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Passive (e.g. Screening) vs. Active Game

KJ Francis

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He would often give people genuine answers even throughout whatever back and forth. I can understand the ban because it could become a net negative if he ended up driving people off again.


If you can actually get good looking girls to approach you consistently, and it leads to lays, isnt that the dream? I'd much rather go to the club and hang out with my friends and build social proof and get approached than go work sets if possible.
Sort of... Depends on your goal. To me this is opposite from achieving "absolute abundance" which is the main goal of a lot of the forum guys. It's the ability to use your skill set to leave the house and replace the girl of any quality level (not just hotness).

Relying on being approached is selecting for certain girls. You're already screening.

To me that is so much like Mr. Locario et al. It's like if the girl doesn't like you there is another one who does and she is fully interchangeable.

But here we see barney posting a FR of a preferred girl from the same night as a LR, asking how he could have gotten her. It's like 5/5 vs. 5/100. Same result? Yes and no.
 

504

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Sort of... Depends on your goal. To me this is opposite from achieving "absolute abundance" which is the main goal of a lot of the forum guys. It's the ability to use your skill set to leave the house and replace the girl of any quality level (not just hotness).

Relying on being approached is selecting for certain girls. You're already screening.

To me that is so much like Mr. Locario et al. It's like if the girl doesn't like you there is another one who does and she is fully interchangeable.

But here we see barney posting a FR of a preferred girl from the same night as a LR, asking how he could have gotten her. It's like 5/5 vs. 5/100. Same result? Yes and no.

I am sure that for many guys, one of the most amazing feelings is to find a girl NOT giving you ANY IOI's, go to her, and without her being attracted to you, seduce her to follow you, be turned on by you, and have sex with you, and be converted by you.

At the same time, being able to do what Levo said is also amazing.

As in: why not have both skills? Generally have girls do most of the work because your mere presence makes girls wet and they do anything in their power to get your attention or better, lead you to bed (I am exaggerating with my comment but I'm sure you know what I mean)...but also be able to "get whatever girl you want", irrespective of whether she digs you or not.

edit: grammar+spelling
 

Teevster

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If you can actually get good looking girls to approach you consistently, and it leads to lays, isnt that the dream? I'd much rather go to the club and hang out with my friends and build social proof and get approached than go work sets if possible.

100%

Go out with a tranny and a feminine gay guy and you will have no problem getting into sets witout opening. Like during my last days in paris, my approach game was at times non-existent (I was friend with some histrionic fashion gays - and they'd win over the room in no time!).
 

Teevster

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Sort of... Depends on your goal. To me this is opposite from achieving "absolute abundance" which is the main goal of a lot of the forum guys. It's the ability to use your skill set to leave the house and replace the girl of any quality level (not just hotness).

I am sure @Levo's approach-game is more than on-point. If I understand him right, it is more a desire to not have to go through the hassle of opening and just get straight to the good-stuff. I sympatise 100% :D I am getting lazy with the years.

-Teev
 

KJ Francis

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Definitely fair... I have met two transwomen recently and have considered bringing them out. Also went on online dating and found this attention seeking girl who looks like a porn star. I immediately friend zoned her and proposed winging each other.

I suppose it's all different tools in your belt. That won't help with street stops walking between cafes near campus though, so I personally want to work through approach anxiety before relying on any crutches.

Not that optimizing fashion is a crutch. But if you walk in a cafe and notice one girl's interest get super piqued - that is cool, but if that is the whole strategy then you never learn to engage with the ones who do not make their interest obvious and are confined to what gets thrown at you.
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake

Teevster

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Also went on online dating and found this attention seeking girl who looks like a porn star. I immediately friend zoned her and proposed winging each other.

Having a female wing is.... yeah... a double edged sword. You will also have to be her "protector" and stuff. Like you can't just dump her. I do not like it. Gay guys... welll, they do not need baby-sitting.

-Teevster
 

KJ Francis

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Having a female wing is.... yeah... a double edged sword. You will also have to be her "protector" and stuff. Like you can't just dump her. I do not like it. Gay guys... welll, they do not need baby-sitting.

-Teevster
Ahhh good point... I should probably try to get a group of girls... Then hit a gay bar
 

Skills

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If you can actually get good looking girls to approach you consistently, and it leads to lays, isnt that the dream? I'd much rather go to the club and hang out with my friends and build social proof and get approached than go work sets if possible.
Correct...
 

Teevster

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Ahhh good point... I should probably try to get a group of girls... Then hit a gay bar

Why hit a gay bar if you are out with a group of girls???

Makes no sense.

-Teevster
 

Bismarck

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I think he means trans "girls".
 

KJ Francis

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Why hit a gay bar if you are out with a group of girls???

Makes no sense.

-Teevster
I think he means trans "girls".
Well anyone really... Just someone to go with and meet a gay wingman to then go out with to regular and/or gay bars. I suppose I could also hit the gay bar alone.

But it would more likely be a bar hop situation visiting both types. So group of girls sounds better than single wingwoman so you can leave them if needed.

I would eventually like to try all types of wing situations... Transwoman, gay man, straight man, girl groups...
 

KJ Francis

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pretty much, top tier game
honestly I think this is missing the point.... it is game avoidance.

It is "high school quarterback game". If you have 50% reds, 30% yellows, and 20% greens in the lunch room... you may have those 20% actively throwing themselves at you... confident, social butterfly cheerleaders begging for your cock. Great right? More girls than you have time for. Some would call this "the dream".

But the quarterback may have ZERO SKILL SET, bottom tier game when it comes to approaching and seducing a more studious girl who views him as low attainability and is on the verge of auto-rejecting as she passes him on the way to the library. Because he has approach anxiety, etc. I remember Chase writing about meeting a bunch of Marines or something... masculine guys with good fundamentals, who all were still terrified of approaching / rejection.

It completely depends on your goal. If it is to get laid with interchangeable hot pussy (valid goal), then you do not need to bother with that 30% at all. But maybe your goal is to actually have the skill set to approach and seduce a particular woman.

This is the whole point of the old school, indirect method. To screen LESS and widen your net from that 20% to 50%.
 

Skills

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honestly I think this is missing the point.... it is game avoidance.

It is "high school quarterback game". If you have 50% reds, 30% yellows, and 20% greens in the lunch room... you may have those 20% actively throwing themselves at you... confident, social butterfly cheerleaders begging for your cock. Great right? More girls than you have time for. Some would call this "the dream".

But the quarterback may have ZERO SKILL SET, bottom tier game when it comes to approaching and seducing a more studious girl who views him as low attainability and is on the verge of auto-rejecting as she passes him on the way to the library. Because he has approach anxiety, etc. I remember Chase writing about meeting a bunch of Marines or something... masculine guys with good fundamentals, who all were still terrified of approaching / rejection.

It completely depends on your goal. If it is to get laid with interchangeable hot pussy (valid goal), then you do not need to bother with that 30% at all. But maybe your goal is to actually have the skill set to approach and seduce a particular woman.

This is the whole point of the old school, indirect method. To screen LESS and widen your net from that 20% to 50%.
You can re frame it how ever you want such as game avoidance
.. i can say guys doing online are doing game avoidance... The goal is to optimize... Who cares about how..
 

KJ Francis

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i can say guys doing online are doing game avoidance
I would agree with this. Online is hardcore screening. You don't even have the ability to send an opener to the girls who don't swipe on you.

The goal is to optimize...
Well this is a sub-goal in service of your overarching goal. Optimizing toward something...

I am not against screening or physical game. All game has some level of screening, to varying degrees. I am also not against optimizing your archetype and fundamentals to shift the percentage of yellows to greens. If your goal is to get laid by any hot girl of your type, then 60YOC is very applicable - reject me and save me time by getting out of my way (which I agree is not blow me or blow me out, or make the hoe say no in the later game escalation... it is just some early filtering).

But as you said in your interview, the game is played with the yellows. I thought that is "skilled seduction". To get the woman of interest who may not be immediately compliant, or has a bitch shield up, or whatever else.

Teevster explains here:

Lately, due to the confinement, we end up on the forum debating old topics - beating down dead horses.

And I find it awesome that we see typical new school pua theory being presented, and perhaps contrasted with the old school way of thinking. Now what is this so-called "new school" ? well without constructing any new terms here, new school is basically the current paradigm that: game is all about escalating the process, the vibe, and dealing with resistance - basically sealing the deal with women who are already attracted to you.

A key premise to this paradigm is that attraction either is there or isn't. In other words, you cannot create or generate attraction. It has to be there from the get go, and "game" is all about capitalizing on girls who are already into you. "Game" in this case is about sealing the deal and not fuck up - i.e. reduce attraction.

According to this school, behavior and words can reduce her attraction for you, but not generate it. Game is therefore all about screening for girls who are into you, and you may increase your odds by maximizing your fundamentals such as looks, status and wealth. Basically this paradigm is very much in line with the more recent "money, looks, status" crap - just a more refined view of it.

And then we have the otherr view - a view held by a minority (but it was not always like that!) which is the old school view - namely that one can generate attraction, or even create it, and game is not just all about "making it happen", but also generating the (pre-)conditions that makes it happen - i.e. making a girl who is not attracted to you, actually be willing to have sex with you. This view puts a lot more faith in outer game and pick up techniques. We believe in the game.

I am of the latter school, and so is most old schoolers here. Many of those few old schoolers that remain active tend be really good in field - which is not always the case with those new schoolers - although some are really good.

 

Skills

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honestly I think this is missing the point.... it is game avoidance.

It is "high school quarterback game". If you have 50% reds, 30% yellows, and 20% greens in the lunch room... you may have those 20% actively throwing themselves at you... confident, social butterfly cheerleaders begging for your cock. Great right? More girls than you have time for. Some would call this "the dream".

But the quarterback may have ZERO SKILL SET, bottom tier game when it comes to approaching and seducing a more studious girl who views him as low attainability and is on the verge of auto-rejecting as she passes him on the way to the library. Because he has approach anxiety, etc. I remember Chase writing about meeting a bunch of Marines or something... masculine guys with good fundamentals, who all were still terrified of approaching / rejection.

It completely depends on your goal. If it is to get laid with interchangeable hot pussy (valid goal), then you do not need to bother with that 30% at all. But maybe your goal is to actually have the skill set to approach and seduce a particular woman.

This is the whole point of the old school, indirect method. To screen LESS and widen your net from that 20% to 50%.
But he has game... I already told screen Guys do have game even though they come across as they don't... I just didn't appreciate his new niche game hard to replicate... Look max brah advice...

But he did it right in a way that he is not only dealing with the 10 percent greens like most of us... He is dealing with 90 percent geeens..

In his job all the girls like him... So he chose the best one ..

Again my problem is the practicality of representation and that other posters don't have that reality ..

Trust me any gamer would love to do greens if possible is on easy mode upfront... He put a lot of hard work in fundies...
 

Levo

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I really hate how some of these internet discussions start with "Oh so you hate waffles?" type comebacks to someone saying "I like pancakes." Even if I said the dream was to get your looks so attractive that have girls throwing themselves at you, in no way does that imply that Im saying thats ALL you should do and you do not need any other game. That would be a ridiculous statement.

Same as I think people think it was equally ridiculous if I said go ahead and get fat and wear shitty clothing and dont brush your hair because good game verbal skillz will get you the girls.

Being a skilled seducer is filling your toolbox and getting good at all of the tools. You'd be a fool if you didnt try to max out your looks and style, it just makes everything so much easier. Just like you'd be a fool if you didn't learn cold approach and opening and storytelling and frame control, etc.

I love the fact that I can walk into a bar alone and do sets and meet a girl. Learning that skill is something I'm quite proud of and it gives me comfort to know that I can go to any city in the world alone and have a female companion relatively quickly.

However I do think advanced game get into lifestyle maxing as well. That includes making cool and interesting friends who go out with you, growing your social circle, etc. Maxing out your looks and style helps a lot with this as well.

What I meant the dream was, and I thought it was implied, is to look good enough to get girls throwing themselves as you, yes, but that doenst mean just sit alone at the bar and wait to be approached or play "quarterback game". I'm going to leverage my looks to make friends to go out with, leverage my status and looks and cold approach and opening skills to chat with everyone at the bar around me. Going to be gauging the reactions of all the girls and knowing where theyre at. Maybe a few 6-8s are throwing themselves at me. I can lay them yes, or I can use them as social proof and pivots to target the hottest girl in the bar. I can pretty much do what I want because I have all the tools in the toolkit.

Some people say Spike was playing QB game because he had debilitating AA, maybe thats true, but it is still admirable that he is genetically gifted enough and put in the work to get there. He had to also be doing other things right or he would have quickly gotten the reputation of an older creep who hung around college bars and hit on 18 year olds.

The other part thats left out of "QB game" when focusing on his looks is the fact that HE IS QUARTERBACK OF THE FOOTBALL TEAM. Sure hes in shape and attractive but hes also a leader of men and has the most important job on something everyone admires and is the star, famous in his circle, etc. That gets him the girl as much as the looks. The only real criticism of him is he never sharpened the rest of his tools, because he never needed to. Theres not nearly enough talk in these circles about how to "become the Quarterback", imo.

So in my mind, the dream isn't going out alone and doing sets forever, the dream is building your own tribe in your city that youre the leader of and naturally attracting most girls from whatever niche social group is your favorite. It's having all your tools so sharp that you get laid effortlessly when you want, but also have the skills to target the hottest girl in the bar by the end of the night.

Also, if you do get that HB 10 she wont stick around forever just because of your awesome verbal skills or looks, you also have to have arguably the most important tool: becoming an interesting person with an interesting life that she wants to be a part of.

It's all connected man.
 

StrayDog

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I really hate how some of these internet discussions start with "Oh so you hate waffles?" type comebacks to someone saying "I like pancakes." Even if I said the dream was to get your looks so attractive that have girls throwing themselves at you, in no way does that imply that Im saying thats ALL you should do and you do not need any other game. That would be a ridiculous statement.

Same as I think people think it was equally ridiculous if I said go ahead and get fat and wear shitty clothing and dont brush your hair because good game verbal skillz will get you the girls.

Being a skilled seducer is filling your toolbox and getting good at all of the tools. You'd be a fool if you didnt try to max out your looks and style, it just makes everything so much easier. Just like you'd be a fool if you didn't learn cold approach and opening and storytelling and frame control, etc.

I love the fact that I can walk into a bar alone and do sets and meet a girl. Learning that skill is something I'm quite proud of and it gives me comfort to know that I can go to any city in the world alone and have a female companion relatively quickly.

However I do think advanced game get into lifestyle maxing as well. That includes making cool and interesting friends who go out with you, growing your social circle, etc. Maxing out your looks and style helps a lot with this as well.

What I meant the dream was, and I thought it was implied, is to look good enough to get girls throwing themselves as you, yes, but that doenst mean just sit alone at the bar and wait to be approached or play "quarterback game". I'm going to leverage my looks to make friends to go out with, leverage my status and looks and cold approach and opening skills to chat with everyone at the bar around me. Going to be gauging the reactions of all the girls and knowing where theyre at. Maybe a few 6-8s are throwing themselves at me. I can lay them yes, or I can use them as social proof and pivots to target the hottest girl in the bar. I can pretty much do what I want because I have all the tools in the toolkit.

Some people say Spike was playing QB game because he had debilitating AA, maybe thats true, but it is still admirable that he is genetically gifted enough and put in the work to get there. He had to also be doing other things right or he would have quickly gotten the reputation of an older creep who hung around college bars and hit on 18 year olds.

The other part thats left out of "QB game" when focusing on his looks is the fact that HE IS QUARTERBACK OF THE FOOTBALL TEAM. Sure hes in shape and attractive but hes also a leader of men and has the most important job on something everyone admires and is the star, famous in his circle, etc. That gets him the girl as much as the looks. The only real criticism of him is he never sharpened the rest of his tools, because he never needed to. Theres not nearly enough talk in these circles about how to "become the Quarterback", imo.

So in my mind, the dream isn't going out alone and doing sets forever, the dream is building your own tribe in your city that youre the leader of and naturally attracting most girls from whatever niche social group is your favorite. It's having all your tools so sharp that you get laid effortlessly when you want, but also have the skills to target the hottest girl in the bar by the end of the night.

Also, if you do get that HB 10 she wont stick around forever just because of your awesome verbal skills or looks, you also have to have arguably the most important tool: becoming an interesting person with an interesting life that she wants to be a part of.

It's all connected man.
so wait, do you hate waffles or not?
 

ChrisXKiss

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One question regarding this statement
the dream is building your own tribe in your city that youre the leader of

This is your ideal, but do you also consider it as something that has to be done in this specific way in order to be
naturally attracting most girls from whatever niche social group is your favorite.

This something I’ve always wondered because I never cared about leadership positions much.

Of course
becoming an interesting person with an interesting life that she wants to be a part of
is really important, my question is more towards whether you have to be the quarterback or if you really prefer being the receiver that’s also perfectly fine.
 

Teevster

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Skills

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I really hate how some of these internet discussions start with "Oh so you hate waffles?" type comebacks to someone saying "I like pancakes." Even if I said the dream was to get your looks so attractive that have girls throwing themselves at you, in no way does that imply that Im saying thats ALL you should do and you do not need any other game. That would be a ridiculous statement.

Same as I think people think it was equally ridiculous if I said go ahead and get fat and wear shitty clothing and dont brush your hair because good game verbal skillz will get you the girls.

Being a skilled seducer is filling your toolbox and getting good at all of the tools. You'd be a fool if you didnt try to max out your looks and style, it just makes everything so much easier. Just like you'd be a fool if you didn't learn cold approach and opening and storytelling and frame control, etc.

I love the fact that I can walk into a bar alone and do sets and meet a girl. Learning that skill is something I'm quite proud of and it gives me comfort to know that I can go to any city in the world alone and have a female companion relatively quickly.

However I do think advanced game get into lifestyle maxing as well. That includes making cool and interesting friends who go out with you, growing your social circle, etc. Maxing out your looks and style helps a lot with this as well.

What I meant the dream was, and I thought it was implied, is to look good enough to get girls throwing themselves as you, yes, but that doenst mean just sit alone at the bar and wait to be approached or play "quarterback game". I'm going to leverage my looks to make friends to go out with, leverage my status and looks and cold approach and opening skills to chat with everyone at the bar around me. Going to be gauging the reactions of all the girls and knowing where theyre at. Maybe a few 6-8s are throwing themselves at me. I can lay them yes, or I can use them as social proof and pivots to target the hottest girl in the bar. I can pretty much do what I want because I have all the tools in the toolkit.

Some people say Spike was playing QB game because he had debilitating AA, maybe thats true, but it is still admirable that he is genetically gifted enough and put in the work to get there. He had to also be doing other things right or he would have quickly gotten the reputation of an older creep who hung around college bars and hit on 18 year olds.

The other part thats left out of "QB game" when focusing on his looks is the fact that HE IS QUARTERBACK OF THE FOOTBALL TEAM. Sure hes in shape and attractive but hes also a leader of men and has the most important job on something everyone admires and is the star, famous in his circle, etc. That gets him the girl as much as the looks. The only real criticism of him is he never sharpened the rest of his tools, because he never needed to. Theres not nearly enough talk in these circles about how to "become the Quarterback", imo.

So in my mind, the dream isn't going out alone and doing sets forever, the dream is building your own tribe in your city that youre the leader of and naturally attracting most girls from whatever niche social group is your favorite. It's having all your tools so sharp that you get laid effortlessly when you want, but also have the skills to target the hottest girl in the bar by the end of the night.

Also, if you do get that HB 10 she wont stick around forever just because of your awesome verbal skills or looks, you also have to have arguably the most important tool: becoming an interesting person with an interesting life that she wants to be a part of.

It's all connected man.
He is not genetically gifted lol...he just started maxing out style and marketing to market demo... I troll him calling him pdyddy drake 10 year old girls... He says i am retarded... But he those extreme lifestyle design and venue target etc... Dww does the same... They are similar on what they do kind of ..
 
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