Social norms and daygame: Fine line between weird and well "daygame".

Indian Race Troll (IRT)

Cro-Magnon Man
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So lately, I have been more invested in daygame as you can tell from my journal. At times though, I do get approach anxiety from thinking that this shit is fucking weird. I don't mean it is necessarily wrong but just more abnormal and really out of the box. You really make yourself vulnerable to not just rejections but if you do it in the same area, just an unwanted audience.

But I am losing it on the fine line between respecting social norms and doing daygame, especially direct.

I literally do not see anyone but bums and aggressive minorities who obviously look low class (borderline ghetto and catcalling) doing this. All this "hi I thought you were cute" stuff, I do not see any normal person or normal dude actually doing this and cannot fathom how girls would not be freaked out. It just seems so intrusive.

I have seen too many creepy PUAs end up in jail (like that muslim dude in Scotland) that I know I have to be careful.

Not getting a reputation as "that guy" in an area.

Like I live in NYC but it is still a blue state and a "liberal" city. My issue is that I mainly cold approach in the same areas after work, usually near where I live. I just started a month ago but I wonder the risks of being seen as "that guy".

I have so far not been too direct to actually walk up to girls and approach, I approach as we are walking in the same direction or happen to be at a stoplight.
 

Zanardi

Space Monkey
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I'll put it in another way:

I love soccer. For me, it's God's greatest gift to humanity. However, soccer fans have a bad rep for being violent and not very educated.

I am also a lecturer and I am everything but uneducated. But I still love soccer. How do I solve this apparent conflict? Being myself and mentioning my passion for soccer later. Then, nobody can peg me as a violent, uneducated fan, but as a cool, educated fan.

Keep approaching and don't think about the others. The way you put it, you should have no competition.
 

YS.

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Hey man, I don't know why but I run into you a lot when I'm researching about my problems on the forum.

I literally have the same 2 issues around daygame, especially the direct kind thus have been more interested in the more indirect (read: socially acceptable) forms of it. The people I've been looking into are Adam Lyonns, Alex (of old RSD fame), Valentino Kohen and old school Neil Strauss. Alex and VK do a more direct form of indirect, AL and NS do a more indirect (excuse based) version of the indirect.

I am also very interested in how people frame this in their heads. Most people I've seen doing direct daygame are "daygamers". IE: Guys who just do this shit all the time, social outcasts, horny college kids, or at best Sigma males. (Cool, lone wolf kinda guys)

With people with jobs and careers that are trying to integrate to society it's way too much on the IDGAF spectrum of the social conditioning scale in my limited opinion.

There is a balance between socially acceptable behavior that's on the edge and fearful social conditioning to keep people in their box and it's tricky to find. I think you ought to go over a few times to fully find the boundaries of the environment because fearful conditioning could also create a lot of bs excuses. Sometimes you don't know what is truly uncalibrated and what is just your fear, your lack of state, messing with you.

As I've said, I'd be happy to see lawyers/business-people/financiers/etc. who do direct daygame near their work and how they frame it.
 
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DarkKnight

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You guys worry WAYYY too much. I daygame regularly at the same places ,Places that are not even close to the anonymosity and population density which New York has and never ever get into any kind of issue. The only things I encounter are jealous guys who try to amog me or destroy my frame because they have seen my succes in the past and cannot even start a conversation. But fuck them, I put them in their place if I have to. Oh Pry for someone who has gotten laid a lot you really worry about pretty much everything.
 

Michal

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The safest way is to kind of prepare the for the approach before you actually approach. Just smilying at her is enough in some scenarios. After that, this social norm goes out the window if she smiles back. It is sort of a handshake. Sometimes, if they smiled back but were a bit far away, I just waved them over and they came to me. The situations where it feels weird is when she did not even make eye contact with me and I am just stopping her. And if you do not look like a bum or a homeless dude, they will think you are. Unless you make them feel that way. I have never had much problems when both of us acknowledged one another first. So I usually fucked it up later :)
 

uriel

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I think most schools of seduction are terrible at teaching daygame approach.

They favor direct opening indiscriminately and tell the students to basically ignore their social instincts... dude, your instincts are there for a reason.
Most "PUAs" I see do direct approach make it look like a train wreck that they later salvage.

I see no reason to go for all that trouble and akwardness.

In my opinion, daygame opening is something you want to do indirect until you reach a certain level of finesse in your conversations that you know you can open with something verbally bold and balance it with your nonverbals (calm atittude, slow body language, suave voice tonality...).
 
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Mr.Rob

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Lol it's just giving girls compliments, how bad can it go?

That guy that got jailed was kissing underage girls and being aggressive with girls that weren't interested.

I've done some crazy day game approaches (and stupid approaches at that), including pretend choking a girl i just met in an entrance to a shop, running up from girls from behind and leaping into the air on front of them, and trying to kiss girls within the first 60 seconds of conversation (and was successful believe it or not in pulling off all those things.. except the kiss in 60 seconds).

Never ran into any issues in my day game career with any of the stuff you worry about.

If your giving girls compliments and are socially attuned to if their weirded out you'll be just fine.

Who cares what some random people on the Street think.
 

YS.

Modern Human
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Lol it's just giving girls compliments, how bad can it go?

That guy that got jailed was kissing underage girls and being aggressive with girls that weren't interested.

I've done some crazy day game approaches (and stupid approaches at that), including pretend choking a girl i just met in an entrance to a shop, running up from girls from behind and leaping into the air on front of them, and trying to kiss girls within the first 60 seconds of conversation (and was successful believe it or not in pulling off all those things.. except the kiss in 60 seconds).

Never ran into any issues in my day game career with any of the stuff you worry about.

If your giving girls compliments and are socially attuned to if their weirded out you'll be just fine.

Who cares what some random people on the Street think.

Daygame isn't just anonymous busy street game though. I like to go to nice lounges, coffee shops or cool bookstores inside luxury malls. I have done some crazy shit on the street too, but that shit is mostly anonymous and you mostly don't care what people think. But in some locations you should care what people think, for example the best lounge at the bottom floor of the nicest plaza building in your city. Now, how much you should care and how much you should be free and don't give a fuck, I haven't found the balance yet; but I definitely don't think you shouldn't care at all.

I agree that the guys who got into real legal issues all did some insanely uncalibrated and pushy shit that's beyond any normal pickup guy would do. Even the guys who were unfairly got into legal issues like Denton said so himself he partially caused it due to his extreme asshole behavior.
 

Mr.Rob

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But in some locations you should care what people think, for example the best lounge at the bottom floor of the nicest plaza building in your city. Now, how much you should care and how much you should be free and don't give a fuck, I haven't found the balance yet; but I definitely don't think you shouldn't care at all.

Well my examples I gave were all pretty extreme to make a point. You shouldnt be doing extreme boundary pushing stuff in a really awesome venue you go to regularly (for daygame at least).

But you really shouldn't care at all what everyone is thinking about you, other than being an obvious spam approacher. Most people don't care that much about you and aren't paying attention anyways (you just think they are).

Your just stopping a girl and giving her a compliment. So long as your calibrated and not doing anything over the top extreme no reason to be worried in my experience.
 

Grand Pooba

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I literally do not see anyone but bums and aggressive minorities who obviously look low class (borderline ghetto and catcalling) doing this. All this "hi I thought you were cute" stuff

You cannot do this well and successfully without being an attractive, successful, and interesting looking man. This is different from the bums you talk about.


All this "hi I thought you were cute" stuff, I do not see any normal person or normal dude actually doing this and cannot fathom how girls would not be freaked out. It just seems so intrusive.

Other guys do not do this, yes, and that's the point and why it's so effective. Girls WANT to be approached by an attractive man who shows interest in them - they don't want to be approached by a slummy guy catcalling them, nor by a guy who isn't smooth. I could be wrong here, but I also think girls don't like slumming through online dating in general, unless they meet an attractive guy with a killer profile ;).

The trick for you is to figure out how to approach her smoothly. Indirect, or direct approaches, are both viable and good. Just depends on your style.
 

Fuck This

Cro-Magnon Man
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I think indirect daygame approaches that let you calibrate your approach to the woman's interest avoids a lot of these problems. A truly interested woman will drop hints that she wants to be asked out. You just need to read her mood and body language.

Direct approaches with no regard to peoples time and interest will be treated in the same way that street business solicitation. A firm verbal decline and then physical retaliation...
 

uriel

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I think indirect daygame approaches that let you calibrate your approach to the woman's interest avoids a lot of these problems. A truly interested woman will drop hints that she wants to be asked out. You just need to read her mood and body language.

Direct approaches with no regard to peoples time and interest will be treated in the same way that street business solicitation. A firm verbal decline and then physical retaliation...

Agree. You need to be tuned to the context (location & what is the girl doing) to successfully pull this out.

Direct openers are not tools to be used indiscriminately.
 

Grand Pooba

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Agree. You need to be tuned to the context (location & what is the girl doing) to successfully pull this out.

Direct openers are not tools to be used indiscriminately.
I think indirect daygame approaches that let you calibrate your approach to the woman's interest avoids a lot of these problems. A truly interested woman will drop hints that she wants to be asked out. You just need to read her mood and body language.

Direct approaches with no regard to peoples time and interest will be treated in the same way that street business solicitation. A firm verbal decline and then physical retaliation...

I've had a lot of success with direct openers, so I guess I disagree. I've never had a physical retaliation, not even once. This is after several thousand approaches (estimate 4000-5000), although maybe three women in that timeline could have gone that route. Lol.

The thing is if you go indirect, you have to express your interest and premise in other ways. So girls know you're interested in her, rather than some random stranger looking for directions, or a guy looking for a friend. So the indirect approach is "more roundabout" than direct, but either way can work.

At the end of the day, I think whatever approach type you do, it does need to be calibrated. I like doing indirect approaches in coffee shops for instance, but if I'm out on the street running to a meeting and only have a few minutes (and she's in a rush too in my city), often times she's not going to wait around for some indirect random conversation.
 
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Mr.Rob

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IME its always been about context to the situation (coffee shop or grocery store vs. street or bar/club) type of opener you should use with indirect vs direct.

Both have a time and a place, but direct can work great in a lot of situations or indirect-direct rather. I've very rarely if ever used true indirect game, but have used situational a number of times which is the most natural route albeit hard to manufacture in many situations.
 

greenleaf

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That guy that got jailed was kissing underage girls and being aggressive with girls that weren't interested.

I don't believe any girls were underage. The reports said 17, I believe. In the UK, 16 is actually legal (which is why I found it really unfair at the time that all the reports kept bringing age into it)

That case was so weird. From the details that were released, I was still unsure of what crime he had actually committed.
Hitting on legal aged (albeit young) girls, from what I could make out. 'The 17-year-old told jurors that the father-of-one called her “pretty” and made her feel “uncomfortable.” ''

I used to watch his infields, and he came across way more normal than most other PUA's that i've seen tbh! (which is why I found it all so hard to believe)

I can only imagine he was particularly aggressive in some sets (unlike any of the sets I saw). Still....a Jail sentence!!!???

I honestly think what happened to him could have happened to anyone running volume day game in the UK, outside of London! People really aren't as receptive to this stuff in the UK compared to say the US. Also the fact that he was Asian maybe played a role? (the system trying to make amends for the mistakes and uproar over the Asian grooming gangs etc?)
 
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Carousel

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But I am losing it on the fine line between respecting social norms and doing daygame, especially direct.

Well don't do direct then. And maybe get comfortable with having conversations with strangers that are not game-related before running game.

I literally do not see anyone but bums and aggressive minorities who obviously look low class (borderline ghetto and catcalling) doing this. All this "hi I thought you were cute" stuff, I do not see any normal person or normal dude actually doing this and cannot fathom how girls would not be freaked out. It just seems so intrusive.

Are you a bum? Are you an aggressive minority guy? Are you low class? Are you ghetto?

If the answer of all this is "No", why do you even think about it?
Would you react the same way to a well-dressed businessman talking to you as to a heroine-addicted bum talking to you?

I have seen too many creepy PUAs end up in jail (like that muslim dude in Scotland) that I know I have to be careful.

Are you creepy? If yes, learn to not be before doing game - applies to all kinds of game. if no, why do you even think about this?

Not getting a reputation as "that guy" in an area.

Then you go game places where your reputation does not matter - always a good idea.

Like I live in NYC but it is still a blue state and a "liberal" city.

Do you really think conservatives like PUAs preying on women better than liberals?

My issue is that I mainly cold approach in the same areas after work, usually near where I live. I just started a month ago but I wonder the risks of being seen as "that guy".

Again, if this bothers you, go somewhere else.
 

Kvothe

Cro-Magnon Man
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I always go direct, and I can say, with decent confidence, that what causes me to get rejected when am rejected is not the fact that I’m going direct. It’s usually either my vibe, or the girl isn’t interested in me (either already taken, or just doesn’t like the way I look).
 

Zanardi

Space Monkey
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what causes me to get rejected when am rejected is not the fact that I’m going direct. It’s usually either my vibe, or the girl isn’t interested in me (either already taken, or just doesn’t like the way I look).

Same here. I daygame in almost the same places and have no reputation problems. Lately I had been changing areas to experiment and see what is waiting for me there.
 

Indian Race Troll (IRT)

Cro-Magnon Man
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I've been thinking now that instead of going out to do x number of approaches in a given area, why not just go out to a rich area of the city full of quality and then approach as you feel? Like get a feel for it, learn to read the environment better, and then approach naturally almost. Not proactively going up to chicks like a PUA but picking up on vibes in the area and then when the time is right, approaching......
 

Tr1cky

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@Oh Pry - yes that's what you do when you have game. You go about your day and when you see an attractive girl you approach her. However, it doesnt seem like you have game (not an insult) so you are going to need to develop game before you will be successful making a couple sniper approaches here and there.

The fastest way to develop game is to mass approach (as "unnattural" as that feels). So I would work to get over that feeling of unease rather quickly. I would recommend night game, imo it is nearly impossible to get good at game via day game only. But I'm sure you already have an excuse why you cant night game.
 
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