Should I pursue or wait for interest to build

[DakenMarquis]

Hey guys had a girl who has been into me,and flirting etc, we kissed, went on a date bout 2 wks ago, made sure to make discretion and casual frames, and have stayed in touch over snapchat/ number.

Issue is we were flirting last week, I was teasing her about her kissing technique (mind you kept little contact, b/w the date and then the texts), she unadded when I asked for a time to set up a day to practice. Texted her if I said something off, her response: " yea maybe." Told her she's free to tell me what she felt/didn't like, but haven't gotten a response since. I've kept it cool(fairly high value guy), talked to other girls, went on another date with someone since. So the question is: do I call/text her something that gets us out and vibing again leading to escalation, or wait until the tension's built up so she reaches out and then we go from there?

This is weird behavior for me, since I get lays and keep things aloof but good vibes w girls I've dated so not sure what's happening on her end, seems like mixed signals(attainability issues) or she's trying to get me more interested?

Would love perspectives on this, and how to read or lead situations like this in the future, and see if I have sticking points Im not aware of(especially attainability, which I believe may had trouble gauging and balancing)

~Daken

 

[rockstar]

managed to make discretion and non-ltr frames

Be careful about being too explicit about things being casual and then not having sex with the girl.

mind you kept little contact,

You should have probably been getting her out again not "keeping little contact" so she can forget about you

she unadded when I asked for a time to set up a day to practice. Texted her if I said something off, her response: " yea maybe."

Obviously she didn't like this. Don't set up a date like this unless you're really confident that the girl will be enthusiastic about it. It's unnecessary. And don't ask that question when the answer is obvious. That's not the easiest thing to recover from because you're pushing things forward in a clumsy way and getting rejected. AND she cuts off the thread there, so you either have to restart it on another app (chasing on a no) or just start a new convo which has a bit of a "scared to address the elephant in the room vibe". First thought is frame her as being too nervous or unconfident in her kissing skills, but you don't want to keep going on the physical expectations. And trying to take the pressure off for the date is too backtrack-y and weak. I'd have to think of a good recovery.

Told her she's free to tell me what she felt/didn't like

This just reads really weak. You're putting too much on her by asking her to explain her ick that you missed.

So the question is: do I call/text her something that gets us out and vibing again leading to escalation, or wait until the tension's built up so she reaches out and then we go from there?

You should feel very relieved if she reaches out to you. It's probably dead, but sometimes you get surprised. Hard to recover when you DLV yourself like that. You already showed the bad signal, you can't explain it away. You can act like it didn't happen, but she still knows, and it's right there in convo history.

so not sure what's happening on her end, seems like mixed signals or she's trying to get me more interested?

It is definitely neither of those

 

[DakenMarquis]

Hey @rockstar thanks for the feedback and sure lmk what you may think of

Just to clarify I didn't tell her to tell me what I did wrong, but rather to clarify if she wanted to address something about the last date or anything pertaining to our dynamic, as a conversation fluff. That's concering if you read it in the weak way, that may be what she interpreted. (Hope that's easily fixed reaching out (either clairfying what i mean) or sometime/somehow...

 

[rockstar]

Having a girl explain to you what you did wrong or correct you is pretty much always a bad frame. There are other things you can do in similar situations like "Did that make you think I only want to hook up with you?" (I wouldn't have sent that there though, just that you can use that "guess at the issue" strategy). Younger girls often won't be aware of what exactly turned them off, but this is a harder misstep to recover on. You want the vibe to be "she misunderstood me and overreacted" not "I made a mistake and need her to teach me what I did wrong". You might have been able to send something like "Are you one of those girls that blocks and unblocks the guy she's seeing every other week?". (this is a frame-flip, where she did something that implied you fucked up and you flip it back on her by implying what she did was weird/silly).

The bigger takeaway here is that framing a date as a hookup (when you said your date was going to involve kissing lessons) should usually be avoided. It adds expectations to the date and there's just too many negative conclusions that a girl can jump to from that. You don't gain anything by it, and it adds unnecessary risk - as long as you get the girl to meet you, you can just escalate then. You can joke about having to teach her or give her practice, but it's better to keep it hypothetical and not explicitly tie it to the date like that.

 

[Chad Tyrone]

Hey guys had a girl who has been into me,and flirting etc, we kissed, went on a date bout 2 wks ago, made sure to make discretion and casual frames, and have stayed in touch over snapchat/ number.

Issue is we were flirting last week, I was teasing her about her kissing technique (mind you kept little contact, b/w the date and then the texts), she unadded when I asked for a time to set up a day to practice. Texted her if I said something off, her response: " yea maybe." Told her she's free to tell me what she felt/didn't like, but haven't gotten a response since. I've kept it cool(fairly high value guy), talked to other girls, went on another date with someone since. So the question is: do I call/text her something that gets us out and vibing again leading to escalation, or wait until the tension's built up so she reaches out and then we go from there?

This is weird behavior for me, since I get lays and keep things aloof but good vibes w girls I've dated so not sure what's happening on her end, seems like mixed signals(attainability issues) or she's trying to get me more interested?

Would love perspectives on this, and how to read or lead situations like this in the future, and see if I have sticking points Im not aware of(especially attainability, which I believe may had trouble gauging and balancing)

~Daken

Kissing breaks the tension so you are always best served doing it where both you and the girl are somewhere alone or doing it right where you pull away and leave her wanting more. Regardless, you should be kissing girls if you know you are going to have sex with them right then.

Also, it's usually best to invite girls over to your place on the first date if you can. Leaving things for next time just because you wanna game her more or think that she is not yet ready is usually not the best strategy. Better pull and make your move rather than wait and probably never see her again ...not most girls will show up for the second date as much as the three-dates- rule advocates will make you believe.lol

Of note:it isn't guaranteed that you will get her on the first date but trust me if you do things right and follow a sound process most of the time you will.This ,I promise

Why tease her about her kissing technique?I'm all for teasing girls but why do that (yet over text) ...you open more room to mess things up which you did.Maximum texts you should have sent her would be a "enjoyed the date text " if you did and a second date ask-out text .

You set casual frames yet show boyfriend behavior.You ask her if u texted her something off and what she felt she didn't like...all bf behavior . You show her that you care and it's something serious to you much like a boyfriend would.A true lover doesn't panic when a chick doesn't text back(casual) nor does it bother him if a chick blocks or "unadds" him ( carefreeness)These are the frames you should be operating from if you want to get girls fast.

The lover is still at his best assuming attraction if she didn't text back or cognitive of a change in her behavior/interest so that he can calibrate accordingly .

Don't wait for it ...she is disinterested .I don'tknow why you would want to move things forward with her after her casual text "yea maybe".Same as why you would want to call or text her to get her out again.Chances are she won't come out 9 times out of 10 and you are in chasing mode.So yeah seemed like you mucked things up with the teasing or you didn't run things right from the get-go.

There are no mixed signals here bro nor is she trying to get you more interested whatsoever


Check this out

She is auto-rejecting here and I bet it has to do with the teasing...What did you text her ?Maybe you came off as too much of an asshole and she felt insulted

Chad

 

[topcat]

read this

 

[DakenMarquis]

So she was fine w the teasing. she was into "being taught by a good teacher" and was flirty we had some banter about it and her saying "ohhh i see" so thats why her unadding after I asked "tell me a good time to teach you babe" was out of the blue.

(I'll get screenshots if I have them to show you what I mean)

*btw I look heavy like a lover/alternative archetype, good looking i think (been called a 7/8, have modeled sometimes) very fit, tatted(full sleeve and hand, back etc) have dark hair and facial hair also I have been trying to be sweet & warm more recently due to attainability cause I do have a "rotation(other girls)", and am fairly experienced/have lost girls to being aloof/colder. Maybe I'm overcorrecting being too sweet/caring? (Its hard to tell, can't get a clear/objective perspective on myself )

 

[DakenMarquis]

Here is a screenshot of the last "good vibe" interaction prior to her "state change." Not sure how to upload images so a link is here:

Snapchat 493840101 — Postimages

postimg.cc

 

[Chad Tyrone]

Makes sense ...to me, it seems like you came off insulting to her ....good banter shouldn't be about knocking her down "you need more reps with this exercise ". I don't know about you but what would it feel like if a girl told you that .lol

So yeah it's usually best to build her up or pay her a compliment before you criticize her

Give this a gander and this too.

''Want your lips again'' tanks your value. You want her more than she wants you .You want to keep her on her toes wondering whether you want her or not.Wanting her lips shows all you cards bro.

''Good at teaching " shows too much value which makes her feel outclassed and demeaned as seen here. As much as you can be good at something, it doesn't pay to tell everyone you are .Best thing you could do is tell them how you could help them be good like you without outright saying it...if you know what I mean.

As noted in this article . @ Chase says:

1. Oversell the subject. It's not just "I'm going to teach you how to paint." It's "I'm going to teach you to paint a nature scene so realistic they're going to hang your stuff in art galleries." It's not just "I'm going to teach you martial arts." It's "I'm going to teach you how to knock out a 250-pound man in three strikes." Remember you are not just selling the thing with this, you are also selling yourself... and who sounds more like a master teacher, the guy who says, "I'll teach you how to bowl" or the guy who says "I'll teach you how to get a strike on every bowl"? Oversell the lesson to build her interest in it and anticipation for what she's about to learn.
   
   You are selling yourself , yes but subtly.Get it
   
   So yeah seems like you could work on your attainability.
   
   
   
   

   *btw I look heavy like a lover/alternative archetype, good looking i think (been called a 7/8, have modeled sometimes) very fit, tatted(full sleeve and hand, back etc) have dark hair and facial hair

   
   It pays to look like one but it pays doubly more to do what a lover does
   
   Moving faster,
   Acting with intent,
   Closing with consistency...the works
   
   Chad
   
   
   
   

 

[Mr Mistah]

Lmao

You basically told her she's a bad kisser

I'd be upset too

 

[DakenMarquis]

I was teasing ofc, and she seemed to be into it and understood that, if you look at the image screenshot

So confused here lol

 

[Will_V]

Hey guys had a girl who has been into me,and flirting etc, we kissed, went on a date bout 2 wks ago, made sure to make discretion and casual frames, and have stayed in touch over snapchat/ number.

Issue is we were flirting last week, I was teasing her about her kissing technique (mind you kept little contact, b/w the date and then the texts), she unadded when I asked for a time to set up a day to practice. Texted her if I said something off, her response: " yea maybe." Told her she's free to tell me what she felt/didn't like, but haven't gotten a response since. I've kept it cool(fairly high value guy), talked to other girls, went on another date with someone since. So the question is: do I call/text her something that gets us out and vibing again leading to escalation, or wait until the tension's built up so she reaches out and then we go from there?

This is weird behavior for me, since I get lays and keep things aloof but good vibes w girls I've dated so not sure what's happening on her end, seems like mixed signals(attainability issues) or she's trying to get me more interested?

Would love perspectives on this, and how to read or lead situations like this in the future, and see if I have sticking points Im not aware of(especially attainability, which I believe may had trouble gauging and balancing)

~Daken

@rockstar nailed it, the problem is you are force-framing everything into a kissing lesson, which comes across needy.

In your texts, first you validate her too much, telling her "I want your sweet lips again" which, ok you can do that sometimes but the chase frame veers toward your side for sure, and her "aww thanks" well I don't know about you but that rings alarm bells for me.

Then framing the thing as you the teacher and her the student could easily come across as an ego defensive move to try and get back the frame, especially if she felt like you overcomplimented her at first. But ok, it's not too bad, you have to do something. Could've been smoother though. But here's where you needed to be satisfied with having the frame back and get off that subject altogether.

Problem is that after that bumpy set of texts you basically soft (hard?) close the date while framing it as a kissing lesson, which is all kinds of bad.

What you needed to do was wrap up the kissing thing, pull back into normal banter for a while, and then soft close.

 

[DakenMarquis]

@Will_V ^ Yes, this seems more in alignment w what occurred in the framing which i didn't notice. Any recommendations on how to reset things ? Or gain the frame back towards the right track?

 

[Will_V]

@Will_V ^ Yes, this seems more in alignment w what occurred in the framing which i didn't notice. Any recommendations on how to reset things ? Or gain the frame back towards the right track?

I'd send something like:

"Hey realized I came on a bit strong in those last texts, don't want you to feel uncomfortable. I really enjoyed spending time with you, hope we can do it again sometime "

and just wait to see what her response is. If she's still keen she'll accept the frame or tell you what the issue is.

 

[Mr Mistah]

My Read:

Nothing needy about telling her you miss her lips

I'd personally have left out the lmao tho

That was pull

But imo the text fell through at the push
Told her she's a bad kisser
Too much push
She might not have shown it but simply reversing roles will help you understand what she's feeling
The kissing teacher frame that follows doesnt help Might be perceipved as patronising

After her aww text I'd have said sth like:

Good kisser
So is that your finishing move when you want to win over guys you like or is there more

Atp in time I'd make amends by letting her know that it was a tease not insult

My 2c

 

[Dimension]

Here is a screenshot of the last "good vibe" interaction prior to her "state change." Not sure how to upload images so a link is here:

Snapchat 493840101 — Postimages

postimg.cc

That is just creepy and needy way to play it..

#1 You had her locked, but you overplayed it.
Would of been 10 times easier if you just let it roll on it’s natural course… Example remain mysterious and let her come to you.

#2 You appeared cocky, needy and overly playful, no wonder she took off…

#3 It’s not always about what you say, but how you say it..

#4 I’m not native english, but these lmao and babe shit has to stop..You had one kiss and you are phrasing your conversation like you were married for 5 years..

Major turn off when you’re needy, because the way i see it is you are flat out needy creep, who can’t wait to molest her, by injecting fake ”comfort” into your conversation with phrases : ”babe” and ”lmao” .. She’s not falling for that unless she’s under age, but i doubt that’s the case.

Also: It’s not the smartest move to put her down, by saying she needs to study kissing. Who the fuck are you to judge? That’s what she was thinking when she read your comments about your kissing action, believe me!

I don’t think you can turn this around by the looks of things. Best you can do is, learn from your mistakes and try to follow advice i gave you.

Women are not into boys, they love solid, grounded man. Confident man, who knows his value, doesn’t need to prove anything to anyone.

Good luck on the field

 

[DakenMarquis]

@Dimension i don't appreciate the slander by you calling me creepy or needy, you know nothing about our dynamic, how we met, how much interest she showed me, how many lays I have, how successful I am in life. Try not amog in the forums especially when ur a space monkey. If you don't have value to add, I would highly recommend you move along and not create a toxic, and antagonistic atmosphere by social ladder climbing and positioning yourself a certain way for optics. Thanks for the attempt, not appreciated.
~Daken

 

[Dimension]

@Dimension i don't appreciate the slander by you calling me creepy or needy, you know nothing about our dynamic, how we met, how much interest she showed me, how many lays I have, how successful I am in life. Try not amog in the forums especially when ur a space monkey. If you don't have value to add, I would highly recommend you move along and not create a toxic, and antagonistic atmosphere by social ladder climbing and positioning yourself a certain way for optics. Thanks for the attempt, not appreciated.
~Daken

My intentions were not to insult you, but to share my perspective with you.
I guess i’m too straight and strict with my beliefs.

You certainly don’t need to prove me anything.

That thread would of never existed, if you played your cards right.

 

[Chase]

@DakenMarquis,

@rockstar and @Will_V gave you the diplomatic responses. @Dimension was a little rawer. But they're all hitting at a few basic lessons here.

Main points:

1. Unless she's converted (i.e., slept with you on multiple occasions) or you spent 2/3+ of the last date snogging, telling her you want her lips again is chasing. It's chasing because you are telling her you are more ready for physical intimacy with her than she probably is with you.
   
   
2. Doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down after she begs off ("awww thanks", "lol think so?") rather than plays along ("oh baby, I can't wait to taste your lips again too") makes you come across rather tone deaf. (even if she plays along, it's still a very risky play in light of #1... but better than if she doesn't play along and you forge on with it regardless)
   
   
3. Not enough info on the teaching frame... if you're a really amazing kisser and she talked about that numerous times and seemed generally very surprised and impressed, it's sort of okay. If you have all that AND you framed it while with her that you'd teach her AND she bought into the frame and very much wanted you to teach her, then in that case it may actually function as solid callback. Otherwise it's going to feel forced.
   
   
4. Asking a girl if you "said something off" is mostly always a kiss of death (see what I did there?) for romantic interest. Positions you as socially unaware of how you're coming off + approval-seeking ("Tell me if you approve or disapprove of my communication"). Telling her to tell you what she did/didn't like can work in an established sexual relationship where the girl is willing to point out communication errors to you in the interest of a better relationship... but during the courtship it just tells her this isn't the guy for you.

This is weird behavior for me, since I get lays and keep things aloof but good vibes w girls I've dated so not sure what's happening on her end, seems like mixed signals(attainability issues) or she's trying to get me more interested?

The rule for understanding value vs. attainability problems is, "Does she act bitter & cold toward you (too low attainability) or nice and gentle with you (too high attainability)?"

You played it too easy to get here, put yourself into "no challenge" land, and she was very nice (if short) in how she begged off. When given a chance to dump on you (the "did I say something wrong?" question), she very politely begged off again with just a "yea maybe." When girls are trying to take care of your emotions, you made yourself too easy to get.

We've got some good resources on texting on GC. Could be worth checking out to firm up that texting game.

Cheers!
Chase

 

[Mr Mistah]

Quick one @Chase

Is "Aww thanks" a bad thing to hear from a girl?

Is there room for thoughtfullness during seduction or is that un lover like?

Asking bc I've gotten a few of those in the past

Mostly from me offering genuine compliments to the girl

Or reassuring them when they're beating themselves up about some insecurity of theirs e.g Some girl whose family is always shaming her about her weight. Told her she's okay and shouldnt pay much mind to naysayers

I can instinctively tell that reassuring chicks is not lover esque but I just want to see where the line is drawn