Should I read "The Game" or "Models"

Teevster

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if is nlp: a lot of guys play with rickers (i think that is the name)

Dave Riker is not recommended for beginners.

My favourite products:

- Dave Riker - Language and Conversation
- Dave Riker - Speed Seduction Manual
- In10se - Game
- Swinggcat - Real World Seduction 2.0
- Gunwitch - Seduction MMA
- Love Systems (Cajun, Keychain, Veraticity etc) - Beyond Words
- Bishop - Bishop's Journal
- Sixty - The Complete System (physical game)

Best,
Teevster
 

Sunday Fredrick

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I have a wonderful book I got online that helped me a lot in my relationships. You can chat me up if interested
 

Vision

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David D and his Advanced Dating Techniques program is underrated, imo. A lot of it was him modeling and taking people's content who were much better than him and displaying it for everyone to see (plus a lot of his own stuff with octopus mating sequences mixed in, lol).

Real World Seduction is a great program too.

Both of them have a really heavy focus on attraction techniques though. So I'd be careful about that since, while it's very important, a lot of guys get stuck in attraction, especially when they're first learning it and end up coming off as a total asshole and only attracting really low self-esteem women because they're so heavily focused on using attraction techniques (yes, I've been there).

I'm not sure if you can even get any of the Love Systems stuff anymore... or the old school Mystery Method materials but they are both very good. I personally prefer the way push/pull is explained in the Love System's materials more than RWS, but that's me.

Sinn has some really good stuff... His 5 minute chemistry program has good stuff, same with his daygame program and some of his sexual stuff... he's known for overgaming though, so be aware of that.

Also, I don't know if you can still get Captain Jack's stuff or not but he's a legend with his sexual framing stuff.

Ultimately, you'll just need to get information that you find that resonates with you and then go and extensively field test it... everything, imo, is person dependent. Your looks, personality, confidence, style, voice, ethnicity, height, sense of humor, and a bunch of other factors, some you can do a lot about and some you can't do much about... all will determine how effective or ineffective something is for you along with the woman, her looks, self image, emotional state, attraction to you, what country you're in, her ethnicity, etc.

IMO, the most important thing that a guy can learn is social calibration... which takes lots and lots of trial and error, testing, finding out what works for you, being in set a lot, getting blown out, testing your limits and boundaries, etc.

Alright, I'm done.

I have a wonderful book I got online that helped me a lot in my relationships. You can chat me up if interested

Why don't you just say what it is so that we can all see what you're talking about... that way we can publicly judge you for your choice in books.

;)
 
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RedNeck

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Neil Strauss has another book called “ rules of the game “ . This teaches you seduction . The “ game” is more like history of the community
 

POB

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^most of the books are pretty much outdated but are still useful, which is why you still may need to write a journal and be active and as wm says just post your sticking points.... Game is fluid, environment changes (for example gaming during corona), technology changes, generational changes... most of those books are written for generation x is not the same gaming generation x than gaming generation z, fundamentally same stuff but there are multiple societal changes
Problem is there are not a lot of 18yos chasing pussy and studying seduction anymore.
They are spending their time streaming games on twitch or shooting crappy videos on tik tok.
We need young blood to push things forward and write new material in a way us +40s cats just can't anymore

i would avoid red pill stuff though
I second that.
They have some great overall concepts but very poor execution in real life.
Complete waste of time
 

Warped Mindless

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I don’t see a lot of the older material being outdated. If it worked in 2006 it still works now. Human psychology and biology has not changed in 15 years.

Obviously you must use a little common sense and calibrate things still but overall, the same main concepts and principals are the same.
 

Teevster

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Problem is there are not a lot of 18yos chasing pussy and studying seduction anymore.

I am soon 30 (Who would have believed that the known young seduction kid actually turned into an adult) and now I realize I am here discussing seduction with oldies. The new guys are usually in their late 20's at best.

I go to clubs a lot and the young crowd have never been as bad at seducing girls ever. Amogs? Not a thing. Male competition? This is the LEAST of my concerns. It is a bit hilarious but also very sad. The bad part is that women are less seeking to mate, since it is not in their modus operandi to hook up with guys in clubs anymore. Not a big issue for me, however the club freebies are almost non-existant and the bar for getting laid is set a bit higher. This does not mean that seduction is more difficult per.se., just that the "easy girls" have become harder to get. On the other hand, the more difficult girls have been easier to get. I remember back in the days you would end up dealing with girls who knew how to deal with players and would start a frame-war in no time: with tons of tests and jealousy plots. I DO NOT miss those times. However I do miss that occasional "easy 7" when I am not in shape or not feeling like putting in work.

-Teevster
 
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uriel

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I go to clubs a lot and the young crowd have never been as bad at seducing girls ever. Amogs? Not a thing. Male competition? This is the LEAST of my concerns. It is a bit hilarious but also very sad. The bad part is that women are less seeking to mate, since it is not in their modus operandi to hook up with guys in clubs anymore. Not a big issue for me, however the club freebies are almost non-existant and the bar for getting laid is set a bit higher. This does not mean that seduction is more difficult per.se., just that the "easy girls" have become harder to get. On the other hand, the more difficult girls have been easier to get. I remember back in the days you would end deal with girls who knew how to deal with players and would start a frame-war in no time: with tons of tests and jealousy plots. I DO NOT miss those times. However I do miss that occasional "easy 7" when I am not in shape or not feeling like putting in work.

Yeah, I think the rise of dating apps led to people dropping the bar into their seduction efforts.
Now you can get dates while being a bum in your couch, without showering and lacking social calibration.

I personally prefer it that way… mediocre men and women sort themselves out in the web while leaving the real world for the best players.
 

Teevster

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Now you can get dates while being a bum in your couch, without showering and lacking social calibration.

Correction: "now you THINK you can get dates while being a bum in your couch, without showering and lacking social calibration."

Unless you have a pristine profile, amazing pictures and very good looking...

And... happen to live in a place where dating apps are the shit... (not the case where I currently live)
 

DonGately

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I think the 'freebies' are definitely still at the bars/lounges, in fact I think they're easier to get [at least the legit good-looking ones] than ever. Because the 20s have no idea about trying to pick them up and get laid immediately. They probably get way less IRL attention that ever before, because of the rise of dating apps where guys think they have a chance with her. And girls are so much more sex positive these days than they used to be. The amount of girls who tell me how much they masturbate, do 3 somes, watch porn, watch rough & degrading porn is astonishing.

There are hot college girls out there jilling off to hardcore porn 3x a day, you don't think they want a guy to pick them up and have hot, rough sex with them? They're dying for it. And they ain't getting it from Andy in acc'tg or engineering class.
 

Teevster

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I still don’t understand @Teevster … Has the seduction became harder or easier?

I general, it is the same - that is if you look at the big picture.

However, if you look more closely the easy girls have become harder to seduce, and the known "difficult girls" easier. Basically a more equal distribution, whereas back in the days it was more widespread.
 

Warped Mindless

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Might depend on location too. I’ve been doing this since 2006 (wow.. 15 years already!) and I personally think it’s as easy as ever. Women are horny and men are such pussies now that the women crave masculine energy.

They are also much less concerned with seeming like a “slut” and coming off as easy.

And yeah, back in the day you could expect shit form other guys at least sometimes. Now? Hardly.
 

Skills

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I am soon 30 (Who would have believed that the known young seduction kid actually turned into an adult) and now I realize I am here discussing seduction with oldies. The new guys are usually in their late 20's at best.

I go to clubs a lot and the young crowd have never been as bad at seducing girls ever. Amogs? Not a thing. Male competition? This is the LEAST of my concerns. It is a bit hilarious but also very sad. The bad part is that women are less seeking to mate, since it is not in their modus operandi to hook up with guys in clubs anymore. Not a big issue for me, however the club freebies are almost non-existant and the bar for getting laid is set a bit higher. This does not mean that seduction is more difficult per.se., just that the "easy girls" have become harder to get. On the other hand, the more difficult girls have been easier to get. I remember back in the days you would end up dealing with girls who knew how to deal with players and would start a frame-war in no time: with tons of tests and jealousy plots. I DO NOT miss those times. However I do miss that occasional "easy 7" when I am not in shape or not feeling like putting in work.

-Teevster
Correct, the look for dtf type game, over...
 

Skills

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I general, it is the same - that is if you look at the big picture.

However, if you look more closely the easy girls have become harder to seduce, and the known "difficult girls" easier. Basically a more equal distribution, whereas back in the days it was more widespread.
Notice how Halloween the lay reports to the roof women are not comming out as before consistently
 

Skills

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Problem is there are not a lot of 18yos chasing pussy and studying seduction anymore.
They are spending their time streaming games on twitch or shooting crappy videos on tik tok.
We need young blood to push things forward and write new material in a way us +40s cats just can't anymore


I second that.
They have some great overall concepts but very poor execution in real life.
Complete waste of time
Haha i am still out there pimping, Yeah technology has changed landscape, there are still some young bucks pimping but Yeah a minority. Also Corona and the family structure, movies like bis post etc.. chase has a good post on this, if someone can link it,single moms etc.. it is a lot factors...
 

DonGately

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Might depend on location too. I’ve been doing this since 2006 (wow.. 15 years already!) and I personally think it’s as easy as ever. Women are horny and men are such pussies now that the women crave masculine energy.

They are also much less concerned with seeming like a “slut” and coming off as easy.

And yeah, back in the day you could expect shit form other guys at least sometimes. Now? Hardly.
I couldn't agree with this more. No girl worries about being a 'slut' anymore, at least when she's with me I am very deniable dick because I'm older and never in social circle. Women are so horny these days. Any women that see me out with a younger, hot girl are jealous it's not them as they sit with their bitchy friends drinking coffee or cosmos. One example was this ltr side-piece I had, lived with 2 other girls [2 story apt] and they'd have friends over but the two girls didn't want my girl having me over. They were jealous they weren't getting the sexual attention she was [even though both were attractive] -- there was never any drama btw me and the other girls who often had their friends over later than myself. I was always impeccably dressed and never had a remotely unpleasant convo with them, we never even hung out in the living room, just in my girl's room.

I literally haven't gotten shit from another guy in 15+ years now. Even service people who might have acted weirdly to screw up your game in the past are generally supportive now.
 

Alpha13SC

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Might depend on location too. I’ve been doing this since 2006 (wow.. 15 years already!) and I personally think it’s as easy as ever. Women are horny and men are such pussies now that the women crave masculine energy.

They are also much less concerned with seeming like a “slut” and coming off as easy.

And yeah, back in the day you could expect shit form other guys at least sometimes. Now? Hardly.
True. More and more men being pro feminists, comfort levels raised through the roof, and too many things that lower the T nowadays.
 

Beck Bass

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Correct, the look for dtf type game, over...
Sadly, I have to agree, night game just requires more effort now, back then I was running almost on autopilot and I could get freebies easy, and the preselection from the freebies would allow me to get hotter girls easier too... This is a part people don't realize, having lots of girls showing attraction for you makes your game 100x for potent, whereas in day game this is rarely a factor, I believe (in apps, then, non existant, negative if we wanna talk about how things are rigged for women there).

I wonder though if this has to do only with the whole "modern digital" dating or more with the lockdowns and few clubs open and place where night game is even a thing... Maybe with COVID under control things go back to normal, or at least closer? For sure more women are in dating apps because of lockdowns, some still not going out outta irrational fears around COVID and whatnot.
 

Bismarck

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I can corroborate what Beck Bass is saying here.

I saw for myself what this "social value" thing is like last month at a hot girl's birthday drinks at a bar. All the hot girls, like a domino effect, were either approaching me or orbiting around me, and giving me a type of energy they were not giving anybody else.

Dare I say, even the birthday girl's boyfriend wasn't getting this attention from her (I kissed her on the corners of the lips to greet her when I arrived with him not far away). And this can be described as a reaction to masculine energy. Because they are as if living in a desert, starving for it.

The girl who came up to hug me and was giving me shiny eyes is a Ukrainian who plays the typical prostitute TradCon game girls play in that country. She's an 8 in Western Europe but in Ukraine, she's a 6. The TC game is making guys chase and pretending to be a "good girl".

Because she kept giving me these sparkling eyes I invited her out for drinks that night, and we went for drinks towards the end of November. Did a date close to my place at a bar and she was using all her cards - trying to sit opposite me at the table, then moving her chair away from mine when I went to sit next to her, etc. But otherwise very receptive to touch, and quite compliant in general.

I walked her hand-in-hand to the metro station 2 hours later after deep diving her on her passions and looking her in the eyes with desire, as well as seeding a day 2 at my place to cook. At the metro station peck on lips. She sent me a message "Thank you again for today, it was very nice, and I had a great time" with a shy smilie. Since then she sends me these big walls of text but I've invited her to meet twice and nada. The first time she said "...it sounds great but... [excuse]" and the second "...unfortunately, I can't..." [no excuse] meanwhile stringing me along with questions about my week, as if we're already a couple.

I have decided to full ghost her.
 
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