FU  Sexy blonde from tinder invites herself over to my house on a weeknight

Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
773
So this was a new experience. Even though it was from tinder it again highlights a sticking point that I have run into quite a lot over the last two months in particular. The picture is becoming a lot clearer regarding where my new weak spots are. It wasn't the worst fail in the world but I made it a FU because I went against my intuition at many points.

Background:

Match to Meet


I had been ignoring online for a few weeks but on Wednesday night I decided to give it another go. I have tinder gold so I can see who has liked me. out of the 90 or so that were there I saw a beautiful blonde who was just my type who I’ll call H from now on. Tall, fashionable, she honestly looked like a catwalk model in her pictures and I could tell she wasn't a catfish. I matched with her and opened with "Wow. You look like like my future ex wife", which is a line I got from a guy I know. She responded almost immediately which caught me by surprise. We message back and forth in the roleplay, talking about who was going to get the dogs, where we were going to go on our honeymoon etc etc and I then feigned going to the travel agent and telling her that they needed an emergency contact number to get her number. She gave it to me and I told her I'd let her know what the travel agent came back with. All up this happened in an hour. I went to bed.

The next day (Thursday) my city announced it was going into lockdown again due to a spike in cases. Lame. I text H after work saying that our trip couldn't go ahead and we couldn't drink our sorrows away in the bar anymore. In the next few hours she pretty much invited herself straight over to my house that night (see text convo). This blew my mind. Could not believe this was actually happening. Again further evidence that there is still a bit disconnect between how I see myself vs how others see me.

Thursday, Jul 15, 2021

B (5:17 pm): Hey H! It's B from tinder :)

B (5:17 pm): The agent came back to me - I've got some good news and I've got some bad news

H (5:23 pm): Well if it isn't my future husband

H (5:23 pm):

H (5:23 pm): Hit me with me

B (5:45 pm): The bad news - Cancun and NZ are out and we can't drink away our sorrows in a bar now

H (5:45 pm): Until 12pm....

H (5:45 pm): Hahahaha

B (5:46 pm): 12am you mean, true

B (5:47 pm): The good news - We both live in [suburb] so he gave me a list of parks and bottle shops to check out instead, lol

H (5:48 pm): I'm getting dinner with a couple friends after work. But maybe after a quick drink somewhere?
Do you live alone or?

B (5:50 pm): I have housemates but they're chill. Could do a drink a bit later on actually - what time will you get done?

H (5:51 pm): I don't think it'll be late. Otherwise I can get some drinks and bring them to you ‍♀️ or I mean, there's a whole 4 more nights of lockdown, so can facilitate whenever I'm not at work ahha

B (5:57 pm): How sweet ;P The [bar] is right around the corner from mine (it has a bottle shop too) so I'll see if we can grab a spot there, if not yeah let's just chill

H (5:58 pm): Sounds amazing!

H (5:58 pm): I'll message you after dinner hubby

H (5:58 pm):

B (5:59 pm): Sounds good sweetheart ;P

H (7:46 pm): Dinner hasn't even come out yet

I feel like it's a go home and get in my pyjamas and then come over with wine or alcoholic beverage of choice

B (7:49 pm): Damn, how long have you been waiting for?

B (7:50 pm): Agreed. It's cold and wet out anyway. Let me know when you get home and I'll shoot you the address

H (7:50 pm): Like half an hour ahahhaha.
Sounds great!

H (9:09 pm): Do you have Instagram child?
I am about to vet you I am about to leave dinner. Will head home and get comfortable if you don't mind. Hahah

B (9:13 pm): Haha that's fair. I used to but I quit. It was like marijuana, just staring at people's pictures like a bad trip. Happy to chat on the phone beforehand if it makes you more comfortable!

H (9:14 pm): Hahaha that's fine, I trust. I will call before I leave mine x

B (9:15 pm): Sounds good

B (9:42 pm): Address is address

B (9:42 pm): See you soon :)

H (9:42 pm): Thank you darling ahhaha

H (9:42 pm): How comfortable can i be?

B (9:45 pm): I'll accept a onesie

B (9:47 pm): But seriously I don't mind, surprise me ;)

H (9:57 pm): Hahahaha I was thinking just a jumper and gym tights. I've been in heels and a dress all day

B (10:00 pm): Look I'm not going to say no to gym tights

H (10:12 pm): Okay I'm about to leave mine, so sorry haha. I got caught up!

B (10:13 pm): No stress, see you soon!

B (10:14 pm): Forgot to mention, parking is easy on street which is a 10 second walk away

H (10:17 pm): All good, seasoned parking expert here

B (10:22 pm): I'd dare you to try on my street but you'll be out there all night :p

H (10:22 pm): Hahahah I mightn't know suburb well, but I'm also not an idiot. That streets practically a one way

H (10:22 pm): Here

Important notes from the text convo – she suggested getting drinks and bringing them to me. I should have let her do this to build compliance but instead I mentioned that I had wine instead. She also wanted to come straight over – in my silly mind I thought that would make it seem like I was no challenge and so I suggested a bar 2 minutes away from mine instead. She later on suggested skipping the bar and coming straight to mine – this time I agreed. Possibly could have been more challenging and told her what to wear? This girl was being submissive and asking if it was still ok to come over, asking what level of comfortable she was allowed to wear, suggesting bringing drinks over. I was not used to this at all and reverted to a “it’s ok, I’m fine with whatever”. Of course I would have loved for her to come over dressed up sexily, but I was afraid of losing her by coming across too demanding.

When she tried screening me by asking for my Instagram I deflected using a shortened variation of what Chase suggested (I botched it a bit and it didn’t really make sense). She accepted it. She called before leaving, I gave her the address then texted it to her.

At Mine

I knew what this girl wanted. I mean, she invited herself over to my house at 10:30 on a weeknight. I dressed up in my nice fur jacket, ripped jeans and low cut v neck – didn’t want to overdress considering she wasn’t but also didn’t want to just wear my PJs.

When she arrived, she was dressed down. Glasses, gym tights and a black and white jumper. She didn’t look like her pics that’s because she wasn’t done up not because she was a catfish – I knew that this girl would be an absolute bombshell once she did herself up. Despite this, she still looked delicious. Mmm.

I made sure to bring her in close for a hug to greet her. I knew I had to keep touching her throughout and that the longer I waited the more awkward it would get. However, at this point I was looking for signs of immediate attraction from her – and didn’t spot any. I gave her a quick tour, she sat down on the bar stools next to my kitchen, I sat down afterwards – we chatted, she said something about being sad today and I said loudly and confidently “do you need a hug” and pulled her in close. She laughed. Talked some more – my intent was to find out more about her – I didn’t want to come across as too easy and wanted to show I had standards more than just her looks – I was struggling to find the line between giving her what she came here for and screening her. This was all happening so fast I wasn’t sure what to do. 10:30pm on a weeknight – she obviously wants something to happen fast but how do I do this while still maintaining my value and coming across as a challenge?

I suggested we grab wine (me leading her following which was good) and she happily agreed. We drank, talked some more, I was brushing her leg with mine and maintaining close contact. The bar seats were a bit uncomfortable and I thought of sitting on the couch but decided not too. Failure to lead on my part. 5 minutes later she suggested going to the couch and I agreed. Her leading, me following.

On the couch, we talked more. Maintained close proximity, she was showing me pictures on her phone. Still, I was nervous and waiting for permission, was too afraid to be open and sexual with her. I should also point out that my housemate was home and it was a weeknight, so this played into it as well. I didn’t want to be too loud to disturb her sleeping and as a result my voice was soft and kind of meek. I didn’t tell her that but in retrospect I should have I did maintain touch, asking her to show me her tattoos and holding her hand in mine to observe them. I thought we should start watching a movie but again didn’t say it – failure to lead. 5 minutes later again, she suggested watching a movie. I agreed. Her leading, me following.

When the movie came on she grabbed a blanket, asked if I wanted the blanket as well and then when I agreed, cuddled up into my arms. Her leading, me following. I clumsily suggested lying down – so we lied down, me spooning her with a massive boner. My plan was to start kissing her neck but her head was at an awkward position where I would have had to reach too far and her hair was in the way. I asked her if she had any earrings and while doing so brushed her hair out of the way to expose her neck and ears. She said they were pierced but she didn’t have any earrings right now and asked why I wanted to know. “Just curious”. Now her neck was exposed again my head was at an awkward ankle where I couldn’t easily start kissing it. So I clumsily asked her if she wanted a massage. She said “Relax, let’s just chill and enjoy the moment”. I agreed. Falling into her frame. We lied there spooning watching this boring ass movie, me with a massive bulge in my pants pressed up against her. Ok, what was the plan now. Escalate, or wait until the movie was done and then invite her to stay the night (this was her plan I suspect) and then escalate in my bed.

After 10 minutes of this her phone rang. She sprang up. It was her housemate. Apparently she had locked herself out of the house. H looked frustrated and sounded annoyed, saying she would come to let her in but that “she owed her breakfast and coffee”. After the call got done she lied down sighing saying she had to go. At this point, I climbed on top of her and said “that’s a real shame”, pulling her in for a makeout. It didn’t feel forced and was actually quite natural. She kissed me back but then said “I can’t, I have to go”. Getting up, she apologized, saying she had dozed off. As she was getting her things, she stood up to face me. Again, I went close to her and made out. Again it didn’t feel forced. She said “I can’t!”. “I know” I said with a smirk and pulled back. My intent wasn’t to overcome this resistance – she had to go get her housemate. The intent of this was to show her some passion that had been missing all night because I knew when she left if there had not been any makeout at least the chances of her wanting to see me again would be even more miniscule than they already probably were.

Outside, she turned to me and said “I’m sorry, lets hang out again. You live like 2 minutes away”. She actually does live close by. She then left. This was 12:00, one and a half hours after she arrived.

The next morning, I was on tinder and noticed she had uploaded some new pics to her profile. I texted her around midday, and she responded in an hour.

I then got busy with work and didn’t respond until 6:30pm. That was Friday night (we are in lockdown now so everyones plans got cancelled). It is Sunday 2pm now and I have not had any response. This is after she was responding within minutes.

Friday, Jul 16, 2021

B (12:35 pm): Hey daarl. Last night was fun

B (12:35 pm): Did you get your make up breakfast and coffee this morning

H (1:37 pm): Hello!!! It was indeed, I am so sorry for falling asleep and then having to dart off hahah.
But I did, oat milk latte and a pecan cinnamon scroll

Hope you're having a good day ☺️

B (6:39 pm): Mmm, you're making me want a cinnamon scroll now

B (6:39 pm): Yeah wasn't ideal, on the honeymoon too, tut tut. You'll have to make it up to me. But how

I posted to some other facebook groups with suggestions. Common consensus was yes, she came over for sex and you weren’t dominant/sexual/aggressive enough so when it didn’t happen, despite the housemate wildcard, she backwards rationalized that you were not as sexy as she thought.

While most didn’t have a problem with my last text and said how I handled her when she came over was the problem, one guy pointed out that the last text was sexualizing out of nowhere, that it put pressure on her to lead to sexualization and that’s why she hadn’t responded yet, because she didn’t want to initiate and be seen as a slut. He suggested that instead of that I should have said something like “Got to say that after we kissed, my imagination was going places…” so that she would come back with a no brainer response: “Humm, wonder where”.

Common advice has been to hang tight and reengage with something funny/stupid on Monday (like a Ryan Gosling “It’s Monday” meme). A lot of the guys think there is still a chance she will come around, especially if I am cool about it and since she lives so close (so it’s a lot easier). My only concern is that she is probably texting quite a few other guys right now. Given how keen she was to come straight over to mine, it’s not hard to imagine that she will do the same for some other guy – especially now since with lockdown bars are closed. And if that guy manages to seal the deal – it’s game over.

Overall: This was an interesting experience. Again pretty cringeworthy on my part. And it all comes back to the common theme that you’ve probably noticed in a few of my recent field reports now. I consistently am getting outframed by very attractive women and fall into a dynamic where I am the follower and they are the leader. I am letting this happen because I am afraid of expressing my desires, I am waiting for her permission to move the courtship forward rather than leading. A small part of me has not fully grasped the fact that I am an attractive man and that girls see me as such and so it still feels weird when girls act submissive towards me – because I still don’t feel that way deep inside. And so I don’t act the part. Partly because I am afraid of coming across too demanding. Part of it is also, I am way too chill when a girl resists my advances. I just go “ok” and let her win. I used to tell myself that it was precisely that – that I just don’t care that much. But the reality is, I do care. A lot. I am going “ok” when she resists my advances because I am falling into her frame, because I am afraid of taking a risk and losing her. I am sticking in comfort (cuddling her) because it feels nice and I don’t want to lose that. Of course I would rather be banging her than cuddling. But because I am not taking these risks I am stuck in a limbo that is not only unsatisfying for me but unsatisfying for her too.

But I have to look at the positives as well. I handpicked the hottest girl I could find on tinder out of my list of matches and gamed her over text so well that she invited herself over to my house on a weeknight for sex. That is an ego booster. These bits of evidence keep piling up and I have to remember them every time I start doubting my attractiveness. There are no failures only lessons.
 
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Skills

Tribal Elder
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Joined
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Messages
4,212
Location
South Florida
dude don't ask women "do you want a massage" = asking for permission instead of leading, just give the massage, your texting was very good but that last text was bad, subcommunication of what are you going to do for me sexually, the dude of facebook was right in his diagnosis......
 

Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
773
dude don't ask women "do you want a massage" = asking for permission instead of leading, just give the massage, your texting was very good but that last text was bad, subcommunication of what are you going to do for me sexually, the dude of facebook was right in his diagnosis......
Hey Skills yeah I knew that was a FU - I slip into these behaviors on autopilot, I find leading sexually still so against my natural disposition and I hold myself back. And yeah, after I didn't get a response very quickly I had a feeling it gave off the wrong idea despite some others saying the text wasn't the problem - my plan was if she came back with something to accuse her of her mind being in the gutter and that I just wanted a cinnamon scroll. Didn't work out...

How would you suggest I reengage? It's been 2 days now since I sent that last text.
 

Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
773
Just for my own benefit - looks like I fell into the same mistake of "her owing me something after a slight" that I did in this FR from last month. But it didn't come from the same place. In that case I genuinely was pissed. In this case, I didn't mind at all (she had to help her housemate) and it was coming from a playful place. But over text she got the wrong idea.

Good lesson. Just avoid the whole "you owe me" entirely over text. In person, only use it if you are clearly joking and she knows it.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
4,212
Location
South Florida
Hey Skills yeah I knew that was a FU - I slip into these behaviors on autopilot, I find leading sexually still so against my natural disposition and I hold myself back. And yeah, after I didn't get a response very quickly I had a feeling it gave off the wrong idea despite some others saying the text wasn't the problem - my plan was if she came back with something to accuse her of her mind being in the gutter and that I just wanted a cinnamon scroll. Didn't work out...

How would you suggest I reengage? It's been 2 days now since I sent that last text.
^excuses fix that...

first, at the end of the date, you should have told her to "text me when you get home"

re-engage text aka ping (it may be a long shot):

- the eyes emoji (super low investment level)
-good morning with sun emoji (medium investment level)
- hey (her name) it seems like we lost momentum(high investment credit popcorn)
 

Lobo

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Feb 24, 2020
Messages
198
While being a learning experience, @Beam, I imagine this must also be a frustrating one... a girl who's just your type, maneuvering past your attempts to play hard to get, and then an hour and a half passes by in which you find yourself wanting to escalate on this girl badly, but not knowing how to do so without risking losing the girl.

From what I've come to understand, and experience, is that when you emotionally stimulate or sexually arouse a girl, you must have a level of social frame that matches the level of stimulation. If not, the girl can't rationalize why you're making her feel these things. Jack up the stimulation without social frame, and suddenly FSC and ASD kicks in, and you get this gruesome resistance from the girl.

Looking at your post however, you start off with good social frame. The girl first selected you from tinder, invited herself over, something girls don't generally do with most guys as they aren't taking such a big step to make the sex happen. She's chasing after you. Even wanted to bring you alcohol. Let her invest(you noted this)

You lost social frame from not escalating/leading the interaction(which I think you already noted). Also from your request to massage her.... which I feel has implicit sexual connotations where FSC can trigger as she might think you're asking if you can have sex.

I believe your main problem's came from her escalating herself due to lack of escalation on your part. (let's sit on the couch, let's watch this movie, lets cuddle) If you want to learn to lead the interaction just do what she did. She wanted your dick and was trying to get there.

I feel from my experience, I've been able to physically escalate and arouse the girls I'm with well, I consider it my strong suit and it's something I'm always trying to improve on as I want to be the sexiest man alive.

Once isolated with the girl, my only goal is to get her comfortable and primed for me. I've noticed, there's two way's I do this.
1) Escalate through touch.
My touch typically escalates with my proximity to the girl, and I think this happens because 1) I'm closer and can do more intimate touching 2) Being close allows my eye contact and sexual demeanor to pierce through the girl, strengthening the vibe and the bubble(this article branches into a lot of sexual arousal articles) as by being so close and sexual in my vibe to her, but not actually fucking her yet, I create sexual tension(through mixed signals. "Is he going to fuck me or not" is what her mind is thinking) and a liminal space between us that keeps her intrigued, and more important to your scenario, compliant as this intrigue makes her more invested. The bubble also makes the girl more focused on you and what you're doing to her/making her feel, as it is a bubble that blocks off her perception of anything else in her environment, which amplifies the power of your touch.

When I'm actually touching the girl, I follow a pretty simple escalation. Shoulder touches when I'm starting out to accentuate a point, light shoves when teasing, Eventually I move closer to the girl, and I start touching her forearm, wrists, upper chest area. Usually when I introduce these types of touch, I'm either deeply engaging her in conversation, so she's not super focused on the touching but is instead just feeling it(this dodges FSC which I think is one of your concerns with escalating) OR I'm demonstrating an example/doing a role play that involves me touching these more erotically charged areas. Eventually this touch becomes the new ground floor and I escalate up from there. Caressing her belly and depending on her level of comfort, I might even start to tease her to arouse and tempt(link to Lofty's post on Samurajack's journal. He explains a really good escalation process, which... now that I see it again, is pretty much what I'm doing... and it makes these girls extremely wet) around area's that she'd want me to stimulate. Breasts and pussy really. The way I tease these spots in by touching the upper chest area and inching closer and closer to the breasts, or while i'm caressing her belly, I'll slide down south but not go all the way(but noticeably close to where the thought crosses her mind)

Once I'm doing those kinds of touches, they are usually aroused(not very aroused, but getting wet) and here is when I start kissing.
You mentioned you wanted to kiss her neck... but I didn't see any escalation prior to this. I feel like if you were to actually kiss her neck without escalating to there, you'd be met with FSC as she's not that aroused.

I then start to kiss her lips. My last 3 escalations(did not get big LMR that I couldn't swat down easily for any of these) I've always kept the girl verbally stimulated before going in for the kiss. And the things that I usually say consist of strengthening the vibe, pacing her reality with me, or telling her something about being able to unleash all of her desires, all of this in a very seductive voice with pauses for added tension.

Once were kissing some of the sexual tension is lost, but that doesen't matter as she's usually aroused enough for me to do more explicit touches which we all know of.

2) Verbally
Sex talk is a big one here. But also, having a seductive voice at a good cadence( using pauses to build tension) can make practically anything you say to the girl sound arousing. The main point of my verbals when I'm escalating is either to create good frames for sex to happen. Anti judgement, sexual liberty frames, spontaneous adventure frames, and to keep her rational mind occupied as I touch her. No rational mind= no FSC(unless you break the bubble, which I've experienced here) Sometimes I'm only doing of these objectives at a time, such as the fluff talk I mention in that last link, but being able to do both seems to be very efficient which I was able to do here. Doesn't need to be hypnotic to work, you just need to be getting in her head with what you say. The way I've escalated my verbals is by using juicier and juicier sexual descriptions. And I never really stop talking. You can fuck her physically but you can also fuck her mind.

Doing these two well simultaneously, I've been confident in my ability to close a girl when I've isolated her, and get her extremely aroused to the point of no return. By the time I'm entering the girl they are drenched and want it badly, which is a personal preference of mine.

Also, it seems you are a fundamentally attractive guy, but just don't see yourself that way, as if your perception of yourself is still lagging behind?
Like when a fat girl loses weight and is all of sudden hot, but doesn't know how to act hot?

I think one thing that could help you is just testing what you can get away with. Where are the boundaries of your influence?


Also I noticed you mentioned you had some frame control issues... well say less. Already though, a big part of your frame's strength is how much YOU believe in it.

Link to Kvothe's journal on frame control(filled with more links)
My thoughts on it(more links as well)
 

Will_V

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
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My opinion is that the problem here is that you didn't match her level of sexual intent. If you had pulled her in for a kiss (manhandle kiss even) very early on (like when you suggested a hug) I think she would have felt a lot more comfortable and ready to release.

If she's this invested and submissive, she's building a lot of energy inside on the way over, and you can't let it die down. When a woman is hot and ready you've got to match it or she'll think you're not the one to give her what she needs.
 

topcat

Modern Human
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Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
699
I’m in agreeance with @Will_V here. The problem is, you didn’t escalate quickly enough.

Girls coming straight over to mine from tinder, or me theirs is something i’ve done regularly. My close rate in this situation is 100%.

When this happens you escalate near immediately. Once she’s in the house give her 5 mins to get comfortable. Close the distance between the two of you over the next 5 (make drinks, sit close to eachother on the couch whatever).

Then kiss her ASAP. Gauge her response to it immediately after. THIS determines whether you build rapport more, back off or escalate further.

Keep your eye on the pussy and escalate until she either fucks or leaves (being mindful of how she’s feeling and behaving of course).

tl;dr if she comes straight to yours, she hasn’t come to watch tv or eat snacks. Escalate near immediately.
 
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topcat

Modern Human
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Dec 20, 2012
Messages
699
Also, there’s an article laying about by Chase where he states that when a girl is at your place you must kiss her within 10 mins. He says more experienced guys can be lenient on this rule.

I’ve always followed this and it has worked a charm.

You should to.
 

Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
773
While being a learning experience, @Beam, I imagine this must also be a frustrating one... a girl who's just your type, maneuvering past your attempts to play hard to get, and then an hour and a half passes by in which you find yourself wanting to escalate on this girl badly, but not knowing how to do so without risking losing the girl.

Definitely frustrating. Getting these tastes of success, getting so close and then not being able to execute and being left wondering how different things would be if I had managed to, time and time again is emotionally taxing bro.

From what I've come to understand, and experience, is that when you emotionally stimulate or sexually arouse a girl, you must have a level of social frame that matches the level of stimulation. If not, the girl can't rationalize why you're making her feel these things. Jack up the stimulation without social frame, and suddenly FSC and ASD kicks in, and you get this gruesome resistance from the girl.

Looking at your post however, you start off with good social frame. The girl first selected you from tinder, invited herself over, something girls don't generally do with most guys as they aren't taking such a big step to make the sex happen. She's chasing after you. Even wanted to bring you alcohol. Let her invest(you noted this)

You lost social frame from not escalating/leading the interaction(which I think you already noted). Also from your request to massage her.... which I feel has implicit sexual connotations where FSC can trigger as she might think you're asking if you can have sex.

I believe your main problem's came from her escalating herself due to lack of escalation on your part. (let's sit on the couch, let's watch this movie, lets cuddle) If you want to learn to lead the interaction just do what she did. She wanted your dick and was trying to get there.

Agree. I don't know why I was so hesitant to do something so simple but I can make some guesses. I feel like I was looking for more signs of interest from her from the get go given why she came over but didn't get them. I got in my head a little bit - "does she find me as attractive in person as she did in the pictures" and maybe that mirrored back onto her. If she was giving me a big sexy smile I would have had no problems saying "lets go to the couch". I generally lead and am dominant when the girl makes it obvious she likes and is comfortable with me (letting me touch her, hold her, joke with her) which generally happens over a couple of hours on a date. When I am unsure if she will reciprocate or not I err on the side of caution and don't make a move which I realize now is the incorrect move. It's happened a couple times now where I have erred on the side of caution and only briefly touched her, then gone to escalate on the couch sexually which has met with resistance.

This situation, she came over at 10:30pm straight to my house. What I am pretty comfortable with now is meeting a girl at a bar, talking and drinking with her for a few hours, bouncing to another venue, then inviting her home. In this case, we were meeting for the first time, perhaps I stayed at the bar stools because it felt familiar, it felt like the stage where I get to know her a bit before moving things forward. I was not fully comfortable moving faster and stayed in my comfort zone. That dominant sexual aggressiveness I needed from the get go and I was not used to that - on bar dates there has been more leeway to gradually build it up.

I feel from my experience, I've been able to physically escalate and arouse the girls I'm with well, I consider it my strong suit and it's something I'm always trying to improve on as I want to be the sexiest man alive.

Once isolated with the girl, my only goal is to get her comfortable and primed for me. I've noticed, there's two way's I do this.
1) Escalate through touch.
My touch typically escalates with my proximity to the girl, and I think this happens because 1) I'm closer and can do more intimate touching 2) Being close allows my eye contact and sexual demeanor to pierce through the girl, strengthening the vibe and the bubble(this article branches into a lot of sexual arousal articles) as by being so close and sexual in my vibe to her, but not actually fucking her yet, I create sexual tension(through mixed signals. "Is he going to fuck me or not" is what her mind is thinking) and a liminal space between us that keeps her intrigued, and more important to your scenario, compliant as this intrigue makes her more invested. The bubble also makes the girl more focused on you and what you're doing to her/making her feel, as it is a bubble that blocks off her perception of anything else in her environment, which amplifies the power of your touch.

When I'm actually touching the girl, I follow a pretty simple escalation. Shoulder touches when I'm starting out to accentuate a point, light shoves when teasing, Eventually I move closer to the girl, and I start touching her forearm, wrists, upper chest area. Usually when I introduce these types of touch, I'm either deeply engaging her in conversation, so she's not super focused on the touching but is instead just feeling it(this dodges FSC which I think is one of your concerns with escalating) OR I'm demonstrating an example/doing a role play that involves me touching these more erotically charged areas. Eventually this touch becomes the new ground floor and I escalate up from there. Caressing her belly and depending on her level of comfort, I might even start to tease her to arouse and tempt(link to Lofty's post on Samurajack's journal. He explains a really good escalation process, which... now that I see it again, is pretty much what I'm doing... and it makes these girls extremely wet) around area's that she'd want me to stimulate. Breasts and pussy really. The way I tease these spots in by touching the upper chest area and inching closer and closer to the breasts, or while i'm caressing her belly, I'll slide down south but not go all the way(but noticeably close to where the thought crosses her mind)

Once I'm doing those kinds of touches, they are usually aroused(not very aroused, but getting wet) and here is when I start kissing.
You mentioned you wanted to kiss her neck... but I didn't see any escalation prior to this. I feel like if you were to actually kiss her neck without escalating to there, you'd be met with FSC as she's not that aroused.

I then start to kiss her lips. My last 3 escalations(did not get big LMR that I couldn't swat down easily for any of these) I've always kept the girl verbally stimulated before going in for the kiss. And the things that I usually say consist of strengthening the vibe, pacing her reality with me, or telling her something about being able to unleash all of her desires, all of this in a very seductive voice with pauses for added tension.

Once were kissing some of the sexual tension is lost, but that doesen't matter as she's usually aroused enough for me to do more explicit touches which we all know of.

2) Verbally
Sex talk is a big one here. But also, having a seductive voice at a good cadence( using pauses to build tension) can make practically anything you say to the girl sound arousing. The main point of my verbals when I'm escalating is either to create good frames for sex to happen. Anti judgement, sexual liberty frames, spontaneous adventure frames, and to keep her rational mind occupied as I touch her. No rational mind= no FSC(unless you break the bubble, which I've experienced here) Sometimes I'm only doing of these objectives at a time, such as the fluff talk I mention in that last link, but being able to do both seems to be very efficient which I was able to do here. Doesn't need to be hypnotic to work, you just need to be getting in her head with what you say. The way I've escalated my verbals is by using juicier and juicier sexual descriptions. And I never really stop talking. You can fuck her physically but you can also fuck her mind.

Doing these two well simultaneously, I've been confident in my ability to close a girl when I've isolated her, and get her extremely aroused to the point of no return. By the time I'm entering the girl they are drenched and want it badly, which is a personal preference of mine.

This is very good stuff. Do you practice sex talk transitions/gambits on your own in front of a mirror? What examples/role plays do you do that work well to touch these areas without triggering FSC?

I feel like I need to sit down, study and practice these verbals on my own at home so I can be comfortable and confident bringing them up when talking to a woman. I would not currently be able to keep a girl verbally stimulated while running this escalation process because I would run out of things to say. Now I think about it - a good one I could have maybe used would have been qualifying her on how she was so comfortable coming straight to mine - telling her how I liked when girls were so open, free and comfortable, going for what they want. That it is sexy and spontaneous.

Also, it seems you are a fundamentally attractive guy, but just don't see yourself that way, as if your perception of yourself is still lagging behind?
Like when a fat girl loses weight and is all of sudden hot, but doesn't know how to act hot?
Yeah man. Long story short I was an awkward nerd growing up, got way better looking but still lost my v card really late and now am essentially 8 years behind everyone else my age regarding dating and relationships. This disconnect still makes me insecure, and makes me feel like an imposter.

But my experiences particularly over the last year have started to slowly reshape this and making me a lot more confident in myself. I am starting to feel what it is actually like to be an attractive man, free of insecurities and doubt. I am only now starting to internalize how attractive men think and act. Before I would read about it but it didn't really make sense. It feels like I am discovering something much deeper and more primal that I have been missing all these years.

But it is still a long hard journey full of mistakes. I am a bit of a hard case too.


I think one thing that could help you is just testing what you can get away with. Where are the boundaries of your influence?
Also I noticed you mentioned you had some frame control issues... well say less. Already though, a big part of your frame's strength is how much YOU believe in it.

Link to Kvothe's journal on frame control(filled with more links)
My thoughts on it(more links as well)

Yeah, I am still very inhibited and feel weird about exerting my influence on others - something I need to work on.
 
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Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Also, there’s an article laying about by Chase where he states that when a girl is at your place you must kiss her within 10 mins. He says more experienced guys can be lenient on this rule.

I’ve always followed this and it has worked a charm.

You should to.
I knew about this rule but felt weird about it since I hadn't met her before. I've detailed why I felt this way in my reply to Lobo but yeah, I have to get more comfortable moving fast, way faster than I am used to. Because if I am not comfortable with it, how will she be? I need to lead.
 

Lobo

Cro-Magnon Man
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Feb 24, 2020
Messages
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Agree. I don't know why I was so hesitant to do something so simple but I can make some guesses. I feel like I was looking for more signs of interest from her from the get go given why she came over but didn't get them.
The reason I start low and go high with my touches is because its building compliance as she's letting me touch her like so. You know how if you can get someone saying yes to you a bunch, you can build a ladder and progressively get away with bigger demands from them... this is the same but with touch as the compliance ladder. And low compliance touch is low risk too, but still gives you that initial compliance that you need to climb up the touch ladder. Also... the girl doesen't necesarilly need to "like" you to fuck you... the main pre-requisite I see is that she needs to be compliant with you(which you are getting when she lets you progressively do more to her). Also if you get some resistance its not the end of the world... just go a few steps down the ladder and back up later.
It's happened a couple times now where I have erred on the side of caution and only briefly touched her, then gone to escalate on the couch sexually which has met with resistance.
Yea missing compliance, de-escalate and then escalate properly
This is very good stuff. Do you practice sex talk transitions/gambits on your own in front of a mirror? What examples/role plays do you do that work well to touch these areas without triggering FSC?
I haven't really practiced the sex talk.... but when I do it I focus less on the words but more on the vibe I emit to the girl. Sexy voice and pauses. And descriptions that make her ears(and tits) perk up.

As for examples/roleplay(and really just excuses to touch her) I generally just jump on an opportunity I see.

Last time the girl was showing me a video of a monkey using his mind to play a game(not very seductive) but then I said something like
"You know... one thing thats interesting... is monkeys and humans are very similar... like (grab her forearm) our skeletal structure is the same(feel the bones in the forearm) but did you know that monkey's can't really control their strength. Like these soft gentle movements (i then do soft gentle movements on her wrist area) would be really difficult for them. Their muscles are generally all or nothing... so its hard for them to be gentle... and affectionate... like this"

Another one I did(the other day actually)
I had already built a bit of compliance from her and we were semi isolated. The girl was super tickleish in the knees and said something about how when she does it, it doesent tickle her. And I said

"Yea thats because your not putting all of your attention on it like you would if someone else were to do it. I know how to make you not tickleish there... you just need to divert your attention... elsewhere(as I leaned over her and put a finger to her neck). Now, instead of thinking about your knee... i want you to give careful attention to what you are feeling here(i also moved her closer to me and moved her hair out of the way. Here is when I started kissing her neck.
I also would touch her knee and she suddenly wasn't tickleish there at all!

One last one I did recently was explaining to the girl why some areas of the body are more sensitive than others. I then grab a sensitive area. Like the wrists and make her feel stuff by sliding my fingers around there. Then as I do this I say
"These areas are really sensitive because they are areas your body wants you to protect... you have vital parts in these spots... but it also feels really good... when you have someone you genuinely trust gently touch these vulnerable areas..."
 

topcat

Modern Human
Modern Human
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Messages
699
The reason I start low and go high with my touches is because its building compliance as she's letting me touch her like so. You know how if you can get someone saying yes to you a bunch, you can build a ladder and progressively get away with bigger demands from them... this is the same but with touch as the compliance ladder. And low compliance touch is low risk too, but still gives you that initial compliance that you need to climb up the touch ladder. Also... the girl doesen't necesarilly need to "like" you to fuck you... the main pre-requisite I see is that she needs to be compliant with you(which you are getting when she lets you progressively do more to her). Also if you get some resistance its not the end of the world... just go a few steps down the ladder and back up later.

Yea missing compliance, de-escalate and then escalate properly

I haven't really practiced the sex talk.... but when I do it I focus less on the words but more on the vibe I emit to the girl. Sexy voice and pauses. And descriptions that make her ears(and tits) perk up.

As for examples/roleplay(and really just excuses to touch her) I generally just jump on an opportunity I see.

Last time the girl was showing me a video of a monkey using his mind to play a game(not very seductive) but then I said something like
"You know... one thing thats interesting... is monkeys and humans are very similar... like (grab her forearm) our skeletal structure is the same(feel the bones in the forearm) but did you know that monkey's can't really control their strength. Like these soft gentle movements (i then do soft gentle movements on her wrist area) would be really difficult for them. Their muscles are generally all or nothing... so its hard for them to be gentle... and affectionate... like this"

Another one I did(the other day actually)
I had already built a bit of compliance from her and we were semi isolated. The girl was super tickleish in the knees and said something about how when she does it, it doesent tickle her. And I said

"Yea thats because your not putting all of your attention on it like you would if someone else were to do it. I know how to make you not tickleish there... you just need to divert your attention... elsewhere(as I leaned over her and put a finger to her neck). Now, instead of thinking about your knee... i want you to give careful attention to what you are feeling here(i also moved her closer to me and moved her hair out of the way. Here is when I started kissing her neck.
I also would touch her knee and she suddenly wasn't tickleish there at all!

One last one I did recently was explaining to the girl why some areas of the body are more sensitive than others. I then grab a sensitive area. Like the wrists and make her feel stuff by sliding my fingers around there. Then as I do this I say
"These areas are really sensitive because they are areas your body wants you to protect... you have vital parts in these spots... but it also feels really good... when you have someone you genuinely trust gently touch these vulnerable areas..."
This is really good and simple tech Lobo. I’ll be incorporating this into my game.

Cheers!
 

POB

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
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The reason I start low and go high with my touches is because its building compliance as she's letting me touch her like so. You know how if you can get someone saying yes to you a bunch, you can build a ladder and progressively get away with bigger demands from them... this is the same but with touch as the compliance ladder. And low compliance touch is low risk too, but still gives you that initial compliance that you need to climb up the touch ladder. Also... the girl doesen't necesarilly need to "like" you to fuck you... the main pre-requisite I see is that she needs to be compliant with you(which you are getting when she lets you progressively do more to her). Also if you get some resistance its not the end of the world... just go a few steps down the ladder and back up later.

Yea missing compliance, de-escalate and then escalate properly

I haven't really practiced the sex talk.... but when I do it I focus less on the words but more on the vibe I emit to the girl. Sexy voice and pauses. And descriptions that make her ears(and tits) perk up.

As for examples/roleplay(and really just excuses to touch her) I generally just jump on an opportunity I see.

Last time the girl was showing me a video of a monkey using his mind to play a game(not very seductive) but then I said something like
"You know... one thing thats interesting... is monkeys and humans are very similar... like (grab her forearm) our skeletal structure is the same(feel the bones in the forearm) but did you know that monkey's can't really control their strength. Like these soft gentle movements (i then do soft gentle movements on her wrist area) would be really difficult for them. Their muscles are generally all or nothing... so its hard for them to be gentle... and affectionate... like this"

Another one I did(the other day actually)
I had already built a bit of compliance from her and we were semi isolated. The girl was super tickleish in the knees and said something about how when she does it, it doesent tickle her. And I said

"Yea thats because your not putting all of your attention on it like you would if someone else were to do it. I know how to make you not tickleish there... you just need to divert your attention... elsewhere(as I leaned over her and put a finger to her neck). Now, instead of thinking about your knee... i want you to give careful attention to what you are feeling here(i also moved her closer to me and moved her hair out of the way. Here is when I started kissing her neck.
I also would touch her knee and she suddenly wasn't tickleish there at all!

One last one I did recently was explaining to the girl why some areas of the body are more sensitive than others. I then grab a sensitive area. Like the wrists and make her feel stuff by sliding my fingers around there. Then as I do this I say
"These areas are really sensitive because they are areas your body wants you to protect... you have vital parts in these spots... but it also feels really good... when you have someone you genuinely trust gently touch these vulnerable areas..."
Please repost this on the techniques section.
Gonna help a lot of guys!
 
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