Response to framing/teasing/negging by medium and age group

NarrowJ

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Here's something I have noticed. It could just be me, and the way I'm delivering it. But I have seen a rather profound inverse relationship between the responses I get with regard to the medium used when I'm teasing a girl, and what age group she falls into.

Framing/Teasing/Negging w/ younger girls (ages 20-25):

via text message: Guarded, act unimpressed and sometimes even go into bitch-mode
in person: Very receptive to it, laughing, really gets them going

Framing/Teasing/Negging w/ older girls (ages 25-30+):

via text message: Receptive, they usually laugh and go along with it
in person: Guarded, mostly act unimpressed but usually don't overreact



What do you guys think about this? Any ideas as to the psychology going on here?


NJ
 

Richard

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My idea would be the age differences, and with that coming the experience.

Ages 20-25
These women are typically receptive in person because they pick up on your physical emotion with your teasing. They can physically hear your tone of voice and understand that it's a joke.

However, these women and most inexperienced people cannot read teasing or frames through text messages unless you put in some effort to craft your texts decisively.

Ages 25-30+
These women are at points in their life where they usually marry, and have had the experience with men. In person they have just about heard whatever it is you are saying so it's typical that they act unimpressed unless you truly stand out. They also know through trial and error that showing the emotion and going along with it means they are chasing you, they know by giving in you have a free ride to push forward.

Whereas with texting it's rather safe for them to go along with it because they have time to respond to each text, in person it takes out the physicality, the body language that conveys their interest. So texting with emotion is relatively safe for them ;)

Hope this helped J,

-Rich
 

NarrowJ

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Z,

All that makes a ton of sense.

The younger girls don't have time to think about it when you're doing it person, and thus might not even pick up on it. But reading the text, it has time to sink in and they think: "Hey, this guy thinks he's some kind of player!" and they start testing you.

The older girls, it's not their first rodeo, so they pick up on it immediately either way its presented to them. But, if they like you, they'll play along.


NJ
 

PinotNoir

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Yes, I've seen this too.

It's almost like younger girls can't visualize it as much or something. I may say something that I think is pretty funny via text, and a younger girl will just answer with no laughter. In person, she'll almost die in laughter and touching my arm, etc.

Then with older women, it's the complete opposite. In person, it's like they want to create more of a sexual vibe with less laughter and games.
 

Marty

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NJ/Zphix:

Reading the above I realize that I am totally dumbfounded by your reasoning. Theoretically this could mean two things:


  • 1. There is an actual flaw in your argument (unlikely, given my lack of experience versus both you guys); or

    2. There is some fundamental concept that I have so far failed to grasp.

I'm going to go with the latter; in spite of going out to approach girls 3 to 4 days a week for the past few months, I think I'm missing something very basic.

This is the passage that really stumped me:
Zphix said:
They also know through trial and error that showing the emotion and going along with it means they are chasing you, they know by giving in you have a free ride to push forward.

Whereas with texting it's rather safe for them to go along with it because they have time to respond to each text, in person it takes out the physicality, the body language that conveys their interest. So texting with emotion is relatively safe for them ;)
What completely throws me off here is the idea of "safe". What is "safe" about not conveying their interest? Put another way, why is "a free ride to push forward" a bad thing from the girl's perspective, if she is into you? Surely she would want you to push forward? Or are you just talking about girls who are definitely not into you?

How is it "safe" to hide their body language from a guy they are actually interested in? Surely what it actually does is to put the whole interaction at risk of failing? Or again, are you only speaking of girls who are uninterested?

I have an intuition that if I can get this basic (seemingly illogical) point straight in my head it is going to do a great deal helping me to understand women. At the moment, what you have written actually baffles me!

Thanks so much
-Marty
 

NarrowJ

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Hey Marty,

I'm not Zphix :) but I think what he was trying to say is that older women are usually more experienced and even if she likes you she may play hard to get or test you. Younger girls aren't quite as quick on their feet yet, and they also tend overreact quite a bit more, hence the bitchiness you might encounter from them sometimes (just a maturity thing). So with the texting being "a safe distance", younger girls probably feel "safer" to be a bitch via text, while older girls feel "safer" to just play along sometimes via text (instead of feeling like they need to shit test you).

That's how I took it, but I'm interested in seeing his response too!
NJ
 

Richard

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Ask and you shall receive. Haha!

Marty,

By safe I mean, they're able to level the playing field as far as control goes. Remember, most guys in the world aren't like us. If a woman shows interest in the "regular" man, hes likely to feel like he's the shit and push forward very cockily, and then turn her off.

With younger women, by safe with texting, they maintain control because they have the time to plan put their next text, they can choose their words, instead of being swept up in the moment.

Women have had to adapt to the ways of the "average" man, and have to level the playing field because they can't be easy for just any guy. Basically, women don't show enough interest in a guy to keep the "average" guy at bay, but shows enough interest for an experienced man to pick up on it. Make sense?

To rebuttal, what is safe about showing interest in every guy she comes across? The regular guy will push forward but ruin the vibe, it takes a socially calibrated man to push the right way.
 

ZacAdam

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Hello,

NarrowJ said:
Here's something I have noticed. It could just be me, and the way I'm delivering it. But I have seen a rather profound inverse relationship between the responses I get with regard to the medium used when I'm teasing a girl, and what age group she falls into.

Framing/Teasing/Negging w/ younger girls (ages 20-25):

via text message: Guarded, act unimpressed and sometimes even go into bitch-mode
in person: Very receptive to it, laughing, really gets them going

Framing/Teasing/Negging w/ older girls (ages 25-30+):

via text message: Receptive, they usually laugh and go along with it
in person: Guarded, mostly act unimpressed but usually don't overreact

What do you guys think about this? Any ideas as to the psychology going on here?

There's a lot of subjective reasoning i can think of, Here this is.

1) Social Reputation

This varies, but Younger women want men they know who are somewhat popular or status to message them. This is more evident in high school, (the hot guy who is texting her or the team captain of the football team, one of the key players in a successful team)

2) Fully Developed/Under Development Game

Young girls who haven't develop game yet, thus they are much more neutral to you, because she don't know how to keep you around, she really doesn't. I believe this is why Chase ask you to just move forward with younger girls, and i have to say it has work so well in the message department.

For girls who are older, they know that to keep you around, they will be flirty abit in their text messages. Older women tend to be more wittier than the average young girl who is 16 to 20. They are more game develop.

3) Screening for Provider/Lover role (Friends, Lover, Boyfriend Dilemma)

Younger women look for boyfriend. They not looking for marriage. Marriage to them is Boyfriend and Girlfriend. Occasionally does a girl meet a lover, all too often she meets are guys who will constantly wear her down until he becomes her boyfriend.

Younger women are rebellious prone, and also she's not looking for marriage, Getting excited isn't a big deal.

There are also other reasons where she likes you as a friend, lover and also boyfriend altogether. She's younger, and marriage is out of the question, so she's confused, really.

4) Personality, (For the quieter girls)

Family backgrounds. Religious backgrounds. Some girls tend to be more reserve, She can be cold on text, and cold even in person. Her kind of stimulation for 15 years might be books. So it does hinder that sexuality.

Zac
 

Marty

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NarrowJ said:
Younger girls aren't quite as quick on their feet yet, and they also tend overreact quite a bit more, hence the bitchiness you might encounter from them sometimes (just a maturity thing). So with the texting being "a safe distance", younger girls probably feel "safer" to be a bitch via text, while older girls feel "safer" to just play along sometimes via text (instead of feeling like they need to shit test you).
NJ: great point, and helps to get it clear in my mind... as I wrote the other day to Zphix, it really helps for me to get an intuitive "feel" for a principle and then understand it rationally; after that I'm ready to put it into practice. I never actually realized that the "bitchiness" of younger (<24) girls was due to inexperience; I always thought it was their hormones hadn't quite finished doing the grown-woman bit :)

Zphix said:
Women have had to adapt to the ways of the "average" man, and have to level the playing field because they can't be easy for just any guy. Basically, women don't show enough interest in a guy to keep the "average" guy at bay, but shows enough interest for an experienced man to pick up on it. Make sense?
This is a cool explanation. Thanks, Zphix!

-Marty
 

Chase

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NJ-

Responded to your comment linking this thread on the emotional association article here:

NarrowJ said:
Very informative & useful, tons of info there that goes quite a bit deeper than many of your previous posts on this and similar subjects (which you linked under the "Combatting Dissociation" heading.

Anyway, had posted a topic on teasing/framing/negging and the responses you get to those types of things depending on the medium and age group that the girl falls into on the boards here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3283

After reading this article, I feel like since I'm in my early 30's that younger girls just don't become emotionally associated with me as easily as women closer to my age, and that is more likely what I'm experiencing (what I describe in the board topic I posted), and not really so much having to do with whether I'm texting them something or talking to them in person. We just don't relate to one another quite as easily. I'm sure these things are all better-delivered in person anyway, though. I have no problem with younger girls *in person*, however texting them can be a chore because they don't always latch onto humor / teasing and get offended by it at times, even.

What is your take on that?

NJ

For the sake of keeping thoughts on this in one place, here's the text of my reply there, reposted here:

Yeah, that's an interesting topic. I for one think it's more about how you come across as anything else... for me, in my 30s, I find I have a much easier time connecting with women in their late teens and early 20s now than I did when I was their age. When I was their age, they would talk to me assuming I knew all these pop culture things that they did, but since I was every bit as unplugged then as I am now, I'd kind of be sitting there going, "Uhhhhh..." Nowadays, they explain their situations to me without the pop culture references, and I make a few sage-sounding comments, and they think, "Wow, he's totally been where I am right now and gets me SO well!" Conversely, older women will still talk to me about things and, when I give them a blank stare, will say, "You don't watch that? Really?" You might say that perhaps because we're the same age, they have expectations of me that I am similar to them, while younger women do not have these same expectations. That said, if you're more plugged into pop culture than I am, all those disconnects I have with older women may actually be things YOU end up CONNECTING with them over.

I'd say overall my experiences match yours, on the threat you linked to though, yeah: older women are stiff and guarded in person, but you can joke around to your heart's content over correspondence and they'll laugh all day with you. Younger girls will be warm and appreciative and enjoy my humor in person, but I NEVER crack jokes over text or phone because they just take these way too seriously.

I don't know if this is true for everyone, or if this is just a response to our individual styles... my read, at least in my case (and it may be true for you, too), is that younger girls look at me and say, "Well, there's a sexy somewhat older guy, and we're never going to have a relationship, but he's totally chill and appealing... I can just relax around him and be myself and we'll go get it on and it'll be no pressure, good, and fun." Meanwhile, older gals look at me and say, "OH my God, here's a really appealing guy who checks off ALL my boxes for a long-term mate, except for job and his transient nature... but he's got a good background, and an elegant presence, and he SEEMS like perfect husband material - maybe I can convince him to stick around, or go with him wherever he's going. OMG, I hope I can make this work, I hope I can - can I? <em>CAN I?</em>"

So, in my case, I'd say it's a big pressure difference in person (younger girls: no pressure; older girls: tons of pressure), and the humor via correspondence defuses this pressure with older women ("Ah, there, you see... he DOES like me! He's joking AROUND with me! This is GREAT news!"), whereas it comes across out of character and incongruent when the girl thinks there's a large status/power difference between you and her (why would the king send joking messages to the street vendor? ... unless he's having a laugh at his expense...).

My read: if you're seeing similar things to what I am, your presence is solid enough that women younger than you consider you a sexy, appealing authority figure, but also one whom, while they might be able to connect with him well, they're not going to rope in to something long-term because he's not going to go for that with them (he's too high status relative to inexperienced them; you're just on the edges of their attainability, close to the "unattainable" side); whereas older women view you as "within reach" for a relationship even if you do an otherwise good job disqualifying yourself as a boyfriend candidate, and heap pressure on themselves to "get" you.

Chase
 

Flames

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Sounds like a lack of emoticons to me, have to ask though why your negging by text? Or at all.

Sexual inuendo works well, but the whole point negs work is because of the body language elements.
 

NarrowJ

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Chase:

Thanks for the response. That makes sense. I am going to drop the teasing and jokes and whatnot via text with the younger girls.


Flames:

I always use emoticons. A neg is necessary sometimes if a girl starts to get "too big for her britches" (for example, if I give her a compliment and she doesn't reward me for it and starts acting like she's the shit). Like Chase says, younger girls just seem to take stuff like that way too seriously. I feel like its a maturity issue, in that (A) they're not socially aware enough to catch it in person and (B) they tend to overreact to stuff like that when they do notice it.
 

Flames

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NarrowJ said:
Chase:

Thanks for the response. That makes sense. I am going to drop the teasing and jokes and whatnot via text with the younger girls.


Flames:

I always use emoticons. A neg is necessary sometimes if a girl starts to get "too big for her britches" (for example, if I give her a compliment and she doesn't reward me for it and starts acting like she's the shit). Like Chase says, younger girls just seem to take stuff like that way too seriously. I feel like its a maturity issue, in that (A) they're not socially aware enough to catch it in person and (B) they tend to overreact to stuff like that when they do notice it.

Then the problem is still you. Complimenting is rewarding someone else for something you like. If you start expecting things in return, and then neg when you don't get them. Then that I'm afraid is your immaturity not theirs. :)

Genuine compliments are a great thing, expectations are not.

All that aside I never use compliments (other than apprectiation) or negs over text, so try not doing either.
 

Richard

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Flames,

I think what J meant was, he'll compliment her and she'll feel like she's got him already, her head swells and she feels totally awesome about herself! Instead of saying thank you, or reciprocating that in person. J was talking about negging in person as well.

Aside from that though, I feel that compliments are the best, but I'm a direct day gamer!
 

Flames

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Zphix said:
Flames,

I think what J meant was, he'll compliment her and she'll feel like she's got him already, her head swells and she feels totally awesome about herself! Instead of saying thank you, or reciprocating that in person. J was talking about negging in person as well.

Aside from that though, I feel that compliments are the best, but I'm a direct day gamer!

From what he said in the first few lines of his first post the problem was with texts, not in person. I personally don't do either by text.

Either way if a girl thinks she's got him already then she'd do something about it OR he didn't need the compliment in the first place. ie overuse of compliments.

2 quotes spring to mind here.

1) The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
2) Its not them it's you

If something happens regularly enough to post about it here it's ALWAYS the poster's fault.

Young or old women are exactly the same, what's different is the way you treat them.
 

NarrowJ

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Flames,

You're making a lot of assumptions (that I'm overusing compliments, just as an example).

Secondly, you misunderstood what I said slightly enough that what you're refuting isn't the actual statement that I made. I didn't say I would neg JUST because I didn't get something I wanted, I said I'd do it if she did it in a way that she is acting bratty and above me. I have seen you post and you seem fairly knowledgeable, so I'm sure you don't let girls act this way either.

Chase explained it pretty thoroughly. The guru has spoken lol ;)

PS- If you want to see some really smooth negs via text, to get an idea of how that's done, check out Landlord's LR here.


Hope that clears a few things up!
NJ
 

Flames

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NarrowJ said:
Flames,

You're making a lot of assumptions (that I'm overusing compliments, just as an example).

Secondly, you misunderstood what I said slightly enough that what you're refuting isn't the actual statement that I made. I didn't say I would neg JUST because I didn't get something I wanted, I said I'd do it if she did it in a way that she is acting bratty and above me. I have seen you post and you seem fairly knowledgeable, so I'm sure you don't let girls act this way either.

Chase explained it pretty thoroughly. The guru has spoken lol ;)

PS- If you want to see some really smooth negs via text, to get an idea of how that's done, check out Landlord's LR here.


Hope that clears a few things up!
NJ

1) I'm just going of off what you said. You said that you were noticing differences between texts that you sent when you negged, and you said that you negged after giving compliments, when they started acting bratty.

So this is your process txt compliment->txt bratty->txt neg. so your in actual fact over complimenting wether you like it or not.

2) Chase didn't disagree with my conclusion, just came up with a different process of reasoning.

3) Negs are old hat :) cut out the over compliment you won't ever need to use them.

This applies to text however, in person body language and all that stuff comes into play. Trust me I know how to text I grew up when texting was just getting going so I'm guessing I've got way more experience of it than even Chase himself. :)

Furthermore if you don't believe what I'm telling you, you both just complimented me and then 'negged' me in your last
post. So either you did that deliberately in attempt at manipulation, or you didn't realise you did it as per what I'm telling you your doing wrong.

So your choice is to either blindly follow one guys advice, or try different things that have been suggested. Entirely upto you.

And your right I dont put up with bratty, because I don't encounter it I get all other kinds of crazy weird shit (and tes thats entirelly my own fault) but bratty isn't involved. :)
 

NarrowJ

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No, you're right. Chase didn't disagree with anything you said. I think he posted before you did.

So this is your process txt compliment->txt bratty->txt neg. so your in actual fact over complimenting wether you like it or not.

Haha no, that's not a "process" but yeah I do give girls compliments and sometimes it makes them get ahead of themself a little. Too many or too little compliments is completely arbitrary and I don't how we come to the conclusion that there's too many compliments without reading the texts. How many are too many? One? Because that's the amount of compliments I gave the girl in the example. Anyway, the compliment thing was just one example I came up with.

So your choice is to either blindly follow one guys advice, or try different things that have been suggested. Entirely upto you.

You're right. I shouldn't just blindly follow your (one guy's) advice ;) And while I do put a ton of stock into what Chase says because he's a freaking genius, and that's to be extremely careful with the teasing and such with younger girls, I like to see all angles of things so your comments are much appreciated. I still think negs are effective, regardless of whether you feel its "old hat", it works. Even if a girl doesn't react to it in a nice way, it still works because she knows I'm not putting up with her shit lol :)

So yeah, I totally see where you're coming from- and I definitely think certain things that work well for one person might not work for someone else, because we're all different people from a myriad of countries, cultures and walks of life. But the thing it seems we can all agree on here is that you should cut a lot of the teasing and stuff from text interactions with younger girls because of how they tend to take things like that, and the way they tend to overreact to (any) stimuli.


NJ
 

Flames

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I actually read Chase's post after your reply to mine :) I haven't actually fully read any of the other posts I never do.

One thing I do know is that Chase and I rarely disagree. I've come about a lot of Chases stuff on my own, although that said I could never really formalise it and certainly not post 1000 words about it. That is his genius.

I haven't really explained why and I probably owe you that. I am/was very very good at text game, I could give you specific examples but it doesn't matter and the reason is as follows. It really when it comes to it, doesn't mean shit. Keep texting to a minimum, dont involve emotional subjects, just stick to basic arrangements and yes 'friendly' hellos. Keep the push/pull to the real world. Call if you have to but really stay away from txt as much as possible. Yeah you can do a whole load of amazing things by simply texting an emoticon of an Aubergine, but so far as actual sex chances it doesn't make any difference.

Complimenting by text comes across as weak, Negging as harsh and there's a whole load of other things your attaching to a text. The reason it's not the same with older women is purely and simply they want something different (usually), or your already higher value just because there getting older. It's not because they don't get upset by negging and bratty from compliments. Trust me I've women friends who misinterpret texts (from their other halves) all the time, so don't give them any ammo. :)
 

lux7

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Hmmm I personally things these boxes are a bit dangerous.

Yeah, there certainly are generalizable differences and wider trends as, say, for different countries/religions/cultures, but.. Personality always trumps the wider trends and that doesn't belong to any age bracket, country or religion.
 
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