New generation Krauser, Torero, Berba and RSD guys?

[Igor]

Maybe I'm just getting old but I have the impression that the PUA community was much more active and had better resources than nowadays with lads just running around with spy glasses telling women how hot she is.

Being here since 2010, went from Mystery, Krauser, RSD, Street-Attraction... but nowadays I would say last 5 years there are barely new masters and innovators in the field.

I hope this will activate people to take the lead and be the next genius.

 

[KnownUniverse]

You're right. Also i noticed the lack of content surrounding night game. Back in the day (pre-2018) half of pua was focused on how to pull girls from bars including infield videos. Now everything is based on number farming during the day. Tons of youtube PUAs (james marshall, Gus Olsen, Christian kasanova, James Tusk, Evolution daily, social stoic, etc...) posting regular infields but it's all literally the same thing: number farming during day game. No SDL. No Kiss closing. Just get the number and that's it.

I remember back in the day PUA experts were actually passionate about game. They would share stories detailaing lay reports during live seminars. Now, none of the experts want to talk in detail about their lays.

 

[Skills]

You're right. Also i noticed the lack of content surrounding night game. Back in the day (pre-2018) half of pua was focused on how to pull girls from bars including infield videos. Now everything is based on number farming during the day. Tons of youtube PUAs (james marshall, Gus Olsen, Christian kasanova, James Tusk, Evolution daily, social stoic, etc...) posting regular infields but it's all literally the same thing: number farming during day game. No SDL. No Kiss closing. Just get the number and that's it.

I remember back in the day PUA experts were actually passionate about game. They would share stories detailaing lay reports during live seminars. Now, none of the experts want to talk in detail about their lays.

cause that would get their channels deleted...

 

[KnownUniverse]

cause that would get their channels deleted...

There should be a better explanation other than "youtube censorship" for the complete abscense of night game discussion that used to exist back in the day.

 

[Skills]

There should be a better explanation other than "youtube censorship" for the complete abscense of night game discussion that used to exist back in the day.

Night game of that era s dead and they are time machiners

 

[KnownUniverse]

Night game of that era s dead and they are time machiners

Seems like it but nightclubs are still packed so there is capacity for that kind of discussion to broadly re-emerge again.

 

[Bismarck]

DTF from nightclubs migrated to OLD.

Night game may still exist but in much less overall volume than pre-COVID, according to Skills and Teevster.

Also Torero killed himself after being doxxed, and Krauser last I heard wants to get married.

 

[KnownUniverse]

according to most people online dating is the cultprit but i think societies attitudes have just shifted in general away from socialising with strangers in public. The thing is, god tier game only works if the girl buys into it. If she thinks what you're doing is weird then suddenly you go from someone who's very intriguing, confident and attractive to a crazy person being weird.

I'm obviously not referring the generic game seen all over social media that's mostly number farming but that old school methods that were designed for SDL or ONS.

 

[ulrich]

In general there is significantly less people interested in seduction for a multitude of reasons:

- A general trend of acceptance/tolerance going overboard… guys no longer feel inadequate for being virgins or incels, everybody is “quirky” now.
- Newer generations of women becoming more socially akward (which leads to occasional lucky lays)
- Less societal pressure to marry and form a family
- Online apps being a gateway to easy sex (even if disappointing)


Then you also have to consider there are now competing schools of thought that are more popular than seduction (even despite their lack of tangible success):
- Redpill
- Blackpill
- Looksmaxxxing
- MGTOW

And finally, just the fact/consequence that seduction now doesn’t lead quite easily to a successful business.
Guys and gurus in the “golden days” were massively active because they were promoting 30+ people coaching business which funded and encouraged content creation.
RSD being the perfect example of that.

There are young new guys out there teaching seduction in a very professional manner and with interesting new ideas… Austen Summers is one that comes to my mind.
It’s just that not in the same volume… and that is OK.

 

[RisingCane]

You have guys like Austen Summers, AG Hayden, Justin Marc, Ultimate Man Project, Scotty from GLL (Brian Harris), Playing With Fire, and many others. I kind of disagree with people here about cold approach being dead. A few weeks ago I got 3 lays in a week off of it and I have known guys that still coach it. You see bootcamps all throughout Brickell and in other venues too.

 

[Bismarck]

The death of nightlife (specifically of the club scene) in the West post-COVID should not be confused with the death of cold approach, which is still very much alive (in fact more effective than ever, for those who aren’t satisfied with OLD twat).

 

[ulrich]

This thread kind of reminds me to the typical discussion of how past times were always better.

But the thing is that whenever you look at the past, unless you lived then and have a pretty good memory, you tend to be affected by selection bias.
All things past go through a selection filter so whatever you find are the most notable instances of whatever you’re looking at.

It’s like music… look at a list of 90’s music and most of it will be “great hits”.
It’s not even that lame songs are not included… “average” songs are either underrepresented or totally forgotten giving you an inflated perception of the past

So you’re comparing “today’s average” to “yesterday’s remarkable”.

There were many lame PUAs too back in the day… we just don’t remember them.
(RSD was cringy as hell on the ir last years, many of Mystery’s apprentices too iirc)

 

[Teevster]

And things were even better in the late 2000s!

 

[Teevster]

Night game may still exist but in much less overall volume than pre-COVID, according to Skills and Teevster.

Nightgame is still going strong

 

[isildur1]

This thread kind of reminds me to the typical discussion of how past times were always better.

But the thing is that whenever you look at the past, unless you lived then and have a pretty good memory, you tend to be affected by selection bias.
All things past go through a selection filter so whatever you find are the most notable instances of whatever you’re looking at.

It’s like music… look at a list of 90’s music and most of it will be “great hits”.
It’s not even that lame songs are not included… “average” songs are either underrepresented or totally forgotten giving you an inflated perception of the past

So you’re comparing “today’s average” to “yesterday’s remarkable”.

There were many lame PUAs too back in the day… we just don’t remember them.
(RSD was cringy as hell on the ir last years, many of Mystery’s apprentices too iirc)

Objectively speaking things were better in the past than now. I say this as someone who started seduction in 2013 and daygame in 2017 I consider myself far more fortunate than anyone starting in 2025 for sure.



Even back in 2017 it was far easier to find wings I had



The rsd forums ( now closed)

Facebook pua meet-ups ( now dead)

Tom Torero meet ups in London ( no longer with us )

Sasha daygame meet-up in London ( now he’s retired)

Rsd meet-ups ( cringe but still a networking opportunity )

Simple pickup forums ( disbanded as of 2019 )

Pua- Uk forums ( now closed)

The natural lifestyles meet-up in Budapest ( stopped 2019. )



Pretty much I had access to nearly all of these and I’d say 70 percent of them gleaned me wingmen and good connections that improved my dating skill set. Now for anyone starting out these things no longer exist and have been replaced by either nothing or shoddy marketing gimmicks



And yeah I’m not a rsd fan but through their forums I made connections that were invaluable to me getting my first daygame lays. Pretty much a bunch of high ticket scammers but I’m greatful for the network they created for me.



I’d argue there was a greater sense of community back then than now. You could literally count the amount of active seduction forums with one hand now - here , Rosh v forums ( which no longer even have rosh v) and so suave and I bet 80 percent of Sosuave don’t even do cold approach judging by the posts on there.



It’s all together a much more inactive scene than it used to be and for anyone starting out I can imagine it to be quite isolating and lonely. Most definitely I feel online dating gutted the community and left men on their own in bedrooms swiping and being satisfied with what they got with the apps. For me it was the main reason I hate online dating as it really killed the essence of community , forum numbers got obliterated after 2015-2016 when the apps came into full fruition and men became alot lazier at least that’s my observation

 

[Warped Mindless]

Fatter and older than ever and still pulling from day game on a regular basis.

I started way back in 2006 and even back then people were bitching that "cold approach just isn't good anymore!"

Whatever. Go flirt with some girls.

 

[Teevster]

Fatter and older than ever and still pulling from day game on a regular basis.

I started way back in 2006 and even back then people were bitching that "cold approach just isn't good anymore!"

Whatever. Go flirt with some girls.

Nothing like being a chubster and have girls compliment you on it - "I have think for daddy bellies".

The rationalization is real.

-Teevster

 

[TomInHo]

I'm sorry but a lot of you guys sound really old lol

I’m in my late 30s and was somewhat aware of the seduction scene when I was younger, but I thought it was kind of cringe back then, so I didn’t really get involved.

That said, I had a friend who was a big fan of Mystery and would go meet wings at pick-up spots. He would tell me about his cringe outings and that put me of the community even more

But as I got older I decided to give learning seduction in more structured way a try and found out the space was actually bigger than ever

If you’re living in the past, you might think seduction is dead, but it’s definitely not

What’s happened is that the scene has become much more niche, and people don’t learn from forums anymore

Nowadays, dating coaches run their own smaller communities where students can meet up, wing each other, and learn together

For example, there’s Dante in New York, and then UMP, which operates in Australia and Poland.

Playing With Fire (PWF) is based in Miami and runs a mastermind group focused on online dating (OLD). He also brought on Scottie from GGL to help with daygame and physical seduction techniques

There are also younger creators on YouTube with their own communities, guys like Denmo, The Minorities, and Taykwandoe

Lookmaxxing channels also have active communities teaching game, along with smaller creators specializing in social circle game

You can include some Passport Bro channels too, and X has a very active pickup scene

Some of the traditionalist's here may say some of those things aren't really seduction. But who gives a fuck?

If following that advice gets men laid then it's a viable method to me

Long story short, the internet is massive, and just because this side of the internet is smaller does not mean people are not still teaming up with others to learn game

It’s just evolved and become less centralized, which I think is a good thing

Because each school of thought now brings a unique perspective on how to approach the game and more and more men are becoming aware

Can't tell you how many times I have recently met a "Natural" only to find out he learned some stuff from some underground seduction group

As long as men want to fuck women I don't think the community will ever truly die

 

[Warped Mindless]

Nothing like being a chubster and have girls compliment you on it - "I have think for daddy bellies".

The rationalization is real.

-Teevster

Yep. I got injured and stopped working out and stressed eat due to a new business and I’m in the worst shape of my life.

I get less obvious approach invites but other than that I still have zero problems with day game cold approach.

Dudes just want an excuse to play victim.

 

[Teevster]

Yep. I got injured and stopped working out and stressed eat due to a new business and I’m in the worst shape of my life.

Same lol. Aside from the injury part. Hope you are feeling better.

-Teevster