FU Really Hot (Actually) (Possible Nympho) Hinge Girl Many lessons learned and one BIG LESSON)

[omgroflcopter]

Guys.... this one hurts. I got into GC January 2019, and I started from basically nothing. It took months of complete blowouts, then months of dates that went nowhere, then a mediocre girl I settled for to improve my skills, and then I had recently reached the point where I was getting decent hookups with decent quality girls. 7.5-8. Mostly Day game. COVID interfered with me improving my game, but recently I had DG and got some 8s and 9s numbers and everything was looking up.

And then this happened...

Just to preface, despite the grim opening, I realize this is a learning experience. I just haven't had one that stung this bad in awhile. Probably because I know where I fucked up, but I would love to hear some advice from some of the advanced guys. I have had these stinging moments before and I know that in the end they always change me for the better. All things must and will pass. Anyway, here is the sting.

Sorry to say it wasn't a cold approach. Since quarantine, I decided to download hinge. I knew I wasn't going to be cold approaching a lot and figured this would be good for some experience, and it has been. But I don't pay to much attention to the app. Most of the girls I went on dates with from it were mediocre. And it is a lot of work and messaging just to get a mediocre date. And they just don't give you the same kind of respect as a girl you cold approach. But one morning I am sitting doing some research for work, and I get a notification someone liked me. She is very pretty, 8.5 on her hinge. Tall, brunette, gorgeous bright blue eyes, nice ass. I message her immediately, "Shouldn't you be working?". She responds asking me if I'm projecting. We go into some flirtatious banter with good chemistry. I build a connection with her over my love for animals and mention I am a vegetarian and that I just applied for a summer legal position with the animal legal defense fund. I know this will show a lot of value and connection. Whatever, long story short, we exchange numbers and plan a date. What is relevant about the date planning is that it is for Friday night and she mentions that we can take the dog she is watching for a walk or just hang out at her place. I recognized this as a sign that she wants to be intimate. Inviting me over without ever having met me and making that very clear in a subtle way. My thoughts were that this was going to be easy.

I lyft over to her apartment and am waiting outside at 7pm on friday night. I text her to come down and when she walks out the door, she is gorgeous. She's a nine guys, and I mean really. She is just dressed amazingly, this silk top with spaghetti straps. Gorgeous flowing hair and those eyes. We begin to take her dog for a walk and grab cupcakes. She mentions that we can go sit somewhere or go back to her apartment. This is one of my first mistakes that is recurring in this interaction and in my interactions with girls overall. I will take the less "sexual route" out of my own nerves and the fear that they will think I am trying to hard to sleep with them. I overthink, like I do many things in life. I level my safe into saying if you go sit outside she will be more likely to sleep with you later instead of jumping through the escalation window with vigor like I should be. Anyway I shot myself in the foot here, but she helped me out. She goes lets look at a bench unless it is wet. I look at the bench and think this bench is fine. She goes this bench is filthy. And so we both agree to go up to her apartment.

I know usually it is best to escalate quickly once you are in a location you can get together but this is obviously a first date and so we sit and we chat and drink wine. Conversation was good, I was flirtatious. She poured me more wine without me asking so I took this as a sign she wanted me to stay. I told her my logistics were not great for a long term thing (Which is the truth) as I am moving soon. But anyway we talk and flirt and eventually I say we should sit on the couch and she complies. Maybe I should have went for this earlier but I don' think this is a big mistake.

On the couch same thing, more talking and flirting. Find out she has some daddy issues, nothing crazy significant, just more of a not totally present father figure when she was growing up, but I take this as somewhat of a sign, and I think I got a lot of recurring signs that this girl was a freak. I mean her inviting me over on a first date was enough but you will see there is more. Eventually, we have that moment where we flirt about something and then she looks down submissively and I kiss her. We start making out and hooking up and everything is good.

We slowdown at somepoint for whatever reason. We start talking, and she asks me if she is good kisser. She says she never really has kissed anyone who likes to tongue kiss before. And I tell her that I liked how she did it but then needs to escalate a bit more into tongue kissing harder. She said a lot of things like this that made me question whether she was a freak and whether she was lying. She also said she had never kissed on a first date somewhere in this time frame. Given the circumstance, you can see why I found this hard to believe. We also got into a conversation around this time about how she use to hangout with these old richer dudes in the city when she was in college and went to parties at her mansion. But she "was never one of those girls who did anything". I played all of these off fine I think and just kind of dismissed them and smiled. So, I am not quite sure what to make of these if anyone has any clue. Another key one was when we were making out and I challenged her to a staring contest to build sexual tension and she said "They say whoever looks away his more submissive."

So we were hooking up and I got some lmr when it came to taking off her shirt, but I got that off. I sucked on her tits and she loved it. The big LMR issue though came when I tried to get her pants off. She just kept saying "It's the first date, etc." I tried a few times and kept it getting that response. She would say "Next time". Evetnually though she had to take the dog outside. So we went to take the dog outside and while this was getting in the way of the seduction, she bending over very much to put the leash on the dog and to get ready. I had made comments about how nice her ass was and she had purposely touched her ass against me before in a spooning position. So when she was bending over like this, I went over and grabbed her from behind and rubbed her and put myself against her while she got the dog ready. We ended up taking the dog out and the conversation was normal. One thing of note was I complimented her on her ass and she said "It looks better with the jeans off but you can see that next time".

When we got back upstairs she told me that I should call an uber home, I used the bathroom and then we sat on the couch again and started hooking up. During our hookup though I again got the LMR when it came to unbuttoning he pants. She would leave them unbuttoned for a bit and the eventually button them backup.

By this point it was getting close to 1am and I was tired. She had made it sound like there would be a second date. I am smart enough to know, and have developed my intution enough to know I probably should have kept pushing. She told me to call a lyft, yet, she continued to hook up with me. This whole time she was pushing me, I believe to fuck her like a whore. I think what I probably should have done here is just attacked her in a passionate flurry until I got a hard NO. Then I could have thrown in the towel. Instead what happened was my lyft came and I was tired and didn't want to forfeit the $20 and was nervous because I have had ED issues in the past. She walked me to the door in a hurry and said enjoy the ride back to my area.

Anyway, when I woke up the next morning I went to look at her hinge and she removed me. I thought it might be an autorejection thing so I sent her a sweet message along the lines of "Really nice meeting you, glad we have a lot in common, would love to get together late in the week ". I of course got back the message Your a great guy but I just didn't feel the connection I was looking for, enjoy the rest of your time here ".

So, I think my big mistake was not pushing aggresivley through the lmr. She gave me all the signs she wanted to fuck hard but I didn't grab my balls and actually do it. This girl was HOT like way to hot to be doing this kind of thing on a dating app. So the big lesson I learned, correct me if I'm wrong, PUSH FOR SEX UNTIL YOU A GET A HARD NO". Obviously in our society nowadays that is frowned upon but I think that is what I should have done. I think this girl wanted to be my submissive whore but I didn't let her. I let my sweet nature say, "You have so much in common, she is seeding a second date, she is resisting, just wait till next time". No. I should have pushed like a man. And I should have removed my emotions from the pickup. I have been in the game long enough to know emotions for a girl, whether becasue she is pretty or because you like her, never help anything.

If anyone has any thoughts or advice I would love to hear it. This one stung... a lot. But I know this is part of the process and I have grown from these big stings more than anything. This game is not easy. I just followed that fuck up with another go nowhere date. But I think that was just a lack of chemistry. But, I will move forward. That is life.

To completeing the circle & always pushing for the lay.

Omgroflcopter

 

[FrostD]

I am not an expert by any means, but I do want to give my two cents and if anyone else wants to interject, I would love to hear that as well.

Personally, I think it just could be your fundamentals. After all, you did say she was "way too hot to be on a dating app". I mean there is nothing wrong with that at all, but she could've thought of you as lesser value and wanted you to chase her. Women sometimes find personal satisfaction in teasing men that they don't think are strong in a confident sense. I do believe you should've kept persisting, although I know how emotionally draining that can be because you clearly know she is in control in that situation which would frustrate me 100%. With due time, I feel like your fundamentals and your interactions with women will protrude worthiness and confidence. Not saying you don't right now, but if that woman thought you were of higher value, such LMR might've been ruled out passed the first instance. She also seemed to projecting her value to you when saying she was wealthy guys as well in college. Just some things to think about, and when she bent over and you grinded on her from behind while she was getting the dog - that was savage. I look forward to hearing from you again!

 

[omgroflcopter]

I don't think it was a value thing honestly. Well, I suppose it could have been a little. By being on a dating app it definitely doesn't raise your value as much as a girl on a cold approach. I am somewhat successful in that I am doing a lot of things she wants to do which I think helped my value. She also was also saying a lot of things that made me think she saw me as high value.

That being said, I am still definitely in a place where I wasn't putting myself in the high-value position I truly deserve. My self-worth has raised 50 fold since I started game, but I know there is still more to do and she could have sensed this to a degree which could have increased lmr. Or maybe it was because I met her on a dating app. Either way, I am going to make more of an effort to conciously remind myself I am worth it and not pedestal women. She was just hotter than the girls I usually go out with, especially on dating apps. Logically speaking though, I know am at least equal value to her because of my successes in my life and my personality, but I digress. Going to always keep that in my mind.

But she could have been using me for some crazy chick satisfaction too, that makes sense. But my read as an intermediate is I just failed to push hard enough. Because she is hotter she is going to have tougher tests. And I failed that here.

But ya should have pushed harder. I get tired at 1am man lol. Should have gone just super hard. Persistence and push to sex. Thanks for your advice!!

 

[FrostD]

I completely understand! The more you are in tune with your fundamentals and the more LMR you face as you continue game, I am sure that you will be able to laugh at future LMR and know you can handle it with no question.

Looking forward to following your journey! Good luck homie.

 

[Científico]

IMO this one isnt as clear cut as your other field report. She was giving you serious LMR but I think you were doing a decent job continuing to push. I've had cases like this too that are plerplexing - it reminds me of a FR++ I wrote on here back in February or so. Better fundamentals might help but that is always something anyone can improve. There might be more actionable lessons to learn here.

Maybe fractionate more? Push hard for sex until you get a hard no, then remove that attention completely for a while before trying again. We have to remember not to reward unfavorable behavior.

 

[omgroflcopter]

IMO this one isnt as clear cut as your other field report. She was giving you serious LMR but I think you were doing a decent job continuing to push. I've had cases like this too that are plerplexing - it reminds me of a FR++ I wrote on here back in February or so. Better fundamentals might help but that is always something anyone can improve. There might be more actionable lessons to learn here.

Maybe fractionate more? Push hard for sex until you get a hard no, then remove that attention completely for a while before trying again. We have to remember not to reward unfavorable behavior.

Ya my field report isn't as well as written as the attorney one. Honestly, this girl was definitley just a sex addict trying to seduce me/get me to seduce her. I DEFINTELY should have fractionated more and sex talked more. I was given chances and just didn't do it because I haven't gotten to the point (unitl now) in game where I need to do this. I think all of this would have just turned her on more and made a lot less resistance. But also, I should have just pushed for it after my lyft arrived and walked the 1.5 hours home, I wouldn't have minded lol.

Two FRs and a lot of lessons from both:
1. Use sex talk once you are connecting with a girl
2. Touch more on dates
3. Be ready for AND pass the final shit test
4. Fractionate and use pattern interrupts to beat lmr
5. Push for sex until you cannot because odds are VERY high you will not see the girl again

Thanks again for your comments Cientificio, they were very helpful. Especially the one about the final shit test.

 

[Chase]

@omgroflcopter,

Nice work here. And nice progress from January 2019!

You'll continue to improve. The ones that hurt give you clear lessons that tend to crystalize more in your head and give you tools and pathways to avoid those same issues with future gals.

This girl was out of your normal league from the sounds of it, and you were a little nervous, but you pushed through the seduction and got about 93% of the way there (so very good!). There are probably things you could've done better during the actual conversation/seduction to reduce or avoid the LMR, but the details in your report aren't super clear so I can't say what those might've been.

Some specific feedback:

She mentions that we can go sit somewhere or go back to her apartment. This is one of my first mistakes that is recurring in this interaction and in my interactions with girls overall. I will take the less "sexual route" out of my own nerves and the fear that they will think I am trying to hard to sleep with them. I overthink, like I do many things in life. I level my safe into saying if you go sit outside she will be more likely to sleep with you later instead of jumping through the escalation window with vigor like I should be. Anyway I shot myself in the foot here, but she helped me out. She goes lets look at a bench unless it is wet. I look at the bench and think this bench is fine. She goes this bench is filthy. And so we both agree to go up to her apartment.

I tend to prefer a bit of a progression in dates, so if you told her, "Let's have a drink on a bench, then head to yours after," it gives you a chance to break out of small talk on the bench, build up the vibe, then pull her to her place, and by the time you're getting to her place there is a feeling that things are growing increasingly intimate.

So it is not necessarily bad to start outside.

However, you do need to have a plan. If you'll just sit outside indefinitely and not know when to pull, or how to seed the pull, you might hang yourself out to dry.

Easiest way in a situation like this is just to tell her the plan: "Let's have one drink on the bench first and enjoy the outdoors. Then it'd be really nice to head to yours after."

I know usually it is best to escalate quickly once you are in a location you can get together but this is obviously a first date and so we sit and we chat and drink wine.

This was the right call. You don't want to go straight into escalation on crossing the threshold into her place if she's a stranger and you have no face time with her at that point... unless you are getting some serious indications she's down for that.

She says she never really has kissed anyone who likes to tongue kiss before. And I tell her that I liked how she did it but then needs to escalate a bit more into tongue kissing harder.

Good opportunity to teach her some moves if you know a few.

"Well, I'll tell you a secret... one of the best tips to good tongue-kissing is to do it gently. A lot of people get too excited and try to ram their tongues down your throat. Here, I'll show you the wrong way to do it... and then the wrong. Why don't you try ramming your tongue down my throat. All right, now I'm going to do it to you, we'll see how you like that. Too much, right? Now let's try it gentle. I'll do it to you then I want you to do it to me. Just like this."

She said a lot of things like this that made me question whether she was a freak and whether she was lying.

You're thinking way too much about this during a seduction and make-out.

That maybe can't be helped when you're still fairly new.

But as you increase in experience, you will want to be more focused in the moment, less worried about analyzing her words in the midst of the escalation. You can think about that later. I doubt you'll forget.

Focus on the moment, and it will be much easier to make the correct, intuitive moves.

Given the circumstance, you can see why I found this hard to believe.

Again, want to get your head space away from here at this point. Think about this later, not during the escalation. Just file it away and come back to it.

I played all of these off fine I think and just kind of dismissed them and smiled. So, I am not quite sure what to make of these if anyone has any clue. Another key one was when we were making out and I challenged her to a staring contest to build sexual tension and she said "They say whoever looks away his more submissive."

People can know things and say things without being that experienced.

She could also be fudging her past ("I didn't do anything... well, except a few times, but those don't count...").

There's no way to know until you know her better. And you're not going to get to know her that much better until your penis has been in her.

So focus on that first, and worry about what her true backstory is later.

So we were hooking up and I got some lmr when it came to taking off her shirt, but I got that off. I sucked on her tits and she loved it. The big LMR issue though came when I tried to get her pants off.

First mistake: going for the shirt first.

Leave the shirt on. Most girls are used to that coming off first. The most typical, standard guy escalation goes:

1. Make-out
2. Feel her boobs
3. Take her shirt off
4. Suck those titties
5. Take her pants off
6. Condom on
7. Sex

Every girl who's been with more than 2 men knows this escalation sequence inside and out, and she knows exactly where she's going to stop it at. Usually it goes something like "Once my shirt comes off, we stop." The easy way to avoid hitting her stop point is to step around it. The easiest way to do that is to take her shirt off last (i.e., once your cock is in her).

She just kept saying "It's the first date, etc." I tried a few times and kept it getting that response. She would say "Next time".

Did you do anything to address this resistance?

She is talking, she is raising objections. Not sure if you're saying anything back and handling those objections. It sounds like you're just starting and stopping, starting and stopping.

You need to deal with her objections, usually verbally. If you can't address them, they are not going to just disappear, unless you are skillful enough with your physical escalation and/or she is already attracted enough that you can overcome her logical reasons with pure physical escalation.

So we went to take the dog outside and while this was getting in the way of the seduction, she bending over very much to put the leash on the dog and to get ready. I had made comments about how nice her ass was and she had purposely touched her ass against me before in a spooning position. So when she was bending over like this, I went over and grabbed her from behind and rubbed her and put myself against her while she got the dog ready. We ended up taking the dog out and the conversation was normal. One thing of note was I complimented her on her ass and she said "It looks better with the jeans off but you can see that next time".

She's being a cocktease here, and you are following.

Following her while she walks the dog. Following her with your compliments. Following with your grab-ass. Following right into her traps.

I know it is sexy when she is sticking that ass in your face. But her clothes are on and she is not bending over for you to stick your dick in. She is putting on a show to test how you'll react. Unless you have a very confident, assertive sexual demeanor, this kind of chase-y over-sexualization when she is leading you around will usually tend to backfire.

e.g., stand back and comment on it: "Oh, it's a nice view, from over here." When she tells you it looks better naked but you'll see that next time, you need to play that off with a comment like, "I've already seen it. I've got x-ray vision. It's a unique gift... helpful with guessing games."

When we got back upstairs she told me that I should call an uber home, I used the bathroom and then we sat on the couch again and started hooking up.

That's the moment of truth right there.

Did you handle this objection?

I don't see any comments here about what you were saying or how you disarmed her trying to scoot you out of her place.

It looks like you were just trying to steam roll her with make-outs... get her hot and heavy enough she forgot all about her "Call your Uber" objection.

Were you doing anything like this?:

Her: It's time for you to call an Uber.​

​

You: I don't want to call an Uber. Your place is really comfortable. It's cozy here. [nuzzle into her]​

​

Her: Well, you can't stay.​

​

You: Can't I? It's so nice though. I feel really comfortable with you. I'm a good house guest, I promise. I always put the seat down, and I clean my own dishes.​

​

Her: [laughs] Noooo, you can't staaaay!​

​

You: I'll be good, I promise. We will only do things that we both agree we want to do.​

​

Her: [laughs] Okay. But only things we both want to do!​

​

You: Scout's honor!​

During our hookup though I again got the LMR when it came to unbuttoning he pants. She would leave them unbuttoned for a bit and the eventually button them backup.

Were you rubbing her pussy from the outside?

Sticking your hand down her pants first and fingering them?

Pants should not be coming off until there is a reason for them to come off -- and the reason should be so that your fingers, which she is already loving on her pussy, have even better access to it to pleasure her even more.

I think what I probably should have done here is just attacked her in a passionate flurry until I got a hard NO. Then I could have thrown in the towel.

No.

She does not sound like she was ready for that enough yet.

She was into you enough to make-out with you, but not aroused enough yet.

See my comments above. You needed to handle her objections and escalate better to get her to that point.

Then you could've attacked her passionately at some point -- once she was already warmed up.

She walked me to the door in a hurry and said enjoy the ride back to my area.

Anyway, when I woke up the next morning I went to look at her hinge and she removed me. I thought it might be an autorejection thing so I sent her a sweet message along the lines of "Really nice meeting you, glad we have a lot in common, would love to get together late in the week ". I of course got back the message Your a great guy but I just didn't feel the connection I was looking for, enjoy the rest of your time here ".

Yeah, past a certain point she is going to start to think, "I'm just not feeling it with this guy," and, "This guy isn't able to do for me what I need."

After you're trying to escalate for a while and it doesn't go anywhere, girls will get tired of it and give up on it. How soon they tire of it greatly depends on how much they like you and how experienced they are. (you know... you can make-out like this for ages with inexperienced girls and they may never tire of it. The more experienced the girl is though, the more your escalation needs to be on point. So don't beat yourself up on this too much -- by the sound of what this girl was telling you, she's probably got a fair bit of experience on you. Don't worry -- you'll get there )

She gave me all the signs she wanted to fuck hard but I didn't grab my balls and actually do it.

It was not just about "grabbing your balls and doing it."

She would've hard-stopped you had you just tried what you were doing, but more forcefully/aggressively. At least that's my read from this report.

You needed to handle her objections, you needed to escalate better (ditch the shirt; rub the pussy over the pants, then in the pants, before you try to take off the pants), you needed to not chase (and instead playfully invalidate her efforts to cocktease you).

This girl was a bit outside your level of game, in terms of how she was working it during the escalation and how she maintained control. So the odds were not much in your favor. But she DID like you, she WAS a freak (it sounds like)... she was just looking for a guy with a bit more escalation experience than you had.

This girl was HOT like way to hot to be doing this kind of thing on a dating app.

If she's on a dating app, she is going to tend to do "these kinds of things" (i.e., take guys straight to her place, make out with them right away, let them suck on her boobs, shag them if they can escalate well and beat her resistance). This is the primary function of dating apps... it's 'bedroom yells', not 'wedding bells' she's seeking.

Also keep in mind, there are beautiful women with high sex drives. These women tend to have lower standards (not to say you're not on her level of attractiveness, but if you're a year, still very in-your-head during the escalation, and describing this girl as out of your league in you probably still have some work to do on appearance, confidence, game, etc.). They also tend to be a lot more open to sex in general.

So -- she was probably a fairly easy lay for anyone reasonably experienced.

You weren't quite there yet. But you got close! You'll get over that hump with future girls like her, don't worry.

There are more beautiful girls with high sex drives.

As you improve, you will also start to lay the beautiful girls with more normal sex drives as well (the ones who are going to tend not to be on dating apps). Which it sort of sounds like what you're looking for... I assume if you didn't care you wouldn't have been so heavily fixated on trying to figure out her sexual history from the few scraps of information she threw out

So the big lesson I learned, correct me if I'm wrong, PUSH FOR SEX UNTIL YOU A GET A HARD NO". Obviously in our society nowadays that is frowned upon but I think that is what I should have done. I think this girl wanted to be my submissive whore but I didn't let her. I let my sweet nature say, "You have so much in common, she is seeding a second date, she is resisting, just wait till next time". No. I should have pushed like a man.

Well sort, of but also sort of not.

Yes, you should've persisted more and hung in there.

No, going ULTRA AGGRESSIVE CAVEMAN MODE does not sound like it would've redeemed this one for you.

You needed to be overcoming objections, not chasing, and escalating more smoothly and more seductively. You also needed to be focused on the girl, and not lost in analysis trying to piece together her backstory from several likely-misleading hints and clues (if you want to know her backstory, shag her FIRST, then in the after-glow, when her brain is awash with oxytocin, the trust hormone, then ask her... that is when you will get the most honest answers she'll give you. It's called 'pumping her for information', not 'asking her for information and then afterwards pumping her'!).

And I should have removed my emotions from the pickup. I have been in the game long enough to know emotions for a girl, whether becasue she is pretty or because you like her, never help anything.

Yes, this is good.

Well -- you need to be focused on the girl. Enjoying her, in the moment. Not rushing, not analyzing, not chasing or feeling needy.

You are still feeling emotions... you will always feel something. But it should just be a focus on being in the moment, enjoying the interaction with her, looking for ways to bring her more pleasure.

If you are continually bringing her more and more pleasure while you're escalating with her, it is inevitable that at some point you'll end up inside her.

If anyone has any thoughts or advice I would love to hear it. This one stung... a lot. But I know this is part of the process and I have grown from these big stings more than anything. This game is not easy. I just followed that fuck up with another go nowhere date. But I think that was just a lack of chemistry. But, I will move forward. That is life.

The ones that sting are good.

You remember them, and you remember the lessons you learn from them, better.

The lack of chemistry was not a killer. She was making out with you, she was having you suck on her breasts, and she would've gone to bed with you had you disarmed her objections and escalated in a smoother, more enjoyable way for her.

You did well here with a girl you found intimidating and who was outside your usual realm of experience.

You didn't get the lay this time, but you get a few more shots like this, and you'll be closing girls like her soon.

Chase

 

[Velasco]

Easiest way in a situation like this is just to tell her the plan: "Let's have one drink on the bench first and enjoy the outdoors. Then it'd be really nice to head to yours after."

For you, does this yield better results than not pre-empting going to the sex location before you've charmed her?

Because for me this is eliminating the "one thing lead to another" / "spoiling the movie" effect that is crucial for most seductions to go down.

Sticking your hand down her pants first and fingering them?

Pants should not be coming off until there is a reason for them to come off -- and the reason should be so that your fingers, which she is already loving on her pussy, have even better access to it to pleasure her even more.

A great move I've used recently with a chick that was giving me resistance to me taking her pants off, was positioning her in front of me like this

in the bedroom, with my back against the bed frame. and then asking her how she masturbates. to porn or uses her imagination. I then took her hand and then guided it, under her pants, and started playing with her clit using her hand. Then moved it to the side (her hand), and then saying, "I know how you did it" and then started playing with her with my own hands. Getting her wet, then asking her, "fuck your so wet (even if she isn't that much). why are you so wet right now" then escalating from there. where I remove her pants, as you say, to have better access to give her more pleasure

 

[Skills]

I lyft over to her apartment and am waiting outside at 7pm on friday night. I text her to come down and when she walks out the door, she is gorgeous. She's a nine guys, and I mean really. She is just dressed amazingly, this silk top with spaghetti straps. Gorgeous flowing hair and those eyes. We begin to take her dog for a walk and grab cupcakes. She mentions that we can go sit somewhere or go back to her apartment. This is one of my first mistakes that is recurring in this interaction and in my interactions with girls overall. I will take the less "sexual route" out of my own nerves and the fear that they will think I am trying to hard to sleep with them. I overthink, like I do many things in life. I level my safe into saying if you go sit outside she will be more likely to sleep with you later instead of jumping through the escalation window with vigor like I should be. Anyway I shot myself in the foot here, but she helped me out. She goes lets look at a bench unless it is wet. I look at the bench and think this bench is fine. She goes this bench is filthy. And so we both agree to go up to her apartment.

As chase says in his response, in my experience is higher odds believe it or not not going straight to her apartment, unless there have been enough sexual type texting were she pretty much agree to sex and even then i still like to use pausible deniability such as invite me over for a movie.... But back to you, going to a pre place is ideal cause it takes the elephant in the room out/pressure and give her time to put her guard down...

I know usually it is best to escalate quickly once you are in a location you can get together but this is obviously a first date and so we sit and we chat and drink wine. Conversation was good, I was flirtatious. She poured me more wine without me asking so I took this as a sign she wanted me to stay. I told her my logistics were not great for a long term thing (Which is the truth) as I am moving soon. But anyway we talk and flirt and eventually I say we should sit on the couch and she complies. Maybe I should have went for this earlier but I don' think this is a big mistake.

^ it seems she was down...

On the couch same thing, more talking and flirting. Find out she has some daddy issues, nothing crazy significant, just more of a not totally present father figure when she was growing up, but I take this as somewhat of a sign, and I think I got a lot of recurring signs that this girl was a freak. I mean her inviting me over on a first date was enough but you will see there is more. Eventually, we have that moment where we flirt about something and then she looks down submissively and I kiss her. We start making out and hooking up and everything is good.

^ this does not equal her being a freak, and so far so good...

We slowdown at somepoint for whatever reason. We start talking, and she asks me if she is good kisser. She says she never really has kissed anyone who likes to tongue kiss before. And I tell her that I liked how she did it but then needs to escalate a bit more into tongue kissing harder. She said a lot of things like this that made me question whether she was a freak and whether she was lying. She also said she had never kissed on a first date somewhere in this time frame. Given the circumstance, you can see why I found this hard to believe. We also got into a conversation around this time about how she use to hangout with these old richer dudes in the city when she was in college and went to parties at her mansion. But she "was never one of those girls who did anything". I played all of these off fine I think and just kind of dismissed them and smiled. So, I am not quite sure what to make of these if anyone has any clue. Another key one was when we were making out and I challenged her to a staring contest to build sexual tension and she said "They say whoever looks away his more submissive."

^ this is a huge missed opportunity, here you could have set so many sexual frames and address any upcoming problems and objections...

skills: " depending on how she kiss me i would have, says try this or that and demostrate physically and ask her for feedback, also here i would have said i do not care if i KISS OR HAVE SEX ON THE FIRST DAY OR IN THE 50 TH DAY, It does not make a different to me, must guys are clueless they judge women as either whore or sluts, cause they have something called madonna whore complex... They thing that if the girl has sex fast or kiss you fast is a whore, or if the girl takes her time is a correct game, but the fact is that women go through stages a girl can be very sexual with me and have sex with me on the first day and be a really good girlfriend, or have sex with me on the 50 th day and then the sex sucks and i never see her again, my point is for me to be with someone i need to like her personality and vive with her like we are doing, she also needs to be attractive enough that physical attraction has to be there for me, but sex for me is extremely important and is better to get it out of the way and see if you are sexually compatible than wait 6 months and realize sex sucks...Blah blah and continue with more sexual framing such as the 8 orgams routine.... i advice you to learn second generation sexuals... (i have it broken down like a baby in many places in which if you would have learned them this would be a lay, by the way this was created mainly by teevester)

So we were hooking up and I got some lmr when it came to taking off her shirt, but I got that off. I sucked on her tits and she loved it. The big LMR issue though came when I tried to get her pants off. She just kept saying "It's the first date, etc." I tried a few times and kept it getting that response. She would say "Next time". Evetnually though she had to take the dog outside. So we went to take the dog outside and while this was getting in the way of the seduction, she bending over very much to put the leash on the dog and to get ready. I had made comments about how nice her ass was and she had purposely touched her ass against me before in a spooning position. So when she was bending over like this, I went over and grabbed her from behind and rubbed her and put myself against her while she got the dog ready. We ended up taking the dog out and the conversation was normal. One thing of note was I complimented her on her ass and she said "It looks better with the jeans off but you can see that next time".

^ your timing was off and by this time she realized you were a bit green, but anyways, as you are sucking the tits you complement them, you squezzee your dick through the pants and get very exited, then you keep sucking and complementing her dress you pull your dick out and jerk off looking at her breast.... then you ask oh my god let me see that ass, damm you look so good oh shit, and let her take off the pants.... I really believe timing and calibration could have been off in your mechanics...

When we got back upstairs she told me that I should call an uber home, I used the bathroom and then we sat on the couch again and started hookingour hookup though I again got the LMR when it came to unbuttoning he pants. She would leave them unbuttoned for a bit and the eventually button them backup. up. During

^timing, calibrations and mechanics during doing this may have been off, which turn her off, a bit causing more lmr...i have another technique that is very useful here https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/g...sexual-act-while-physical-verbally-escalating


With experience you will know were sex is likely not to happen in which you avoid getting so much rejections that could trigger her, most of my lays even with all sexual framing i try to push them on a second encounter the odds get higher... but if you fuck it up in the first the second may not happen... This girl may have been down on a second encounter..... i get them soooooo amp up ready to go sexually on first encounter and do what she did to you.... Then i go home in the second one she is the one doing the seduction on me, if done right...

Lover vs Provider (V-Blog) - The Skills Method

This is a follow up to my last video about the Secret Society of Sex, now in this video I cover one of the most important concepts in seduction which … Continue Reading →

www.theskillsmethod.com

What works and what does not work in seduction now a days In clubs - Featuring Cosy (the cost of success) - The Skills Method

I went through a debauchery period that ended by CHOICE, last week (I got tired of meaningless sex and I met a girl that has tons of potential to be … Continue Reading →

www.theskillsmethod.com

 

[Chase]

@Velasco,

For you, does this yield better results than not pre-empting going to the sex location before you've charmed her?

Because for me this is eliminating the "one thing lead to another" / "spoiling the movie" effect that is crucial for most seductions to go down.

Good question.

In general for me, the better I feel we're vibing / the more attraction there is there, the less seeding I will do. Things are clicking, it's going well, we're having fun, and we're going to create that smooth kind of 'things just happening' movie-like experience, yes.

However, if it doesn't feel like there's a spark, and I think there's a chance we are going to talk at some point and things might die out, then I will try to get it into her head that the plan is we will do this, then we will do that. That way even if it cools off a little, she'll have it in her head that, "Oh right, I said we'd do that. Well, it's not too horrible with him, so we might as well finish the plan." Thus, you extend your runway longer to try and right the ship (or at least get her somewhere private enough she says to herself, "Well... he's making a move on me... eh, what the heck! Let's go for it").

When I was responding to @omgroflcopter, with him talking about being nervous, taking the less sexual route, this girl being out of his league, I put myself in his shoes and asked myself where I think I'll see my best odds if I'm him. In this case it's probably going to be laying the path out for both of us, so I'm not stressing out over how to ask her back to her place or when the timing should be and so we can clear any "she's not totally feeling it" hurdles.

Chase

 

[Científico]

Awesome info in here. I clearly still have much to learn.

 

[omgroflcopter]

Awesome info in here. I clearly still have much to learn.

Ya blew my mind lol. Glad I posted this one. I didn't realize how much I fucked up/could have done additionally.

 

[omgroflcopter]

@omgroflcopter,

Nice work here. And nice progress from January 2019!

You'll continue to improve. The ones that hurt give you clear lessons that tend to crystalize more in your head and give you tools and pathways to avoid those same issues with future gals.

This girl was out of your normal league from the sounds of it, and you were a little nervous, but you pushed through the seduction and got about 93% of the way there (so very good!). There are probably things you could've done better during the actual conversation/seduction to reduce or avoid the LMR, but the details in your report aren't super clear so I can't say what those might've been.

Some specific feedback:



I tend to prefer a bit of a progression in dates, so if you told her, "Let's have a drink on a bench, then head to yours after," it gives you a chance to break out of small talk on the bench, build up the vibe, then pull her to her place, and by the time you're getting to her place there is a feeling that things are growing increasingly intimate.

So it is not necessarily bad to start outside.

However, you do need to have a plan. If you'll just sit outside indefinitely and not know when to pull, or how to seed the pull, you might hang yourself out to dry.

Easiest way in a situation like this is just to tell her the plan: "Let's have one drink on the bench first and enjoy the outdoors. Then it'd be really nice to head to yours after."



This was the right call. You don't want to go straight into escalation on crossing the threshold into her place if she's a stranger and you have no face time with her at that point... unless you are getting some serious indications she's down for that.



Good opportunity to teach her some moves if you know a few.

"Well, I'll tell you a secret... one of the best tips to good tongue-kissing is to do it gently. A lot of people get too excited and try to ram their tongues down your throat. Here, I'll show you the wrong way to do it... and then the wrong. Why don't you try ramming your tongue down my throat. All right, now I'm going to do it to you, we'll see how you like that. Too much, right? Now let's try it gentle. I'll do it to you then I want you to do it to me. Just like this."



You're thinking way too much about this during a seduction and make-out.

That maybe can't be helped when you're still fairly new.

But as you increase in experience, you will want to be more focused in the moment, less worried about analyzing her words in the midst of the escalation. You can think about that later. I doubt you'll forget.

Focus on the moment, and it will be much easier to make the correct, intuitive moves.



Again, want to get your head space away from here at this point. Think about this later, not during the escalation. Just file it away and come back to it.



People can know things and say things without being that experienced.

She could also be fudging her past ("I didn't do anything... well, except a few times, but those don't count...").

There's no way to know until you know her better. And you're not going to get to know her that much better until your penis has been in her.

So focus on that first, and worry about what her true backstory is later.



First mistake: going for the shirt first.

Leave the shirt on. Most girls are used to that coming off first. The most typical, standard guy escalation goes:

1. Make-out
2. Feel her boobs
3. Take her shirt off
4. Suck those titties
5. Take her pants off
6. Condom on
7. Sex

Every girl who's been with more than 2 men knows this escalation sequence inside and out, and she knows exactly where she's going to stop it at. Usually it goes something like "Once my shirt comes off, we stop." The easy way to avoid hitting her stop point is to step around it. The easiest way to do that is to take her shirt off last (i.e., once your cock is in her).



Did you do anything to address this resistance?

She is talking, she is raising objections. Not sure if you're saying anything back and handling those objections. It sounds like you're just starting and stopping, starting and stopping.

You need to deal with her objections, usually verbally. If you can't address them, they are not going to just disappear, unless you are skillful enough with your physical escalation and/or she is already attracted enough that you can overcome her logical reasons with pure physical escalation.



She's being a cocktease here, and you are following.

Following her while she walks the dog. Following her with your compliments. Following with your grab-ass. Following right into her traps.

I know it is sexy when she is sticking that ass in your face. But her clothes are on and she is not bending over for you to stick your dick in. She is putting on a show to test how you'll react. Unless you have a very confident, assertive sexual demeanor, this kind of chase-y over-sexualization when she is leading you around will usually tend to backfire.

e.g., stand back and comment on it: "Oh, it's a nice view, from over here." When she tells you it looks better naked but you'll see that next time, you need to play that off with a comment like, "I've already seen it. I've got x-ray vision. It's a unique gift... helpful with guessing games."



That's the moment of truth right there.

Did you handle this objection?

I don't see any comments here about what you were saying or how you disarmed her trying to scoot you out of her place.

It looks like you were just trying to steam roll her with make-outs... get her hot and heavy enough she forgot all about her "Call your Uber" objection.

Were you doing anything like this?:

Her: It's time for you to call an Uber.​

​

You: I don't want to call an Uber. Your place is really comfortable. It's cozy here. [nuzzle into her]​

​

Her: Well, you can't stay.​

​

You: Can't I? It's so nice though. I feel really comfortable with you. I'm a good house guest, I promise. I always put the seat down, and I clean my own dishes.​

​

Her: [laughs] Noooo, you can't staaaay!​

​

You: I'll be good, I promise. We will only do things that we both agree we want to do.​

​

Her: [laughs] Okay. But only things we both want to do!​

​

You: Scout's honor!​

Were you rubbing her pussy from the outside?

Sticking your hand down her pants first and fingering them?

Pants should not be coming off until there is a reason for them to come off -- and the reason should be so that your fingers, which she is already loving on her pussy, have even better access to it to pleasure her even more.



No.

She does not sound like she was ready for that enough yet.

She was into you enough to make-out with you, but not aroused enough yet.

See my comments above. You needed to handle her objections and escalate better to get her to that point.

Then you could've attacked her passionately at some point -- once she was already warmed up.



Yeah, past a certain point she is going to start to think, "I'm just not feeling it with this guy," and, "This guy isn't able to do for me what I need."

After you're trying to escalate for a while and it doesn't go anywhere, girls will get tired of it and give up on it. How soon they tire of it greatly depends on how much they like you and how experienced they are. (you know... you can make-out like this for ages with inexperienced girls and they may never tire of it. The more experienced the girl is though, the more your escalation needs to be on point. So don't beat yourself up on this too much -- by the sound of what this girl was telling you, she's probably got a fair bit of experience on you. Don't worry -- you'll get there )



It was not just about "grabbing your balls and doing it."

She would've hard-stopped you had you just tried what you were doing, but more forcefully/aggressively. At least that's my read from this report.

You needed to handle her objections, you needed to escalate better (ditch the shirt; rub the pussy over the pants, then in the pants, before you try to take off the pants), you needed to not chase (and instead playfully invalidate her efforts to cocktease you).

This girl was a bit outside your level of game, in terms of how she was working it during the escalation and how she maintained control. So the odds were not much in your favor. But she DID like you, she WAS a freak (it sounds like)... she was just looking for a guy with a bit more escalation experience than you had.



If she's on a dating app, she is going to tend to do "these kinds of things" (i.e., take guys straight to her place, make out with them right away, let them suck on her boobs, shag them if they can escalate well and beat her resistance). This is the primary function of dating apps... it's 'bedroom yells', not 'wedding bells' she's seeking.

Also keep in mind, there are beautiful women with high sex drives. These women tend to have lower standards (not to say you're not on her level of attractiveness, but if you're a year, still very in-your-head during the escalation, and describing this girl as out of your league in you probably still have some work to do on appearance, confidence, game, etc.). They also tend to be a lot more open to sex in general.

So -- she was probably a fairly easy lay for anyone reasonably experienced.

You weren't quite there yet. But you got close! You'll get over that hump with future girls like her, don't worry.

There are more beautiful girls with high sex drives.

As you improve, you will also start to lay the beautiful girls with more normal sex drives as well (the ones who are going to tend not to be on dating apps). Which it sort of sounds like what you're looking for... I assume if you didn't care you wouldn't have been so heavily fixated on trying to figure out her sexual history from the few scraps of information she threw out



Well sort, of but also sort of not.

Yes, you should've persisted more and hung in there.

No, going ULTRA AGGRESSIVE CAVEMAN MODE does not sound like it would've redeemed this one for you.

You needed to be overcoming objections, not chasing, and escalating more smoothly and more seductively. You also needed to be focused on the girl, and not lost in analysis trying to piece together her backstory from several likely-misleading hints and clues (if you want to know her backstory, shag her FIRST, then in the after-glow, when her brain is awash with oxytocin, the trust hormone, then ask her... that is when you will get the most honest answers she'll give you. It's called 'pumping her for information', not 'asking her for information and then afterwards pumping her'!).



Yes, this is good.

Well -- you need to be focused on the girl. Enjoying her, in the moment. Not rushing, not analyzing, not chasing or feeling needy.

You are still feeling emotions... you will always feel something. But it should just be a focus on being in the moment, enjoying the interaction with her, looking for ways to bring her more pleasure.

If you are continually bringing her more and more pleasure while you're escalating with her, it is inevitable that at some point you'll end up inside her.



The ones that sting are good.

You remember them, and you remember the lessons you learn from them, better.

The lack of chemistry was not a killer. She was making out with you, she was having you suck on her breasts, and she would've gone to bed with you had you disarmed her objections and escalated in a smoother, more enjoyable way for her.

You did well here with a girl you found intimidating and who was outside your usual realm of experience.

You didn't get the lay this time, but you get a few more shots like this, and you'll be closing girls like her soon.

Chase

This was more than helpful. Thank you for the breakdown.

Just an idea, breakdowns of FRs like this could be monetized. You literally just shaved god knows how many FUs from my future self. I would consider paying for a breakdown like this in the future to shorten the learning curve.

Thanks again!

Omgroflcopter

 

[omgroflcopter]

For you, does this yield better results than not pre-empting going to the sex location before you've charmed her?

Because for me this is eliminating the "one thing lead to another" / "spoiling the movie" effect that is crucial for most seductions to go down.

A great move I've used recently with a chick that was giving me resistance to me taking her pants off, was positioning her in front of me like this

in the bedroom, with my back against the bed frame. and then asking her how she masturbates. to porn or uses her imagination. I then took her hand and then guided it, under her pants, and started playing with her clit using her hand. Then moved it to the side (her hand), and then saying, "I know how you did it" and then started playing with her with my own hands. Getting her wet, then asking her, "fuck your so wet (even if she isn't that much). why are you so wet right now" then escalating from there. where I remove her pants, as you say, to have better access to give her more pleasure

This is fantastic, your's and Chase's comments are going to save me from tons of missed opportunities. I am definitely going to try this one out. Thanks!

 

[omgroflcopter]

As chase says in his response, in my experience is higher odds believe it or not not going straight to her apartment, unless there have been enough sexual type texting were she pretty much agree to sex and even then i still like to use pausible deniability such as invite me over for a movie.... But back to you, going to a pre place is ideal cause it takes the elephant in the room out/pressure and give her time to put her guard down...



^ it seems she was down...






^ this does not equal her being a freak, and so far so good...



^ this is a huge missed opportunity, here you could have set so many sexual frames and address any upcoming problems and objections...

skills: " depending on how she kiss me i would have, says try this or that and demostrate physically and ask her for feedback, also here i would have said i do not care if i KISS OR HAVE SEX ON THE FIRST DAY OR IN THE 50 TH DAY, It does not make a different to me, must guys are clueless they judge women as either whore or sluts, cause they have something called madonna whore complex... They thing that if the girl has sex fast or kiss you fast is a whore, or if the girl takes her time is a correct game, but the fact is that women go through stages a girl can be very sexual with me and have sex with me on the first day and be a really good girlfriend, or have sex with me on the 50 th day and then the sex sucks and i never see her again, my point is for me to be with someone i need to like her personality and vive with her like we are doing, she also needs to be attractive enough that physical attraction has to be there for me, but sex for me is extremely important and is better to get it out of the way and see if you are sexually compatible than wait 6 months and realize sex sucks...Blah blah and continue with more sexual framing such as the 8 orgams routine.... i advice you to learn second generation sexuals... (i have it broken down like a baby in many places in which if you would have learned them this would be a lay, by the way this was created mainly by teevester)



^ your timing was off and by this time she realized you were a bit green, but anyways, as you are sucking the tits you complement them, you squezzee your dick through the pants and get very exited, then you keep sucking and complementing her dress you pull your dick out and jerk off looking at her breast.... then you ask oh my god let me see that ass, damm you look so good oh shit, and let her take off the pants.... I really believe timing and calibration could have been off in your mechanics...



^timing, calibrations and mechanics during doing this may have been off, which turn her off, a bit causing more lmr...i have another technique that is very useful here https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/g...sexual-act-while-physical-verbally-escalating


With experience you will know were sex is likely not to happen in which you avoid getting so much rejections that could trigger her, most of my lays even with all sexual framing i try to push them on a second encounter the odds get higher... but if you fuck it up in the first the second may not happen... This girl may have been down on a second encounter..... i get them soooooo amp up ready to go sexually on first encounter and do what she did to you.... Then i go home in the second one she is the one doing the seduction on me, if done right...

Lover vs Provider (V-Blog) - The Skills Method

This is a follow up to my last video about the Secret Society of Sex, now in this video I cover one of the most important concepts in seduction which … Continue Reading →

www.theskillsmethod.com

What works and what does not work in seduction now a days In clubs - Featuring Cosy (the cost of success) - The Skills Method

I went through a debauchery period that ended by CHOICE, last week (I got tired of meaningless sex and I met a girl that has tons of potential to be … Continue Reading →

www.theskillsmethod.com

Brilliant. Will check out the articles you linked too. Thanks!

 

[Chase]

I'm happy it helps, man!

Only a few different tweaks in there. But you make the right couple of tweaks, and it makes a very large difference.

Just an idea, breakdowns of FRs like this could be monetized. You literally just shaved god knows how many FUs from my future self. I would consider paying for a breakdown like this in the future to shorten the learning curve.

Yeah, it's just the difficulty of putting together a consistent program for it, you know.

The "field report breakdown" skill takes years to get really sharp at. I've been doing it since 2006 (would break down other beginners' FRs when I was a beginner... forced me to pay a lot of attention, improve analysis, and learn faster via "If you want to do, teach"). I don't know any other currently active guys who do it.

I have so little time for it myself that anyone who wanted to pay for it from me would have to pay CEO prices. Can't sell that.

I guess I could pay guys to train themselves up as breakdown guys on the Boards. Then have them start selling their breakdowns. That could be interesting. Could inject a lot of life into the Boards. Just imagine if you had a forum where guys could post their field reports, get awesome, on-point feedback, then pay for even more on-point analysis. That place would be hopping.

That's a really interesting thought. Could be both excellent for the forum and possibly also an interesting way to monetize.

I'll turn it over a bit...!

Chase