FR Soft closed too early?

[gameboy]

I had an interesting conversation in a coffee shop today. At the table to my right there were these two girls chatting. The one that sat further away, but was facing me, looked a bit older and not too attractive. The one sitting next to me, I couldn't see the face of because she had her back turned towards me. But I did like her high boots, as well as her long hair. And I absolutely loved her Argentinian accent as she talked.

At one point the older looking one took off toward the bathroom. I seized my opportunity and said to the girl (who's face I still hadn't seen yet): "You have such a beautiful Argentinian accent!" - She turned around to me with a big smile and hooked immediately. Asked me where I was from, how long I've been living here, complimented me on how well I speak the language. I said she speaks it pretty well too, which was a tease because it's her native language lol. She laughed at that a little, but not too excitedly. So it seems that the tease didn't land that well.

She was quite young and had a pretty face. We made some small talk, then she told me that she was going to start studying my native language next month.

So I offered her to practice with me if she wanted (I've dated several girls in the past that I met through language exchange). But either I made that offer too soon, or the age difference was too big (I'd guess she was early 20s by her face, though I can't be sure. Maybe 25 if I had to put a concrete guess in).

Her reply was a non-committal "Sure!", then she said "Well it's been nice talking to you." and she turned back to her table and toward her phone or whatever she was doing.

I did reopen once more asking her what part of Argentinia she was from. She told me, and I asked wherabouts it is. Just some small talk basically since she'd already shot down my offer to help. After another half minute or so her friend came back. So my girl said "it's been a pleasure" again and turned back toward her friend.

What did I do wrong here? Lack of qualification? Offered her to help too soon? I did it without thinking basically, since the opening was right there in the natural flow of conversation. But the offer seems to have backfired.

 

[gameboy]

Typed out the conversation from memory, before I forget.

Setup: We are sitting at adjacent tables, back against the window/wall of the cafeteria. It's the only row of tables (nothing before our feet except a narrow pedestrian street). I am facing away from the wall toward the street, She is sitting to my right, I think there was one chair free in between us. Initially she had her back to me at a 45 degree angle, since she was talking to her female friend who now went to the bathroom.

Me (in Spanish): "What a beautiful Argentinian accent you have!" (said with conviction, passionately)
Her (turning towards me, smiling): "Thank you! And you, where are you from?"
Me (leaning back into my chair, just turning my head slightly in her direction: "X country"
Her: "Oh really? Wow you speak Spanish really well!"
Me: "Thank you!"
Her: "I went to a (my countries nationality) school in Argentina... (gives name of the school), do you know it?"
Me: "Yeah, I've heard of it." (the name rung a bell but I didn't know much about that school)
Her: "How long have you been here for?"
Me: "X years"
Her: "Y years?" (misunderstood)
Me: "X"
Her: "Your Spanish is really good eh!"
Me: "Thanks a lot, yours too!" (teasing, since it's her native language but Argentinians have a very distinct, melodic way of talking)

At some point I turned my chair a little bit toward her so as to not have to crank my neck all the time speaking to her.

Her (small laugh, but didn't seem like the tease landed super well): "So what part of X country are you from?"
Me: "You won't know it! (name my town, then several others nearby until I hit one she's heard of"
Her: "Oh that place! Must be the most beautiful part of X, right?"
Me: "Well... I wish! Haha"
Her: "So in January I'm going to start taking classes in X language"
Me: "Oh wow! You can practice with me if you want!"
Her: "Sure! (noncommitally) Well it's been nice talking to you!" (turns away, back toward her table)
Me: "Nice to meet you too!"

(few seconds pause)

Me: "So what part of Argentinia are you from?"
Her: (gives city)
Me: "Oh, is that Buenos Aires?"
Her: "Close... just about X hours from Buenos Aires"
Me: "Wow, 'just' X hours? Okay maybe in Argentinia that's close, but in Europe in X hours you're like in the next country"
(her friend returns)
Her: "A pleasure!" (turns toward her friend and resumes chatting with her)
Me: "Same here!"

We all sat there for a bit longer. Some beggars came by, the first one was one she knew and she treated him warmly, offering him some food but he refused. Then another one that I chat with a little from time to time came by, I gave him a coin and exchanged a few words.

I went inside to pay, then said goodbye to the girls as I left. Both of them said goodbye back, but at that point the girl was on the phone with someone otherwise I'd have added "good luck with your language class" or something.

Seemed like a good opportunity, too bad it didn't go anywhere.

Fire away and roast me. I want to get better.

Why would she go from warm and engaged to disinterest in a hearbeat?

 

[Chase]

@gameboy,

She was quite young and had a pretty face. We made some small talk, then she told me that she was going to start studying my native language next month.

So I offered her to practice with me if she wanted (I've dated several girls in the past that I met through language exchange). But either I made that offer too soon, or the age difference was too big (I'd guess she was early 20s by her face, though I can't be sure. Maybe 25 if I had to put a concrete guess in).

At this point it was most likely just polite conversation.

e.g., subject of your language came up, she's studying it next month, she shares that info.

Rather than jumping right to offering a lot of your time to help out this girl you've just met for free (chasing), you'd be a lot better off simply asking a few questions: "Oh no way, where will you be studying?" "Why X language? Why not Italian or Korean?" "What do you plan to do once you master it? Gonna find your X language husband?" Etc.

Keep in mind at the language exchange, there's a mutual exchange of value implied: you'll teach her your language, she'll teach you hers. In this case, it sounds like you're just saying, "Hey, want me to help you out long-term for free?" to this girl you've just met and know nothing about. That's some pretty heavy investment on your part (too much!).

Gotta mind those investment scales.

Me (in Spanish): "What a beautiful Argentinian accent you have!" (said with conviction, passionately)
Her (turning towards me, smiling): "Thank you! And you, where are you from?"
Me (leaning back into my chair, just turning my head slightly in her direction: "X country"
Her: "Oh really? Wow you speak Spanish really well!"
Me: "Thank you!"
Her: "I went to a (my countries nationality) school in Argentina... (gives name of the school), do you know it?"
Me: "Yeah, I've heard of it." (the name rung a bell but I didn't know much about that school)
Her: "How long have you been here for?"
Me: "13 years"
Her: "3 years?"
Me: "13"
Her: "Your Spanish is really good eh!"
Me: "Thanks a lot, yours too!" (teasing, since it's her native language but Argentinians have a very distinct, melodic way of talking)

At some point I turned my chair a little bit toward her so as to not have to crank my neck all the time speaking to her.

Her (small laugh, but didn't seem like the tease landed super well): "So what part of X country are you from?"
Me: "You won't know it! (name my town, then several others nearby until I hit one she's heard of"
Her: "Oh that place! Must be the most beautiful part of X, right?"
Me: "Well... I wish! Haha"

So far, the entire conversation is lacking in anything that will communicate any kind of romantic dynamic or hook her into it.

It is pure small talk.

Unless there is strong initial/animal attraction there, this girl will not see you as anything other than someone being sociable with her.

Her: "So in January I'm going to start taking classes in X language"
Me: "Oh wow! You can practice with me if you want!"

Whoa.

Yep. This is hard chasing, brother.

Offering her a lot, that she has not earned.

Her: "Sure! (noncommitally) Well it's been nice talking to you!" (turns away, back toward her table)
Me: "Nice to meet you too!"

Yep. She was also like, "Whoa... wasn't expecting that!" and got outta there.

(few seconds pause)

Me: "So what part of Argentinia are you from?"
Her: (gives city)

She ran away from the conversation, man.

Gotta know when it's blown and to give it a rest.

Me: "Oh, is that Buenos Aires?"
Her: "Close... just about 5 hours from Buenos Aires"

All you're doing here is trading information.

It is not interesting and will not engage her.

Baiting vs. Trading Information

Most men who've been studying the social arts a little while come to realize, either consciously or instinctually, that coming out and telling women things about themselves unasked is an inferior means of conversing than first being asked for things before telling them. People start to come to...

www.girlschase.com

Seemed like a good opportunity, too bad it didn't go anywhere.

Fire away and roast me. I want to get better!

Well, two main things here are your conversation needs a serious upgrade, from "let's trade facts" to, instead, flirting and connecting with her.

And the other thing is you need to stop chasing girls and get them to chase you.

Try reading some of these articles on the initial conversation:

Conversation Example

An example conversation (and accompanying point-by-point breakdown) with a woman just met, from the bumpy beginning to a bit after reaching the conversation's "hook point." A few weeks back one of the readers here requested I get up an example of how a typical conversation goes for me with a new...

www.girlschase.com

Tactics Tuesdays: Opener Cycling

If at first your opener doesn’t hook, try, try again. That’s the basis of opener cycling: using more than one opener on one girl. Don’t just open weak then plow. Not every time you open a girl will she open with gusto. Sometimes all you get is a blasé response. She doesn't reject you, per se...

www.girlschase.com

Conversation Example: Repartee

This conversation example shows how to build flirtation, banter, and excitement in the initial Repartee Stage with a girl. Follow along & watch it unfold! A short while back, a reader requested the following: Chase, in HTMGC you say repartee is to be used after the opener and that it consists of...

www.girlschase.com

Some specific critique would be:

• If a girl says she is studying your language, you deep dive her on that ("Why'd you pick that one?" "What'll you do with it?") and potentially also chase frame with her / flirt ("Oh, good choice. Guys of my country are the sexiest, wouldn't you agree?"). You do NOT just offer to be her study buddy (huge time and energy commitment) unless she has really earned it already. Even if she is also offering to train you in her language, you need to be a bit skeptical ("Hmm, could be interesting!") unless the two of you have a solid connection already.
  
  
• If a girl ends the conversation with you, if you are going to ignore social protocol and immediately reengage her, you need to do it with something interruptive and GOOD. You do not reengage her just to trade more information.

So, e.g., bad :

HER: So in January I'm going to start taking lessons in German.​

​

YOU: Oh wow! You can practice with me if you want!​

​

HER: Sure! Nice talking with you! (immediately exits)​

Good :

HER: So in January I'm going to start taking lessons in German.​

​

YOU: Excellent choice. Why German?​

​

HER: My family is German. I want to get back to my roots!​

​

YOU: I see, I see. So once you learn German, you then move to Germany, get a German job, find a German husband, that the plan?​

​

HER: [laughs] Noooo, I mean, I haven't planned that far ahead!​

​

YOU: Right. Just going by gut instinct.​

​

HER: [laughs] Something like that.​

​

YOU: Something about German just calls to you.​

​

HER: [laughs] I guess! Why did you come to Argentina?​

See how rather than just ply her for facts, you are asking about her motivations, making man-woman assumptions about her, and flirting with her?

This is very, very different from a dry, platonic, fact-finding mission (which is boring).

Another example (on reengaging) --

This is bad :

HER: Well, nice talking to you!​

​

YOU: You too! (few seconds pause) So where're you from?​

But this is good :

HER: Well, nice talking to you!​

​

YOU: Yeah (pause) Oh wait! I totally forgot, but I am a part of this awesome language exchange club, everyone there is fantastic. If you're serious about learning German you'd really like it.​

Then instead of trying to chase after her for facts, you are hanging onto her to offer her value.

Anyway, just some pointers there, but yeah, man -- conversation needs some serious tidying up.

Focus on it -- it will make a BIG difference!

Make sure you've read this article too:

The Conversationalist

Conversation and the conversationalist: probably one of the most under-discussed topics in the social arts. What a pity. Conversation is part of the backbone upon which everything related to socializing is built upon, but in the 21st century that’s almost forgotten. You might go so far as to say...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

 

[gameboy]

Thanks a lot Chase! Going to read through those tonight.

Yeah I realize now that my offer was way too much, way too soon. That's a mistake I (hopefully) won't be making again.

As for conversation skills, I hear you. Gotta work on upgrading those!