits your standards

You can qualify her indirectly, like you did by telling her your ex was an athlete. Or you can qualify her directly by resonating with her experience.

Her: Yes I love basketball, I started when I was a kid. My dad would make me shoot free throws every day after school, and I hated it but it made me better. I used to be pretty terrible but the longer I played the better i’ve gotten.

You: I think it’s really cool you stuck with it that long, most people would quit once they found out they weren’t as good as they’d hoped. I try to only surround myself with people who can ride things out without quitting.

You can also make her qualify to you by pushing her away playfully.

You: I don’t think we could work, we’re both too strong we’d just fight all the time.

Her: I can actually be alot softer

(I’ve also gotten how fighting can be a good thing)

I’ll dig up some samples and dm them to you on sexualizing stuff.

 

[Kaida]

Precisely, if you address everything all at once you’ll leave less stuff for you to talk about later. Where as if you address one thing you could use that topic to branch out onto related subtopics, leading it toward more beneficial frames using your creativity.

Ah so the whole point of conversation is to use each topic to set beneficial frames, and switch away from topics that dont allow you to set the good frames you want.

Dancing > Art > Emotions > Connections > Intimacy. Then once you’ve exhausted that topic you can always call back on other stuff. “So you have your own business too?”

My subtopics are just for examples sake, obviously youd wanna talk about stuff that you both can speak on.

Ah, so I should be framing myself as an insider with every topic if possible to build similarity. But I thought it’d be okay to talk about something even if I dont know much about it because it gets her talking

You: I think it’s really cool you stuck with it that long, most people would quit once they found out they weren’t as good as they’d hoped. I try to only surround myself with people who can ride things out without quitting.

Is that really a beneficial frame to set for seduction though? Or are you setting it up to lead into a better frame

You can also make her qualify to you by pushing her away playfully.

You: I don’t think we could work, we’re both too strong we’d just fight all the time.

Her: I can actually be alot softer

(I’ve also gotten how fighting can be a good thing)

I feel like if I used this with a girl they would be like “yeah, probably” and just let it hang. Or if the girl really likes me they’d be like “oh” in a somewhat sad way. Im lost on how to respond to those.

And also, I find it really hard to get to the point where I can even say things like “You and me wouldn’t work out” without it feeling weird, like why am I thinking about us working out in the first place.

I’ll dig up some samples and dm them to you on sexualizing stuff.

Yes please! Thanks so much

 

[Kaida]

You're asking for compliance just for the hell of it, and she didn't give you much signs she's into you (girls will text just for the hell of it, like any random person that comes and asks her what her favorite whatever is, she's probably gonna text back, it doesn't really much).

Today I asked for the water bottle of this girl i’m flirting with even though I wasn’t thirsty. When she gave it to me this post came to mind. I was asking for compliance just for the hell of it.

Am I not supposed to do that? I feel like if I didn’t do that, I wouldn’t have enough opportunities to build compliance otherwise.

 

[Beck Bass]

Am I not supposed to do that? I feel like if I didn’t do that, I wouldn’t have enough opportunities to build compliance otherwise.

Nah, you did good, I think.

What I said was mostly on the context of texting. Since you're not there with the girl, you don't have much of a way to measure her mood/emotions or influence them properly, so asking for compliance through texts many times can backfire, even if the girl is somewhat invested into you, asking for the wrong thing at the wrong time can be a big fuck up.

In person you wanna get as much compliance as you can. Asking for the water bottle is a good innocent one, she's very likely to give it to you, and there's even that silly "indirect kiss thing", like exchanging saliva and stuff, so it's good stuff. Again calibration is important, but it's much easier to see what would work and what wouldn't in terms of getting compliance in person, and if you can get a compliance ladder (like that "yes chain" people talk about), you're moving in the direction of her pants hehe. Thanks for reminding me of those compliance requests that aren't quite touch, but can lead into it, I think they can be a good bridge for starting touching.

 

[Kaida]

Nah, you did good, I think.

What I said was mostly on the context of texting. Since you're not there with the girl, you don't have much of a way to measure her mood/emotions or influence them properly, so asking for compliance through texts many times can backfire, even if the girl is somewhat invested into you, asking for the wrong thing at the wrong time can be a big fuck up.

In person you wanna get as much compliance as you can. Asking for the water bottle is a good innocent one, she's very likely to give it to you, and there's even that silly "indirect kiss thing", like exchanging saliva and stuff, so it's good stuff. Again calibration is important, but it's much easier to see what would work and what wouldn't in terms of getting compliance in person, and if you can get a compliance ladder (like that "yes chain" people talk about), you're moving in the direction of her pants hehe. Thanks for reminding me of those compliance requests that aren't quite touch, but can lead into it, I think they can be a good bridge for starting touching.

Ahh okay, makes sense.

If you dont mind, can you explain that “indirect kiss thing”? I’ve never heard that before

 

[Beck Bass]

Ahh okay, makes sense.

If you dont mind, can you explain that “indirect kiss thing”? I’ve never heard that before

It's a silly thing mostly young girls (and guys?) say about sharing water bottles, glasses or whatever you drink from.
Because you're both drinking from the same thing, you're kinda sharing saliva, so it's an "indirect kiss" (because you're both risking getting diseases transmitted thought saliva).
Again, it's a very silly thing, but some young girls in TV shows sometimes are like "ooohh indirect kiss" and stuff like that... I guess subconsciously it can be some sort of more intimate compliance because only close people mostly share drinking stuff, most of the time.