Text conversation after first date

Dylweed

Space Monkey
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164
This was after we made plans after our first dare. 1st date we got wine and made out a few times, never got alone in private.

So part of me wants to hear critiques like how I could have done this better, but also I wanna know if anyone else just gets so annoyed by chicks like this and doesn't even think it's worth wasting any time dealing with them.


4:38pm
Me: ____! The weather forecast is looking awesome tomorrow lol, what time are you free?

5:18pm
Girl: Hi
Girl: Honestly I forgot so I made dinner plans tomorrow night

5:26pm
Me: Oh jeez lol can you get out of them?

8:59pm
Me: Or if not can you meet up before or after dinner lol? What time is dinner?

11:33pm
Her: Will let you know tomorrow

12:15am
Me: Haha okay sounds good

1:17pm
Me: Hey

2:23pm
I called her, no answer
Me: Omg ___ what are you doing? Lol
Me: Let's go to the hot tub

2:53pm
Her: Omg I'm out with someone. Chill

3:54pm
Me: Lol I see, so what time are you free today?

4:08pm
Her: I'm kind of annoyed and have no desire to do go to the hot tub.

4:09pm
Me: Then let's go to the beach!

5:03pm
Me: Lol are you free the rest of the day?
Me: sent a meme that related to her job


No response from her

I literally had to text 10 coworkers to get one to pick up my shift for this day. It's a rare day off and I made zero plans because thought I'd be with her, such a waste of a day. Wtf is wrong with people. She's 24, recently was cheated on by her ex that she still lives with. Super hot, 9/10. And extremely inconsiderate of peoples time
 

Fluxcapacitor

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@Dylweed dude! She was wasting her time dealing with you, not you with her. Your texts were shit and told her everything she needs to know about you. Clingy, needy and chasing, very attractive... I'd be amazed if you hear from her again.

The fact that she forgot about your plans shows low interest. Your response was emotional, there's really only two responses here. 1) "k" - she's not emotionally invested enough for this to work here but it's better than that you done. 2) "that's a shame, we'd have had fun. Maybe another time" not buthurt, not emotional, unfazed and even half takes away your offer.

If you'd have left radio silence for a day after "sounds good" you could have revived it.

The rest is just horrible. She told you to chill and you messaged a further 5 times without a response... read my first paragraph.

Go calm down, read the text thread again and see how one sided and desperate those texts are. Next time fix your first date so she's actually interested to meet you a second time.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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Beyond pathetic you are done..

You:He what are you doing?

Her: I made plans

You: but why let's go out?

You: hi let's go out

You: blah blah let's go out


In her brain you are a needy creeper, game over

Drop the hahas and lol rapport seeking behavior. Stop being a psycho
 

TomInHo

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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I literally had to text 10 coworkers to get one to pick up my shift for this day.
Don't tell me you re-arranged your life just for a chance to hangout with just one girl

It's a rare day off and I made zero plans because thought I'd be with her, such a waste of a day.

When in sarge mode it's always smart to have multiple leads. Focusing on only one girl at a time is very inefficient, because they can drop off at any time

Wtf is wrong with people. She's 24, recently was cheated on by her ex that she still lives with. Super hot, 9/10. And extremely inconsiderate of peoples time

Nothing is wrong with people. What's wrong is your expectations

@Dylweed your coming across as very needy. It will be surprising if this girl ever responds to any of your future texts. This may sound cheesy, but you have to put your life and well being above women. Even as a seducer it's not healthy to be solely woman focused

Because when women act like women and flake or show disinterest, you should always have your life to look forward too.

Fill up your pipeline with multiple leads, get something in your life that you feel emotional/passionate about besides women, and watch your neediness over text disappear.
 

Dylweed

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Messages
164
Okay appreciate the other perspective. Interesting to think how it would've worked out had I just texted her "k" or "that's a shame, we'd have had fun. Maybe another time"

Possibly she would've reached out to me? I feel like unlikely but who knows? Ugh, so over picking up girls at the moment. I find it interesting how you are all saying I'm acting needy, I could be unaware here but I don't feel like I am. I just expected her to behave like a normal human. A normal human should not make plans that they can't keep. I literally did change my days plans all around for 1 girl yes. Because in a perfect world, a girl who agrees to hang out will yes, hang out. I mean why would someone not keep their word? How does someone do that and not feel like shit about themselves? I would never do that some girl. That would be rude as fuck and would possibly fuck her day over. She would possibly turn down other plans to hang with me and then I just bail and ruin her day? Fuck no

Btw when I wanna do something, I fucking do it. If I got plans to go to the gym, I fucking go. If I got plans to work on something, I do it. I get in a zone where i have to do it right then and there. If something stops me from achieving my expectations I'll get very upset. It's just in my nature. Luckily those plans usually aren't so disrupted, and if they are it's not usually because 1 specific person, it's life getting in the way and it bothers me. Maybe im a little sporadic but it's just my true nature. I get shit done though.

Now I know a ton of people will just say it's all my fault it didn't work with this girl. And I know that taking personal responsibility is the only way to improve but can't we please admit here that what this girl did was fucking rude? I will only be single for 1 more week so I don't have time to drag this shit out with this one girl. I work all night shifts, she works day shifts. Knew it was today or never, so just tried as hard as I could to make it happen and totally was aware that I'd fuck it up in the process but please let's not act like she was actually gonna come over today regardless. I really didn't fuck anything up. There was nothing to fuck up. She shouldn't have made plans with me that she can't keep, causing me to ruin my day. How inconsiderate of her. I was kinda just calling her on her bullshit. She made plans, if she gets annoyed when someone gets annoyed at her for fucking up plans than she's a retard. At least she could be apologetic at least. I honestly don't wanna hang with a flakey ass girl. Is that a problem? I feel like it shouldn't be. If I have to be okay with a girl being flakey and give her some right of passage just because she's a hot young girl then ill just be single lol I mean I got a girl that im gonna be exclusive with in a week, just wanted to enjoy the ability to fuck random girls one last chance while I still can.

I guess i was just hoping to find someone on here who could relate to my frustrations but I guess not.
 
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TomInHo

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Btw when I wanna do something, I fucking do it. If I got plans to go to the gym, I fucking go. If I got plans to work on something, I do it. I get in a zone where i have to do it right then and there. If something stops me from achieving my expectations I'll get very upset. It's just in my nature. Luckily those plans usually aren't so disrupted, and if they are it's not usually because 1 specific person, it's life getting in the way and it bothers me. Maybe im a little sporadic but it's just my true nature. I get shit done though.

Now I know a ton of people will just say it's all my fault it didn't work with this girl. And I know that taking personal responsibility is the only way to improve but can't we please admit here that what this girl did was fucking rude? I will only be single for 1 more week so I don't have time to drag this shit out with this one girl. I work all night shifts, she works day shifts. Knew it was today or never, so just tried as hard as I could to make it happen and totally was aware that I'd fuck it up in the process but please let's not act like she was actually gonna come over today regardless. I really didn't fuck anything up. There was nothing to fuck up. She shouldn't have made plans with me that she can't keep, causing me to ruin my day. How inconsiderate of her. I honestly don't wanna hang with a flakey ass girl. Is that a problem? I feel like it shouldn't be. If I have to be okay with a girl being flakey and give her some right of passage just because she's a hot young girl then ill just be single lol I mean I got a girl that im gonna be exclusive with in a week, just wanted to enjoy the ability to fuck random girls one last chance while I still can.

I guess i was just hoping to find someone on here who could relate to my frustrations but I guess not.
Too be fair

She doesn't owe you a damn thing. She didn't beg you to rearrange your schedule. You did that on your own accord.

Just accept the repercussions of your actions for moving your life around for someone you barley know. Because the world doesn't revolve around you, and others will always do things that are in their best self interest in mind, not due to mercy or gratitude

So you can either learn how to give people more compelling offers to come into your reality, or you can stay bitter

The choice is yours
 

Dylweed

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Messages
164
Too be fair.

She doesn't owe you a damn thing. She didn't beg you to rearrange your schedule. You did that on your own accord.

Just accept the repercussions of your action for moving your life around for someone you barley know. The world doesn't revolve around you, and other will always do things what's in their self interest in mind.

So you can either learn how to give people compelling offers to come into your reality or you can stay bitter

The choice is yours
Yeah but she could have said no to making plans with me. But instead she agreed and fucked me over. Yeah I guess most people just suck. At least I always keep my plans with people, or apologize if I can't. I guess I just expect people to act like me but they definitely don't lol oh well.

Yeah I guess obviously my offer wasn't compelling enough, or she wouldn't have "forgot" about our plans. But I was true to myself on the first date, had a good time. I'm guessing she did too or she wouldn't have texted me back the next day and made new plans or have made out with me multiple times. I'm just glad I acted genuine and myself. If that's not good enough for her, oh well. Not everyone is meant to be together. Just don't make plans you can't keep. Guess you gotta always expect a flake and have back up plans. Annoying that the world is this way but it's just how it is I guess.
 

Dylweed

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Messages
164
Fill up your pipeline with multiple leads, get something in your life that you feel emotional/passionate about besides women, and watch your neediness over text disappear.
Having multiple leads and having to make plans with 2 girls on the same day is retarded. But yes I love having a dope back up plan. I definitely have that. This flake pissed me off though so much I lost motivation but usually my back up plans are enough.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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Okay appreciate the other perspective. Interesting to think how it would've worked out had I just texted her "k" or "that's a shame, we'd have had fun. Maybe another time"

Possibly she would've reached out to me? I feel like unlikely but who knows? Ugh, so over picking up girls at the moment. I find it interesting how you are all saying I'm acting needy, I could be unaware here but I don't feel like I am. I just expected her to behave like a normal human. A normal human should not make plans that they can't keep. I literally did change my days plans all around for 1 girl yes. Because in a perfect world, a girl who agrees to hang out will yes, hang out. I mean why would someone not keep their word? How does someone do that and not feel like shit about themselves? I would never do that some girl. That would be rude as fuck and would possibly fuck her day over. She would possibly turn down other plans to hang with me and then I just bail and ruin her day? Fuck no

Btw when I wanna do something, I fucking do it. If I got plans to go to the gym, I fucking go. If I got plans to work on something, I do it. I get in a zone where i have to do it right then and there. If something stops me from achieving my expectations I'll get very upset. It's just in my nature. Luckily those plans usually aren't so disrupted, and if they are it's not usually because 1 specific person, it's life getting in the way and it bothers me. Maybe im a little sporadic but it's just my true nature. I get shit done though.

Now I know a ton of people will just say it's all my fault it didn't work with this girl. And I know that taking personal responsibility is the only way to improve but can't we please admit here that what this girl did was fucking rude? I will only be single for 1 more week so I don't have time to drag this shit out with this one girl. I work all night shifts, she works day shifts. Knew it was today or never, so just tried as hard as I could to make it happen and totally was aware that I'd fuck it up in the process but please let's not act like she was actually gonna come over today regardless. I really didn't fuck anything up. There was nothing to fuck up. She shouldn't have made plans with me that she can't keep, causing me to ruin my day. How inconsiderate of her. I was kinda just calling her on her bullshit. She made plans, if she gets annoyed when someone gets annoyed at her for fucking up plans than she's a retard. At least she could be apologetic at least. I honestly don't wanna hang with a flakey ass girl. Is that a problem? I feel like it shouldn't be. If I have to be okay with a girl being flakey and give her some right of passage just because she's a hot young girl then ill just be single lol I mean I got a girl that im gonna be exclusive with in a week, just wanted to enjoy the ability to fuck random girls one last chance while I still can.

I guess i was just hoping to find someone on here who could relate to my frustrations but I guess not.
Total lack of understanding of women...read models by Mark Manson best book on neediness
 
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topcat

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@Dylweed You may have asperger's.

I mean that with no disrespect.

But your insistence on doing things "the correct way", the noble way along with your regimented approach to socializing, at the complete ignorance of social nuance is classic.

I had a housemate once who had asperger's and thought the exact same way. When people didn't conform to his logically derived code of respect he was furious, and took it personally.

Not sure how to help you, because social nuance is alien to you, but hopefully recognizing this can help you find a solutions based way to tackle your mind blindness, and also give those on here who might seek to help you, a new perspective through which to address your concerns effectively.

Best.
 

Tayo

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I call women up when I am free and ask to meet up casually within an hour. If she isn't free, I try 2 days later trying to get a meet up... It is kind of simplistic but if she flakes the second time, I throw the ball in her court (asking her to call me whenever she is free to meet for softdrinks)... then I delete her number.

My head space is free from all those back and forth drama...
 

Dylweed

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Messages
164
@Dylweed You may have asperger's.

I mean that with no disrespect.

But your insistence on doing things "the correct way", the noble way along with your regimented approach to socializing, at the complete ignorance of social nuance is classic.

I had a housemate once who had asperger's and thought the exact same way. When people didn't conform to his logically derived code of respect he was furious, and took it personally.

Not sure how to help you, because social nuance is alien to you, but hopefully recognizing this can help you find a solutions based way to tackle your mind blindness, and also give those on here who might seek to help you, a new perspective through which to address your concerns effectively.

Best.
I don't think it takes having aspergers to be offended when people treat you with zero respect lol especially when you'd never treat people that way. I don't wanna associate with flaky people, dont think that means I have aspergers. I get annoyed when guy friends do it and if they do it multiple times I cut them out of my life. I've banged a lot of chicks and have had a 4 yr relationship with a girl who would never flake on people, people other then me. Because she's not an inconsiderate human. Same with the girl I'm going to be dating exclusively in a week. Never pulled some flaky shit and just treats me with respect, just like i do to her. Being upset when people are disrespectful of your time means you have asperger's? I have a friend who gets pissed when girls flake on him, and I don't think he has aspergers. If It takes having aspergers to get annoyed by people being disrespectful then I definitely got it lmao

Sounds like a correlation doesn't imply causation type situation with the roommate you had. I definitely got more annoyed in this specific case since I went through the trouble of getting the night off from work. Definitely a mistake and something I'll never do again but also if the girl wasn't a piece of shit it would've worked out fine lol Also I was on phenibut cuz I took it the day before and it lasts forever. Maybe that had me a little more angry than usual lol
 
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topcat

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I don't think it takes having aspergers to be offended when people treat you with zero respect lol especially when you'd never treat people that way. I don't wanna associate with flaky people, dont think that means I have aspergers. I get annoyed when guy friends do it and if they do it multiple times I cut them out of my life. I've banged a lot of chicks and have had a 4 yr relationship with a girl who would never flake on people, people other then me. Because she's not an inconsiderate human. Same with the girl I'm going to be dating exclusively in a week. Never pulled some flaky shit and just treats me with respect, just like i do to her. Being upset when people are disrespectful of your time means you have asperger's? I have a friend who gets pissed when girls flake on him, and I don't think he has aspergers. If It takes having aspergers to get annoyed by people being disrespectful then I definitely got it lmao

Sounds like a correlation doesn't imply causation type situation with the roommate you had. I definitely got more annoyed in this specific case since I went through the trouble of getting the night off from work. Definitely a mistake and something I'll never do again but also if the girl wasn't a piece of shit it would've worked out fine lol Also I was on phenibut cuz I took it the day before and it lasts forever. Maybe that had me a little more angry than usual lol
mate.. getting mad at a woman flaking is not why i think you have aspergers. The fact that you are completely ignorant of social subcontext is.

Let me spell it out for you -

she could have flaked for any number of reasons.

The social subcontext in this is that she may have flaked for reasons unbeknownst to even herself.

(Your job as a seducer is to acquire fluency in the occult language that is social subcontext).

All she knows is she just wasn’t FEELING it, but who knows she might’ve been feeling it later. She can’t outright tell you this though because it removes her OPTIONS (and makes her sound crazy).

If she outright rejects you and then she realizes it was a mistake she looks like a fool and feels shame.

If she welcomes your advances despite not feeling you, she has to fend you off and reject you. Or put up with a low value man, and feel more shame, disgust, fear, resentment.

..so she flaked with a socially acceptable/plausibly deniable excuse.
(keeping her options open by leaving you room to reseduce her)

A good seducer leads her through her emotions to the right choice (himself).

Women are risk averse, because men can be aggressive and blockheaded. This is the subcontext. You blew threw this though and with your hard headed texting, proved without a shadow of a doubt that she should get as far away from you as possible.

She outright rejected you which for a woman is a huge deal. Usually their silence or noncommittal texts are enough, but for you sir, they are not.

YOU FORCED HER TO REJECT YOU.

The fact that you won’t see this is why I think aspergers. Drop that though, i’m not a doctor, it’s just an observation..
 
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J Wick

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Get better, not bitter.

You have every right not to associate with flakey people. Unfortunately women you barely know are flakey people.

Of course some guys experience less flakes. That’s because girls often come through and meet up with guys who they feel good about meeting with. That’s why girlfriends don’t usually flake. But girls who are on the fence about you? They flake like it’s Christmas.

Game and experience helps to manage, understand, and prevent flakes.

We all deal with it, with better game, better expectations, and more experience.
 

Dylweed

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Messages
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mate.. getting mad at a woman flaking is not why i think you have aspergers. The fact that you are completely ignorant of social subcontext is.

Let me spell it out for you -

she could have flaked for any number of reasons.

The social subcontext in this is that she may have flaked for reasons unbeknownst to even herself.

(Your job as a seducer is to acquire fluency in the occult language that is social subcontext).

All she knows is she just wasn’t FEELING it, but who knows she might’ve been feeling it later. She can’t outright tell you this though because it removes her OPTIONS (and makes her sound crazy).

If she outright rejects you and then she realizes it was a mistake she looks like a fool and feels shame.

If she welcomes your advances despite not feeling you, she has to fend you off and reject you. Or put up with a low value man, and feel more shame, disgust, fear, resentment.

..so she flaked with a socially acceptable/plausibly deniable excuse.

A good seducer leads her through her emotions to the right choice (himself).

Women are risk averse, because men can be aggressive and blockheaded. This is the subcontext. You blew threw this though and with your hard headed texting, proved without a shadow of a doubt that she should get as far away from you as possible.

She outright rejected you which for a woman is a huge deal. Usually their silence or noncommittal texts are enough, but for you sir, they are not.

YOU FORCED HER TO REJECT YOU.

The fact that you won’t see this is why I think aspergers. Drop that though, i’m not a doctor, it’s just an observation..
Lol idk I'm cracking up right now and kinda proud of myself. Being wishy washy and trying to keep me as a last resort and being afraid to reject someone is fucking lame. I'd prefer a yes or no. I don't care if you can't come up with a decision. It's now or never lol don't string me along wasting my time. It's like if you're gonna reject me then yes just reject me lmao don't be half ass. Don't beat around the bush cuz you can't handle the social pressure to reject someone. It's okay though most girls don't do this.

But yeah it's not like I was unaware what she was doing. I just don't do that behavior myself. I went on a tinder date 2 weeks ago. Wasn't feeling it. She texted me the next day abs said she likes me and wants to hang again. It was uncomfortable to do but I touched it out and told her that I had a good time but that im looking for something else. Would've been easier to come up with some excuse or ghost her but I'm actually not a piece of shit human lol she actually thanked me for my honesty and then she could start moving along instead of being strung along and left confused and wondering what's going on and wasting time thinking about it.

And now maybe just maybe, this girl will remember this situation and with the next guy she won't make plans she can't keep. Im also definitely a little petty at times and enjoy pissing off people who have pissed me off. So her texting me that she was annoyed honestly made me partly happy.

And as far as having autism goes, idk I guess I could go to a doctor and see what they say lol I have no idea how all that goes
 

Vision

Tribal Elder
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This was after we made plans after our first dare. 1st date we got wine and made out a few times, never got alone in private.

Where'd you meet her, initially?

Where did you go to have wine and make out? Was this a public place?

Likely, the problem is actually in everything that happened before here... but if you met her and made out with her, you're doing something right to get there, at least.

4:38pm
Me: ____! The weather forecast is looking awesome tomorrow lol, what time are you free?

Did you actually make a solid plan with her or did you just agree to hang out on a specific day?

5:18pm
Girl: Hi
Girl: Honestly I forgot so I made dinner plans tomorrow night

Super low interest.

Notice that she forgot while you completely rearranged your life in order to spend time with her.

That's a value and power mismatch. She forgot you're alive and you're investing time, attention, energy, and resources into spending more time with her.

5:26pm
Me: Oh jeez lol can you get out of them?

8:59pm
Me: Or if not can you meet up before or after dinner lol? What time is dinner?
11:33pm
Her: Will let you know tomorrow

12:15am
Me: Haha okay sounds good

This is a blow off by the way, she's not actually saying she will let you know tomorrow.

She's really saying, "I don't like you that much."

1:17pm
Me: Hey

2:23pm
I called her, no answer
Me: Omg ___ what are you doing? Lol
Me: Let's go to the hot tub

2:53pm
Her: Omg I'm out with someone. Chill

3:54pm
Me: Lol I see, so what time are you free today?

4:08pm
Her: I'm kind of annoyed and have no desire to do go to the hot tub.

4:09pm
Me: Then let's go to the beach!

5:03pm
Me: Lol are you free the rest of the day?
Me: sent a meme that related to her job

This whole thing is kind of cringe and painful.

She's blowing you off, hoping you'll get the hint... you're persisting and not getting the hint... she really only has one other way to make sure you get the message...

No response from her

I literally had to text 10 coworkers to get one to pick up my shift for this day. It's a rare day off and I made zero plans because thought I'd be with her, such a waste of a day.

Jesus dude, don't do that again.

The reason this happened is because you are putting her on a pedestal (overvaluing her) and she just had fun making out with you one time and that's the best case scenario for how she felt about you, at that time, unfortunately.

Wtf is wrong with people. She's 24, recently was cheated on by her ex that she still lives with. Super hot, 9/10. And extremely inconsiderate of peoples time

She's probably thinking "wtf is wrong with this guy? We made out and then he started acting all weird and clingy! Then he's blowing up my phone and harrassing me when I'm out with a friend. Some guys are just so weird."

Having multiple leads and having to make plans with 2 girls on the same day is retarded. But yes I love having a dope back up plan. I definitely have that. This flake pissed me off though so much I lost motivation but usually my back up plans are enough.

Yeah, getting flaked on sucks. Be pissy if you need to be. Then get back up and do better next time... the only way to be.

Okay appreciate the other perspective. Interesting to think how it would've worked out had I just texted her "k" or "that's a shame, we'd have had fun. Maybe another time"

All that would have done was hopefully prevented you from completely destroying all chances that you had at recovering something with her... it probably wouldn't have switched the dynamic at all... that was mostly already done previously when you met with her.

Possibly she would've reached out to me? I feel like unlikely but who knows? Ugh, so over picking up girls at the moment. I find it interesting how you are all saying I'm acting needy, I could be unaware here but I don't feel like I am. I just expected her to behave like a normal human. A normal human should not make plans that they can't keep.

You're not behaving like a socially adept human, that's what they're saying... a socially adept human doesn't cancel everything in his life to hang out with a girl he made out with one time... he doesn't keep pushing to meet up with a girl on a day when she flaked and didn't give you an alternative.

I literally did change my days plans all around for 1 girl yes. Because in a perfect world, a girl who agrees to hang out will yes, hang out. I mean why would someone not keep their word? How does someone do that and not feel like shit about themselves? I would never do that some girl. That would be rude as fuck and would possibly fuck her day over. She would possibly turn down other plans to hang with me and then I just bail and ruin her day? Fuck no

No, you changed your plans all around for her because you're over-invested, you're over-valuing, and you're really excited about her.

I have to admit, I've done this to women before... where we had plans and I cancelled at the last minute... literally for reasons like I didn't want to put my clothes on and go out to meet with her.

Dick move, I know. Why did I do it though? Because I didn't really like her that much... I knew she was way too into me... I've had girls stalk me before and I didn't want another one of those... I reluctantly said yes when we made plans and she was trying to hang out with me... hanging out with girls who are way too into you is fucking weird because they're constantly doing weird shit to try to make you like them more but it only proves that they're fucking weird.

If you've never had that experience, it feels a little bad but not as bad as having someone act super weird around you because they like you so much.

I met this Jewish chick once when I took a trip over to San Diego... she flew out to visit me when I was living in Colorado right before I went to Europe... she stayed at my place and hooked up a couple of times with me... then I didn't see her for a few months and we met again in Vienna, Austria and traveled south.

The whole time we were hanging out in Europe together, which I think ended up being about 2 weeks, she was talking about having my babies and getting married, and all kinds of other weird shit... I mean, I hooked up with her once, 3 months earlier and she was already thinking about what our babies would look like together... it was weird af.

She pressed me about us living together and I broke down and told her that I had met a girl in Ukraine and that my heart was really there... she lost her shit, was super angry, attacking me, made up some lies just to try to piss me off, and all kinds of stuff. Way too much...

If she's a hot girl, she's almost certainly had dudes do similar shit to her as that Jewish chick did with me, but probably even worse.

Plus, since she's a hot girl, she's getting dick thrown at her left and right... and what most girls are doing is they're screening to see how weird guys are going to be around them... you showed her you're going to be really fucking weird and I guarantee it would only get worse the deeper you went into knowing her and being around her, especially since you're so heavily overvaluing her.

Btw when I wanna do something, I fucking do it. If I got plans to go to the gym, I fucking go. If I got plans to work on something, I do it. I get in a zone where i have to do it right then and there. If something stops me from achieving my expectations I'll get very upset. It's just in my nature. Luckily those plans usually aren't so disrupted, and if they are it's not usually because 1 specific person, it's life getting in the way and it bothers me. Maybe im a little sporadic but it's just my true nature. I get shit done though.

Yeah, you're a guy... that's a very masculine, guy thing to do.

Now I know a ton of people will just say it's all my fault it didn't work with this girl. And I know that taking personal responsibility is the only way to improve but can't we please admit here that what this girl did was fucking rude?

Yeah, it was rude... and lots more women are going to do rude shit to you before you're done with this journey, assuming you stay on it.

You're probably going to do some rude shit to women as well, assuming you keep getting better. That's kind of how this all goes.

I will only be single for 1 more week so I don't have time to drag this shit out with this one girl. I work all night shifts, she works day shifts. Knew it was today or never, so just tried as hard as I could to make it happen and totally was aware that I'd fuck it up in the process but please let's not act like she was actually gonna come over today regardless. I really didn't fuck anything up. There was nothing to fuck up. She shouldn't have made plans with me that she can't keep, causing me to ruin my day. How inconsiderate of her. I was kinda just calling her on her bullshit. She made plans, if she gets annoyed when someone gets annoyed at her for fucking up plans than she's a retard. At least she could be apologetic at least. I honestly don't wanna hang with a flakey ass girl. Is that a problem? I feel like it shouldn't be. If I have to be okay with a girl being flakey and give her some right of passage just because she's a hot young girl then ill just be single lol I mean I got a girl that im gonna be exclusive with in a week, just wanted to enjoy the ability to fuck random girls one last chance while I still can.

I guess i was just hoping to find someone on here who could relate to my frustrations but I guess not.

Yeah, it sucks dude. Women being flakey sucks.

Here's something you need to learn though... you didn't actually make any plans with her.

If you're messaging her asking her what time she's free, you didn't make any plans with her.

Yeah but she could have said no to making plans with me. But instead she agreed and fucked me over. Yeah I guess most people just suck. At least I always keep my plans with people, or apologize if I can't. I guess I just expect people to act like me but they definitely don't lol oh well.

Yeah I guess obviously my offer wasn't compelling enough, or she wouldn't have "forgot" about our plans. But I was true to myself on the first date, had a good time. I'm guessing she did too or she wouldn't have texted me back the next day and made new plans or have made out with me multiple times. I'm just glad I acted genuine and myself. If that's not good enough for her, oh well. Not everyone is meant to be together. Just don't make plans you can't keep. Guess you gotta always expect a flake and have back up plans. Annoying that the world is this way but it's just how it is I guess.

You weren't that compelling to her... sure, you made out with her... but what else happened? Did you qualify her? Build a connection?

Maybe I missed the first date and what happened but I don't see what happened anywhere.

You're just some random dude she's kissed one time... she's probably done that a number of times since she was in middle school... not a whole lot of meaning to it.

I mean, that's awesome that you did that and got that but I wouldn't focus on trying to do that in future dates if you're not planning on going all the way with it, imo.
 

Dylweed

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
164
Get better, not bitter.

You have every right not to associate with flakey people. Unfortunately women you barely know are flakey people.

Of course some guys experience less flakes. That’s because girls often come through and meet up with guys who they feel good about meeting with. That’s why girlfriends don’t usually flake. But girls who are on the fence about you? They flake like it’s Christmas.

Game and experience helps to manage, understand, and prevent flakes.

We all deal with it, with better game, better expectations, and more experience.
Yeah its pretty rare for me. Actually haven't had a girl flake on a 2nd date since I became single in April 2021. I've banged 5 chicks since then. So I'm glad it's not often lol
 

Dylweed

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
164
Where'd you meet her, initially?

Where did you go to have wine and make out? Was this a public place?

Likely, the problem is actually in everything that happened before here... but if you met her and made out with her, you're doing something right to get there, at least.
So I met her through tinder, we barely texted before I asked her to get coffee. She said she doesn't drink coffee after work, 6pm, so I said drinks, she said yes. I picked a bar close to me, 30 minute drive for her. Was just a random small dark lit bar with a cool atmosphere, had never been there before. I kissed her once at the bar, after talking for like 45 minutes. Just a quick kiss. She just looked so hot and I was getting turned on, plus I had a buzz, had 2 glasses of wine and I never drink. It was honestly really fun. The alcohol probably helps, it just makes you connect with people.

We left the bar and I said I wanted ice cream. She said she didn't wanna but she'd watch me eat. She actually bought me the ice cream and said since I paid for the wine bottle that was on a half off special. I suggested we check out my recording studio in my room, I make music, it's actually legit. She said she wouldn't sleep with me tonight. I said "you don't have to", with no pause and just kept talking like nothing happened. I didn't take it seriously. But later in my head I imagined getting her alone and her putting up tons of LMR and just figured if I saw her a different day that she wouldn't have resistance then. I figured this because what she said earlier. Which is funny cuz I've had a girl tell me we weren't gonna have sex when we got to her place and I figured it was a test and said yeah for sure and then we ended up having sex immediately when we got there. So maybe I should've tried. I tried getting her to my outdoor hot tub but she's a real baby about being cold. It was 62° at 10pm here in Florida and she said it was too cold. It sounds like an excuse to not hang with me but she actually said she'd sit next to me and watch me go in the hot tub. That just sounded retarded though. Probably still should've though because then she would've been at my place and we could have maybe fucked.

So instead I took her to the pier. Which had dope views of the city skyscrapers. At one point there was just so much sexual tension I went to kiss her and we made out real passionately. Nobody was really around. I ended the make out first just to make sure she wasn't the one to end it.

Then I dropped her off at her car and tried for the hot tub again but she was saying it was too cold so I just walked her to her car and hugged her and then we made out again. Again I ended it first. She got really into the making out.

Did you actually make a solid plan with her or did you just agree to hang out on a specific day?
This was the texts leading up to the 2nd date. On Thursday.

Me: Yes the coffee helped! Lol Hey DD I looked at the upcoming weather to see if there was a day warm enough for the hot tub in the 10 day forecast, we're in luck, there's 2 days that won't go below 70° soon. Saturday is one of them, are you free Saturday night?

Her: I don't understand your obsession with hot tubs
Her: I have plans Saturday

Me: You haven't been in one in too long! You forgot how cool they are! And yeah it's Saturday thought you'd probably have plans, all good haha just don't go in a hot tub without me that night

Her: I will try my hardest

Me: lmao awesome
Me: I could maybe be free Sunday night? Are you?

Her: I am currently free Sunday

Me: Hell yeah! Okay I'm free too, it's going down!

Her: lol ok

Then I didn't text her again till Saturday with the texts i originally posted.

Super low interest.

Notice that she forgot while you completely rearranged your life in order to spend time with her.

That's a value and power mismatch. She forgot you're alive and you're investing time, attention, energy, and resources into spending more time with her.
Yes exactly, ridiculous lol but how would I know she forgot I existed before recieving these texts?

This is a blow off by the way, she's not actually saying she will let you know tomorrow.

She's really saying, "I don't like you that much."
Yes I know this. I definitely wasn't reading her texts thinking "oh things are going just fine". I know how chicks act when they're into me.

This whole thing is kind of cringe and painful.

She's blowing you off, hoping you'll get the hint... you're persisting and not getting the hint... she really only has one other way to make sure you get the message...
I knew she was lol well part of me thought maybe just maybe she wasn't and that she's just really retarded about going about making plans. Also it feels so odd that someone would even respond at all with lies, I'd actually rather be ignored. I don't lie so part of me thought she was being honest. But part of me was just pissed at her for lying and not just telling me the truth that she doesn't wanna see me. Or yeah even just pissed that she wouldn't just ignore me.

Jesus dude, don't do that again.
I definitely won't lol

The reason this happened is because you are putting her on a pedestal (overvaluing her) and she just had fun making out with you one time and that's the best case scenario for how she felt about you, at that time, unfortunately.

She's probably thinking "wtf is wrong with this guy? We made out and then he started acting all weird and clingy! Then he's blowing up my phone and harrassing me when I'm out with a friend. Some guys are just so weird."
I really do not care at all if she thinks that. I mean I'd have preferred her just have hung out with me but if she's not gonna hang with me I don't give a shit what she thinks of me. Makes no difference to my life at all. I'll never see her again. If anything it's just sad that she doesn't realize how annoying she was being. But man part of thinks that she actually knows she was in the wrong and was just upset I was calling her out on her lies. And that if she's gonna go on about calling me crazy that it's just a rationalizing to help her from feeling like she's the crazy one.

Yeah, getting flaked on sucks. Be pissy if you need to be. Then get back up and do better next time... the only way to be.
True man, true that.

All that would have done was hopefully prevented you from completely destroying all chances that you had at recovering something with her... it probably wouldn't have switched the dynamic at all... that was mostly already done previously when you met with her.
I know seriously! Thank you for saying this. If anybody acts like I blew this with my texts they're wrong it was already over. I knew if I just texted something like that I'd never hear from her again. So I felt it'd be fun to persist and get her to tell the truth and also annoy her in the process

You're not behaving like a socially adept human, that's what they're saying... a socially adept human doesn't cancel everything in his life to hang out with a girl he made out with one time... he doesn't keep pushing to meet up with a girl on a day when she flaked and didn't give you an alternative.
It was kinda fun to fuck with her

No, you changed your plans all around for her because you're over-invested, you're over-valuing, and you're really excited about her.

I have to admit, I've done this to women before... where we had plans and I cancelled at the last minute... literally for reasons like I didn't want to put my clothes on and go out to meet with her.

Dick move, I know. Why did I do it though? Because I didn't really like her that much... I knew she was way too into me... I've had girls stalk me before and I didn't want another one of those... I reluctantly said yes when we made plans and she was trying to hang out with me... hanging out with girls who are way too into you is fucking weird because they're constantly doing weird shit to try to make you like them more but it only proves that they're fucking weird.

If you've never had that experience, it feels a little bad but not as bad as having someone act super weird around you because they like you so much.

I met this Jewish chick once when I took a trip over to San Diego... she flew out to visit me when I was living in Colorado right before I went to Europe... she stayed at my place and hooked up a couple of times with me... then I didn't see her for a few months and we met again in Vienna, Austria and traveled south.

The whole time we were hanging out in Europe together, which I think ended up being about 2 weeks, she was talking about having my babies and getting married, and all kinds of other weird shit... I mean, I hooked up with her once, 3 months earlier and she was already thinking about what our babies would look like together... it was weird af.

She pressed me about us living together and I broke down and told her that I had met a girl in Ukraine and that my heart was really there... she lost her shit, was super angry, attacking me, made up some lies just to try to piss me off, and all kinds of stuff. Way too much...

If she's a hot girl, she's almost certainly had dudes do similar shit to her as that Jewish chick did with me, but probably even worse.

Plus, since she's a hot girl, she's getting dick thrown at her left and right... and what most girls are doing is they're screening to see how weird guys are going to be around them... you showed her you're going to be really fucking weird and I guarantee it would only get worse the deeper you went into knowing her and being around her, especially since you're so heavily overvaluing her.
I didn't show her that though. If she wouldn't have flaked I would've never sent these texts that everyone is cringing over. Also like you said her mind was already made up before any of these texts here occurred. I can't ruin something that's already ruined. Sure maybe now she feels better about ending things with me, she might think im crazy and that she dodged a bullet. But she was already ending things with me before I acted "crazy". I had nothing to lose. If she continued on seeing me and not flaking without apologies and reschedules then definitely nothing crazy would've occurred.

Yeah, it was rude... and lots more women are going to do rude shit to you before you're done with this journey, assuming you stay on it.

You're probably going to do some rude shit to women as well, assuming you keep getting better. That's kind of how this all goes.
At least someone will admit she was rude thank you. Took a while lol

Yeah, it sucks dude. Women being flakey sucks.

Here's something you need to learn though... you didn't actually make any plans with her.

If you're messaging her asking her what time she's free, you didn't make any plans with her.
You saw the texts leading up to it now, did I make plans with her or no?

You weren't that compelling to her... sure, you made out with her... but what else happened? Did you qualify her? Build a connection?

Maybe I missed the first date and what happened but I don't see what happened anywhere.

You're just some random dude she's kissed one time... she's probably done that a number of times since she was in middle school... not a whole lot of meaning to it.

I mean, that's awesome that you did that and got that but I wouldn't focus on trying to do that in future dates if you're not planning on going all the way with it, imo.
So now that I posted the actual info on how the first date went it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on that. I did not "qualify" her. Is that what you do on dates? On dates I just go in with no plans other than to try to get them alone by the end. I just act extremely genuine and authentic. I definitely don't follow most this websites advice. I did for a year but then got into RSD and just being yourself. I truly can not stop being myself at this point and if a girl doesn't like me for me then we're not a good match cuz there's tons of girls who love everything about me. Maybe theyre just not quite as hot as this chick though. The fact she was so hot and so young, I felt like after the first date ended I felt a little too excited about her, like she was almost out of my league. Didn't feel that way on the date though. Maybe I should try to qualifying them though. Basically be honest about what you like about their personality? I'd say we built a connection. I'm a really expressive talkative guy and I'm real easy going. Never run out of shit to say and I love talking to people. At one point she said I talk way more in real life than over text. I said yeah I hate texting cuz it's unnatural. She was definitely giving me a lot of shit at times when we were hanging but I like who I am and if she doesn't like it I don't care haha at one point she said I talk a lot. I said yeah but I give people a chance to talk as well right? And she strongly agreed. And we hated on people who don't give you a chance to speak.

Btw I appreciate your time you put into your reply and you're good at giving criticism
 

Vision

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Jul 3, 2020
Messages
232
So I met her through tinder, we barely texted before I asked her to get coffee. She said she doesn't drink coffee after work, 6pm, so I said drinks, she said yes. I picked a bar close to me, 30 minute drive for her. Was just a random small dark lit bar with a cool atmosphere, had never been there before. I kissed her once at the bar, after talking for like 45 minutes.

You just talk about whatever? No structure at all? Any particular direction you went with it or just whatever came up for you?

Just a quick kiss. She just looked so hot and I was getting turned on, plus I had a buzz, had 2 glasses of wine and I never drink. It was honestly really fun. The alcohol probably helps, it just makes you connect with people.

We left the bar and I said I wanted ice cream. She said she didn't wanna but she'd watch me eat. She actually bought me the ice cream and said since I paid for the wine bottle that was on a half off special. I suggested we check out my recording studio in my room, I make music, it's actually legit. She said she wouldn't sleep with me tonight. I said "you don't have to", with no pause and just kept talking like nothing happened. I didn't take it seriously.

It's a shit test. IME, the best way is to agree and amplify or reframe it onto her.

But later in my head I imagined getting her alone and her putting up tons of LMR and just figured if I saw her a different day that she wouldn't have resistance then.

It's probably better to imagine things going smoothly and banging the shit out of her than imagining her giving you lots of LMR.

I figured this because what she said earlier. Which is funny cuz I've had a girl tell me we weren't gonna have sex when we got to her place and I figured it was a test and said yeah for sure and then we ended up having sex immediately when we got there. So maybe I should've tried.

Right.

I tried getting her to my outdoor hot tub but she's a real baby about being cold. It was 62° at 10pm here in Florida and she said it was too cold.

What part of Florida are you in? Are you part of the Miami crowd?

It sounds like an excuse to not hang with me but she actually said she'd sit next to me and watch me go in the hot tub. That just sounded retarded though. Probably still should've though because then she would've been at my place and we could have maybe fucked.

She's letting you know that she likes you but that your choice in things to do with her is something she doesn't like.

So instead I took her to the pier. Which had dope views of the city skyscrapers. At one point there was just so much sexual tension I went to kiss her and we made out real passionately. Nobody was really around. I ended the make out first just to make sure she wasn't the one to end it.

Then I dropped her off at her car and tried for the hot tub again but she was saying it was too cold so I just walked her to her car and hugged her and then we made out again. Again I ended it first. She got really into the making out.

Apparently there are some guys who like to make out with girls before taking them home... I prefer to not make out before taking them home because it creates more mystery and allows you to use friendship frames with them which can lower their guard sometimes.

I know some guys who do really well with just pushing pushing pushing and making everything hyper sexual but that doesn't work as well for me.

It could be something to test and think about for you.

This was the texts leading up to the 2nd date. On Thursday.

Me: Yes the coffee helped! Lol Hey DD I looked at the upcoming weather to see if there was a day warm enough for the hot tub in the 10 day forecast, we're in luck, there's 2 days that won't go below 70° soon. Saturday is one of them, are you free Saturday night?

Her: I don't understand your obsession with hot tubs

I'm not sure why you're still trying to get her to hot tub when she doesn't want to hot tub.

This is her cue of that... she's gone home, no longer hanging out with you, the same feelings aren't there anymore and you're pushing something on her that she already told you she doesn't want to do, and now she's in a place where she doesn't have the same feels.

What you probably should have done was either get better intel about what she would have wanted to do or come up with something she would want to go and do with you and then built that up instead of taking something she definitely said she doesn't want to do but would go with you and sit next to you while you do it and then try to build that up and get her to do it.

She probably wants more trust and comfort before she takes her clothes off and lets you pound her.

Her: I have plans Saturday

Me: You haven't been in one in too long! You forgot how cool they are! And yeah it's Saturday thought you'd probably have plans, all good haha just don't go in a hot tub without me that night

Her: I will try my hardest

Me: lmao awesome
Me: I could maybe be free Sunday night? Are you?

Her: I am currently free Sunday

Me: Hell yeah! Okay I'm free too, it's going down!

Her: lol ok

Then I didn't text her again till Saturday with the texts i originally posted.

I know this feels like you made plans with her but it's really not making solid and definite plans.

She did agree to a specific day, which is probably why she did what she did later with the texts.

Seeing more context here, with what we were talking about before, it is possible she forgot about you since she's on Tinder and we all have tons of shit going on all the time these days. Although...

My gut is telling me that she actually did like you but she probably talked to one of her friends and her friend was like, "He just wants to fuck you" and then she probably either didn't want sex or didn't want to feel like a slut, going straight over to your hot tub and getting banged by you... so she made up some shit about hanging out with her friend (or actually did go hang out with a friend) so that she specifically wasn't going to go straight over and get banged and feel bad about herself later.

That's my gut feeling about it.

Yes exactly, ridiculous lol but how would I know she forgot I existed before recieving these texts?

Yes I know this. I definitely wasn't reading her texts thinking "oh things are going just fine". I know how chicks act when they're into me.

I knew she was lol well part of me thought maybe just maybe she wasn't and that she's just really retarded about going about making plans. Also it feels so odd that someone would even respond at all with lies, I'd actually rather be ignored. I don't lie so part of me thought she was being honest. But part of me was just pissed at her for lying and not just telling me the truth that she doesn't wanna see me. Or yeah even just pissed that she wouldn't just ignore me.

Well, she probably has done stuff like this in the past and never really been called out on it... you're a dude trying to get in her pants, like 1000+ other dudes on Tinder are trying to do with her.

And girls speak in hints and subtleties and we often don't pick up on them. They often want us to just know what to do... how to lead them... where to take them... what is going on with them. And the better we can get at picking up on what they need in order to be led forward, the better they feel around us and the easier it is to lead to the bedroom, ime.

She might have wanted to see you but she didn't want to go hot tubbing and then just bang and feel like you were using her for sex (I'm not saying that's what's going on or that women don't like sex but if you're not actively setting any frames, that's likely the frame that you're in since it's a societal frame).

I definitely won't lol

I really do not care at all if she thinks that. I mean I'd have preferred her just have hung out with me but if she's not gonna hang with me I don't give a shit what she thinks of me. Makes no difference to my life at all. I'll never see her again. If anything it's just sad that she doesn't realize how annoying she was being.

Yeah, she almost certainly doesn't and won't ever realize how annoying she was... just like you don't know how uncomfortable you made her or whatever her emotions were around the interaction.

But man part of thinks that she actually knows she was in the wrong and was just upset I was calling her out on her lies. And that if she's gonna go on about calling me crazy that it's just a rationalizing to help her from feeling like she's the crazy one.

Well, most of us do that. You're over here talking about how fucked up she is, rationalizing your behavior because you've decided she's this, that, and whatever else.

She's almost certainly doing the same thing to you, missing the big picture, missing the compassion and how you feel.

The key is to learn from all of this the best we can so that we can do better, as you know.
I know seriously! Thank you for saying this. If anybody acts like I blew this with my texts they're wrong it was already over. I knew if I just texted something like that I'd never hear from her again. So I felt it'd be fun to persist and get her to tell the truth and also annoy her in the process

Well, it's possible that it could have been salvaged. It's hard to know and we probably won't know, based on what did end up happening.

At least someone will admit she was rude thank you. Took a while lol

Yeah, it's rude behavior. It's fucked... women flaking is totally ass faced rude behavior. I don't see it getting better anytime soon... the more people let women get away with it, the more it's going to happen.

And you know what? Men are doing it worse now than ever before too.

I actually teach in the women's dating side and I constantly get complaints from women about guys flaking on dates.

I'm guessing women flake way more than men. The women's dating side isn't nearly as scientific as the men's side is but flaking is a huge part of our culture now... and I've done it as well!

Honestly, I only mildly feel bad about it... but that's probably why it's perpetuating and getting worse... someone does it to us, we do it to them, none of us feel bad because we're all doing it back and forth with no real consequences outside of macro level, everyone is getting worse with it slowly but surely...

So now that I posted the actual info on how the first date went it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on that. I did not "qualify" her. Is that what you do on dates? On dates I just go in with no plans other than to try to get them alone by the end. I just act extremely genuine and authentic. I definitely don't follow most this websites advice.

It's one way of doing things... if you want a girl to think that you like her for reasons more than just wanting to bang her... as in, you think she's a cool person for legitimate reasons... which can often help with flaking, making women feel like they can trust you, and feeling like they aren't being used or just a slut.

If you're going to see a girl more than once, it's a good habit to get into.

Also, another thing that I've found that helps with pulling is setting up a future date or get together with her. I've noticed that dramatically reduces a girl's defenses around that. It just makes her feel like you want to see her again and this isn't a one time thing.

I'd also recommend studying up on sexual framing, if you want to add some direction to your game. It sounds like you're naturally doing some things very well, which is cool.

I did for a year but then got into RSD and just being yourself. I truly can not stop being myself at this point and if a girl doesn't like me for me then we're not a good match cuz there's tons of girls who love everything about me.

Just don't let the "I'm just being myself" mean that you're not going to improve, learn how to better connect with women, and learn from your mistakes...

Men and women use that phrase to push off any criticism and divert blame for their behavior onto "it just wasn't meant to be" and I don't think that's useful for anyone.

Maybe theyre just not quite as hot as this chick though. The fact she was so hot and so young, I felt like after the first date ended I felt a little too excited about her, like she was almost out of my league. Didn't feel that way on the date though. Maybe I should try to qualifying them though. Basically be honest about what you like about their personality?

No... I don't know what Chase has on the site about qualification. But basically you want to ask her and make her qualify herself on why she's a cool person and someone you would want to be with.

It builds compliance, makes her chase, and it allows you to figure out how much she likes you based on her answers... then you can actually tell her that you like her for her personality and she can "win you over" with how cool she is.

I'd say we built a connection. I'm a really expressive talkative guy and I'm real easy going. Never run out of shit to say and I love talking to people.

That's a good trait to have. Most naturals that I know are good at doing that and a lot of guys who got really good in the community have that skill as well.

At one point she said I talk way more in real life than over text. I said yeah I hate texting cuz it's unnatural. She was definitely giving me a lot of shit at times when we were hanging but I like who I am and if she doesn't like it I don't care haha at one point she said I talk a lot. I said yeah but I give people a chance to talk as well right? And she strongly agreed. And we hated on people who don't give you a chance to speak.

That's good man.

Regardless of what anyone ever tells you, you can't win them all. Anyone who says that they're 1:1 is totally full of shit.

Some women are going to flake no matter what... at this point, there's no way to know with this one.

Chalk it up to a learning experience.

Btw I appreciate your time you put into your reply and you're good at giving criticism

You're welcome.

This helps me a lot too, btw. Thanks for being open and sharing your experience for us all to pick apart and criticize you for, lol.
 

Dylweed

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
164
You just talk about whatever? No structure at all? Any particular direction you went with it or just whatever came up for you?
Yeah I just talk about whatever, no structure. I prefer just being in the moment and not trying to plan out certain topics, its more fun to me. Im sure I could lead the conversation to a specific direction if I needed to or tried to.

It's a shit test. IME, the best way is to agree and amplify or reframe it onto her.
Amplify or reframe it onto her? Can you explain or maybe link an article or something to what you're talking about? Haha

It's probably better to imagine things going smoothly and banging the shit out of her than imagining her giving you lots of LMR.
Yes but as you said later on in your reply, seemed she needed more comfort or trust or time with me.

What part of Florida are you in? Are you part of the Miami crowd?
I'm in the Tampa Bay area. Have only lived in florida for 3 months so far. This girl lives in Tampa.

She's letting you know that she likes you but that your choice in things to do with her is something she doesn't like.
That's so lame. I agree. Part of me gets turned off by girls like that. I like girls who are down for whatever. But oh well, it'd have been worth it to still bang this chick even if she's annoying like this.

Apparently there are some guys who like to make out with girls before taking them home... I prefer to not make out before taking them home because it creates more mystery and allows you to use friendship frames with them which can lower their guard sometimes.

I know some guys who do really well with just pushing pushing pushing and making everything hyper sexual but that doesn't work as well for me.

It could be something to test and think about for you.
I have heard a lot about that before. Supposedly making out releases the sexual tension and makes them not wanna bang? Idk. Could experiment. I definitely don't talk about sex or use any sex frames or shit. I just don't think it's in my nature or necessary, that just being a confident care free guy is all that's needed but once again I could be doing that thing you talked about where people just be themselves and don't try to improve.

I'm not sure why you're still trying to get her to hot tub when she doesn't want to hot tub.

This is her cue of that... she's gone home, no longer hanging out with you, the same feelings aren't there anymore and you're pushing something on her that she already told you she doesn't want to do, and now she's in a place where she doesn't have the same feels.

What you probably should have done was either get better intel about what she would have wanted to do or come up with something she would want to go and do with you and then built that up instead of taking something she definitely said she doesn't want to do but would go with you and sit next to you while you do it and then try to build that up and get her to do it.

She probably wants more trust and comfort before she takes her clothes off and lets you pound her.
I truly believed that she would've actually loved the hot tub once she finally tried it. That she didn't know what she was missing. Hot tubs are so amazing it's hard to comprehend someone not liking them. She probably would've admitted it was way more fun than she imagined if she actually went in with me. But yeah you're right i totally should've stopped trying to do it. Hot tubs are not only awesome but they also get the girl to my place. Too bad she's dumb about them. Other girls love hot tubs. I definitely should've tried some other way though yeah thanks

But yeah thats why I didn't try harder to get her alone in my room the first night. Also thought she wanted more trust and comfort.

I know this feels like you made plans with her but it's really not making solid and definite plans.

She did agree to a specific day, which is probably why she did what she did later with the texts.
How was I supposed to make plans differently? With an exact time and location?

Seeing more context here, with what we were talking about before, it is possible she forgot about you since she's on Tinder and we all have tons of shit going on all the time these days. Although...

My gut is telling me that she actually did like you but she probably talked to one of her friends and her friend was like, "He just wants to fuck you" and then she probably either didn't want sex or didn't want to feel like a slut, going straight over to your hot tub and getting banged by you... so she made up some shit about hanging out with her friend (or actually did go hang out with a friend) so that she specifically wasn't going to go straight over and get banged and feel bad about herself later.

That's my gut feeling about it.
Yeah it really seemed she liked me too. I mean she paid for my ice cream when she didn't have to and she didn't even get any herself. That's after she drove 30 minutes one way to see me too. I did buy her wine first but still. Also she was real passionate when making out and yeah had no sense she wanted to stop hanging with me. I'm a unique guy, i felt she liked me.

I wish I could somehow have some one pick her brain and get honest answers about why she did what she did. Just out of curiosity and to learn. In my opinion she's dumb to make it so complicated but then again girls just do that shit sometimes. They seriously self sabotage. Not all girls do though. But I feel like even if the best pick up dudes watched perfect quality infield footage of my date with her that they wouldn't even know exactly what happened in her head. But maybe not, who knows.

Well, she probably has done stuff like this in the past and never really been called out on it... you're a dude trying to get in her pants, like 1000+ other dudes on Tinder are trying to do with her.
Never been called on it? Probably not, ugh. I should've called her out on it, after it was obviously ruined, just so maybe she doesn't repeat this situation in the future. Part of me wishes I could text her and even in a polite non angry way tell her that moving forward she should be much more considerate with peoples time and to not make plans she can't keep. She'd probably just think im even more psycho which I actually don't care about as long as it actually helps her stop doing it. It probably wouldn't though.

And girls speak in hints and subtleties and we often don't pick up on them. They often want us to just know what to do... how to lead them... where to take them... what is going on with them. And the better we can get at picking up on what they need in order to be led forward, the better they feel around us and the easier it is to lead to the bedroom, ime.
Good point, yeah she definitely didn't wanna do the hot tub. She said it was cuz it was too cold but now that you say that it makes me think that wasn't even the real reason. Which would make sense I mean it was fucking 62° lol. I waited for a 70° night but it wasn't even the temperature at all lol

She might have wanted to see you but she didn't want to go hot tubbing and then just bang and feel like you were using her for sex (I'm not saying that's what's going on or that women don't like sex but if you're not actively setting any frames, that's likely the frame that you're in since it's a societal frame).
I wasn't actively setting any frames. Yeah interesting.

Yeah, she almost certainly doesn't and won't ever realize how annoying she was... just like you don't know how uncomfortable you made her or whatever her emotions were around the interaction.
So true haha

Well, most of us do that. You're over here talking about how fucked up she is, rationalizing your behavior because you've decided she's this, that, and whatever else.

She's almost certainly doing the same thing to you, missing the big picture, missing the compassion and how you feel.

The key is to learn from all of this the best we can so that we can do better, as you know.


Well, it's possible that it could have been salvaged. It's hard to know and we probably won't know, based on what did end up happening.



Yeah, it's rude behavior. It's fucked... women flaking is totally ass faced rude behavior. I don't see it getting better anytime soon... the more people let women get away with it, the more it's going to happen.
Yeah im kinda thinking that if a girl flakes once that Im just gonna be done with them. I don't even care if it's still possible to bang, they really shouldnt deserve my time. Unless they're apologetic and suggest a different day. So yeah maybe ill call them out over text, they'll probably just think im a psycho but maybe it'll help.

And you know what? Men are doing it worse now than ever before too.

I actually teach in the women's dating side and I constantly get complaints from women about guys flaking on dates.
People just suck. Guy friends flake on me sometimes.

I'm guessing women flake way more than men. The women's dating side isn't nearly as scientific as the men's side is but flaking is a huge part of our culture now... and I've done it as well!

Honestly, I only mildly feel bad about it... but that's probably why it's perpetuating and getting worse... someone does it to us, we do it to them, none of us feel bad because we're all doing it back and forth with no real consequences outside of macro level, everyone is getting worse with it slowly but surely...
I will never flake lol maybe I'll just have zero friends because of it lmao

It's one way of doing things... if you want a girl to think that you like her for reasons more than just wanting to bang her... as in, you think she's a cool person for legitimate reasons... which can often help with flaking, making women feel like they can trust you, and feeling like they aren't being used or just a slut.

If you're going to see a girl more than once, it's a good habit to get into.
Dang that is a good habit. I forget about this but then sometimes i remember to do it. And it's fun to make a girl feel special, or to let them know why they're cool. I genuinely like most people. I like people. Unless they flake lmao but yeah I told this girl multiple times that she's hilarious, cuz I was laughing so hard, she was so blunt and honest and talked a lot of shit it was funny. Idk if that counts as qualifying though. She once told me she went through a slut faze before her recent relationship, I told her it was cool she's honest about it, and that it's rare for girls to be honest about it cuz they get shamed for it when guys get congratulated. Maybe thats me qualifying her as well? Lol idk

Also, another thing that I've found that helps with pulling is setting up a future date or get together with her. I've noticed that dramatically reduces a girl's defenses around that. It just makes her feel like you want to see her again and this isn't a one time thing.
Woah, so even if its the first date and you are trying to bang that night, it's good to talk about doing future things together? I thought that could almost seem creepy, like they'll think the guy is too invested too fast haha

With this girl though I did tell her I'm nerdy about skyscrapers. Cuz its true. Then told her I'm actually nerdy about a lot of things, but that she'll get to know those things later haha maybe that sort of counts?

I'd also recommend studying up on sexual framing, if you want to add some direction to your game. It sounds like you're naturally doing some things very well, which is cool.
Yeah probably a good idea thanks

Just don't let the "I'm just being myself" mean that you're not going to improve, learn how to better connect with women, and learn from your mistakes...

Men and women use that phrase to push off any criticism and divert blame for their behavior onto "it just wasn't meant to be" and I don't think that's useful for anyone.
Dang thats a real good point thanks, I was super into self development in 2013/2014 and improved so much to the point I kinda went back to being myself haha

No... I don't know what Chase has on the site about qualification. But basically you want to ask her and make her qualify herself on why she's a cool person and someone you would want to be with.

It builds compliance, makes her chase, and it allows you to figure out how much she likes you based on her answers... then you can actually tell her that you like her for her personality and she can "win you over" with how cool she is.
I'll have to read more info on this for sure

Some women are going to flake no matter what... at this point, there's no way to know with this one.

Chalk it up to a learning experience.
True and good point I will.

You're welcome.

This helps me a lot too, btw. Thanks for being open and sharing your experience for us all to pick apart and criticize you for, lol.
Haha glad this is a win win. And yeah some dudes were hella harsh on me here, you weren't as harsh lol thanks
 
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