Socializing Societal Roles: Men are supposed to be ACTIVE towards women!

[POB]

I don't care how much society changes, or how much women get more open and sexualized...one thing will NEVER change:

- MEN ARE SUPPOSED TO TAKE AN ACTIVE ROLE TOWARDS SEDUCTION AND SEX

I won't get into a debate about how indirect you can be in-field...this is not the focus of this thread.
My point is, as much as seduction has changed in the last 10-15 years, one thing HAS always stayed the same:
- You gotta make the first move!

One of these days I was watching a react video about a 40ish year old Karen complaining about Bumble.
Her point was that women opening men ONLINE was an abhorrent of a situation!
Just think about it: she was complaining that men were "off the hook" to make the first move on a damn app lol.
And this takes us to my next point:

Online will always be inferior to live game because of the PASSIVE ROLE you are forced to take!
You cannot exert any masculine presence until you get a first date and it makes a HUGE difference!

It's been almost 2 years since my last online adventure.
Covid issues aside, what I've sensed since then is that my sex drive, reactions and sexualization have never been more raw, especially when I'm around women (including my main).
And the main reason for that is that I'm forced to be out in the open all the time and play a masculine role.
There are no cop-outs, no back-up plan...you have to go out and do it live!

Porn/IG/OnlyFans has also that same shitty effect...with the aggravation of it not being real sex, but only a projection of a fantasy that will never come true in real life!
Am I against porn? Of course not.
I just save it for very very special occasions.

MEN WHO PLAY AN ACTIVE ROLE ARE ALWAYS AHEAD OF THE COMPETITION

#Me Too, second wave feminism and LGBT movements have been trying to destroy masculinity since the dawn of ages.
Even so, this is not an excuse for us to not always play an active role and go after the women we want.
Society can do whatever the fuck it wants: it will never erase our primal feelings.

Think about rejection.

You go out, cold-approach and is "rejected".
Does it feel bad? Maybe, especially if you are uncalibrated and not getting results for a certain time.
But if you approach with purpose, and a little bit of game knowledge, I'm pretty sure you gonna feel good about yourself for having the guts to do what you wanted!
This is because you played the active role and pleased your masculine self.
You KNOW other guys are too scared to do that.
Buy not YOU.
Nobody can take that away!

Now think about online rejection.
Does it make you feel bad? Maybe.
But the odds are stacked against you right from the get go.
You simply don't have a choice but to play PASSIVE.
And passive is the more feminine role, so do the math.

Looks maximizing, getting in shape, staying healthy, learning game....all of this helps a lot!
Heck, once you get older (past 35) it's almost mandatory!
But only if you accept that, born a man, you gotta take action in your hands.
No amount of coaching or advice is gonna do the trick if you don't move and stay active!

Just my two cents.

~POB

 

[DarkKnight]

Online "game" is downright depressing... There is almost nothing you can really control. You cannot punish/reward, use preselection or anything.

This is because you played the active role and pleased your masculine self. -> Agreed to this... even in real life it really shocks me how the same guys keep going the same friendzone route trying to please a woman instead of going for the kill.

 

[Darius]

Recently was thinking exactly the same thing. I think it goes beyond women. Social circles, career, heck even social media presence.

You notice the active people, the people that make things happen, that organise others, and produce rather than consume, are the winners. Never the passive ones or the consumers.

Hector put it very well in one of his videos - when you take the passive role, you sacrifice control for pleasure. But that does not put you in the lead or bring you what you want, and so as a man that is not your role. Yours is to make things happen.

 

[POB]

Online "game" is downright depressing... There is almost nothing you can really control. You cannot punish/reward, use preselection or anything.

Exactly!
Plus it has just become another platform for women to get free attention.
It's social media+
I'm staying away from it as much as I can (probably forever)

This is because you played the active role and pleased your masculine self. -> Agreed to this... even in real life it really shocks me how the same guys keep going the same friendzone route trying to please a woman instead of going for the kill.

You don't need to love the hunt...but you sure gotta learn it
It's really impressive how much we are slaves of online things!

I took a personal challenge and stood away from social media for 2 whole weeks.
The difference it made on my focus, drive, concentration and presence in the moment was astonishing!!!
The same goes for online game...it's night and day when you just give it up and focus on real things, real people and real interactions.

 

[POB]

Recently was thinking exactly the same thing. I think it goes beyond women. Social circles, career, heck even social media presence.

You notice the active people, the people that make things happen, that organise others, and produce rather than consume, are the winners. Never the passive ones or the consumers.

Hector put it very well in one of his videos - when you take the passive role, you sacrifice control for pleasure. But that does not put you in the lead or bring you what you want, and so as a man that is not your role. Yours is to make things happen.

Couldn't agree more!!!

 

[Regal Tiger]

I'll be honest, I guess I'm in the opposite side of things from you guys. I couldn't care less about being in the active role or anything (however I absolutely agree with you that it is a man's role, not the point I'm debating). Sure, there are some hits of adrenaline which is nice, and there are some feel-goods associated to it. But I only care about the end of the day results.

When I first got into seduction I tried day game and online game. Finding that online game suited me better and eventually ended up mastering it more or less. Now, because of life crap I can't use it so I'm stuck going back into the noobie phase of day game. It's a bit of a let down, honestly. Part of it was just living in small towns so day game is non-existent, and now I'm in a bigger area so my opinion very well could change once I get rolling (and I also understand the general GC sentiment that you get hotter girls offline). But I honestly wish I could wrack up some quick and easy wins through online.

In a coffee shop right now and there was a girl who looked at me a few times (may have been a reaction to me looking at her now that I think about it, not sure). Made an excuse to approach indirectly and she seemed a bit uncomfortable so it never went past the first question and I just let it go. Now there's another one in front of me who is completely closed off with many fuck-off signals. I like the looks of her more than the first girl, but I just don't want to get up and approach without an AI.

Guess I'm lazy? I dunno



But it does remind me of one of BD's articles about the Thrill of The Hunt Types vs. the Pleasure Types. Basically, one enjoys the hunt for new women whereas the second type just wants to get it in and doesn't care if it's the same girl over and over. I've always been the second. In an ideal world for me I'd have 1 or 2 girls and then never join the game again. But that's astronomically unrealistic (and I know that, so we don't need to go down that road).

But yeah, figured I'd throw in my personal 2cents from the other side of things in case anyone else feels similarly

 

[Skills]

Talking about bumble, who I consider best dating app. Best quality of women... some losers are suing bumble cause it "discriminates". The point of bumble is genius, women as much as guys that have no clue about women think they love all that attention, get overwhelmed by having 1000s of pms and being bombarded with messages.... all women do with bumble is say hi or hey, you still have to game them... I think all games are valid, as long as you combine them all... I think though, when you get momentum in cold approach, you will probably drop off online cause there is not enough time for many leads...

 

[Skills]

I'll be honest, I guess I'm in the opposite side of things from you guys. I couldn't care less about being in the active role or anything (however I absolutely agree with you that it is a man's role, not the point I'm debating). Sure, there are some hits of adrenaline which is nice, and there are some feel-goods associated to it. But I only care about the end of the day results.

When I first got into seduction I tried day game and online game. Finding that online game suited me better and eventually ended up mastering it more or less. Now, because of life crap I can't use it so I'm stuck going back into the noobie phase of day game. It's a bit of a let down, honestly. Part of it was just living in small towns so day game is non-existent, and now I'm in a bigger area so my opinion very well could change once I get rolling (and I also understand the general GC sentiment that you get hotter girls offline). But I honestly wish I could wrack up some quick and easy wins through online.

In a coffee shop right now and there was a girl who looked at me a few times (may have been a reaction to me looking at her now that I think about it, not sure). Made an excuse to approach indirectly and she seemed a bit uncomfortable so it never went past the first question and I just let it go. Now there's another one in front of me who is completely closed off with many fuck-off signals. I like the looks of her more than the first girl, but I just don't want to get up and approach without an AI.

Guess I'm lazy? I dunno



But it does remind me of one of BD's articles about the Thrill of The Hunt Types vs. the Pleasure Types. Basically, one enjoys the hunt for new women whereas the second type just wants to get it in and doesn't care if it's the same girl over and over. I've always been the second. In an ideal world for me I'd have 1 or 2 girls and then never join the game again. But that's astronomically unrealistic (and I know that, so we don't need to go down that road).

But yeah, figured I'd throw in my personal 2cents from the other side of things in case anyone else feels similarly

That was bd silly rationalization, since he couldn't cold approach.... but anyways, results is what matters but you can hit above your smv with cold approach...

 

[POB]

In a coffee shop right now and there was a girl who looked at me a few times (may have been a reaction to me looking at her now that I think about it, not sure). Made an excuse to approach indirectly and she seemed a bit uncomfortable so it never went past the first question and I just let it go. Now there's another one in front of me who is completely closed off with many fuck-off signals. I like the looks of her more than the first girl, but I just don't want to get up and approach without an AI.

Guess I'm lazy? I dunno

As a guy who's been very successful online (triple digit lays) I think everybody can have a preferred cup of tea without spoiling anybody's fun.
OTOH this was always my beef with what BD and other online guys preach: they say online is easier/faster than live game (not true), so it's all that you need (not true also). Even when you get really good at it and use automation, it's still very very time consuming and boring and results can vary a lot too.

But the point is not generating a debate between cold-approach vs online or TOTH vs POS.
That horse has been beaten to death more than enough.
The point is, if you stick exclusively with online without cold-approaching (at least a little),
you are missing a key basic component of what makes you a man.

This was the whole point of the thread.
Online is not gonna save you when that blazing hottie pops out in front of you out of the blue.
(your own story is a perfect example of what I'm saying).

 

[POB]

Talking about bumble, who I consider best dating app. Best quality of women... some losers are suing bumble cause it "discriminates". The point of bumble is genius, women as much as guys that have no clue about women think they love all that attention, get overwhelmed by having 1000s of pms and being bombarded with messages.... all women do with bumble is say hi or hey, you still have to game them... I think all games are valid, as long as you combine them all... I think though, when you get momentum in cold approach, you will probably drop off online cause there is not enough time for many leads...

I met the main on Bumble, so go figure.

 

[Darius]

But it does remind me of one of BD's articles about the Thrill of The Hunt Types vs. the Pleasure Types. Basically, one enjoys the hunt for new women whereas the second type just wants to get it in and doesn't care if it's the same girl over and over. I've always been the second. In an ideal world for me I'd have 1 or 2 girls and then never join the game again. But that's astronomically unrealistic (and I know that, so we don't need to go down that road).

I'm the same! Give me 2 hot women to fuck and make me food forever, and my life pursuits with respect to seduction are done ahah. I find leading to be tiresome whenever it's not related to seduction.

But if I don't do it nobody does. I end up alone at home, twiddling my fingers in the hope that *somebody* might come and rescue me. That's way worse than picking up the phone and being active imo.

What I've also found is that the more dominant you are in general, the less people invite you to stuff, and the more they expect you to organise. It's a feedback loop. Nowadays if I ask people what they're up to they ask me if I'm planning anything... lol.

 

[Regal Tiger]

That was bd silly rationalization, since he couldn't cold approach.... but anyways, results is what matters but you can hit above your smv with cold approach

Very well could be, I don't pretend to know but I do see stuff like that in people like me and my cousin for example.


As for the cold approach thing, also heavily agree. I'm just saying that I don't personally get that hit of feeling like a man or anything from it. I view it more as a necessity

 

[Regal Tiger]

As a guy who's been very successful online (triple digit lays) I think everybody can have a preferred cup of tea without spoiling anybody's fun.
OTOH this was always my beef with what BD and other online guys preach: they say online is easier/faster than live game (not true), so it's all that you need (not true also). Even when you get really good at it and use automation, it's still very very time consuming and boring and results can vary a lot too.

I'd argue that it's faster because I'm personally better at it than any other form. But that's coming from someone who is great at one but not ther other. Very well could be the case, I dunno

Oh and I also agree that it's not all you need. Day game can definitely get you better because of everything else you can bring to the table. I do believe it's not as bad as some people say though.

Personally though, I always found the system/automation parts of it a lot more fun (plus I enjoy photography anyways, so that probably plays into my perceptions of it as well as the fact that I'm a DG noob)


One thing I'll say that plays a big part of it as well: when I lived in Nashville I didn't bother much with online because I was picking up in dancing events.

But then when I had to leave again there wasn't anywhere to Daygame in these smaller Missouri areas, and since I hate the atmosphere of night game it wasn't an option either. Online was the only way.

But again, now I'm in a bigger area where there are places to daygame so who knows, maybe I'll change my mind about it. Especially when I get better at it.

But the point is not generating a debate between cold-approach vs online or TOTH vs POS.
That horse has been beaten to death more than enough.
The point is, if you stick exclusively with online without cold-approaching (at least a little),
you are missing a key basic component of what makes you a man.

Again, I agree with that point. I'm just saying I don't get that little 'hit' from it that you were talking about. There's an adrenaline spike that's enjoyable for sure (but then if that source of adrenaline doesn't pan out then there's a kind of letdown afterwards, meanwhile when I do things that don't work out, but there's also no adrenaline spike I'm less concerned about), but I could honestly live without that. I get my adrenaline spikes elsewhere. And another main point of yours is that people that take an active approach are better off than those who don't I agree with as well.

Most of your points I agree with, it's just a matter of enjoyment that I'm disagreeing with is all.

I guess you could sum it up as me avoiding the letdowns? Not sure on that one

This was the whole point of the thread.
Online is not gonna save you when that blazing hottie pops out in front of you out of the blue.
(your own story is a perfect example of what I'm saying).

Ahhh gotcha, if that's the main point of the thread then we're in agreement for sure. Again, for me, I just don't garner as much enjoyment out of taking an active approach towards anything. Instead I view it as something that's mandatory to do if you want to get anywhere with anything. But I don't enjoy the process, I only enjoy the results lol


EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION:
This was the part that I disagree with, at least for me:

Think about rejection.

You go out, cold-approach and is "rejected".
Does it feel bad? Maybe, especially if you are uncalibrated and not getting results for a certain time.
But if you approach with purpose, and a little bit of game knowledge, I'm pretty sure you gonna feel good about yourself for having the guts to do what you wanted!
This is because you played the active role and pleased your masculine self.
You KNOW other guys are too scared to do that.
Buy not YOU.
Nobody can take that away!

Now think about online rejection.
Does it make you feel bad? Maybe.
But the odds are stacked against you right from the get go.
You simply don't have a choice but to play PASSIVE.
And passive is the more feminine role, so do the math.

I don't feel good for taking action. I feel good for getting the result that I want. If I don't get the result that I want then 80% of the time I'm neutral and the other 20% of the time I feel bad.

But yeah, most of your other points I agree with:
1) people who take an active approach to just about anything in life have it better, generally speaking
2) men, by nature, are supposed to take an active approach. We are the 'penetrators of life' if you will
3) daygame gets you higher quality women, on average (exceptions always exist but usually prove the rule)

 

[Bismarck]

Great thread POB, it bears repeating!

Taking action with anything outside your comfort zone, such as risking rejection on the dancefloor by taking a girl’s hand to dance with her, makes you feel amazing afterwards.

 

[Skills]

Great thread POB, it bears repeating!

Taking action with anything outside your comfort zone, such as risking rejection on the dancefloor by taking a girl’s hand to dance with her, makes you feel amazing afterwards.

Come on, taking the girl hand is a no no! good point on the other stuff, (sorry for the minor derail):

4 – Grabbing or touching when opening. When you initially approach the girl, do not grab her hand or touch her. The only exception to this rule is when they play Latin music, or Latin beats, for example Shakira, Ricky Martin, Pit Bull, or reggaeton. After you are in the set and pass the social hook point, you should escalate incrementally a little at a time.

 

[Starboy]

I don't feel good for taking action. I feel good for getting the result that I want. If I don't get the result that I want then 80% of the time I'm neutral and the other 20% of the time I feel bad.

@Regal Tiger you know this is not the most productive mindset to have for pickup? You're mostly neutral which is fine ,but still some outcome dependence.

I feel the same way too and really only enjoy pickup if i'm at least progressing or getting some rusults. If i'm not doing well I might dislike it or even hate it. But i'll give myself some credit for leaving the house to take action instead of wasting the day in my bedroom.

I know you've been in pickup for a while so you're past the beginner stage which is probably why action itself doesn't invigorate you. But even then guys who last the longest in game and get the most success take some kind of pride or joy in what they do.

 

[Bismarck]

Come on, taking the girl hand is a no no! good point on the other stuff, (sorry for the minor derail):

To each his own Skills. Last night I took the hand no problem, and actually when I look back that’s how I always did it before in my dancefloor days.

But you’re the specialist so if you have another method, kudos!

Also wanted to add @POB that social media is like junk food. Bad for you and extremely addictive. I have to basically not check WhatsApp, Insta or Telegram during the working day so that I can stay productive, especially when working from home.

OTOH, they can be useful if used right.

 

[DarkKnight]

I want to add something. A lot of times when women are being wishy washy or passive like I tend to get impatient and I notice that things get awkward unnecessarily. For some reason I simply do not expect women to make the right decisions and you almost never know clearly where she is in her head. So I go for compliance and take action. At the very least it gives me room to focus on something else if no compliance instead of wonder where she is mentally at.

It is not about her when I take the lead.. it is mostly for me. To know what my position is, to know how to maneuvre.

Btw this ties in with Aleks piece about how we do not fear resistance, but use it as indication on how to calibrate.

 

[Regal Tiger]

@Regal Tiger you know this is not the most productive mindset to have for pickup? You're mostly neutral which is fine ,but still some outcome dependence.

Probably, but meh. The only thing that matters is results at the end of the day.

I feel the same way too and really only enjoy pickup if i'm at least progressing or getting some rusults. If i'm not doing well I might dislike it or even hate it. But i'll give myself some credit for leaving the house to take action instead of wasting the day in my bedroom.

Probably a healthier mindset

I know you've been in pickup for a while so you're past the beginner stage which is probably why action itself doesn't invigorate you. But even then guys who last the longest in game and get the most success take some kind of pride or joy in what they do.

I take pride and joy in successes as well as the knowledge itself. Learning something new invigorates me. Getting a result that I want invigorates me (a little)

As for sticking with it, I'm too stubborn and view it as too much of a necessity to quit lol (and there have been many, many times where I've wanted to quit)

 

[Skills]

Probably, but meh. The only thing that matters is results at the end of the day.

Probably a healthier mindset

I take pride and joy in successes as well as the knowledge itself. Learning something new invigorates me. Getting a result that I want invigorates me (a little)

As for sticking with it, I'm too stubborn and view it as too much of a necessity to quit lol (and there have been many, many times where I've wanted to quit)

I think as much as I love pob and most of the time we agreed a million %, the premise is a bit off in what defines masculinity and the premise of online per se is not taking and active role... let's say you let say want to improve your appearance for looking good in pictures that is an active role, you learn texting and some game knowledge, you learn how to date etc.... those are active roles, to your second point on results there is a book I recommend called the winning effect that makes that point... I think the main premise should be not to abandon cold approach

P.s. @Bismarck I pmed you my point not to be rude and derail the post