Should I read "The Game" or "Models"

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
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South Florida
Sadly, I have to agree, night game just requires more effort now, back then I was running almost on autopilot and I could get freebies easy, and the preselection from the freebies would allow me to get hotter girls easier too... This is a part people don't realize, having lots of girls showing attraction for you makes your game 100x for potent, whereas in day game this is rarely a factor, I believe (in apps, then, non existant, negative if we wanna talk about how things are rigged for women there).

I wonder though if this has to do only with the whole "modern digital" dating or more with the lockdowns and few clubs open and place where night game is even a thing... Maybe with COVID under control things go back to normal, or at least closer? For sure more women are in dating apps because of lockdowns, some still not going out outta irrational fears around COVID and whatnot.
Well, women don't go to clubs as much as before, I really don't know the reason, I think gen z is not much into clubbing I guess, could be Corona or the fake inflated validation social media gives don't know....clubs are also destroyed, for example a dance floor landscape use to be 100% dance floor or patio, now is 75% vip/tables 25% pAtio/dance floor in other word the way of clubs is more a bottle service vs strangers socializing....I feel kind of sad for new generation, they didn't get to enjoy the golden years of this stuff... now if you don't know what you are doing, you are fucked... very little room for error on the flip side when they meet guys like us, the attraction 0 to 100 fast...
 

DonGately

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Messages
141
Halfway agree, VIP tables/bottle service has gotta be the easiest way to meet very hot girls ever invented, and I don't mean the servers who are rarely that hot outside Vegas for obvious reasons. Plus the girls are already drinking and ready to party. My boys and I had 10 hot girls at our table one time in Vegas for 5 guys, good ratio - 2 groups of girls from LA. Needless to say everybody closed. 'What happens in Vegas doesn't count....' as they said.

I do agree with you it's a shame they missed the glory of actually great dance club nights. I remember going to see Junior at original Sound Factory. There will never be anything else like that. [Pre-mega club era. And I've had awesome times at the huge clubs and picked up beautiful Manhattan girls but it's not the same.]
 

WorldlyGoldenViper

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 7, 2021
Messages
12
Hi everyone! Sorry for "thread crashing" but there are so many masters here and I couldn't resist it. I have only just signed up to the forum 2 days ago.

Problem is there are not a lot of 18yos chasing pussy and studying seduction anymore.
They are spending their time streaming games on twitch or shooting crappy videos on tik tok.
We need young blood to push things forward and write new material in a way us +40s cats just can't anymore


I second that.
They have some great overall concepts but very poor execution in real life.
Complete waste of time

I am soon 30 (Who would have believed that the known young seduction kid actually turned into an adult) and now I realize I am here discussing seduction with oldies. The new guys are usually in their late 20's at best.

I go to clubs a lot and the young crowd have never been as bad at seducing girls ever. Amogs? Not a thing. Male competition? This is the LEAST of my concerns. It is a bit hilarious but also very sad. The bad part is that women are less seeking to mate, since it is not in their modus operandi to hook up with guys in clubs anymore. Not a big issue for me, however the club freebies are almost non-existant and the bar for getting laid is set a bit higher. This does not mean that seduction is more difficult per.se., just that the "easy girls" have become harder to get. On the other hand, the more difficult girls have been easier to get. I remember back in the days you would end up dealing with girls who knew how to deal with players and would start a frame-war in no time: with tons of tests and jealousy plots. I DO NOT miss those times. However I do miss that occasional "easy 7" when I am not in shape or not feeling like putting in work.

-Teevster

What @POB and @Teevster said is so true it is not even funny. For a young guy like me (21M), I feel so sad and confused sometimes. I have not seen anyone in my age group that even actively tries to learn proper seduction and once in a blue moon when I see a guy trying to pick up a girl at a party, it is so painful to watch. (Disclaimer here: I'm not dissing the guy trying to do the pick up because I know I'm no better myself but I'm just putting it here as a factual statement)

Everyone around my age seems to only be talking about video games and complaining about life nowadays. They all say they are so tired and bored and too many assignments, etc. There is not even any mention about getting excited and having fun with girls. (Another disclaimer: I did do Engineering at university so my view is going to be more skewed than others, but the general idea still stands)

I have just recently moved to the biggest city in New Zealand. Last weekend, I went out to a bar in the city centre and all the guys that were there were at least 25+, who all has decent money and go to the gym and buy nice clothes. All the women were in groups of 3+ people and they were all very high energy and sat in a closed formation. So, I just sat at the bar, thinking: "Well, shit". I still ended up spending a few hours there, enjoying my cocktail and met a nice 29 years old lady towards the end, so it was not too bad. Regarding the lady, we didn't get anywhere but talk. I don't know if the age gap was a problem for her, or my fundamentals were too low, or I didn't execute techniques correctly. My skill level is too low to be able to pinpoint what I did wrong. I do know that my conversations were all over the place. I tried to apply some of the techniques in Chase's book (How to Make Girls Chase) to bring in implicit value and not answer questions directly, but the 4 years of engineering at uni just made my brain spat out information. I also did tried to initiate some touching (asked about her nail polish and held her hand), but she retracted it after 3 seconds. Finally, I did a last ditch attempt and offered to walk her home, which she politely declined. Honestly, my whole attempt was clunky af (laugh cry).

Anyway, too much ranting haha. Would some of you masters (@uriel @Train @Vision @Skills @Teevster @Warped Mindless @Bismarck and more) be so kind to guide me to on my journey become a skilled seducer? How do I get better? Should I read more? Should I watch videos? Should I keep developing things in Chase's book? How do I do all of 'this' as a young guy who just started a job and doesn't have that much bucks in the bank? I don't have a problem with doing things solo, but sometimes I just don't know where to go and the unsupportive environment around me doesn't help. In addition, do you know if any member on this forum is in New Zealand, by chance?
 
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POB

Chieftan
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tribal-elder
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435
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South America
How do I get better? Should I read more? Should I watch videos? Should I keep developing things in Chase's book? How do I do all of 'this' as a young guy who just started a job and doesn't have that much bucks in the bank? I don't have a problem with doing things solo, but sometimes I just don't know where to go and the unsupportive environment around me doesn't help. In addition, do you know if any member on this forum is in New Zealand, by chance?
- pick one seduction topic at a time and work on that until it becomes second nature. BTW, you answered this question in your own post, so start ASAP to improve conversational skills (tip: when on a date, listen more than you talk and learn interesting probing questions that spark attraction and move things forward...shut your mouth and let her talk about herself!).

- if you have to choose between chasing pussy and making money, go make money. Building the bank trumps ass chasing any day of the year. Just be organized, apply time management techniques and use your spare time to practice seduction.

- to improve your sexual prowess, get together with an older girl and stick with her for a while. Don't be discouraged by the age gap, there are a lot of cougars out there who just want to hook up with young lads. Be her boyfriend for a while if you like her, just don't commit long term and never say you love her (because at your age you definitely need a lot of variety and can't commit, even if you think you can).

- learn to have fun with your blunders. Every great seducer has a handful of bad stories to share. Accept it as part of the journey. Remember: bad blunder = great lesson.

- go to the field, sarge and come back home to write down what you did, how you felt, sticking points, etc. Ask/read/watch things about that specific topic.

- Pick one type of game and learn it before moving to another one.

- start a journal!!!

Hope that helps, and congrats on your choice!
Also don't feel sad or confused, you are not alone on this path.
We are far and few, but we are still here.

(Fuck the world and fuck what society wants, being a seducer rocks!)
 

uriel

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
974
Another great tip is be vary attentive to what other guys do that work.
There is always someone you know who knows how to do well with girls… many of these naturals won’t like talking about seduction or won’t be able to explain how they do what they do… but observe and analyze.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
2,621
Location
South Florida
Hi everyone! Sorry for "thread crashing" but there are so many masters here and I couldn't resist it. I have only just signed up to the forum 2 days ago.





What @POB and @Teevster said is so true it is not even funny. For a young guy like me (21M), I feel so sad and confused sometimes. I have not seen anyone in my age group that even actively tries to learn proper seduction and once in a blue moon when I see a guy trying to pick up a girl at a party, it is so painful to watch. (Disclaimer here: I'm not dissing the guy trying to do the pick up because I know I'm no better myself but I'm just putting it here as a factual statement)

Everyone around my age seems to only be talking about games and complaining about life nowadays. They all say they are so tired and bored and too many assignments, etc. There is not even any mention about getting excited and having fun with girls. (Another disclaimer: I did do Engineering at university so my view is going to be more skewed than others, but the general idea still stands)

I have just recently moved to the biggest city in New Zealand. Last weekend, I went out to a bar in the city centre and all the guys that were there were at least 25+, who all has decent money and go to the gym and buy nice clothes. All the women were in groups of 3+ people and they were all very high energy and sat in a closed formation. So, I just sat at the bar, thinking: "Well, shit". I still ended up spending a few hours there, enjoying my cocktail and met a nice 29 years old lady towards the end, so it was not too bad. Regarding the lady, we didn't get anywhere but talk. I don't know if the age gap was a problem for her, or my fundamentals were too low, or I didn't execute techniques correctly. My skill level is too low to be able to pinpoint what I did wrong. I do know that my conversations were all over the place. I tried to apply some of the techniques in Chase's book (How to Make Girls Chase) to bring in implicit value and not answer questions directly, but the 4 years of engineering just made my brain spat out information. I also did tried to initiate some touching (asked about her nail polish and held her hand), but she retracted it after 3 seconds. Finally, I did a last ditch attempt and offered to walk her home, which she politely declined. Honestly, my whole attempt was clunky af (laugh cry).

Anyway, too much ranting haha. Would some of you masters (@uriel @Train @Vision @Skills @Teevster @Warped Mindless @Bismarck and more) be so kind to guide me to on my journey become a skilled seducer? How do I get better? Should I read more? Should I watch videos? Should I keep developing things in Chase's book? How do I do all of 'this' as a young guy who just started a job and doesn't have that much bucks in the bank? I don't have a problem with doing things solo, but sometimes I just don't know where to go and the unsupportive environment around me doesn't help. In addition, do you know if any member on this forum is in New Zealand, by chance?
The most difficult is approach anxiety... work on the newbie assignment approach anxiety drills, and then take one method or book field test and journalise... taking action most important as you also work on your fundamentals gym, fashion, posture, voice, grooming....
 

WorldlyGoldenViper

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 7, 2021
Messages
12
- pick one seduction topic at a time and work on that until it becomes second nature. BTW, you answered this question in your own post, so start ASAP to improve conversational skills (tip: when on a date, listen more than you talk and learn interesting probing questions that spark attraction and move things forward...shut your mouth and let her talk about herself!).

- if you have to choose between chasing pussy and making money, go make money. Building the bank trumps ass chasing any day of the year. Just be organized, apply time management techniques and use your spare time to practice seduction.

- to improve your sexual prowess, get together with an older girl and stick with her for a while. Don't be discouraged by the age gap, there are a lot of cougars out there who just want to hook up with young lads. Be her boyfriend for a while if you like her, just don't commit long term and never say you love her (because at your age you definitely need a lot of variety and can't commit, even if you think you can).

- learn to have fun with your blunders. Every great seducer has a handful of bad stories to share. Accept it as part of the journey. Remember: bad blunder = great lesson.

- go to the field, sarge and come back home to write down what you did, how you felt, sticking points, etc. Ask/read/watch things about that specific topic.

- Pick one type of game and learn it before moving to another one.

- start a journal!!!

Hope that helps, and congrats on your choice!
Also don't feel sad or confused, you are not alone on this path.
We are far and few, but we are still here.

(Fuck the world and fuck what society wants, being a seducer rocks!)
Amazing! Thank you @POB for all those information. I'll make a note of everything and start a journal as you have advised.

When you say "pick one type of game", do you mean "day/night game" or "club/street/cafe/park game" or is it something different? What are the few common options for the "type of game" that we usually discuss?

Absolutely love that last statement of yours in the brackets! :cool:

Another great tip is be vary attentive to what other guys do that work.
There is always someone you know who knows how to do well with girls… many of these naturals won’t like talking about seduction or won’t be able to explain how they do what they do… but observe and analyze.
@uriel Okay, I will keep that in mind, thanks. There is one guy that I know who is considered to be good with girls but the girls that he attracts wouldn't be my choice. I'll go and make more friends, especially now that I'm in a new city, so I can find someone that I can observe.

The most difficult is approach anxiety... work on the newbie assignment approach anxiety drills, and then take one method or book field test and journalise... taking action most important as you also work on your fundamentals gym, fashion, posture, voice, grooming....
@Skills Thanks, yes, I have seen the thread with the newbie assignment. I will do that, focusing on the approach drills.

When you say "method or book", are you referring to what you have said here below?
The reason why models is a good book is cause is the best book on one of the main problems with newer guys which is "onitis, neediness, friendzone" so no matter what is your game style it will address those 3 main issues, specially if you have an ltr, which most guys in the game will get at beginning stages and struggle big time... Which is what i recommend as "inner game"

as WIA says what is your goal for example, if is about the community: "the game" "1000 Tiny Failures" "Get laid of Die Trying" that is community and members and inspirational in general...

if is about indirect "mystery method and his book "the mystery method" and most of his former students book follow that pattern

if is natural game: "Vin di carlo" The attraction code.

if is more loud club: 60 yoc

sex talk: teevester (stuff chase blog)

relationships/break ups: chase (chase blog)

if is humor in seduction: double your dating david d.

if is dancing on clubs: where is the mirror? my stuff...

if is texting/online: pwf probably or my archives here..

if is nlp: a lot of guys play with rickers (i think that is the name)

poly stuff.- caleb jobs main book

^most of the books are pretty much outdated but are still useful, which is why you still may need to write a journal and be active and as wm says just post your sticking points.... Game is fluid, environment changes (for example gaming during corona), technology changes, generational changes... most of those books are written for generation x is not the same gaming generation x than gaming generation z, fundamentally same stuff but there are multiple societal changes is not the same a book about war during napoleon, ww2, iraq war etc... different wars in different time periods...

i would avoid red pill stuff though the rational male you can read but the only thing i find useful in that book is the concept (of dudes feeling that the more they do they are building some type of emotional bank account therefore women owe you) other than that, i would be very careful reading that stuff can take you to a dark path.

So pick one from the list above, field test and keep a journal? Actually @POB and @Skills, is there a particular way of keeping a journal that you recommend?
 

POB

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
435
Location
South America
Sounds like an ideal wingman, or vice-a-versa, so you can see him work and I bet he probably won't be into the girls your after so it's a win win as you're not in competition
Yes, this is key too.
Even so it's best to develop the habit to go out alone.

When you say "pick one type of game", do you mean "day/night game" or "club/street/cafe/park game" or is it something different? What are the few common options for the "type of game" that we usually discuss?
Day/Night/Online
Always best to use online as supplemental, unless on a really bad streak or if in a rush to start a roster (or during the winter, etc).
Also remember that December is usually a crap month to sarge (xmas, family season, BF season, cold weather, etc).
 

Derek da man

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jan 24, 2020
Messages
188
Even so it's best to develop the habit to go out alone.
Personally I always go out alone - often meet people I know, but I go where I want and suit myself.

I do enjoy watching other guys working the room and how women respond to them, only thing I can't often do is hear the more individual conversations that go on, hence my suggestion of having a wingman sometimes, but it mustn't become a crutch that you can't work without one.

I've never come accross anyone who annalyses and works on their performance in the way guys on here do so can't really have constructive conversations - if I did come accross someone locally it would be fun to go out with them and critique each others performance.
 

ph40

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2021
Messages
118
I couldn't agree with this more. No girl worries about being a 'slut' anymore, at least when she's with me I am very deniable dick because I'm older and never in social circle. Women are so horny these days. Any women that see me out with a younger, hot girl are jealous it's not them as they sit with their bitchy friends drinking coffee or cosmos. One example was this ltr side-piece I had, lived with 2 other girls [2 story apt] and they'd have friends over but the two girls didn't want my girl having me over. They were jealous they weren't getting the sexual attention she was [even though both were attractive] -- there was never any drama btw me and the other girls who often had their friends over later than myself. I was always impeccably dressed and never had a remotely unpleasant convo with them, we never even hung out in the living room, just in my girl's room.

I literally haven't gotten shit from another guy in 15+ years now. Even service people who might have acted weirdly to screw up your game in the past are generally supportive now.

You encountered that in the past where random service people would try to act weird and screw up your game? How strange.
 

DonGately

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Messages
141
You encountered that in the past where random service people would try to act weird and screw up your game? How strange.
I feel like it was probably a NYC thing in the past. Like, the bartender [male or female] knows the girl, she's had a few drinks but *not* drunk and they'd occasionally try to cockblock. Maybe they had the hots for the girl themselves, right? But only do it in a subtle way.
 
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