Poor fundamentals and getting attractive women. Does this actually happen?

[raiden]

I have primarily gone on dates from online dating systems. Recently, I started going to dating events in my town. These are just singles events, not speed dating or anything. They're paid entry and I often see the ladies' tickets sell out sooner than the gentlemen's. The events that I went to had a good number of women compared to men so I figured that these events are a great place for me to transition to approach, albeit kind of warm approach.

I'm getting into events because my fundamentals suck and, after years of using these dating systems and getting bad results, I'm getting middle aged and hopeless, and finding that I want to have a family.

At the first event I went to, I said hi to lots of women but most of them had to get going to the bathroom or something. I tried to ask one out but I got dismissed with a suggestion to follow on Instagram. I even remember saying hi to a woman and having her say hi and then turn and walk right away.

At my next event, I tried a similar way. I met one woman who was open to talking to me, sitting with me etc. we spoke for a while and I did the usual stuff of talking about her, joking and teasing a little etc. and then agreed to a date. During the talk, she mentioned that she noticed me and hoped that I might talk to her. That disappointed me because it meant that this was a missed approach invitation, and that I didn't get the date because of my social skills etc but just because of my fundamentals. I figured that , on fundamentals alone, I'm not going to achieve the dating goals I want. After finishing with that woman I tried to chat with more women around the room and I got basically the same reception as I did at the first event with women saying that they were on their way out when I said hi to them or needing to leave the area to look for somebody elsewhere in the bar.

My question is this. Is my goal actually achievable or is this how it will always be? It seemed like no matter how well I open, approach etc I will just get the same dismissive reception and be judged only by my fundamentals. Can I only get dates with women who would give me approach invitations?Remember that my fundamentals suck so I'm not going to get good approach invitations. What about guys who are ugly, overweight etc but can date attractive women. How did they overcome their deficiencies?

 

[gameboy]

During the talk, she mentioned that she noticed me and hoped that I might talk to her. That disappointed me because it meant that this was a missed approach invitation, and that I didn't get the date because of my social skills etc but just because of my fundamentals.

Why would that disappoint you? It's a compliment for you! And it's proof that there are women out there who like your looks.

You're contradicting yourself when you say in one sentence "my fundamentals are terrible", and in another, "I got the date because of my fundamentals".

I understand that it hurts the self esteem to get blown out all the time. I have days where it's the same for me. But there's always going to be some women who will like you. When that happens, rejoice in the feeling and take it as encouragement to keep going!

 

[raiden]

Why would that disappoint you? It's a compliment for you! And it's proof that there are women out there who like your looks.

You're contradicting yourself when you say in one sentence "my fundamentals are terrible", and in another, "I got the date because of my fundamentals".

I understand that it hurts the self esteem to get blown out all the time. I have days where it's the same for me. But there's always going to be some women who will like you. When that happens, rejoice in the feeling and take it as encouragement to keep going!

I'm basically asking here how I can overcome my poor fundamentals. Can it really be the case that your opener, usage of deep diving, teasing etc really don't matter and that it all comes down to fundamentals? How do guys with poor fundamentals get attractive women if he is effectively rejected before he opens? There must be something that I'm not getting.

Remember also that if I wanted to get dates based on my fundamentals alone, I would just stick with online dating systems. I wasn't completely excited about the women I was meeting from there and that's why I started on these events.

 

[gameboy]

Can it really be the case that your opener, usage of deep diving, teasing etc really don't matter and that it all comes down to fundamentals?

Both matter. This girl likes you but you're still beating yourself up about it. If she didn't like your opener, teasing, social skills as you say, she probably wouldn't have told you that she hoped you would approach her, don't you think?

 

[Will_V]

@raiden it depends what fundamentals you're talking about.

Things like self esteem, charisma, posture, voice tone, eye contact etc are fundamentals and pretty much non negotiable, or at least you'll struggle a lot without them.

You can be not goodlooking and/or dressed poorly (though some kind of style, even if it's a dirty/wild one, goes a long way) and still get good results, as long as the above fundamentals are really dialed in, and you're willing to soldier through some icy waters at the beginning of an approach.

I'm getting middle aged and hopeless, and finding that I want to have a family.

This is typically the attitude that will make it hardest for a guy, where he thinks he's running out of time and getting desperate. He'll start coming off as needy, failing tests because of lack of resolve and willingness to walk away, and get himself in long term deals where he's conceding his standards and frame left and right. Women have a hounds nose for guys in this state, and that's no doubt why a lot of them are judging you quickly as not for them.

It's much better to spend some time being successful with women before choosing one from your dating pool based on how well she performs compared to the rest.

If I were you I'd give myself a real makeover, get trim/muscular, get everything possible dialed in 110%, have some fun and then pick the best of the litter on my own terms.

 

[raiden]

Both matter. This girl likes you but you're still beating yourself up about it. If she didn't like your opener, teasing, social skills as you say, she probably wouldn't have told you that she hoped you would approach her, don't you think?

Yeah but if the whole thing came from an approach invitation which came from my fundamentals. So what exactly was the benefit of approaching or going to an event over just using the dating systems? The whole point was that I have substandard fundamentals and so will get unsatisfactory results from dating systems. So I wanted to go approaching in an attempt to outperform my fundamentals. If that's not even possible, then it feels like I might as well not learn to approach. There are plenty of attractive women at these events but if I'm disqualified before I even walk in because of my fundamentals, what is the point even trying?

 

[Skills]

it happens, but why would you want to make things way harder for yourself...

The worst your fundamentals the more work, hustle and numbers you will have to put in, specially now a days...is retarded... But yes i seen plenty of guys with bad fundamentals getting laid (more in the past) in this environment, unlikely though.... wayyyyyyyyyy more effort.... I seen a lot of guys i help also misdiagnose lack of social dynamics, and attractive actions blaming it on "fundamentals", based on your op i am not sure is the fundamentals, i had a dude here recently i was helping thinking he problem was his fundamentals, i knew it was not, and he got laid same week with a 9 and cont. to get laid with 8 plus after... guys misdiagnose themselves all the time... i did a post on this:

how to know if your fundamentals is the problem

I thought i do a quick post and actually i want people to participate and give their opinion on when to know is your fundamentals.... now my definition of fundamentals i think is different or may not from the definition of the community.... For me fundamentals are the external factors we can...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[gameboy]

what is the point even trying?

You got a woman, so I don't understand your question.

 

[Swati]

Interesting thing, today.

From night game I adopted some attention grabbing fits and sometimes I'd wear them outside to day game and it's weird it's like girls more likely to be reactive to me, more extreme of the good or bad, I don't think anything is "wrong" with me. I changed up my style, wearing a white t shirt and 8 year old pants, not do my hair, looking more "square" it improved my hook rates I feel and insta dated the 2nd girls I approached.

you need to play around with your attainability, appearance is one of your fundamentals.

Again in night game you need to have a bit more of that "flash" fundamental whereas day game it could backfire.

 

[Atlas IV]

Interesting thing, today.

From night game I adopted some attention grabbing fits and sometimes I'd wear them outside to day game and it's weird it's like girls more likely to be reactive to me, more extreme of the good or bad, I don't think anything is "wrong" with me. I changed up my style, wearing a white t shirt and 8 year old pants, not do my hair, looking more "square" it improved my hook rates I feel and insta dated the 2nd girls I approached.

you need to play around with your attainability, appearance is one of your fundamentals.

Again in night game you need to have a bit more of that "flash" fundamental whereas day game it could backfire.

I have had this same realization recently, going from a polarizing flashy style to a somewhat more plain mainstream style (defined mainly by curly hair and baggy pants). It's hugely improved my daygame hook rate.

I now believe less is more when it comes to daygame appearance. I think of it as making yourself into a good-looking blank slate upon which women can project their fantasies. Stylish enough to fit their social frame, not so specific that you pigeonhole yourself as a certain "type".

Then you can focus on charming them on the approach and let them fill in the blank with their imagination.

 

[raiden]

it happens, but why would you want to make things way harder for yourself...

The worst your fundamentals the more work, hustle and numbers you will have to put in, specially now a days...is retarded... But yes i seen plenty of guys with bad fundamentals getting laid (more in the past) in this environment, unlikely though.... wayyyyyyyyyy more effort.... I seen a lot of guys i help also misdiagnose lack of social dynamics, and attractive actions blaming it on "fundamentals", based on your op i am not sure is the fundamentals, i had a dude here recently i was helping thinking he problem was his fundamentals, i knew it was not, and he got laid same week with a 9 and cont. to get laid with 8 plus after... guys misdiagnose themselves all the time... i did a post on this:

how to know if your fundamentals is the problem

I thought i do a quick post and actually i want people to participate and give their opinion on when to know is your fundamentals.... now my definition of fundamentals i think is different or may not from the definition of the community.... For me fundamentals are the external factors we can...

www.skilledseducer.com

I was using the same indirect opener throughout the night. One woman hooked and we agreed a date. Everything else was a blow out. Doesn't that show that the approach, interaction etc is sound but that the fundamentals are the problem? These are blow outs or dismissiveness right at the opener like you mentioned in your post there.

You got a woman, so I don't understand your question.

My aim is to have a slim and mentally stable woman interested in me and then proceed to a relationship or marriage. I had the impression that it was achievable if I just put in the work going on dates and approaching but now I am not sure. I am feeling like no matter how much I improve my dating, interaction and approach skills, those skills would only be relevant to the women who haven't rejected me for my fundamentals before any courtship can start. Then I worry they every slim and mentally stable woman would reject me for my fundamentals and that my goal is therefore unachievable.