FR Post-mortem Analysis of a Coffee Date with a Korean Interior Designer

[Skippy]

Background
I watched some porn the night before to get myself motivated to prepare for this date. I don't know if it helped. On one hand, I was very motivated to prepare after being reminded that yes, sex is amazing. But...I don't know if it translated to giving me a more sexual vibe.

Her: 5'2' Korean Interior Designer, with straw-colored hair in a ponytail wearing a polka-dotted blue dress, maroon doc martens, and fishnet stockings, red lipstick. She probably had double D's and a decent figure, actually.

How we met: I approached her while we walked

Date Structure: Met outside a coffee shop and went to a different coffee shop, and sat at the benches near there. And then she bounced 50 min later, which caught me by surprise.

Venue: Coffee Shop
Initially we were supposed to meet at 6, but she got delayed at work and so we met at 7. She's not the submissive type (she's not quite sold on my lead just yet). When we met up, the shop we planned was closed so we instead went to another one, and she suggested we use their outdoor seating. We were facing each other, unfortunately.

We started with talking about our day, and I asked her how it was at the car dealership and general fluff talk. When our coffee was ready, she told(asked?) me to go get it. I bring back the coffee for us. Eye contact was good throughout.

I start by playing the questions game with her and I ask her about her 3 favorite smells. Her questions were fairly plain, like where I grew up, where I wanted to travel, what time I wake up.

I asked her if she felt she notices different things in guys because of the masks, like their eyes or their fashion sense instead, but she said there was no difference. I tell her how in the past even showing ankles was considered sexual. (Using Beam's gambit)

We talk about living in the city and how we like it here. She mentions that she's been feeling a little lonely ****because one of her friends moved and another one of her friends got a boyfriend.

Setting nonjudgemental frames
Then I asked her what she does in her free time, what she was like in high school. She says that she moved in high school so she was the new kid and it made her feel like a celebrity. I share that in high school I did a lot of clubs but I was also a little religious. But when entering college I became non-religious because I felt that religion was making me feel ashamed of my desires. She relates to this and mentions how religion wants you to be 'Pure'. Bingo... I launch into using Alek's Purity Gambit, and it took off really well with her, she was strongly agreeing, saying that we only have one life, and you have to enjoy it. Here I should've added by talking about how there is a double standard for guys and girls when it comes to having sex partners.

Talking about Past Relationships
Then I asked her about her experience with Korean guys, and she smiled and said it was positive and she told me about her two ex-boyfriends. She asks me about my relationships and I say how I used to do a bunch of casual stuff and then had a girlfriend for a while and how my most passionate relationships tend to have passionate starts. She said that she doesn't look for casual relationships and mostly wants long-term. I wasn't sure how to deal with this negative frame so I just said. I'm open-minded so I have no set opinions with how a relationship will start out and I just see how it goes.

Another question I asked was what was going on in her mind when I first came to talk to her. She said she thought I was aggressive and I asked her if it was a good thing and she emphatically said yes, and she wishes she was like that. So I say yea, I like to go after what I want and otherwise we tend to live life too passively, she agrees.

She has to check her phone for something and I realize it's nearly been an hour so I think about pulling, but she's not done with her coffee just yet. But all of a sudden she says she has to go and she's already called an uber. I ask her what her plans for dinner are but it turns out she doesn't eat dinner. I ask her what she's going to do later on today and she's going to go home, and check her Instagram and look at some nice pictures on her phone. She says she had a good time with me.

What I did well
I have a good way of introducing Alek's Purity gambit, which is to bring up the conversation of high school, go into talking about religion, and then transition into purity. The gambit works well, and it was probably the highlight of this date, her eyes lit up and she had a lot to say about it.

What I could do better

• I think compliance was low. She was not really following my lead and was pretty proactive about deciding where we sit for example.
• We were seated facing each other. I thought this would be alright but the proximity just wasn't there, mainly there's no way to get around the table between us.
• I should've done more sexual prizing, I could've explored the topic of relationships more, in order to do that.
• I was actually planning for us to go get some takeout and come back to my place for dinner, but I didn't anticipate that she doesn't eat dinner. Somewhere before the 1hr mark, I should check-up with her whether she's eaten dinner.
• I didn't know how to properly deal with her "not looking for a casual relationship" frame
• I don't think I teased her at all during the date or used any chase frames. I was so focused on trying to set lots of nonjudgemental frames, and sexual prizing, that I forgot about banter and teasing. And I didn't even do any sexual prizing.
• I should've moved her around instead of just going to that one coffee shop and staying there. Better would've been to avoid that coffee shop altogether but I didn't realize it would have seating.
• ]Honestly, I don't know if there was much sexual tension.
• I didn't use incidental touch whatsoever. Maybe I should have...My theory is that it's not super necessary if the compliance is high. But if compliance is low on the other hand, you probably need all the tools at your disposal to get her horny. Thoughts?
• The comfort with sex talk, wasn't quite there yet (at least on my end). I could've set a frame about why it's natural to talk about sex and why it's almost weird not to.
• Then I could've delivered the 8 orgasms routine.

Lessons Learned

• Ditch the seated-face-to-face date for now. If you have to do it, have her bounce to another location after a bit. I've pulled from it before, but only with girls I met online. Still too many instances where it leads to nothing
• Include proximity, non judgemental frames, and sexual prizing.
• If she's not really following your lead, you need to build more compliance.
• Dont wing the logistics of the date. Go visit the locations beforehand.

I'm a little frustrated because I didn't even get a chance to try and pull. I'm leaving soon for the break and I'm gone for a whole month, unfortunately. So I won't be able to follow up with her. Next time, I'm thinking of inviting her over for lunch or maybe I will take her up on the hiking date that she suggested before—but logistics are a problem there. I will ping her in a couple weeks just to stay on her radar and probably hit her up when I get back.

I feel like I'm just completely guessing with this post-morterm analysis. I'm not really sure I'm pinpointing the main issue and so I made a big list of possible issues. Any thoughts on this would be very much appreciated!

 

[Científico]

• Dont wing the logistics of the date. Go visit the locations beforehand.

I lost two good leads from daygame just like this within the last few months - dates where I did not effectively plan everything and ended up sitting across from the girl, far away, and could not effectively build sexual tension.

We need have plans for these dates where every detail is accounted for, including exact venue (s) and seating selection. After these experiences I actually went to scout out locations for future dates, just like you say.

 

[Velasco]

We were facing each other, unfortunately.

12:45

she was strongly agreeing, saying that we only have one life, and you have to enjoy it. Here I should've added by talking about how there is a double standard for guys and girls when it comes to having sex partners.

Exactly. Would have been a smooth transition here.

Then I asked her about her experience with Korean guys, and she smiled and said it was positive and she told me about her two ex-boyfriends. She asks me about my relationships and I say how I used to do a bunch of casual stuff and then had a girlfriend for a while and how my most passionate relationships tend to have passionate starts. She said that she doesn't look for casual relationships and mostly wants long-term. I wasn't sure how to deal with this negative frame so I just said. I'm open-minded so I have no set opinions with how a relationship will start out and I just see how it goes.

Yes a mistake here. She said her bf/gf experience was positive. then you said YOUR bf/gf experience was positive. And you used to do casual stuff but your most fulfilling relationship was bf/gf.

Setting the frame that, that is what you're looking for. Causing her to fall into that frame ("ya totally! casual is shit " ) cause she's just following your frame.

Now what if instead, you asked her why/what did you like the most about your relationship with your exs?

She gives you why (passionate. fun. great sex).

Now you use that quality, and show how your best relationship, had that quality BUT the relationship was casual.

So she can see how she can get what she wants (the quality she liked about her exs) in your frame (casual relationship).

you can make it even more alluring by contrasting it with your bf/gf relationships showing how they did not have that quality because xyz as a pace.

I ask her what she's going to do later on today and she's going to go home, and check her Instagram and look at some nice pictures on her phone. She says she had a good time with me.

Not sexually aroused (purity frame was good tho for "I'm a guy who gets it" points. But it doesn't arouse her like say an '8 orgasm routine' would).

but I didn't anticipate that she doesn't eat dinner.

lol. Again she was not sexually aroused enough hence bullshit reason to not continue the date. the fact that you believed she doesn't eat dinner tells me you still have a ways to go

I don't think I teased her at all during the date or used any chase frames. I was so focused on trying to set lots of nonjudgemental frames, and sexual prizing, that I forgot about banter and teasing. And I didn't even do any sexual prizing.

its more about just getting the conversation around topics alek talks about this article under the sub-title, "introducing the topic of sex" and just talking about them in a way where you show her "you get it"

I should've moved her around instead of just going to that one coffee shop and staying there. Better would've been to avoid that coffee shop altogether but I didn't realize it would have seating.

No staying in that coffee shop was fine. Again see the video I linked above. In all those date infields, he stays seated with her in one location for the entire duration of the date, then pulls to his apartment. Bouncing her around to make her feel like she knows you better or whatever effect its suppose to accomplish is bullshit.

I didn't use incidental touch whatsoever. Maybe I should have...My theory is that it's not super necessary if the compliance is high. But if compliance is low on the other hand, you probably need all the tools at your disposal to get her horny. Thoughts?

Not necessary. Increase attraction via whichever compliance generating tactic is natural to you + similarity/relatability + make her horny via eyes, thoughts/related stories on topics (the ones above) you discuss.

Next time, I'm thinking of inviting her over for lunch or maybe I will take her up on the hiking date that she suggested before—but logistics are a problem there.

Don't sacrifice logistics to please a girl you haven't fucked. Get the lay in first. Then logistics are less important (due to having very high compliance from already sleeping with her). But in all honestly, this one is very likely a dead lead or will be flakey as fuck in terms of getting her to come out again (she will for sure LOVE the attention you give her tho). But at least you now know what you'll need to work on for the next girl you take on a date ends the way you intend it to end

 

[Skippy]

12:45

ah yes, good point

Yes a mistake here. She said her bf/gf experience was positive. then you said YOUR bf/gf experience was positive. And you used to do casual stuff but your most fulfilling relationship was bf/gf.

Setting the frame that, that is what you're looking for. Causing her to fall into that frame ("ya totally! casual is shit " ) cause she's just following your frame.

Now what if instead, you asked her why/what did you like the most about your relationship with your exs?

She gives you why (passionate. fun. great sex).

Now you use that quality, and show how your best relationship, had that quality BUT the relationship was casual.

So she can see how she can get what she wants (the quality she liked about her exs) in your frame (casual relationship).

you can make it even more alluring by contrasting it with your bf/gf relationships showing how they did not have that quality because xyz as a pace.

Wow that's a neat way to deal with that frame! and I can see how I might have unintentionally given off the wrong idea though

Not sexually aroused (purity frame was good tho for "I'm a guy who gets it" points. But it doesn't arouse her like say an '8 orgasm routine' would).

lol. Again she was not sexually aroused enough hence bullshit reason to not continue the date. the fact that you believed she doesn't eat dinner tells me you still have a ways to go

I see lol, I think sexual arousal on dates is a sticking point of mine, so I'll have to pay attention to using sex talk to arouse her. It reminds me of this other date where the girl also abruptly got up and left after an hour and 40 min saying she had to be up early. I think I was missing sexual arousal in that case too. Similar to this date, I set a slight non-judgemental frame, but no sex talk, although I did some light kino.

its more about just getting the conversation around topics alek talks about this article under the sub-title, "introducing the topic of sex" and just talking about them in a way where you show her "you get it"

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind!

No staying in that coffee shop was fine. Again see the video I linked above. In all those date infields, he stays seated with her in one location for the entire duration of the date, then pulls to his apartment. Bouncing her around to make her feel like she knows you better or whatever effect its suppose to accomplish is bullshit.

oh okay, yea I've had a lot of dates from online in the past where we just sat face to face for food and they would almost always come back to my place (but because I would just wing the conversation I would get lots of LMR). So I could see that it's doable from daygame as long as I'm setting the right frames and arousing her. It'll require me to be solid in all the main aspects but now the roadmap is clearer

But in all honestly, this one is very likely a dead lead or will be flakey as fuck in terms of getting her to come out again (she will for sure LOVE the attention you give her tho). But at least you now know what you'll need to work on for the next girl you take on a date ends the way you intend it to end

Agreed, this one is likely a dead lead but your analysis was very much appreciated! I've had so many of these simple, yet uneventful, face-to-face dates that I was left scratching my head trying to figure out what's wrong. This helped me understand what I need to work on now and it will help me better troubleshoot as well

 

[Beck Bass]

I watched some porn the night before to get myself motivated to prepare for this date.

lol

fishnet stockings, red lipstick. She probably had double D's and a decent figure

Damnnnn...

I approached her while we walked

I'm a fucking woosy and never approached a girl during the day, so I won't judge you, much hehe

We were facing each other, unfortunately.

Take advantage of that to eye fuck her hard, until she wanna sit on or lap or something!

When our coffee was ready, she told(asked?) me to go get it.

You should at least protest when I girl tells you what to do. If it was me, I would tell her "yeah sure, right after you", and like raise my chin to defy her, or "ok, so what you're gonna give me in return?" and a smirk, or, to play with the idea that you're not even an item and she thinks she can tell you what to do, to make her think about sex... like "you like ordering guys in bed too?"

Alek's Purity Gambit

How are those panning out? I got curious with all the stuff Alek posted last year with those "gambits" but haven't really read his articles yet. I would love some crazy stuff to spice up my seductions.

She said that she doesn't look for casual relationships and mostly wants long-term.

When I hear this type of stuff, it sounds to me more like a test than an actual affirmation. I don't quite think it's a negative thing, if she's not down for casual sex, you will find out when you try to bed her. But getting defensive when she says that type of stuff can be pretty deadly (as taking most stuff women say at face value, anyway).

she thought I was aggressive and I asked her if it was a good thing

A friend of mine told me the way I approach girls is pretty aggressive, which I was a bit surprised by (I'm pretty direct and to the point, so I guess you could say I'm aggressive...). I was looking at some girls at the mall, that were talking loud looking at a vitrine (I was trying to approach, but couldn't find the balls to do it), and he told me "wow, the way you stared at those girls... even I felt intimidated lol". I guess being aggressive for a man, in general is good, unless you're being creepy/not being understanding of girls and what they are trying to communicate.

I was actually planning for us to go get some takeout and come back to my place for dinner, but I didn't anticipate that she doesn't eat dinner.

You should be looking for the next move, eventually the girl will just leave if things don't move forward, always be looking to close (and trying to find ways to).

don't think I teased her at all during the date or used any chase frames

Yep, that should be a pretty crucial part of your game, depending on your personality, of course... Some guys don't like being too flirty (just like some girls don't have much of a sense of humor, I suppose).
I think you should work on your frame, like think about the way you think women should treat you and what type of stuff they can getaway with, and what not. This will have a direct impact on your game, people treat you how you allow them to, if the girl senses weakness, she will have no mercy, just like if you demand she treats you in a certain way, she can grow a big respect for you... and your dong lol. Some guys have trouble saying stuff that could lose them girls, but if you don't assert yourself, you will lose even more girls, because most won't respect you (not saying this is totally your case, but I sense you could use a stronger frame).

12:45

Lol that virgin but experienced thing killed me, strong strong game there.

 

[Skippy]

Take advantage of that to eye fuck her hard, until she wanna sit on or lap or something!

True I can give her good eye contact, at least!

When I hear this type of stuff, it sounds to me more like a test than an actual affirmation. I don't quite think it's a negative thing, if she's not down for casual sex, you will find out when you try to bed her. But getting defensive when she says that type of stuff can be pretty deadly (as taking most stuff women say at face value, anyway).

Oh yea I guess another way would've been to just ignore it and change the subject or to avoid that topic in the first place. I forget how we even came upon that topic

A friend of mine told me the way I approach girls is pretty aggressive, which I was a bit surprised by (I'm pretty direct and to the point, so I guess you could say I'm aggressive...). I was looking at some girls at the mall, that were talking loud looking at a vitrine (I was trying to approach, but couldn't find the balls to do it), and he told me "wow, the way you stared at those girls... even I felt intimidated lol". I guess being aggressive for a man, in general is good, unless you're being creepy/not being understanding of girls and what they are trying to communicate.

Yeah it could also be a matter of perception and different girls might describe your approach differently. English was not her native language (although her english was passable) so she might've actually meant 'forward' or 'bold' instead of 'aggressive'. But yea it was important to clarify if she thought that was a good thing or a bad thing, otherwise, the uncertainty would've lingered.

How are those panning out? I got curious with all the stuff Alek posted last year with those "gambits" but haven't really read his articles yet. I would love some crazy stuff to spice up my seductions.

Highly highly recommended! It takes a little bit of practice at first, but when they work, they can make the interaction much more fun.

I found purity gambit to be my favorite. I haven't tested all of them and I probably have to do a better job testing the other ones as well, but so far I got the best reactions with purity gambit and it's my personal favorite for handling ASD frames. Actually, I think the mistake I was making other times was going into sex prizing before handling asd frames thoroughly

Spoiler: Example from an old FR

Date with a Japanese girl, getting hit with asd.

Unfortunately it was pretty packed in the ice cream place so we just found seats sitting across from each other again. she asks me if I know what the word Japaneasy means. and she asked if I thought Japanese girls were easy. I said "is that what people refer to it by ?" I used this to go into some of alek's sex talk routines. I started by saying well for me, one thing I like in a woman is submissiveness (she says "oh yea I know what you mean" lol...not the reaction I was expecting but also not surprised...So I specify that I mean submitting to her desires. and that one of the paradoxes of women is that they'll never be satisfied. So I cover the sexual frustration routine as well and then in the end ask her if she knew that girls can orgasm 8 different ways. She had no idea but I didn't go into that routine. So she continues by asking about japaneasy and asks again if I think japanese girls are easy. So I said, you know I haven't been on too many dates with japanese girls because theres just not that many in the US comparatively. But I've dated girls from a wide set of backgrounds and that I don't look at it that way. I tell her that I find that my most passionate relationships also had passionate beginnings. She tells me that I'm gentle. I'm not sure what she meant by that so I respond "I'm not so gentle in some ways "

You should be looking for the next move, eventually the girl will just leave if things don't move forward, always be looking to close (and trying to find ways to).

Makes sense, I did have a bit of hesitancy. Actually, I regret watching porn the day of. It made me put too much pressure on myself to not fuck it up and as a result, I was a little more outcome dependent.

Yep, that should be a pretty crucial part of your game, depending on your personality, of course... Some guys don't like being too flirty (just like some girls don't have much of a sense of humor, I suppose).
I think you should work on your frame, like think about the way you think women should treat you and what type of stuff they can getaway with, and what not. This will have a direct impact on your game, people treat you how you allow them to, if the girl senses weakness, she will have no mercy, just like if you demand she treats you in a certain way, she can grow a big respect for you... and your dong lol. Some guys have trouble saying stuff that could lose them girls, but if you don't assert yourself, you will lose even more girls, because most won't respect you (not saying this is totally your case, but I sense you could use a stronger frame).

Agreed. Interestingly, I find that some girls are able to draw out that flirty side of me really well. While with others, not so much. There's probably a mindset shift that I can do so that I can be more consistent.

And yeah good point on the frame. This girl was outframing me a lot and she had not fully accepted my lead. For example, she was making decisions on where we would sit, when we were deciding where to go, I suggested the coffee place and she threw out another suggestion. (I think it was more like a test to see how decisive I was)

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Beck Bass]

Highly highly recommended! It takes a little bit of practice at first, but when they work, they can make the interaction much more fun.

Ohh gonna be reading those then, for sure, I've been reading more on getting over my approach anxiety ("excitment"? I already am pretty good on apporaching girls at night, but when I try to approach during the day I fear coming out to strong and scaring the girl, so I start doubting myself and end up not approaching...) but those will be next then.

Thanks for the feedback!

No problem, thank you for sharing your experiences with us