On the other side of the too nice guy problem

[Smiling_Stray]

(Edit: I realize this might be too long for some people so I broke it down to be more skim friendly. The Bold words should help

Alright so before anyone decides to crucify me for being too nice or anything, let me clarify what I'm saying with this threads title; I'm not talking about the problem of being too nice or not nice enough, I'm talking about that guy someone's girlfriend just met and is a little too nice... but they're just friends. Nothing's happing between them sexually (Well, sex isn't happening) but she still seems somewhat infatuated with him. Then she breaks up with her boyfriend and gets with this guy who was just a little too friendly.

Seems unrealistic, right?

Think again.

A few months back , this is exactly what happened to me. I was going through shit and I became largely absent (attention-wise, not physically) in the relationship. We go to a party, she meets a guy. Guy asks her out, she shoots him down and tells me right away. They steer clear of each other the rest of the night while I get lost trying to find the bottom of a whiskey bottle. Eventually, they cross paths again and he acts platonic towards her. At the time she was experiencing a drought of friends and was very lonesome, she asks me if it'd be cool if they became friends. I was too caught up with self-destructing at the time (that shit's long resolved) to care. Next thing I know, this guy is all I hear her talk about for a few weeks and she spends all her time with him (leaving me to continue doing what I want, we both checked out of the relationship in our own ways by then). We break up. Ten days later, I get the news they're getting together to try to start a relationship and he's using all the things I used to do to keep our sex life alive and well in bedroom while we were together (she had shared a lot with him by this point).

Fast forward to today, once all the pain that can pass has passed and I've suddenly found myself scratching my head wondering "How the hell did that work for him? How the hell do you dive right into the friendzone like that and still come out in a sexual light in the end?". It's so baffling to me, it seems like everything was against me, yes (I was M.I.A.), but also him. He spent every waking minute he could with her, openly allowed himself to be treated like a friend, and never once had sex with her for the entirety of the months that it took for our relationship to finally kick the bucket. And yes, I'm 100% certain sex never happened between them until after we broke things off. She was always a state away from both me and him or right next to me, though always where I could see her. (On zoom, if not in person).

Mini-report for background to current day
Now here I am, in the position he was back then. Only now, I'm on a university campus and it's a different woman. Similar shit going on though: The new chick is in her first semester (as am I), she's still with her highschool sweetheart but they go to different colleges. She has no friends aside from me that she really considers friends and is very lonely. I've only known her a sum of four days now and already know her as well as I know myself. She can't stop talking to me and wants to hang out all the time, every day. Apparently she's talked to her boyfriend about me but I've run into no trouble with him so far. I met this chick on the 2nd day of our class, then I dropped it and ran into her by chance about a week or two later at a club meeting I was going to for the first time. She's loosely friends with another woman who's running it. She see's me and runs up to me, starts rambling on nonstop. Very happy to see me. I ask her if she'd like to hang out in my dorm a few nights from then and listen to records. She agrees without thought and we exchange contact. She's really warm over text.

The night comes, we have a lot of fun. We bond, get high, and relate in ways she's never before. She's got this look in her eye of awe but she's jumpy with touch though warms up to it a bit. The night ends, I walk her back to her place. She invites me in. I join her, we bond more but I can tell we're both too happy with the other and are both full of nerves. (Been a while since I've run into the kind of chick I dreamed of as a kid) So we go to leave on that note, she walks me out. But gets locked out, I let her stay with me at my place and offer the bed as my roommate won't be back until early morning (as usual). She insists on the couch. I wake up and she's gone. But leaves a very warm text.

It's the same when we meet again in person for dinner that night at her dorm. This has been going on for the past three days and people smile and look at us together. She doesn't seem to care, even encourages me to post pictures of her on my media. We've now set up a movie hangout for one of our dorms this saturday night. Though she is still with the other dude and seldom offers any real window of opportunity. When she does, she's hesitant, as it lasts only a few moments. Then she starts on about her boyfriend not long after. I'm not sure what to think here but my mind keeps jumping back to the other guy in my previous relationship for some reason and I think it'd be best to know how he pulled that off. I think this woman is close to taking a step back from her relationship too but I can't be sure.

Question
Either way, she seems well connected. So while I would like to pull this one, I also think a friendship could work just as well but I'm generally trying to pull myself back to avoid getting too invested (I know myself too well to let myself do that). Still, what the fuck happened? What's your take on this?

 

[Just a Man]

My two cents...

With a view to pulling her, I'd suggest that at the next hangout time you have (you mention Saturday) you should set a sexual frame to the conversation and, if it's working, switch to go direct, i.e. the initial frame doesn't have to be explicitly about your interest in her but you switch to that if she's complying with the frame.

Leave it much longer and it sounds like the platonic friendship option will take over. Remember that the guy that your ex-girlfriend moved onto put a marker down right away that he was interested.

Unless the current girl is actually in love with her boyfriend, you might be able to pull her. How it pans out will be influenced by how she feels about him and whether she's going to have guilt issues with switching to you. But she has to know you're interested.

The only reason I can see not to do this is if you think it'll spoil a platonic friendship and you want to prioritize the friendship. But if you don't show interest, then you're effectively committing up front to the platonic friendship, so you'll want to then find other girls to get your mind off the whole what-might-have-been headfuck.

 

[Smiling_Stray]

@Just a Man Thanks man, that seems like some solid advice. I was actually just eating dinner with her when I got your response.

I'm not sure if I set a sexual frame or not but I definitely flirt with her all the time. Though it's usually hit or miss with her and she knows I tend to flirt with most people.

And while we were in her dorm on the first night, it came up that I liked girls like her a lot when I was younger and that it was cool to meet someone like that. She says something similar at times (that she feels I'm a mirror of her, not like other guys, really cool, that its crazy how alike we are, ect.) but she responded at the time by saying that if things were different, then yeah totally, she would be into more than friends but that she loves her boyfriend. I took that as an opportunity to connect over the lack of loyalty in college. That quickly went into a deeper conversation.
So she knows I like her in that way.

(Funny side note: She said she finds guys with long hair attractive...... Her guy's bald. I've had longer hair most my life)

Other than that, when I flirt with her now she seems somewhat receptive (again usually hit or miss) but I definitely get the feeling there's a limit with how far I can take it with her. She's definitely becoming more comfortable with touch than she was at first.

I'll definitely have to carefully consider what would be best. Ideally it'd be cool to be friends for now but still have that option later if she suddenly becomes more available. But yeah you're right, I would need to meet other women to get out of that head-fuck and I have been but I don't often see whole lot of women who mirror my personality and style so it's difficult to scratch that itch. I am friends with my previous so maybe that could help but I'm trying to keep distance from her somewhat.

I'll have to keep an eye out for other chicks like that for now, I'm sure there's more roaming around here somewhere.

Thanks again!

 

[Rakehell]

Mostlikely your ex felt your lack of presence in the relationship and allowed herself to be emotionally influenced by the other guy. Eventually becoming emotionally attached.

While they hung out they most likely talked about you, and how she felt:

(she had shared a lot with him by this point).

like you said here. He may have taken your side on some things while berating you on others to try and make himself look rational (and not just taking her side to eventually get in her pants). They might’ve done other lovey dovey shit like cuddling, having mini “dates” etc etc. He probably postured himself as a bf #2 of sorts.

So by the time you were broken up it was easy to segway into monogamy with all the tension of hanging out but never having sex. But this is just speculation.

 

[Glow]

Sounds like her bond is stronger w her boyfriend than yours was.

Check boyfriend destroyers to understand the dynamics of how to address this dynamic. Look at the broader dimensions of the often specific destroyers in the community.

Secondly elicit her inner worlds and stimulate on them. This can be done more or less deeply. surface level can be fine if you dont wanna make her fall for you.

Arouse her fractionally and as a momentum in an out til she cant hold back. You wanna think much more in little moments spread over a period, a momentum of subtle escalations that subtly injects ideas and emotion into her. Think indirect escalation.

Being friendzoned can be real or for protective purposes in this case slutshaming aka shes placing you in a socially and for her own self perception safe container allowing her to hang with you. Friendzoning doesnt matter for a pro. Yeah she grabs a frame. we know how to change that either immediately or slowly. In this case you have time.

She puts out a seed for things UNDER the current regime shes in. Change that gradually.

 

[Smiling_Stray]

I'm mildly hungover but I have an update and a busy day ahead, so bear with me here.

I just got back to my dorm after waking up next to her. We had a night of movies and road trips, all of which followed by drinking. During which we revealed a lot about ourselves. Of course, I didn't give too much. All she could gather from what I said is that I have a lot endurance, a don't kiss and tell policy, I'm not looking for a relationship (as far as she knows) and that I've been where she is in life (and that although I don't know what's gonna happen with her relationship, the odds of them working out are not great, statistically) but it's something she needs to go through.

On the other hand, I learned a great deal about her I didn't know before hand. She told me a lot of secrets, including the fact that one of her closest friends (who was and is in a relationship) had an intimate relation to another guy, similar to us. But he fucked up when he got too in love and she didn't want to leave her relationship. She joked I'm just like him but I said I wouldn't do something so over the top like that with someone I'm not in a relationship with. She also said in a very warm way that she likes me (though this could be interpreted in a number of ways). And most notably, I learned that her relationship is not so ironclad after all. They've been together for just a little over two years and she's broken up with him a few times and this is his "last chance" because he's done some really dumb things in regards to showing too much interest in other women. I took that opportunity to use a boyfriend destroyer.

Right off the bat, something felt more sexually charged about last night. And as we both got more and more drunk, it became more and more apparent to me that I could've taken her there and then. But I had a hard time getting us physically close while flirting (was normally one or the other) and I feel like I should've pushed harder but I didn't push it.

It got late quick, and I was too drunk to walk back to my dorm without getting in trouble (it's a dry campus). She offered me her bed before I could say anything. I took her up on the offer and she immediately began to agonize over how she'd explain this to her boyfriend. I told her to just not say anything, if she had to, she could just say I took the couch. We both passed out fast after that. I awoke once or twice throughout the night and felt like she was glancing over at me but couldn't be sure. I think she thought I was still passed out. Anyway, we wake up today and right away she can't stop talking. She loves telling me every little thing now and is trying to get me to visit her place off campus and meet her folks. I didn't say no, I just made a joke saying "Shit, I'm meeting the parents? This is getting serious!" She laughed and made a reference to the bottle as a prematurely born baby of ours. She walked me out, asked me about my plans for today, (We're both busy as fuck this weekend), and that was that.

Not sure what to think about this. I understand hitting a window is important as fuck but I also get that sometimes it's alright to wait for the second date or something. Plus, the fact that she doesn't want to be labeled as a cheater by anyone. I don't know. I'm hanging out with someone else tonight, we'll see how that goes. Thoughts?

 

[Skills]

i have done similar seductions and i had similar stuff done to me, on what was done to you, the reason he pulled it off is cause the relationship was in the last legs.... Vision more or less explains how is kind of done, i also explain it here (read my links),

Friendship Framing Part 1 - Should You Go Direct or Indirect?

I've had a few people ask me about Friendship Framing and how it works so I thought I'd do a few write ups on it to help people out that I've seen struggling with a few things as well as organize my own thoughts. I've met a few guys since I've been back in the States and we've gone out and done...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Smiling_Stray]

Guys, this is all awesome stuff! Recently been getting back into my usual groove with this website again and it's definitely starting to show with the campus chicks already. Plus, as for the woman I mention in this thread, I keep coming across more and more signs the relationship she's in is going down... though there seems to be pressure coming from her family to stay in it but she's definitely not as happy as I initially thought. Also, I feel I should mention this is her first relationship ever and she's more on the inexperienced side (not that this necessarily changes anything, though perhaps it adds another layer to some things?)

Spring break's coming up in a few days and I'm already seeing the breakups come rolling in (spring break seems to be the biggest breakup season of the year). She's going on a three day trip with him somewhere while I'm getting myself back in shape in the city closer to my folks. She keeps saying she wants me to come visit her after she gets back to meet her family and her boyfriend (I know for a fact I can handle this well). I feel like she wants to see how I measure up and maybe get some approval from her folks but I can't be sure. I'm honestly not sure if it's something I should do or not. It wouldn't be very inconvenient, I'm staying with a buddy in her area around that time anyway and she knows this, but still... is it wise to visit her over the break like this? Would it be something in my favor or would it work against me?