- Joined
- Jan 17, 2019
- Messages
- 774
So this was a new experience. Even though it was from tinder it again highlights a sticking point that I have run into quite a lot over the last two months in particular. The picture is becoming a lot clearer regarding where my new weak spots are. It wasn't the worst fail in the world but I made it a FU because I went against my intuition at many points.
Background:
Match to Meet
I had been ignoring online for a few weeks but on Wednesday night I decided to give it another go. I have tinder gold so I can see who has liked me. out of the 90 or so that were there I saw a beautiful blonde who was just my type who I’ll call H from now on. Tall, fashionable, she honestly looked like a catwalk model in her pictures and I could tell she wasn't a catfish. I matched with her and opened with "Wow. You look like like my future ex wife", which is a line I got from a guy I know. She responded almost immediately which caught me by surprise. We message back and forth in the roleplay, talking about who was going to get the dogs, where we were going to go on our honeymoon etc etc and I then feigned going to the travel agent and telling her that they needed an emergency contact number to get her number. She gave it to me and I told her I'd let her know what the travel agent came back with. All up this happened in an hour. I went to bed.
The next day (Thursday) my city announced it was going into lockdown again due to a spike in cases. Lame. I text H after work saying that our trip couldn't go ahead and we couldn't drink our sorrows away in the bar anymore. In the next few hours she pretty much invited herself straight over to my house that night (see text convo). This blew my mind. Could not believe this was actually happening. Again further evidence that there is still a bit disconnect between how I see myself vs how others see me.
Important notes from the text convo – she suggested getting drinks and bringing them to me. I should have let her do this to build compliance but instead I mentioned that I had wine instead. She also wanted to come straight over – in my silly mind I thought that would make it seem like I was no challenge and so I suggested a bar 2 minutes away from mine instead. She later on suggested skipping the bar and coming straight to mine – this time I agreed. Possibly could have been more challenging and told her what to wear? This girl was being submissive and asking if it was still ok to come over, asking what level of comfortable she was allowed to wear, suggesting bringing drinks over. I was not used to this at all and reverted to a “it’s ok, I’m fine with whatever”. Of course I would have loved for her to come over dressed up sexily, but I was afraid of losing her by coming across too demanding.
When she tried screening me by asking for my Instagram I deflected using a shortened variation of what Chase suggested (I botched it a bit and it didn’t really make sense). She accepted it. She called before leaving, I gave her the address then texted it to her.
At Mine
I knew what this girl wanted. I mean, she invited herself over to my house at 10:30 on a weeknight. I dressed up in my nice fur jacket, ripped jeans and low cut v neck – didn’t want to overdress considering she wasn’t but also didn’t want to just wear my PJs.
When she arrived, she was dressed down. Glasses, gym tights and a black and white jumper. She didn’t look like her pics that’s because she wasn’t done up not because she was a catfish – I knew that this girl would be an absolute bombshell once she did herself up. Despite this, she still looked delicious. Mmm.
I made sure to bring her in close for a hug to greet her. I knew I had to keep touching her throughout and that the longer I waited the more awkward it would get. However, at this point I was looking for signs of immediate attraction from her – and didn’t spot any. I gave her a quick tour, she sat down on the bar stools next to my kitchen, I sat down afterwards – we chatted, she said something about being sad today and I said loudly and confidently “do you need a hug” and pulled her in close. She laughed. Talked some more – my intent was to find out more about her – I didn’t want to come across as too easy and wanted to show I had standards more than just her looks – I was struggling to find the line between giving her what she came here for and screening her. This was all happening so fast I wasn’t sure what to do. 10:30pm on a weeknight – she obviously wants something to happen fast but how do I do this while still maintaining my value and coming across as a challenge?
I suggested we grab wine (me leading her following which was good) and she happily agreed. We drank, talked some more, I was brushing her leg with mine and maintaining close contact. The bar seats were a bit uncomfortable and I thought of sitting on the couch but decided not too. Failure to lead on my part. 5 minutes later she suggested going to the couch and I agreed. Her leading, me following.
On the couch, we talked more. Maintained close proximity, she was showing me pictures on her phone. Still, I was nervous and waiting for permission, was too afraid to be open and sexual with her. I should also point out that my housemate was home and it was a weeknight, so this played into it as well. I didn’t want to be too loud to disturb her sleeping and as a result my voice was soft and kind of meek. I didn’t tell her that but in retrospect I should have I did maintain touch, asking her to show me her tattoos and holding her hand in mine to observe them. I thought we should start watching a movie but again didn’t say it – failure to lead. 5 minutes later again, she suggested watching a movie. I agreed. Her leading, me following.
When the movie came on she grabbed a blanket, asked if I wanted the blanket as well and then when I agreed, cuddled up into my arms. Her leading, me following. I clumsily suggested lying down – so we lied down, me spooning her with a massive boner. My plan was to start kissing her neck but her head was at an awkward position where I would have had to reach too far and her hair was in the way. I asked her if she had any earrings and while doing so brushed her hair out of the way to expose her neck and ears. She said they were pierced but she didn’t have any earrings right now and asked why I wanted to know. “Just curious”. Now her neck was exposed again my head was at an awkward ankle where I couldn’t easily start kissing it. So I clumsily asked her if she wanted a massage. She said “Relax, let’s just chill and enjoy the moment”. I agreed. Falling into her frame. We lied there spooning watching this boring ass movie, me with a massive bulge in my pants pressed up against her. Ok, what was the plan now. Escalate, or wait until the movie was done and then invite her to stay the night (this was her plan I suspect) and then escalate in my bed.
After 10 minutes of this her phone rang. She sprang up. It was her housemate. Apparently she had locked herself out of the house. H looked frustrated and sounded annoyed, saying she would come to let her in but that “she owed her breakfast and coffee”. After the call got done she lied down sighing saying she had to go. At this point, I climbed on top of her and said “that’s a real shame”, pulling her in for a makeout. It didn’t feel forced and was actually quite natural. She kissed me back but then said “I can’t, I have to go”. Getting up, she apologized, saying she had dozed off. As she was getting her things, she stood up to face me. Again, I went close to her and made out. Again it didn’t feel forced. She said “I can’t!”. “I know” I said with a smirk and pulled back. My intent wasn’t to overcome this resistance – she had to go get her housemate. The intent of this was to show her some passion that had been missing all night because I knew when she left if there had not been any makeout at least the chances of her wanting to see me again would be even more miniscule than they already probably were.
Outside, she turned to me and said “I’m sorry, lets hang out again. You live like 2 minutes away”. She actually does live close by. She then left. This was 12:00, one and a half hours after she arrived.
The next morning, I was on tinder and noticed she had uploaded some new pics to her profile. I texted her around midday, and she responded in an hour.
I then got busy with work and didn’t respond until 6:30pm. That was Friday night (we are in lockdown now so everyones plans got cancelled). It is Sunday 2pm now and I have not had any response. This is after she was responding within minutes.
I posted to some other facebook groups with suggestions. Common consensus was yes, she came over for sex and you weren’t dominant/sexual/aggressive enough so when it didn’t happen, despite the housemate wildcard, she backwards rationalized that you were not as sexy as she thought.
While most didn’t have a problem with my last text and said how I handled her when she came over was the problem, one guy pointed out that the last text was sexualizing out of nowhere, that it put pressure on her to lead to sexualization and that’s why she hadn’t responded yet, because she didn’t want to initiate and be seen as a slut. He suggested that instead of that I should have said something like “Got to say that after we kissed, my imagination was going places…” so that she would come back with a no brainer response: “Humm, wonder where”.
Common advice has been to hang tight and reengage with something funny/stupid on Monday (like a Ryan Gosling “It’s Monday” meme). A lot of the guys think there is still a chance she will come around, especially if I am cool about it and since she lives so close (so it’s a lot easier). My only concern is that she is probably texting quite a few other guys right now. Given how keen she was to come straight over to mine, it’s not hard to imagine that she will do the same for some other guy – especially now since with lockdown bars are closed. And if that guy manages to seal the deal – it’s game over.
Overall: This was an interesting experience. Again pretty cringeworthy on my part. And it all comes back to the common theme that you’ve probably noticed in a few of my recent field reports now. I consistently am getting outframed by very attractive women and fall into a dynamic where I am the follower and they are the leader. I am letting this happen because I am afraid of expressing my desires, I am waiting for her permission to move the courtship forward rather than leading. A small part of me has not fully grasped the fact that I am an attractive man and that girls see me as such and so it still feels weird when girls act submissive towards me – because I still don’t feel that way deep inside. And so I don’t act the part. Partly because I am afraid of coming across too demanding. Part of it is also, I am way too chill when a girl resists my advances. I just go “ok” and let her win. I used to tell myself that it was precisely that – that I just don’t care that much. But the reality is, I do care. A lot. I am going “ok” when she resists my advances because I am falling into her frame, because I am afraid of taking a risk and losing her. I am sticking in comfort (cuddling her) because it feels nice and I don’t want to lose that. Of course I would rather be banging her than cuddling. But because I am not taking these risks I am stuck in a limbo that is not only unsatisfying for me but unsatisfying for her too.
But I have to look at the positives as well. I handpicked the hottest girl I could find on tinder out of my list of matches and gamed her over text so well that she invited herself over to my house on a weeknight for sex. That is an ego booster. These bits of evidence keep piling up and I have to remember them every time I start doubting my attractiveness. There are no failures only lessons.
Background:
Match to Meet
I had been ignoring online for a few weeks but on Wednesday night I decided to give it another go. I have tinder gold so I can see who has liked me. out of the 90 or so that were there I saw a beautiful blonde who was just my type who I’ll call H from now on. Tall, fashionable, she honestly looked like a catwalk model in her pictures and I could tell she wasn't a catfish. I matched with her and opened with "Wow. You look like like my future ex wife", which is a line I got from a guy I know. She responded almost immediately which caught me by surprise. We message back and forth in the roleplay, talking about who was going to get the dogs, where we were going to go on our honeymoon etc etc and I then feigned going to the travel agent and telling her that they needed an emergency contact number to get her number. She gave it to me and I told her I'd let her know what the travel agent came back with. All up this happened in an hour. I went to bed.
The next day (Thursday) my city announced it was going into lockdown again due to a spike in cases. Lame. I text H after work saying that our trip couldn't go ahead and we couldn't drink our sorrows away in the bar anymore. In the next few hours she pretty much invited herself straight over to my house that night (see text convo). This blew my mind. Could not believe this was actually happening. Again further evidence that there is still a bit disconnect between how I see myself vs how others see me.
Thursday, Jul 15, 2021
B (5:17 pm): Hey H! It's B from tinder
B (5:17 pm): The agent came back to me - I've got some good news and I've got some bad news
H (5:23 pm): Well if it isn't my future husband
H (5:23 pm):
H (5:23 pm): Hit me with me
B (5:45 pm): The bad news - Cancun and NZ are out and we can't drink away our sorrows in a bar now
H (5:45 pm): Until 12pm....
H (5:45 pm): Hahahaha
B (5:46 pm): 12am you mean, true
B (5:47 pm): The good news - We both live in [suburb] so he gave me a list of parks and bottle shops to check out instead, lol
H (5:48 pm): I'm getting dinner with a couple friends after work. But maybe after a quick drink somewhere?
Do you live alone or?
B (5:50 pm): I have housemates but they're chill. Could do a drink a bit later on actually - what time will you get done?
H (5:51 pm): I don't think it'll be late. Otherwise I can get some drinks and bring them to you or I mean, there's a whole 4 more nights of lockdown, so can facilitate whenever I'm not at work ahha
B (5:57 pm): How sweet ;P The [bar] is right around the corner from mine (it has a bottle shop too) so I'll see if we can grab a spot there, if not yeah let's just chill
H (5:58 pm): Sounds amazing!
H (5:58 pm): I'll message you after dinner hubby
H (5:58 pm):
B (5:59 pm): Sounds good sweetheart ;P
H (7:46 pm): Dinner hasn't even come out yet
I feel like it's a go home and get in my pyjamas and then come over with wine or alcoholic beverage of choice
B (7:49 pm): Damn, how long have you been waiting for?
B (7:50 pm): Agreed. It's cold and wet out anyway. Let me know when you get home and I'll shoot you the address
H (7:50 pm): Like half an hour ahahhaha.
Sounds great!
H (9:09 pm): Do you have Instagram child?
I am about to vet you I am about to leave dinner. Will head home and get comfortable if you don't mind. Hahah
B (9:13 pm): Haha that's fair. I used to but I quit. It was like marijuana, just staring at people's pictures like a bad trip. Happy to chat on the phone beforehand if it makes you more comfortable!
H (9:14 pm): Hahaha that's fine, I trust. I will call before I leave mine x
B (9:15 pm): Sounds good
B (9:42 pm): Address is address
B (9:42 pm): See you soon
H (9:42 pm): Thank you darling ahhaha
H (9:42 pm): How comfortable can i be?
B (9:45 pm): I'll accept a onesie
B (9:47 pm): But seriously I don't mind, surprise me
H (9:57 pm): Hahahaha I was thinking just a jumper and gym tights. I've been in heels and a dress all day
B (10:00 pm): Look I'm not going to say no to gym tights
H (10:12 pm): Okay I'm about to leave mine, so sorry haha. I got caught up!
B (10:13 pm): No stress, see you soon!
B (10:14 pm): Forgot to mention, parking is easy on street which is a 10 second walk away
H (10:17 pm): All good, seasoned parking expert here
B (10:22 pm): I'd dare you to try on my street but you'll be out there all night
H (10:22 pm): Hahahah I mightn't know suburb well, but I'm also not an idiot. That streets practically a one way
H (10:22 pm): Here
Important notes from the text convo – she suggested getting drinks and bringing them to me. I should have let her do this to build compliance but instead I mentioned that I had wine instead. She also wanted to come straight over – in my silly mind I thought that would make it seem like I was no challenge and so I suggested a bar 2 minutes away from mine instead. She later on suggested skipping the bar and coming straight to mine – this time I agreed. Possibly could have been more challenging and told her what to wear? This girl was being submissive and asking if it was still ok to come over, asking what level of comfortable she was allowed to wear, suggesting bringing drinks over. I was not used to this at all and reverted to a “it’s ok, I’m fine with whatever”. Of course I would have loved for her to come over dressed up sexily, but I was afraid of losing her by coming across too demanding.
When she tried screening me by asking for my Instagram I deflected using a shortened variation of what Chase suggested (I botched it a bit and it didn’t really make sense). She accepted it. She called before leaving, I gave her the address then texted it to her.
At Mine
I knew what this girl wanted. I mean, she invited herself over to my house at 10:30 on a weeknight. I dressed up in my nice fur jacket, ripped jeans and low cut v neck – didn’t want to overdress considering she wasn’t but also didn’t want to just wear my PJs.
When she arrived, she was dressed down. Glasses, gym tights and a black and white jumper. She didn’t look like her pics that’s because she wasn’t done up not because she was a catfish – I knew that this girl would be an absolute bombshell once she did herself up. Despite this, she still looked delicious. Mmm.
I made sure to bring her in close for a hug to greet her. I knew I had to keep touching her throughout and that the longer I waited the more awkward it would get. However, at this point I was looking for signs of immediate attraction from her – and didn’t spot any. I gave her a quick tour, she sat down on the bar stools next to my kitchen, I sat down afterwards – we chatted, she said something about being sad today and I said loudly and confidently “do you need a hug” and pulled her in close. She laughed. Talked some more – my intent was to find out more about her – I didn’t want to come across as too easy and wanted to show I had standards more than just her looks – I was struggling to find the line between giving her what she came here for and screening her. This was all happening so fast I wasn’t sure what to do. 10:30pm on a weeknight – she obviously wants something to happen fast but how do I do this while still maintaining my value and coming across as a challenge?
I suggested we grab wine (me leading her following which was good) and she happily agreed. We drank, talked some more, I was brushing her leg with mine and maintaining close contact. The bar seats were a bit uncomfortable and I thought of sitting on the couch but decided not too. Failure to lead on my part. 5 minutes later she suggested going to the couch and I agreed. Her leading, me following.
On the couch, we talked more. Maintained close proximity, she was showing me pictures on her phone. Still, I was nervous and waiting for permission, was too afraid to be open and sexual with her. I should also point out that my housemate was home and it was a weeknight, so this played into it as well. I didn’t want to be too loud to disturb her sleeping and as a result my voice was soft and kind of meek. I didn’t tell her that but in retrospect I should have I did maintain touch, asking her to show me her tattoos and holding her hand in mine to observe them. I thought we should start watching a movie but again didn’t say it – failure to lead. 5 minutes later again, she suggested watching a movie. I agreed. Her leading, me following.
When the movie came on she grabbed a blanket, asked if I wanted the blanket as well and then when I agreed, cuddled up into my arms. Her leading, me following. I clumsily suggested lying down – so we lied down, me spooning her with a massive boner. My plan was to start kissing her neck but her head was at an awkward position where I would have had to reach too far and her hair was in the way. I asked her if she had any earrings and while doing so brushed her hair out of the way to expose her neck and ears. She said they were pierced but she didn’t have any earrings right now and asked why I wanted to know. “Just curious”. Now her neck was exposed again my head was at an awkward ankle where I couldn’t easily start kissing it. So I clumsily asked her if she wanted a massage. She said “Relax, let’s just chill and enjoy the moment”. I agreed. Falling into her frame. We lied there spooning watching this boring ass movie, me with a massive bulge in my pants pressed up against her. Ok, what was the plan now. Escalate, or wait until the movie was done and then invite her to stay the night (this was her plan I suspect) and then escalate in my bed.
After 10 minutes of this her phone rang. She sprang up. It was her housemate. Apparently she had locked herself out of the house. H looked frustrated and sounded annoyed, saying she would come to let her in but that “she owed her breakfast and coffee”. After the call got done she lied down sighing saying she had to go. At this point, I climbed on top of her and said “that’s a real shame”, pulling her in for a makeout. It didn’t feel forced and was actually quite natural. She kissed me back but then said “I can’t, I have to go”. Getting up, she apologized, saying she had dozed off. As she was getting her things, she stood up to face me. Again, I went close to her and made out. Again it didn’t feel forced. She said “I can’t!”. “I know” I said with a smirk and pulled back. My intent wasn’t to overcome this resistance – she had to go get her housemate. The intent of this was to show her some passion that had been missing all night because I knew when she left if there had not been any makeout at least the chances of her wanting to see me again would be even more miniscule than they already probably were.
Outside, she turned to me and said “I’m sorry, lets hang out again. You live like 2 minutes away”. She actually does live close by. She then left. This was 12:00, one and a half hours after she arrived.
The next morning, I was on tinder and noticed she had uploaded some new pics to her profile. I texted her around midday, and she responded in an hour.
I then got busy with work and didn’t respond until 6:30pm. That was Friday night (we are in lockdown now so everyones plans got cancelled). It is Sunday 2pm now and I have not had any response. This is after she was responding within minutes.
Friday, Jul 16, 2021
B (12:35 pm): Hey daarl. Last night was fun
B (12:35 pm): Did you get your make up breakfast and coffee this morning
H (1:37 pm): Hello!!! It was indeed, I am so sorry for falling asleep and then having to dart off hahah.
But I did, oat milk latte and a pecan cinnamon scroll
Hope you're having a good day
B (6:39 pm): Mmm, you're making me want a cinnamon scroll now
B (6:39 pm): Yeah wasn't ideal, on the honeymoon too, tut tut. You'll have to make it up to me. But how
I posted to some other facebook groups with suggestions. Common consensus was yes, she came over for sex and you weren’t dominant/sexual/aggressive enough so when it didn’t happen, despite the housemate wildcard, she backwards rationalized that you were not as sexy as she thought.
While most didn’t have a problem with my last text and said how I handled her when she came over was the problem, one guy pointed out that the last text was sexualizing out of nowhere, that it put pressure on her to lead to sexualization and that’s why she hadn’t responded yet, because she didn’t want to initiate and be seen as a slut. He suggested that instead of that I should have said something like “Got to say that after we kissed, my imagination was going places…” so that she would come back with a no brainer response: “Humm, wonder where”.
Common advice has been to hang tight and reengage with something funny/stupid on Monday (like a Ryan Gosling “It’s Monday” meme). A lot of the guys think there is still a chance she will come around, especially if I am cool about it and since she lives so close (so it’s a lot easier). My only concern is that she is probably texting quite a few other guys right now. Given how keen she was to come straight over to mine, it’s not hard to imagine that she will do the same for some other guy – especially now since with lockdown bars are closed. And if that guy manages to seal the deal – it’s game over.
Overall: This was an interesting experience. Again pretty cringeworthy on my part. And it all comes back to the common theme that you’ve probably noticed in a few of my recent field reports now. I consistently am getting outframed by very attractive women and fall into a dynamic where I am the follower and they are the leader. I am letting this happen because I am afraid of expressing my desires, I am waiting for her permission to move the courtship forward rather than leading. A small part of me has not fully grasped the fact that I am an attractive man and that girls see me as such and so it still feels weird when girls act submissive towards me – because I still don’t feel that way deep inside. And so I don’t act the part. Partly because I am afraid of coming across too demanding. Part of it is also, I am way too chill when a girl resists my advances. I just go “ok” and let her win. I used to tell myself that it was precisely that – that I just don’t care that much. But the reality is, I do care. A lot. I am going “ok” when she resists my advances because I am falling into her frame, because I am afraid of taking a risk and losing her. I am sticking in comfort (cuddling her) because it feels nice and I don’t want to lose that. Of course I would rather be banging her than cuddling. But because I am not taking these risks I am stuck in a limbo that is not only unsatisfying for me but unsatisfying for her too.
But I have to look at the positives as well. I handpicked the hottest girl I could find on tinder out of my list of matches and gamed her over text so well that she invited herself over to my house on a weeknight for sex. That is an ego booster. These bits of evidence keep piling up and I have to remember them every time I start doubting my attractiveness. There are no failures only lessons.
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