FR Tricked into buying a drink - but could she have been attracted?

Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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This happened last Friday at the bar. Cringy on my part, but curious to know what people think about the whole situation. I opened a hot blonde by commenting on her pink dress. It was strong and genuine. We walked and talked, I made sure to touch her - and she suggested getting a drink. I waited at the bar but wasn't being served so she said "they'll serve me, I'm a woman." Went up to the front and then got served almost immediately..

She asked me what I wanted and then told the bartender - when he brought them out I took out my card but she stayed put. I gave her a look and then said with a smile "Ok, I'll get this round, next round is on you". She agreed - her friends then arrived and she suggested going upstairs. I was there sitting opposite her and we locked eyes while she was talking to her friends. It was hard to read the situation - but we chatted back and forth before they said they were getting up to dance. I felt weird about following them again so I said I'd grab her number "in case we got lost" with a smile. She hesitated a bit but agreed. They left, and I found them later on the dancefloor - opened her, danced, but she was in a tight circle with her friends - after a while I came back - said "I'll grab that drink now" with a wink and she nodded but went back to her friends. I disengaged - later I saw her at the bar talking to some other dude - I went in, tapped her on the shoulder and again mentioned the drink - she turned away from the dude and he slunked off. I ordered the drink, and when it came she refused to pay. "I'm not paying - I paid for mine (pointed to hers that she had gotten previously" so you can pay for yours". I was fuming and didn't really know how to handle the situation. I didn't want to come across as butthurt but I told her "that's not cool, you said you were getting the next round". She then said "I don't buy guys drinks, sorry". "I don't usually buy girls drinks", to which she responded sarcastically "oh that was sooo nice of you then"

I should have moved on, but to hell with it, I wanted to see how far I could go with this. Especially since she wasn't ignoring me and seemed to still be complying despite the drink. And she seemed emotionally reactive to me which was good - I know that rudeness is better than apathy and means you can still sleep with her. I then said "Alright, you owe me a dance then". She agreed - we started dancing, it faltered. I went back again to get her away from her friends - she gave her friend a look as if to say - "this guy again" but I decided to try hammering on to see what would happen. She came to dance with me again. To address the look her friend gave her, I tried keeping things lighthearted - saying "I bet you're not used to guys being this persistent are you?" with a smile. To which she responded "actually I am". Tried setting a frame where I was different from other guys by calling her out on the whole drink situation - "so it's pretty easy for you to get guys to buy you drinks isn't it? . "Yeah, I can pretty much get drinks whenever I want". "And they buy you drinks expecting something in return don't they. How lame"

I should note that at this point I still felt like the biggest sucker and that I had lost almost all power in this situation - I was saying the words to reset the frame but already felt like it was a lost cause. Obviously an unproductive frame to have and probably seeped into what happened next.

We continued dancing, me holding her extremely close. Our faces got within centimeters of each other, my brain in overdrive scanning for signs of attraction from her and subtle signs she wanted to kiss me but honestly I didn't see any. I started looking at her lips, and when they were almost touching (I admit I was kind of hesitating here a bit because I hadn't seen any signs), she looked away and gave a little nervous laugh. Her friend then came and told me "She has a boyfriend".

Well fuck.

I could have kept going just to see what was happen but feel I had already pushed it far enough with this set and it was going to go nowhere and I was better off talking to other girls. I went to her and said "so you have a boyfriend". She said "Yeah". I then said "Well right, could have told me that before but I'm going to go now. Also, there's always room for improvement". At this she got a bit wide eyed, I don't know if it was relief or what that I was leaving but she said "Agreed" and nodded wildly. I then left.

Part of me wonders what would have happened if I had just kissed her and not hesitated. Curious about her response to my comment on "there's always room for improvement" at the end - I have a feeling with better game I could have pulled her based on that. Would be curious to hear others thoughts about this, because I'm still conflicted as to whether she saw me as a free meal ticket from the get go or was actually attracted. Or whether she was simply complying with my dance and drink requests because she maybe saw me as a threat and didn't know if I would flip out or not if she refused so played it safe. Obviously hard to tell by just reading this but I've tried to remember as many details as possible.
 
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PalmaSailor

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Hey look you live and learn.



Getting uptight about one drink is never going to get you laid. The thing to do really is just get your own drink and approach girls that already have one. Or just buy your own at the bar and let her buy hers.



It’ll weed out the ones with genuine interest. If they buy their own and stick around you know they’re interested in you. Most young women go out with hardly any cash and grift drinks off men all night. A couple of years back I was in a bar talking to a woman and some guy busted into the set and tried to AMOG me, and he bought her a drink. I started talking to some other girl and this first girl came back to me still holding onto his drink, after a bit of conversation I walked her back to my place and banged her. She was still drinking the drink he bought her on the walk home.



So it’s not about the drink.



Once you’d ended up in the chair for the first round the only winning move was really to ignore the fact you got a drink as no big deal and moved on with the seduction.



That whole thing should have been ancillary, and there should have been some DHV on your part and you should have been building attraction.



The whole “I bought you a drink and you now owe me one” thing is never gonna get you laid.



Write it off to experience and read Mystery Method to get an understanding of how the interactions work in more detail.
 

PalmaSailor

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One of the things that helped me transition my thinking about how to interact with women was to ask yourself “would I do this for a man?”

would you have queued and bought a drink for some random bloke on the basis he gets the next one?

not unless you were gay, and for the same reasons.

women know you do all this shit for them fundamentally bc you want to get into their knickers.

if they had nothing you wanted you wouldn’t do it. They know it.

act like they’ve nothing you want whilst displaying higher value and they’re powerless.

if they want you they’ve only really got one thing you want
 

Will_V

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Honestly you should have focused on banging her and stopped trying to get a drink back.

This thing of equality and not buying girls drinks is getting taken too far. The goal is to not be investing too much. It's not the drink that determines this but what it means to you. If the drink means a lot to you, then you buying it means something too. The moment she felt like you needed to 'get your money's worth' from the earlier drink, her attraction hit the floor. I'm surprised she danced with you several times, she was still giving you a chance.

Besides, you were worried about the drink, but not about wasting your time with her inside a bad frame, what does that tell her about you?

For me, everything is a tool for framing. I don't care who pays what, I care about how she views me. As soon as I saw the drink becoming a tool for her to dominate the interaction, I would have dismissed it entirely, teased her a bit maybe, and created a new, better frame from something else. She would see how I controlled things and took control away from her, and get more attracted.

As a man, you don't control a woman's logic, you dominate her emotions. And you do that by relentlessly dominating the narrative of who you are and what she is to you.
 

Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Eye opening. I definitely have gotten way too militant about the "I don't buy girls drinks" and didn't even realize it. Even though I never used to even in the past, it's like the pendulum swung in the other direction and I didn't even realize how hung up I was getting on it. Definitely coming from the wrong place - "I can't let her think I'm like one of those simps" which is entirely the wrong attitude to have.

There is so much gold in here in these responses, I'm going to need some time to read through and internalize it all. Just pinning the main parts that stood out to me for now.

ask yourself “would I do this for a man?”

act like they’ve nothing you want whilst displaying higher value and they’re powerless.

if they want you they’ve only really got one thing you want

As a man, you don't control a woman's logic, you dominate her emotions. And you do that by relentlessly dominating the narrative of who you are and what she is to you.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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Do not use that horrible come back ever again, the masculine role is to buy the drink, if you don't want to buy a drink don't get into buying a drink situation. I buy drink if I ever have to after hook point and heavy investment post make out of o have to... I barely ever buy drinks..
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
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sorry to hear about dis beam. were ya sober?

this is how i understand the initial events unfolded:

she suggested drinks -> you go to buy drinks for you n her -> you cant get the bartenders attention alone -> she comes over -> she gets bartenders attention -> you expect her to help pay

was her understanding of the frame from the start that you would be buying the drinks? i assume you shared that frame initially, as you went up to the bar first...

is that true?

if so then when she came to help you, you turned around and pressured her into helping pay...when it wasnt even really agreed upon in the first place. and then you continued to pressure her throughout the night. which drips uncalibration

btw heres a bacchus reframe that you could sneak in upon a drink request from a girl...to lead into productive frames and dynamics right from the very start:

if the party were at my place there would be more than enough for everyone
 

Velasco

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this is how i understand the initial events unfolded:

she suggested drinks -> you go to buy drinks for you n her -> you cant get the bartenders attention alone -> she comes over -> she gets bartenders attention -> you expect her to help pay
no. he thought with her, "wanna get a drink?" she was gonna pay for hers and he was gonna pay for his. when she asked him what he wanted. he should've gone, "nah I'll get my own drink, thanks." framing it as if she was offering to buy drinks for both of them. making it awkward for her to ask him to pay for hers (same trick she did to him by making it awkward).
 

Velasco

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she suggested getting a drink.
she suggested. not him. had he suggested, "lets get a drink"). he'd have no problem paying for both if he went up to the bartender and said, "rum and coke" turned to her and went, "what do you want?" that's him expecting to pay for both. He wouldn't suggest drinks -> what do you want?" -> and then turn and look at her expecting her to pay for both drinks.

Instead she suggested, so his thinking is that she's gonna pay for hers and he'll pay for his (didn't enter his mind as a possibility that she'd pay for both drinks). when she did the "what do you want?" is where he fucked up. making everything awkward. her brain was thinking the whole time she was gonna get him to pay for both drinks (her trick with suggesting drinks). and his mind was thinking she would pay for hers and he'd pay for his because she was the one who suggested.
 

fog

Cro-Magnon Man
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Instead she suggested, so his thinking is that she's gonna pay for hers and he'll pay for his (didn't enter his mind as a possibility that she'd pay for both drinks). when she did the "what do you want?" is where he fucked up. making everything awkward. her brain was thinking the whole time she was gonna get him to pay for both drinks (her trick with suggesting drinks). and his mind was thinking she would pay for hers and he'd pay for his because she was the one who suggested.
it was assumed. i see
 

Velasco

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it was assumed. i see
Assumed that she would abide by the unwritten social rule, whereby the one who initiates, is expected to pay his or her share (especially true with strangers where there is no established rapport yet). correct.
 

Fuck This

Cro-Magnon Man
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What really mattered here was that she WAS NOT attracted. Don't sweat it.

FWIW i've had good luck tipping bartenders well on the first drink and starting a tab. They remember you for subsequent drinks.
 

Velasco

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I disagree. Besides getting swindled into paying for her drink He fucked up again here
her friends then arrived and she suggested going upstairs. I was there sitting opposite her and we locked eyes while she was talking to her friends. It was hard to read the situation - but we chatted back and forth before they said they were getting up to dance. I felt weird about following them again so I said I'd grab her number "in case we got lost" with a smile. She hesitated a bit but agreed. They left, and I found them later on the dancefloor - opened her, danced, but she was in a tight circle with her friends - after a while I came back - said "I'll grab that drink now" with a wink and she nodded but went back to her friends
I assume he can also talked with her friends when he went upstairs with them. And solidified his status as "ok to fuck" in their eyes. Their perception at this point is their friend (beam's girl) likes this guy because she invited him to join them upstairs VS "it was nice to meet you :) " as she ditched him when they arrived. He felt weird about following them cuz that's "needy" according to some guys VS feeling like the prize because they want him to come with him. Or he could have excused himself with, "alright I'm gonna go see what my friends up to" and gone approach other sets. Return later if he didn't find better sets. Then instead of opening her on the dance floor about the drink like a chode (sorry @Beam) he'd pull her hair back or something to spike her emotions then when she turned around, felt relieved it was him (field tested). Then resume flirting.
 
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PalmaSailor

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You have to remember they’re expert at this. It’s what they do.

I own an Airbnb that sleeps 6 in a party town. I regularly get groups of 6 girls.

It didn’t hit me until I was welcoming the group and one said they needed an atm to get cash for the night out. So I was walking them to town to show them the sights / bars etc.. (and I was going to pivot off them) and we got to an atm and they each got £10 out.

so I said “that all you gonna need for a whole night?” and one just said “yeah, we’ll get drinks bought for us all night, this is just in case”.

so yeah. Basically you’re the mark unless you watch what you’re doing.

the approach should be in your frame and control and not relate to the drink.
 

Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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she suggested. not him. had he suggested, "lets get a drink"). he'd have no problem paying for both if he went up to the bartender and said, "rum and coke" turned to her and went, "what do you want?" that's him expecting to pay for both. He wouldn't suggest drinks -> what do you want?" -> and then turn and look at her expecting her to pay for both drinks.

Instead she suggested, so his thinking is that she's gonna pay for hers and he'll pay for his (didn't enter his mind as a possibility that she'd pay for both drinks). when she did the "what do you want?" is where he fucked up. making everything awkward. her brain was thinking the whole time she was gonna get him to pay for both drinks (her trick with suggesting drinks). and his mind was thinking she would pay for hers and he'd pay for his because she was the one who suggested.
@Velasco, right on the money. Also I'm not offended, I did act like a chode, lol

Glad I posted this, lots of good insights...
 

Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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he'd pull her hair back or something to spike her emotions then when she turned around, felt relieved it was him (field tested). Then resume flirting.

How tf can you do something like that without getting slapped though even if we'd previously established rapport? I know you field tested it but damn I would struggle to get the confidence to pull that off.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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How tf can you do something like that without getting slapped though even if we'd previously established rapport? I know you field tested it but damn I would struggle to get the confidence to pull that off.
yeah i would not do that, the way i get women like this is by interacting with other people, specially women in their vicinity, and then casually re-open or get open...
 

Lobo

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@Beam do you think she could tell you were hesitating out of not feeling allowed to kiss her or do you think she thought you were doing it on purpose(building tension).

I think the interesting thing about the set was that her friend walked over to you to tell you she has a boyfriend, and your girl never said it herself. This likely happened because of the look she gave her friend when you approached her again, and the visible resistance you got when getting close too the lips, so her friend cockblocked because she thought your girl needed a save.

Regardless I take these boyfriend objections with a grain of salt... every girl worth anything has some chode in her life, or a social circle guy she's been trying to get with... to the point where the relationship thing is a blurred line which can practically mean anything.

The close physical contact you had with her and even her letting you have her face close to her show the compliance you have on her, but I think it was your hesitance and the way that you responded to the boyfriend thing(which could have been a shit test) which caused you to lose the set.

Mainly the hesitance if she saw it as hesitance because it makes her question the interaction as well.
 
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fearlessuk

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I think you did well. I wouldn't worry about the drink too much. I liked the way you pushed it and said: hey it's your round, ok you own me a dance then :) That was very good, You pushed the drink topic too much because you were butt hurt lol, and stayed on a butt hurt topic which got you no where. Who care's, we all been there lol

Yes there was attraction. Use you gut feeling, if you feel you can kiss her, then kiss her. Trust you gut. You pulled her close to you and she didn't back away. That is an ioi. She kind of pass the complance test. The way to measure ioi's is based on your gut feeling. Counting ioi's is gay.

Next time do an other complaince test. Go like this. Your hands in the air, like a high 5 gesture. She copies you and you interlock your fingers, into her's. If her fingers interlock with you, she is ready to be kissed. If her fingers stay straight, she is not ready to be kissed.

Next time don't mention how persistence you are. She knows already, when you said, you own me a dance. Less is more.

Honestly if you are new to sarging or a hardcase, I wouldn't buy any drinks. Once you get advanced, like you know girls will react well do you, then maybe. Before buying any drink, there must be some level of compliance. Allow you to pull her in, allow you to kino her back, allow you do hold her hands. She is staring into your eyes deeply. Any thing that tell you, there is some level of ioi's to the interaction.

Continue with field reports and break down your game. Watch some kino youtube video's. I hope these vids are still around lol. Once you have your conversation skill down, it doesn't have to be that good, like a 10 or 15 minute convo, next focus will be kino. If you don't kino, you be wasting time

How is sarging? I want to start again but scared of the ronnie rona reactions. Are women still socialable or are they scared. I havn't socialized for ages.
 
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