FR Sat 1st Feb

[greenleaf]

thought i'd create a new thread for the short FR I wrote about in a different thread. I might even make a journal at some point, although in my experience, journals tend to get very little in the way of replies so maybe not

Managed to get back on the horse in terms of making approaches and beating AA last night after struggling last week to really open any hot girls.

Made a few opens.

One open was on a 2-set who just literally didn't speak back and kept looking at each other like I was talking Chinese lol. I was like 'hi', and made a comment on their matching outfits. Then asked them what their story was (ToddV transitions with that quite often). She didn't really reply but just looked at her friend sarcastically lol. I tried to plow a little bit and made a cold read on them being sisters and a few other observations to try to get them to hook, but no joy. Some girls seem to make up their mind before you even say 'hi' and simply don't want to talk to randoms

Next set was on very very hot blonde girl. Probably the only half decent set of the night but i'm annoyed at myself in hindsight for not pushing the set more. I opened with an observation on her clothes and she hooked fast.

Slightly blury, but I think I was about to open her and she might have like 'poked' me on purpose, and that's when I opened her.

We spoke and bantered for a bit. she was so hot and kind of 'receptive', tbh. But it felt more in a friendly way? I threw in some DHV story based on a recent trip abroad and also showed a little intent by comparing her too a 'hot' girl I met whilst travelling so that she knew I was attracted and to make it a bit 'man to woman'

I done some cold reads and stuff too.

Soon after she brought up the fact that she'd just been dumped by her BF and she was clearly still super into him and kept talking about how he was 6ft 6 and super handsome and was showing me pics and telling me she feels like crying thinking about him as he's so amazing etc, which started to make me think I was wasting my time here and most likely not her type (about a foot shorter than him for one!! haha. Plus he was young and good looking)

We carried on chatting for a little while but at this point, i'd already showed some 'intent' and wasn't feeling it being resiprocated, really. She was polite and nice and talkative but I didn't feel that she was 'into me' in THAT way, tbh. I basically decided to eject on a somewhat high point and I was also starting to stuggle to come up with things to talk about

One nagging part of me though is wondering whether she was a possibility and I should have tried for longer as often girls who have just broken up are looking to get laid, although she was obviously still way into him. But I think I stupidly ended the set when I did (with the idea to re-open her later (as RSD spoke about) but later on she appeared to be crying/sleeping on a table with a hot friend of hers lol.

(I've since found her on facebook and was mildly tempted to add her as a friend, but might look a bit creepy? We only chatted for a few mins and I don't think she'd even know who I was so probably gonna leave it)

Another set was on a 4-set in the beer garden. Think I opened her with an observation about her clothes and she spoke back, but I was super stifled in that set from memory. Literally couldn't think of things to say shortly after the open! Mind went blank. Maybe because it was a 4-set, plus I had a few friends just basically watching me! Felt pressurised - Put me very in my head and it fizzled out fast. I just couldn't think of anything to say other than name/age/plan for the night convo. Feels weird to go into 'interesting' questions taht people advice when you've not even hooked her yet (like asking her for her craziest ever experience or whatever)

Another set on another really hot blonde girl. She was barely 18 but seemed super confident for her age and didn't dismiss me at the open and was kind of polite, but it felt very one sided. She laughed a few times and answered my questions and reacted to my cold reads etc, but it kept stalling as she wasn't really properly engaged/asking me anything. One of those sets i'd like to have had someone in my ear through an earpiece feeding me lines to see if I could have ever taken that set anywhere at all!

There were a few other sets, too.

Good to get back on the horse, but fairly frustrating night.

edit: One other awkward set from memory lol. Some stranger my friend had just met wanted to chat to 2 hot girls sitting down. My friend volunteered me to wing this random dude lol. We both went over, he basically 'presented' me to the girls to charm them in a kind of awkward way lol. I think maybe my friend had lied to him about me being good with girls or something!! haha. I asked how their night was going and introduced myself and stuff, but they were classic Brit girls and seemed to find the idea of being approached very strange. They just didn't react and looked sarcastically at each other. This then made the stranger dude say something to me to try to put me down lol. But it's not as though he was doing any better! Then we both just ejected with our tails between our legs

 

[Derek da man]

Hi. I was wondering if you read girls before you approach? If their body language isn't receptive before your approach you are simply playing a numbers game and it's always going to be hard work and you will face a lot of rejection. It can also look "desperate" or "needy" to the girls with experience and then they just brush you off.

My rule is that if she doesn't invite me to speak to her I generally don't. Her invitation may be eye contact, a slight smile, a toss of the hair, position of her body/feet etc. When I approach I already know she wants me to speak to her so she is receptive. That doesn't always mean it goes the way I want but I'm working on that bit, like most of us.

 

[greenleaf]

@Derek da man I tend to just approach. Even the girls with the resting bitch face who are sitting in the corner suggesting that they don't want to be bothered lol

I guess the idea of only approaching after an IOI is fairly modern in terms of PUA. Old school literature seems to follow the idea that you always assume attraction and open her if she's hot. Because even if she isn't interested in you (hence she didn't give you an IOI) you make her interested with game!

Now, being real, my own experience, plus having analysed many infields etc tell me that idea is very flawed (mainly just marketing) although I still use that idea in terms of opening, if for no other reason that if I did only approach after an IOI, i'd only approach 1 or 2 girls per year!

 

[greenleaf]

just wanna add on with a few thoughts as I've been thinking about them interactions a little more today.

Trying to remember my thought process and feelings in the moment in order to hopefully improve upon elements that were within my control

I felt quite anxious that night, although surprisingly made more approaches than I have recently. Was this because of nofap (I was on day 8 that night). Or was that just coincidence? Don't know. More anxiety but less inhibition??! Seems odd. Whatever. I've sinced fapped anyway!

sets that are in my mind:

The girl who I opened in front of all of my friends who were a bit like an audience! (I also had some other girls as an audience who one of my friends was speaking too, further adding to the pressure. So like 9 pairs of eyes on me opening!) That made me very 'in my head' and stifled. After I commented on her jacket or something (clothes openers still seem to be my go-too 'observational/situational' opener 95% of the time) she actually responded decently, but after that I was super in my head and pretty much ejected for no reason. I think partly because I was trying for more of a 'natural game' angle this week as an experiment (as i'd previously mentioned) but then, my brain only ever comes up with the same lines (''what are you guys up too tonight?'') which I know from experience doesn't seem to do a great job of getting me to the 'hook' point as they just like shrug their shoulders and look bored, and so then I don't even ask that, and so the set ends lol. I wish i'd just at least said that, though. Or anything, for that matter. I find myself ejecting almost instantly if I don't get a VERY good reaction too an opener which is stupid.

With the girl who had just broken up. This is the only set that hurts in that a tiny part of me thinks that I actually had a shot here! And she was hot and young! (her and her friend were clearly being noticed around the bar. 2 hot little blonde things wearing short 'tartan' matching short skirts). She almost opened me just as I was about to open her. I then opened with the clothes observation, and she then told her friend my opener and they laughed and then we started talking. However, thinking back, I can remember being VERY in my head again. Like I asked her what she did and I think she said she was a 'procurement/buyer' for a company or something, and I didn't have anything cool to reply with, and didn't want to bore her by asking her what got her into that job etc (I know from experience that despite reading on PUA blogs that this is a good question, young girls tend to hate talking about stuff like that). I feel I done well with cramming in the short DHV story about a recent trip away which also gave me a chance to verbalise some intent which I did. But I guess it was really the ex boyfriend thing that threw me off (fact she kept talking about how she still loved him and how hot and tall he was lol). In hindsight I can think of some things I could have said that would either be self amusing or could take the interaction in a flirty way (such as asking her what sort of guys she;s after now she's back on the market and playing around with her answers) but in the moment, I had nothing! That's part of the issue - Plus I maybe also was already 'running out of things to say' here anyway. I just don't feel I have enough 'ammo' of 'fun' things to talk about! I have lots of 'techniques' down, and can pass lots of shit tests without thinking, can break rapport and neg and disqualify if she's very talkative, and can sexualise etc once it's clear I've got a shot, but lots of that stuff only comes into play a bit later on, and I don't get a chance to do lots of it because, as I say, there's just not enough ammo there for me to get a long enough interaction going to reach that point (this was only like 10.30 in a bar)

With the set where it was me and a stranger. That's pissed me off lol. He kind of mugged me off a bit. I think maybe my friend had told him i'm a bit of a ladies man lol (he actually thinks I am which is funny. I guess because I've gotten a few same night lays whereas pretty much nobody else I know seems to ever get any. Only lays from social circle etc)
SO the stranger called me over, then more or less just looked at me as if to say 'Ok then, do your magic!! Lets hear your amazing lines'. Since I was trying more 'natural game' that night, I just opened with something like ''You guys looked bored. I thought i'd come and say hi'' or something, but she more or less insta rejected me, and then the guy was like ''you don't know what you're doing!'' lol, in front of them which I laughed off. He then tried to recover the set, but he was no better than me. He was just like '''Yeah. Me and him don't know each other......So........what's up??''. The other girl basically ignored him aswell, and then we looked at each other in defeat and ejected! haha

One other set I forgot to mention was bumping into a girl who I know likes me and who I opened a few months back when I was very in state. Just grabbed her and pulled her towards me on the dancefloor as an opener and spat some gold, and we have a mutual friend who tells me she likes me. However, for some reason, as I say, I was stifled that night. Maybe more than usual. And I felt like i'd already spoke to her before and couldn't think of 'new' things to talk to her about and yeah, it just wasn't a great interaction.

I guess out of all of them interactions, the girl with the ex boyfriend is the most annoying one! With the other blonde girl at the bar (I mentioned in the OP) who kind of just politely spoke back but gave me the vibe that she was an 18 year old celebrity and I was her limo driver or something, I don't think there's anything I could have done. For example, having all the best PUA's in my ear would likely have no resulted in a different outcome. So i'm not that bothered about her. HOWEVER, with the 'ex boyfriend girl', I just wonder if she WAS possible! And that upsets me lol. Just the ability to be able to keep coming up with semi interesting questions and lines etc is what I need. Probably what most people who aren't great at this stuff need. But i'm forever searching for the solution. I know the idea that 'whatever I say is great because it comes from me' etc and 'what you say doesn't matter' etc etc, but in my experience, it's when I AM able to come out with some interesting questions and lines (some of them being canned) is when I tend to get the better reactions.

 

[Velasco]

In hindsight I can think of some things I could have said that would either be self amusing or could take the interaction in a flirty way (such as asking her what sort of guys she;s after now she's back on the market and playing around with her answers) but in the moment, I had nothing! That's part of the issue - Plus I maybe also was already 'running out of things to say' here anyway. I just don't feel I have enough 'ammo' of 'fun' things to talk about! I have lots of 'techniques' down, and can pass lots of shit tests without thinking, can break rapport and neg and disqualify if she's very talkative, and can sexualise etc once it's clear I've got a shot, but lots of that stuff only comes into play a bit later on, and I don't get a chance to do lots of it because, as I say, there's just not enough ammo there for me to get a long enough interaction going to reach that point

Just the ability to be able to keep coming up with semi interesting questions and lines etc is what I need. Probably what most people who aren't great at this stuff need. But i'm forever searching for the solution

The solution is routines. namely routines that set frames in the interaction. so that you don't need to spend 45 minutes with her. All you need to do in your interaction is demonstrate that you will be a good sex provider (not fun things to talk about...although they can be fun to talk about. but that's not the goal). Ask yourself what does she need to know about me in order to fuck me tonight?

For me that is: that I know how to fuck girls. I don't judge girls for liking to fuck around. I'm discreet. Have had thrilling sex adventures so that if she were to come home with me tonight. or take me home. It would be a win for HER. In terms of getting to have some amazing sex with someone who actually knows what they're doing (understand that human beings are selfish. and are only motivated to do things if they stand to benefit from it).

Ok then ask yourself how can I transition into talking about these things.

For this I wrote this post for exactly that purpose

Transitions - Transitions into demonstrating SNL traits

Here's a little something to help some of you guys take your game to the next level. When gaming, one of the things I do post hook is try to demonstrate as many traits of my self that are conductive to Single Night Lays. I simply name them SNL traits. These can be showing her how you have high...

www.skilledseducer.com

Now to demonstrate these SNL traits very easily, what I've done is created universal transitions that can work on every girl. So that you can talk about these in all of your seductions. Having these transitions in your pocket, allows you to bring them out anytime you want, so that you don't have to rely on the girl talking about something semi related so that you can go into your gambits.

The part that I quoted above is key. You see that, whats unique about my routines, is that in order to start talking about them, you don't need HER to be talking about her ex or whatever in order for you to think, oh I'll ask her, "what sort of guys she's after nowadays" in order to turn the interaction flirty. You can just be talking about guys in the bar in general and then, ask her "what’s usually the type of guy you usually go for?" and have a routine where from here you'd demonstrate one of the above traits you want her to know about you.

I talk about in the post above in how you go about memorizing these routines.

Here's one of my latest ones I've been working on.

This (like my 'discreet' routine) I'll save for later in the interaction. Only because by doing so it will influence the story she tells me, after I've been talking about sex the entire time. If I ask her the question below, earlier in the interaction, then her "most memorable experience" might be less sexual. ("what we present first changes the way people experience what we present to them next.” - Robert Cialdini, presuasion)

So how long have you lived here for or are you visiting?

if lives here: oh what’s been your most memorable experience you've had here so far?

if doesn’t know: like what instantly comes to mind when you think back that was an amazing day.

yeah thats sound amazing. but it sounds like its been a while. you ever traveled outside of the city?

if visiting here: have you had any fun experience here so far? like what.

what’s your favorite place you’ve ever been to? why.

I’ve never been there (or if I've had then share something about that place). but i was in (similarity to her favorite place). whats your reason you like to travel I’m curious?

her: blah blah blah.

Me well, I went on this really crazy streak. So I was involved in a serious car accident a couple years ago and long story short, I ended up in the hospital. No memory at all of what happened. I woke up and the doctor said, that if I get hit in the back side of my head with like the same amount of impact. it would completely wipe away my memory. and at the time, i was reading a lot about traveling, gathering resources, and fantasizing about all this traveling I would do, once I left college or whatever. .but then with this near death experience...it like really made me understand how fragile life can be. Tomorrow's not given. Like who cares if I’ve got all these resources, money and all these "plans" I'll do someday, if I’m dead. I’ll never get to do them. so I was pretty much like hey if not now, then when? what the fuck are you waiting for. lets do it right now. and I did. and its also kind of why my favorite memories are pretty fucking crazy compared to most people (tease to get her to want me to tell her one of my sex stories).

The goal of this gambit is twofold. One is to set 'sense an urgency' frame (lets get outta this bar right now) and two....give me leverage to get her outta this bar....by making her want to hear one of these crazy stories (my sex stories). ("I keep all my stories on my phone, I can share one of them with you if you want. But its getting pretty wack in here. You wanna get outta here (expecting a yes)"?)

another thing you'll notice above is that with my routines, I've broken them up in a way where, every time there's a question I ask in my routine, I'll ask myself "What if she does this?" So I that my gambits don't rely on her answering in one way. This way I'm prepared no matter what she responds to my questions. And still end up going where I want. I talk about this in this post:

If you do this, I win. If not...I win too.

This is something that's been on my mind ever since Alek Rolstad shared his sex therapist gambit on GC: https://www.girlschase.com/content/pickup-and-seduction-gambit-sex-therapist Specifically the part where he talks about the assumption about her NOT being able to orgasm with new guys. His...

www.skilledseducer.com

Think of routines, not as training wheels, but as weapons of mass seduction

 

[greenleaf]

Thing is, I've found sexualising convo and stuff to be bad news unless i'm WELL past the hookpoint (unless on very rare occasions where she's giving me strong IOI's and stuff)

I do love routines like that, that sexualise the convo, though. I actually have a few of my own. They don't necessarily paint me as some amazing lover tbh (I wouldn't even like to trick her like that! I've not got some massive cock or anything!) but I have found them to generally do the job (they paint me as non-judgemental about sex because it involved me admitting to things)

My issue is that I need routines/gambits to just help me 'spike' her and engage her properly for the open/transition. (as we spoke about before, sometimes i'm able to do this if my opener itself is a routine of sorts, such as a roleplay about being her date, but lots of the time, that sort of opener really isn't congruent or is seemingly just too 'out there' for lots of the girls here)

Everything can work, of course. I've hooked (and sometimes pulled) from Julien style interview mode. Even from legit AFC interview mode without the breaking rapport and teasing of her answers etc! But i'm sitting here now trying to 'imagine' what I could have opened and transitioned with in the interactions that went nowhere at all that nights. I feel like I've legitimately tried out so many lines and theories from pro PUA's with no better success than anything else. I'm so curious to know whether it's due to things like UK culture or/and the fact i'm mainly going for 18 year olds who just don't seem to want to talk to randoms in general.

Your advice could deffo have helped with the 'boyfriend' girl, though. She was certainly at least hooked. Don't know whether she was attracted or not, but that was probably about the time to run such routines. I'm very angry at myself for ejecting now. I just think my state further crashed when she was making it clear she still liked her ex a LOT, and kept stressing how he was like 6ft 6 and looked like a loveislander! (and i'm like 5'7'' or so lol)

And my state was a bit shit all night. I felt like I was either in my head, trying to remember my spreadsheet on my PC with convo topics and pushpull lines and stuff, but couldn't recall! OR at other times I was trying to be 'present' and not thinking about that stuff, BUT then everything I had to talk about just seemed boring!! State certainly effects my game a fair bit. I sometimes think having a super exciting life would help in terms of conversations, but surely we don't all need to be a skydiving instructor or something to be able to game girls. I'm sure there's guys with normal jobs who are stuck in a warehouse or at a PC who don't struggle to think of things to talk about.

Closest thing I've found in terms of what I think I need (routines to help hook sets) is like the magic bullets routines manual, but I know from reading the examples instinctively that it's not gonna fly here in the UK and will just look weird to them! I just know, lol. I'd really love to strap a mic too a number of random 'naturals' in UK bars to see what sort of stuff they say to hook sets. I was hoping that the dude who kind of embarrassed me the other night would teach me a thing or two, but he wasn't able to get a word out of the girls, either lol

Feels like every day on reddit, someone else chimes in about UK girls being different.

''
Brit here. "Game" like Mystery or Todd V's methods will not work with any consistency in the UK. It is far too brash. Those frameworks were calibrated against girls in big American cities and serve very little if any use in a culture as reserved as the UK's.

You may get more milage in uni cities if you go out during freshers, but it still isn't as effective.

The speech and body language you use is very important. Negs almost never work against UK women you would want to sleep with. The typical "alpha" verbiage will cringe people out more often than impress them. Your "value" is largely determined by the company you keep. Money doesn't seem to have the same cache as it does stateside. It's a very different culture.

You should preface your approaches with "apologetic" language such as "I'm sorry for being rude, it's just..." or "Excuse me for interrupting, but..." instead of the direct language used by Mystery or Todd V. I know this will be shot down by some PUA's, but the culture is just very different and being too direct will cause people to mistrust you.

In my experience, you can use circumstance to approach groups of women and either join their circle of friends, or invite them into yours. Once in, it is a case of building rapport. It is rare to encounter women on their own on a night out, and generally they are not as open to cold approach as groups are.

By circumstance, I mean you must use an external reason to justify your approach. Even something as small returning a dropped phone can be used as a springboard for opening a group. Keep it light and focus on getting people to be comfortable around you.

A good trick is approaching people who are leaving the same venue as you and asking them which club they're going to next. It's not always successful at joining a group, but it almost always opens a positive conversation.

With this in mind, some girls are just fucking boring and unreceptive. A lot will automatically distrust you for being alone. You gave them a shot and they didn't try to make an effort. Whether that was because of how you came across or because they were just boring is irrelevant. Next time, just stand up, dust yourself off, and go find some other people who actually do want to do something fun.

''



And there's basically zero nightgame infields from UK PUA's approaching local girls. All that exists is daytime infields, usually on tourists who might get a spike out of being compared too a hamster, whereas UK girls look at you like 'wtf??' lol

This way I'm prepared no matter what she responds to my questions

You made me think of a way I might try to tackle this. Think of 'follow ups' to her answers to my 'normal guy' questions that might help hook. For example, I have a few little 'lines' and teases etc for when she answers her age and name, but maybe If I think of 'good' replies to her answers for things like asking where she's going that night, who she's with etc, it might be worth investigating. Can't think of any example replies from me yet, but i'll have a think

 

[Velasco]

I do love routines like that, that sexualise the convo, though. I actually have a few of my own. They don't necessarily paint me as some amazing lover tbh (I wouldn't even like to trick her like that! I've not got some massive cock or anything!)

It's not about tricking her lol. you should be an amazing lover. Ultimately all your routines should just convey the person you already are in the best light possible (the routine I shared above, about the car accident is a true story. all i did is tweak it a bit for seduction purposes).

I personally learned how to be one by watching male pornstars who received a lot of comments from girls on their videos with shit like "I wish someone would fuck me like that " and imitated them (from the way they fucked, performed foreplay, to all the subtle things girls would comment about their nonverbals (girls are better at noticing this shit than us))

This is the subreddit I used to check out https://www.reddit.com/r/chickflixxx/top/?t=all for that. Not sure if its still the same quality as it was a couple years ago. P.S. I don't have a massive cock either lol

but I have found them to generally do the job (they paint me as non-judgemental about sex because it involved me admitting to things)

Yeah that's one important quality that'll def help you move shit forward. Just need to create a couple more to convey the other traits about yourself.

I felt like I was either in my head, trying to remember my spreadsheet on my PC with convo topics and pushpull lines and stuff, but couldn't recall!

Convo topics and lines or fully fleshed out routines you've created and spent time memorizing?

Or If you don't want to memorize routines, then at least create a couple of short transition gambits that will allow you to seamlessly transition into talking about these topics you want to talk about and then just freestyle from there.

. I'm sure there's guys with normal jobs who are stuck in a warehouse or at a PC who don't struggle to think of things to talk about.

yeah I'm one of them. That's why I avoid talking about her job (cause then she'll just end up returning the question back to me).

I just talk about the exciting things that I've done throughout my life, especially these last couple of years (traveling is really good for this). And several short stories about girls I've been with. Then fake apologize like, "sorry. It's just that most of my life's most memorable experiences involve other girls haha" so that I demonstrate preselection without making it look like that's what I was trying to do.

 

[greenleaf]

Convo topics and lines or fully fleshed out routines you've created and spent time memorizing?

Kind of both.
First issue is remembering anything at all from that spreadsheet in the moment when i'm struggling with a tough set and feeling anxious! Doesn't matter how much I try to practice and memorise it at home, in the moment, my mind often just goes blank. Very annoying. The spreadsheet is mixture of topics and questions (such as asking her about starsigns etc. Chick crack as Julien would say). Pushpull lines and Other stuff like little routines that are mainly used for well after the hookpoint in order to show intent and sexualise things. (I often don't get a chance to use that stuff though as sets end way before that point)

Like, I keep going over them 2 interactions (the 'boyfriend girl', and the 'very young hot girl' who was polite but just wasn't able to hook, in particular)

I'm going over the conversations in my head. (ps - conversation in script form often looks bad! I once done an experiment with this on 'seddit' and posted some FR's using reallife sets from various RSD instructors that I transcribed, but whether they were rejected or pulled in them sets, I wrote each interaction as if it ended in a rejection, and sure enough, every single poster was berating me about my awful game, saying the verbals were boring/weird/creepy bla bla bla.) This is the only forum i'd be happy writing it out as most here seem very genuine and understand the nuances better than reddit which tends to suffer extremely badly from hindsight bias when it comes to FR's!

The 'very young hot girl' was more a matter of me asking her things and making observations. Her responding (which is actually rare than you'd think around here!) but then me failing to really 'add on' anything to her responses. Takes me back to what I said about maybe needing to plan my replies to replies! And only ask things that I have such a 'response' for (that ideally has some game elements embedded in it)

The 'boyfriend' girl just happened to properly hook much easier despite me having the same issue as above. Could be that she was more attracted maybe? Or Could be that she was just more social and stuff/not quite so stifled and defensive? Don't know. So with her came a different problem of not being able to take the interaction somewhere, really. As you said, asking her what type of guys she likes would have been one way to try to being the next phase in that situation. I think what put me off doing that was 1/her waxxing lyrical about her super tall handsome ex and 2/I always imagine her reply to basically describe guys that aren't like me, and i'm not sure where i'd go with that. I'd likely point it out and joke about it and pretend to try to find her a guy for the night, although that's actually backfired on me before where I almost ended up getting the handsome barman laid with my target!! hahaha!

I know i'm probably boring you going on about them 2 fairly non-descript approaches, but they are quite good examples of the issues i've had in many sets over teh past few years and do a good job of highlighting the issues. (although I was a bit more in my head and stifled that night than usual, despite having less AA than I do sometimes, for some reason!)

I really wish I had other sets of mine in the past where i've pulled hot girls on tape! After nights like the weekend just gone where I felt a bit like Edward Scissorhands at times, I wonder how on earth I managed to pull some hot girls in the past after hour long convos where it was non-stop fun and laughs. Hearing them back would be good for me, but I think they're gone forever without some sort of regression hypnosis!! I did write FR's back then, but i'm starting to think they'd need to be almost in script form in order for me to get the most benefit from them.

When I think back to one of teh hottest girls I ever made out with (a few months back. I didn't get teh lay, but kissing her was a huge confidence boost as she was a very hot 18 year old).

Opener was on her friend. Asked what the occasion was which lead to talk about where she worked.
The hot girl came over to her and I asked the hot one if she worked at the same shop as the other girl.
Then some dude was all over the hot girl so I left her alone
Then I heard the hot girl tell the other girl that the guy was a creep
I re-opened her and was like ''Wait, that's not your boyfriend?!!'
She confirmed he was just some oddball who she thought might be trying to date rape her and wouldn't leave her alone lol
I told her that my friend was a good dancer and that we could dance better than the girls
They were like 'show us!' so we dragged both girls to the dancefloor and danced like retards for a bit with them, and it was fun
We all left to go to different bars but during the walk, I mentioned how I assumed she was older than 18 and then we got speaking about her uni course and I asked her what the guys were like and she said that they were all lame. I then asked how she meets guys and used it to kind of DHV about me meeting girls randomly as opposed to relying on social circle which she liked.
Then I noticed her friend was all over my super handsome slayer friend and used that as an opportunity to grab her and whisper in her rear ''You're friend like's my friend''. Kino. Spiked her niced. She then done the same thing back to me and was lke ''I know. And she's recently single!'.
We chatted a bit more, but then they left to go too a different bar.
However, little later, I saw her walk into the bar I was at (she knew i'd be there)
SHe almost made a beeline for me. Slightly blurry here. There were a few awkward silences and I was internally panicking a bit here, but I remember some routine (like a fuck marry kill game) that spiked the interaction back. After that, she was giving me eye contact taht I recognised and then Ii started giving her physical compliments and stuff and then she was kissing me.

Like, when I have a good interaction like that, my instinct is to try to force the exact same convos in the future, but it just doesn't always work out like that. At all lol.

Another one: I opened a seated 5 set and just asked where was good to go around here (new town). We immediately speak about where i'm from and we both start sharing stories as most of them know my area and convo is easy. I spot that the hottest one is looking a bit 'left out' and I say 'Awww....are you feeling left out. Wait there'' and I go and sit by her. I start asking her silly questions a bit like JulienRSD in one of his infields (favourite candy etc). She talks about music and I start showing her something I can do that most people can't (a certain difficult drum beat using my hands on the table). This leads to some fun as she tries and struggles and as I teach her a little trick. At this point she has to go to the bathroom, but now an even hotter one from the group has turned up and is standing next to me. I open her and tell her I like her friend and that she's a bit crazy. This new girl immediately qualifies herself and is like ''If you like her, you'll like me evcen more!'' Game on! I think again I struggled at times soon after within thinking of things to say etc, but eventually I was able to sexualise it and ended up fingering her in a bathroom lol

It's just weird how I can't seem to recreate my better sets at all. I'm like 2 different people at times. I try to take things from my better sets to see if there's certain 'keys' in them interactions that I need to 'push' more in future sets, but it can be very hard to force certain things!

Anyway, long story short, and thought going into my next FR!
might go back to openers that have a kind of inbuilt 'transition' embedded in them to help me 'hook'. (pretending to be her blind date, or introducing myself in a silly way, giving her lots of 'barbs' or bait to hook onto) This runs the risk of some awkward blowouts with girls hwo think i'm an oddball, but maybe that's OK. Maybe it's just a different type of rejection, and them same girls would still reject me if I opened them 'normally'. Like, they'd just be sets where the girls didn't reply much and it would be a stilted set rather than a set where there was just a missmatch in humour

 

[Velasco]

me failing to really 'add on' anything to her responses. Takes me back to what I said about maybe needing to plan my replies to replies! And only ask things that I have such a 'response' for (that ideally has some game elements embedded in it)

Exactly

asking her what type of guys she likes would have been one way to try to being the next phase in that situation. I think what put me off doing that was 1/her waxxing lyrical about her super tall handsome ex and 2/I always imagine her reply to basically describe guys that aren't like me, and i'm not sure where i'd go with that.

Like here for example. You instinctively know that there's a strong possibility she's going to describe guys who aren't like you, so that would not be doing you any favors here. What you can do instead is steal a variation from the way I ask that question:

what’s usually the type of guy you go for? or actually is there a type of guy who you’d never go for? Like would you ever date a indian guy? what about short guys? oh why not (otherwise she’ll talk about the personality of the guy. not the physical).
I actually like short girls a lot. you know why? You can do a lot more positions with them. Like what do you think my favorite sex position is. Knowing that I like short girls. i wanna see if you can guess right.

What about you what’s your favorite position? The one that gives you most pleasure. what is it that you like about X? yeah I like X position too. It used to make me cum fast. Have you experienced that before? a guy lasting 30 seconds.

Interesting. what I find that helps me is being in the moment. slowing down. being with someone who you have good chemistry with. Wanting to slowing work your way around their body. Kissing around. Seeing where the sensitive spots in her body are.
Her neck. Her ears. collarbone. her ribs. underneath her soft tits. her stomach. her thighs. that delicate area around her pussy. helps ease you into the moment. and makes the experience that much more pleasurable?

so here where I ask her, is there a type of guy who she'd never go for. You can instead of listing 'short guys' as an option (because you're 5' 7" yourself), list stereotypical types of guys who you know most girls would say they wouldn't go for (fat guys, bald guys, asians, etc). and then think about how you can transition from that. Like I list short guys last (instead of the first option of guys who she's never go for) in my routine, so that it allows me to seamlessly transition into talking about short girls. and from there, transition to talking about sex positions.

It's a bit of work to come up with these things. Spending a couple of hours of your day trying think of possible replies to your replies. then practicing out loud. But when you love the game, and want to get better at it, you don't really mind it too much.

It's just weird how I can't seem to recreate my better sets at all. I'm like 2 different people at times. I try to take things from my better sets to see if there's certain 'keys' in them interactions that I need to 'push' more in future sets, but it can be very hard to force certain things!

I see two good DHV routines you can work on for earlier in your interaction. You mentioned earlier that you've got enough material to sexualize the conversation, but don't end up getting a chance to use them because the convos end before getting to that point.

since you mainly go for 18 year olds, you can continue asking girls about their uni course work...use that to transition to talking about what the guys are like in her school (I ask a similar question with girls that are from a different country. "how are the guys in X country different from american guys?"). use that to DHV yourself. And expand on that routine by embedding a couple more game elements into it.

As for the second one, all you need to do is get the conversation on music....and then maybe use your, "I can do something that most people can't" as an open loop to isolate her to a table, to do the drum beat trick.

Just throwing out some shit to get you thinking along those lines. I don't mind spending 30 minutes of my day breaking down other people's FRs/game. This is a favorite hobby of mine

 

[greenleaf]

@Velasco Thanks. I'm glad to have your ear. Shame others aren't more active with actionable help, but tbh, most advice seems to be kind of nebulous, or just seems culturally incongruent to the kind of girls i'm hitting on, so no big deal.

As for the second one, all you need to do is get the conversation on music....and then maybe use your, "I can do something that most people can't" as an open loop to isolate her to a table, to do the drum beat trick

I sometimes use a fake job as a 'music teacher' to use that routine . In fact, In hindsight, that shows how I was very 'in my head' with the hot 'boyfriend girl' (going back to what I said earlier about forgetting everything in the moment) as she literally asked me what I do. I think I said 'guess' and then answered her with a real answer and then started scanning my brain for the next topic to talk about.

I have a little routine for her answer to asking her name (which also reminds me. With the 'hot blaze' girl, I don't think I even asked her name! The set was like I made a throw away comment that made her laugh but she then looked away. I then made a comment on her that she replied with a one word answer and she smiled and looked away. I then made a comment about where she might be going that night and asked her age which she answered, but at that point, I was like ''She's not even trying. She's not into me. Next' and gave up, but in hindsight, sometimes something as simple as asking their name can kind of force them to 'engage' and I need to make a habbit of it. Seems like the most obvious thing in the world, but I've got an inner resistance to making it 'personal' when girls are a bit hostile as I feel it looks a bit socially unnaware)

I need to think of some 'replies to replies' for other common UK questions:

Where are you going/have you been to tonight?
Who are you here with? (usually it's just a few girls (2-4 sets))
What brings you out? (usually there's no reason. Just girls getting their weekend drink on. Occasionally, it's a birthday or a works do or something which makes it a little easier)

(any ideas? When I was travelling, girls would ask me who I was with or what brought me there, and i'd go into a fake story about a girlfriend i'd just dumped and how we were supposed to go together etc, and I feel it really helped me in some sets as it showed pre-selection, an adventurous side, and other qualities. Maybe something like that?)

One other thing with the 'boyfriend girl' set is that in hindsight, I didn't break rapport at all, really. Even just throwing out a Julien type 'I hate you' line after I asked her starsign would maybe have changed the dynamic ever so slightly. But yeah, I was so stifled and in my head in that set. Was still fairly early, she was very hot, and threw me off with her handsome boyfriend talk! I was very outcome dependant like I was sitting an exam lol

Also, what do you think about verbalising intent? (not as an opener. I have my own thoughts about that with UK girls which i'll tell you if you are interested lol)

But i'm talking about after the open. I know yareally used to sometimes advice indirect-direct game. What do you think about it? In hindsight I feel like with the 'boyfriend girl', just telling her she was cute or something could have actually been a good move. (probably especially since shed just been dumped!! )
I feel like sometimes just saying that (obviously in sets that aren't going too bad) can give HER a chance to start to flirt a little and from that point, almost everything becomes 10x easier. There's also another guy called evolutionDaily who seems to run game like that (you know who that is?) Lots of his sets are like ''Hey, how's your night going? What's your name, what do you do bla bla bla…..''You're really cute, by the way'' kind of thing.
I know there's lots of disagreements about that sort of stuff, though. I know most advice is along the lines of showing her and not telling her, or not showing intent at all unless she is etc (I'd certainly not have done that with the 'blaze' girl!), but I wonder if there's some advantages to that sort of game, too

I'm hopefully out this weekend with a different wingman to my usual wings. Sometimes the change is good

 

[Beam]

Hey greenleaf, I've been reading a couple of your posts and I think you and I are in very similar positions (though you're more experienced than me). Both late 20s, angling towards younger crowds (late teens/early 20s).

I live in Australia where the drinking age is also 18 and the girls are very similar to how people describe girls in the UK (cold approach is more uncommon and social circle is king). When you describe feeling lost about what to say in the moment despite having written it down in a spreadsheet and struggling to replicate passed successes, it's like you're describing me to a tee. Hopefully we can bounce ideas off each other and crack the UK/Australia code

 

[greenleaf]

Hey greenleaf, I've been reading a couple of your posts and I think you and I are in very similar positions (though you're more experienced than me). Both late 20s, angling towards younger crowds (late teens/early 20s).

I live in Australia where the drinking age is also 18 and the girls are very similar to how people describe girls in the UK (cold approach is more uncommon and social circle is king). When you describe feeling lost about what to say in the moment despite having written it down in a spreadsheet and struggling to replicate passed successes, it's like you're describing me to a tee. Hopefully we can bounce ideas off each other and crack the UK/Australia code

I spent a lot of time on seddit back in the day, and many people comment on how, in particular, UK, Germany and Australia is very different compared to the US in terms of cold approach and stuff.

I learnt that myself when I was in the US (although obviously as a traveller in their country they WOULD be more receptive to me) BUT I noticed it watching other locals interact, too. They are just so social and friendly and talkative with strangers. It's awesome, tbh. So yeah, we're probably in similar boats. Cold approach can be more challenging, it seems. And yeah, social circle really is king! I'm so sad I never had the chance to exploit a social circle situation with tonnes of hot girls in it as that's when I actually see ugly dudes banging hot girls lol. Never cold approach (although I have done it before! Always ask myself whether it was more luck than skill, though!)

It's a shame there's so little in the way of infields etc that are relatable. In terms of UK youtubers, it's only daygame, and the only time they get any success, is when hitting on Foreigners in London lol. The local girls just ignore/reject them 95% of the time. Don't think there's ever been a single nightgame infield in the UK as crazy at that sounds lol

I remember seeing some infields from 'Saul' before he deleted all his stuff. I think he was Australian, however, again, not only was he a tall handsome dude, he also seemed to only be succeeding with hitting on tourists and stuff.

edit: ps - I see you got a hot lay from hinge? I'm jealous!! Tinder has barely given me a single match in like 3 years!!

 

[Velasco]

I sometimes use a fake job as a 'music teacher' to use that routine . In fact, In hindsight, that shows how I was very 'in my head' with the hot 'boyfriend girl' (going back to what I said earlier about forgetting everything in the moment) as she literally asked me what I do. I think I said 'guess' and then answered her with a real answer and then started scanning my brain for the next topic to talk about.

'music teacher' should be your go-to answer then (that way you won't forget in the moment. she asks what you do - you say music teacher). and in order to get her to ask you that. you should just start asking all girls what they do, so they'll ask you the question back in return. To get the routine going.

another way to get them to ask you what you do is to use this "because of my job" tactic from Alex Lindberg's (who is based in Australia) job routine:

Me: “Where are you from?”
Her: “I’m from England. Where are you from?”
Me: “Ah that’s cool, I meet a lot of English people with my job.”

She should ask you what you do for work now. If she doesn’t, rinse and repeat like this:

Me: “How long are you in Budapest?
Her: “We’re here until Friday. You?
Me: “I’m here for a long time because of my job.”

When she finally asks what my job is, I'll go..

"I can't tell you yet. Maybe when I know you better. "
"No come on, tell me what you do for work."
"Ehh it's kinda embarassing.. how's the weather back in England?"
"You're trying to change the subject!! Just tell me what you do for work"
"I'm not sure.. It's pretty controversial."
"Please tell me!!"
"You're gonna judge the fuck out of me if I tell you."
"No I promise I don't judge!!"
"Yeah right.. all girls say that. They pretend to be non-judgmental when in reality, they're not."
"No I'm not like that!!"

(See the frames I manage to inject here as well? I'm making HER put the non-judgmental frame, which is gonna help A LOT when trying to pull later on. We got Commitment & Consistency working for us big-time.)

"All right.. you can have three guesses. Go."

Most common ones I get are pornstar, drug dealer, male prostitute, male stripper, or escort.

I will reply to these with “sort of, but not really. It’s vaguely related” to keep them chasing.

I have a little routine for her answer to asking her name (which also reminds me. With the 'hot blaze' girl, I don't think I even asked her name!

sometimes something as simple as asking their name can kind of force them to 'engage' and I need to make a habbit of it.

Then from now on, ask them after your opener or immediately after your 'music teacher' routine (your brain should be like, "ok used the 'music teacher' routine on her, she was kinda receptive to it...now I'll go into my 'name routine' "so what's your name btw"... so there's no "faaaack what do I say now" lol)

I need to think of some 'replies to replies' for other common UK questions:

Where are you going/have you been to tonight?
Who are you here with? (usually it's just a few girls (2-4 sets))
What brings you out? (usually there's no reason. Just girls getting their weekend drink on. Occasionally, it's a birthday or a works do or something which makes it a little easier)

(any ideas?

I don't ask the first one. The second is for logistics purposes...to know if she's here with her boyfriend or if one of the girls in her group is her roommate. so I'll follow up with, "these your roommates?")

to the last one, if she says no reason, then I'll cold read, "ahh you just wanted to blow off steam from this stressful week (I purposely don't be specific here so that it increases my odds of being right. If I were to guess the source of her stress was from her workload, but the stress was actually coming from her parents/friends/ex-boyfriend, exams etc, then she'd say no)" which'll usually get a yeah (girls are always stressed about some bullshit). Then I'll cold read again, "yeah I can tell by the way your standing and your eyes" then you can come up with a 'stressed out' routine from there. ("see usually when people slouch their shoulders like your doing and the size of your pupils are uneven (complete bullshit btw...but chick crack nonetheless lol) it signals that there's something that person is stressed out about. and then try to come with how you can connect that (stressed out about life) to sex.

and sometimes they'll just ask me in return what brought me out? in those cases, I'll just be honest and say "I'm just here to pickup girls" to amuse myself (which spikes their BT. Then'll talk about how they appreciate the honesty).

When I was travelling, girls would ask me who I was with or what brought me there, and i'd go into a fake story about a girlfriend i'd just dumped and how we were supposed to go together etc, and I feel it really helped me in some sets as it showed pre-selection, an adventurous side, and other qualities. Maybe something like that?)

good I like this. also shows them that your an asshole

I feel like sometimes just saying that (obviously in sets that aren't going too bad) can give HER a chance to start to flirt a little and from that point, almost everything becomes 10x easier.

I never call girls cute or hot unless she's done something 'cute' or revealed something about herself that was 'hot' (like a sex story) (so I call them 'cute' and 'hot' based on behavior. Not physical makeup). But if it works for you, then keep doing it.

There's also another guy called evolutionDaily who seems to run game like that (you know who that is?)

I personally think Aaron is cringe (sorry lol). I've seen enough infields of to come to that conclusion.

I'm hopefully out this weekend with a different wingman to my usual wings. Sometimes the change is good

definitely mate. look forward to reading your LR this weekend

 

[Beam]

It's a shame there's so little in the way of infields etc that are relatable. In terms of UK youtubers, it's only daygame, and the only time they get any success, is when hitting on Foreigners in London lol. The local girls just ignore/reject them 95% of the time. Don't think there's ever been a single nightgame infield in the UK as crazy at that sounds lol

When I got coaching at the end of last year my coach mainly had success with foreign girls doing daygame (but he still has had some success with local girls too and this guy is a short asian dude in his mid 30s but he's pretty handsome and jacked, but these are purely sexual relationships and not sustainable as LTRs). When I started the program I specifically asked him for strategies he used to pick up local girls (since ultimately what I want is a hot local girl as a girlfriend) as opposed to foreign girls, but most of the advice he gave me and places he told me to go were angled towards foreign girls. Most of the other guys who game in my city (they have a discussion group which I'm a part of) almost only target foreign girls and have even said they specifically don't go for australian girls since they're too difficult, so there's not much competition but also not many people who I can use as a role model here.

I've actually had some some success with local girls recently with daygame (as in multiple dates, no lays yet though but that's my own fault, shitty text game) - but they have generally seemed more mature or slightly older and dressed slightly more modestly. One was 22, founded and still runs a popular bar crawl in my city(with thousands of members) on Meetup when she was 19. These are the girls who have had a bit more life experience and understand how difficult it can be to find someone worthwhile within your social circles (since theirs may have gotten smaller over time which naturally seems to happen as you get older and people pair off and disappear. In the case of the 22 year old most of the guys she met were through meetup and so probably weren't the best quality) so appreciate and understand what you're doing a lot more.

But your average hot 20 year old dressed to the nines walking down the street who has her huge group of high school and uni friends can't understand why you would need to do that and would think somethings wrong with you since you can't find someone in your group and will just shut you down (in day-game at least, night-game is still definitely doable as my coaches have proven but even then, having a friend or saying you're with/were with friends even if you're solo is still wise)

I remember seeing some infields from 'Saul' before he deleted all his stuff. I think he was Australian, however, again, not only was he a tall handsome dude, he also seemed to only be succeeding with hitting on tourists and stuff.

I don't know Sauls stuff but I feel like if he was with a mate and they were both shooting the shit together and having fun in the street, they might have had a lot more luck with the local hot early 20s girls. Just speculating though.

One other avenue which would work in our cities is perhaps learning how to be a performer or some sort (being in a band/performing stand up etc). In cities where social circle is king, this will definitely give you more social cred.

edit: ps - I see you got a hot lay from hinge? I'm jealous!! Tinder has barely given me a single match in like 3 years!!

Thanks . She was hot, I was actually nervous. Also don't be jealous because tinder sucks for me too and I barely match with anyone on it - that's why I focus of Hinge (don't have Bumble anymore but might try it again)