The biggest epiphany I've had about women, game and life to date. (Long Post)

[Teevster]

Ok so you’re a night game club/bar kind of dude that goes for the same night lay instead of dates n shit. Gotcha.

To clarify, I am not claiming going on day2's is necessarily bad or "less worthy" than ONS. I just happen to find it more convenient and more exciting (and less time consuming). Honestly, I think one should master BOTH. Just saying this in case my message is being misunderstood.

So is there a certain amount of days you recommend to go out a week? At what point do you think we can get consistent results of getting a girl each outing? And How long would it normally take to get to 100 lays from that?

This will depend on how busy you are, but 2 times a week is what I opt for. I may do 3 if I have more days off (Holidays etc) and sometimes i may only do 1 in period where i simply cannot go out. In average you should go out twice a week - whether it is daygame or nightgame. You may mix both up - that's your call.

If you do more, you will naturally do better - although in most cities the nightlife sucks in the week days, so it is diminishing returns to go out at night in the week days (ok, in big cities, you may have good Thursdays!).

Getting one lay a week (in average) is doable, but it is not as easy as one may think! to me it took many years. I can't give you an exact number because it is individual, but for me it took a good 5-7 years of hard practice. My amounts of lay per year is not really going up after you manage to get laid consistently, but the quality of the women do.

I think this will probably help me because I haven't tried pulling a lot of girls home from clubs. Clubs do get expensive though, but I want to go out a lot more.

Huum, yes it is hard to dodge the cover charge at some places if you do not know anyone. But some clubs do have free entrance, or reduced rates before a certain hour - so do some research.

I used to go to a bigger venue with cover charge on one of the days, and a smaller free entrance venue the other

You do not need to consume a lot. If you don't it ain't that expensive. My outings usually costs max 30 usd. I have gone out and spent 10 USD.

Best,

 

[Skills]

I am impartial (i am not one to take sides, i think tva started, but allmyfriends are dead can be out there with the looks stuff and sometimes the vague stuff, but i can attest that teevester advise has gotten a lot of people lay (including myself) the "hypnosis"/ "nlp" is not really what he is famous for but things he is playing with lately, his main trade is sex talk, indirectly/teaching/curiosity imagination/frames around it.... so the hypnosis/nlp, is a bit of a strawman, at the same time the texting though no cold approach is very easy to mess up, and i do think you can get away with texting the reasoning is that women start projecting stuff on to you (though this could backfire as well), due to my accent i relied a lot in the past on texting and i can also confirm it works, but a lot of people do not have written charisma and are better off in person..... A good illustration are a bunch of guys in jail getting women through letters and their strong projection...



75 lays divided by 52 weeks in a year is 1.44 so lets say 4 lays every 3 weeks... With tinder premium 6 years ago, when it was way easier and he was 32 maybe possible... he is white and 6 feet.

there was that other dude that reminds me of him in sedfast that rack up a lot of lays from online jack giant... (same bit of bragadocious same problem with sometimes empty advise)...

Anyways, now a days tinder can be huge waste of time if you are not paying and i do agree it can be extremely boring....

it is a bit easier in usa to rack up huge numbers from online, but the quality will not be the same in most cases as clubs (some exceptions)

i personally love night game (i think i am addicted to it lol, is just so much fun, so many unexpected adventures, i am the only dude my age in the clubs every weekend lol)...

 

[naturalmikey]

anyone curious about me, feel free to request my snapchat

I am impartial (i am not one to take sides, i think tva started, but allmyfriends are dead can be out there with the looks stuff and sometimes the vague stuff, but i can attest that teevester advise has gotten a lot of people lay (including myself) the "hypnosis"/ "nlp" is not really what he is famous for but things he is playing with lately, his main trade is sex talk, indirectly/teaching/curiosity imagination/frames around it.... so the hypnosis/nlp, is a bit of a strawman, at the same time the texting though no cold approach is very easy to mess up, and i do think you can get away with texting the reasoning is that women start projecting stuff on to you (though this could backfire as well), due to my accent i relied a lot in the past on texting and i can also confirm it works, but a lot of people do not have written charisma and are better off in person..... A good illustration are a bunch of guys in jail getting women through letters and their strong projection...



75 lays divided by 52 weeks in a year is 1.44 so lets say 4 lays every 3 weeks... With tinder premium 6 years ago, when it was way easier and he was 32 maybe possible... he is white and 6 feet.

there was that other dude that reminds me of him in sedfast that rack up a lot of lays from online jack giant... (same bit of bragadocious same problem with sometimes empty advise)...

Anyways, now a days tinder can be huge waste of time if you are not paying and i do agree it can be extremely boring....

it is a bit easier in usa to rack up huge numbers from online, but the quality will not be the same in most cases as clubs (some exceptions)

i personally love night game (i think i am addicted to it lol, is just so much fun, so many unexpected adventures, i am the only dude my age in the clubs every weekend lol)...

jack gignac or something right? i thought he was full of shit at first. we started messaging. he is considerably better looking than me. he does really well. tinder was much easier for him. he was getting girls to come over to fuck him and his friends. he's like male model good looking. he definitely was legit getting results though. we shared pics of ourselves with girls and we were both doing quite well. he came across as a douche but actually seemed pretty cool one on one. but i don't personally know him other than from nextasf.

it was like three and a half years ago for tinder. i was 34. i didn't even lie about my age back then. the girls weren't as hot as what i get now. my standards were pretty low. i was just happy to be getting laid all the time. it was so new and exciting.

i've befriended this chick from tinder recently and she's been messaging me what guys send and it's remarkable how little game the average good looking guy has. i wish i could post some of the convos she's sent me. but these guys are good looking and have no game.

i definitely prefer night game though. it's so much more satisfying pulling a hot girl out of a night club. i'll admit i'm not the best in the world. unlike tinder, where i actually believe i am one of the best in the world. anyway i agree that frames are the foundation of game. without setting sexual frames the chick is going to have to be very free or very into you based on looks (or something else) to justify "being a slut." makes much more sense to nudge her in the direction of being able to justify it. that was one of my big problems with rsd. they basically said to ignore social conditioning like it's some imaginary thing. much better to work within the realm of her socially conditioned mind. i never said that technical game is stupid. it's necessary the vast majority of the time. i just don't think that stacking patterns is that beneficial. even if it is, it seems a little contrived and wouldn't be congruent for me. i do use lines, which are also contrived, but they amuse me. if it works for you, great keep doing it. theres more than one way to skin a cat. you can get tremendous results from rsd content only. i did.

 

[Skills]

i never got laid from anything rsd ever said.... i did like the content as reference and entertainment... i did get laid from teevester...

"best in the world" nah!

 

[naturalmikey]

i never got laid from anything rsd ever said.... i did like the content as reference and entertainment... i did get laid from teevester...

"best in the world" nah!

a lot of people have helped a lot of guys get laid. i'll guarantee rsd julien has gotten a lot of guys laid. zyzz is probably up there with him. how many people do you think hopped on steroids because of zyzz's videos and got laid like a rock star? i've helped people get laid. you've helped people get laid. just because teevster helped you get laid and julien didn't, you're a very small sample size lol. i don't really see what that has to do with anything.

 

[Sub-Zero]

anyone curious about me, feel free to request my snapchat


jack gignac or something right? i thought he was full of shit at first. we started messaging. he is considerably better looking than me. he does really well. tinder was much easier for him. he was getting girls to come over to fuck him and his friends. he's like male model good looking. he definitely was legit getting results though. we shared pics of ourselves with girls and we were both doing quite well. he came across as a douche but actually seemed pretty cool one on one. but i don't personally know him other than from nextasf.

it was like three and a half years ago for tinder. i was 34. i didn't even lie about my age back then. the girls weren't as hot as what i get now. my standards were pretty low. i was just happy to be getting laid all the time. it was so new and exciting.

i've befriended this chick from tinder recently and she's been messaging me what guys send and it's remarkable how little game the average good looking guy has. i wish i could post some of the convos she's sent me. but these guys are good looking and have no game.

i definitely prefer night game though. it's so much more satisfying pulling a hot girl out of a night club. i'll admit i'm not the best in the world. unlike tinder, where i actually believe i am one of the best in the world. anyway i agree that frames are the foundation of game. without setting sexual frames the chick is going to have to be very free or very into you based on looks (or something else) to justify "being a slut." makes much more sense to nudge her in the direction of being able to justify it. that was one of my big problems with rsd. they basically said to ignore social conditioning like it's some imaginary thing. much better to work within the realm of her socially conditioned mind. i never said that technical game is stupid. it's necessary the vast majority of the time. i just don't think that stacking patterns is that beneficial. even if it is, it seems a little contrived and wouldn't be congruent for me. i do use lines, which are also contrived, but they amuse me. if it works for you, great keep doing it. theres more than one way to skin a cat. you can get tremendous results from rsd content only. i did.

You can just type what these guys say to these chicks, I’m curious on what they say.

 

[Grand Pooba]

I've found that day game definitely has the highest potential to close on the hottest girls, followed by night game if you're really good. It's never the case that way with online, where those girls simply don't hang out and look - but for volume, it's maybe doable with a good profile.

 

[Mr.Rob]

I dont doubt @naturalmikey and his lay count claims. I think he just has a super baller online dating profile and a good date process and probably a bit of natural game (30 lays in college w/no pickup study).

But to @Teevster 's point I agree that Natural Mikey doesnt have an overly advanced grasp on tech and perhaps doesnt know how to convey all the unconcious aspects of his game that give him results. Just like naturals just say "get ripped and go talk to girls" when really they have a bunch of nuanced advanced tech they do but they dont know what/how it works. They just "talk to em and be alpha".

You see this a lot with RSD guys that get good actually, IME. RSD teaches mostly overarching big principles of game but never detailed advanced tech and convo tactics.

Most guys who go fully RSD never really reach that advanced level of nuance game that a lot of GirlsChase guys get. But the successful RSD guys are happy getting good results and are fine to stay on that level and play the numbers game.

I dont think there's any need for a Tinder or snapchat contest.

I agree with Teevster post some LR's if you need some proof of purchase. If one member doesnt believe you who cares. Just post your success via LR and let your contributions speak for yourself.

If you really want to prove you get consistent results then post consistent LR's for a stretch of time.

In defense of @Teevster he doesnt teach hypnosis lol. He teaches some NLP and very nuanced verbal game/sex talk (thats how I see it at least, maybe I dont describe it right). I dont worhip him but its clear to see when you read his LR's that he has a very high level understanding of influencing girls emotions at a very impactful level through his words. IMO that is the pinnacle of seduction and how you turn "yellow's" into "greens" (if were going to use that terminology) in the most effective way possible.

He gives extremely detailed breakdowns of it all and a lot of guys resonate with the material and get a lot of results from it.

So I dont doubt your results but I think getting tons of lays from Online is much different than cold approach which requires much more skill start to finish.

 

[Grand Pooba]

So I dont doubt your results but I think getting tons of lays from Online is much different than cold approach which requires much more skill start to finish.

Huge distinction here - tinder guys completely miss out on the approach/attraction side especially creating it from scratch; however they usually blow the cold approach guys out of the water on texting/messaging skills.

Overall cold approach is much more difficult and requires way more skill than tinder - it's no wonder a lot of men abandon themselves to swiping only.

 

[naturalmikey]

I dont doubt @naturalmikey and his lay count claims. I think he just has a super baller online dating profile and a good date process and probably a bit of natural game (30 lays in college w/no pickup study).

But to @Teevster 's point I agree that Natural Mikey doesnt have an overly advanced grasp on tech and perhaps doesnt know how to convey all the unconcious aspects of his game that give him results. Just like naturals just say "get ripped and go talk to girls" when really they have a bunch of nuanced advanced tech they do but they dont know what/how it works. They just "talk to em and be alpha".

You see this a lot with RSD guys that get good actually, IME. RSD teaches mostly overarching big principles of game but never detailed advanced tech and convo tactics.

Most guys who go fully RSD never really reach that advanced level of nuance game that a lot of GirlsChase guys get. But the successful RSD guys are happy getting good results and are fine to stay on that level and play the numbers game.

I dont think there's any need for a Tinder or snapchat contest.

I agree with Teevster post some LR's if you need some proof of purchase. If one member doesnt believe you who cares. Just post your success via LR and let your contributions speak for yourself.

If you really want to prove you get consistent results then post consistent LR's for a stretch of time.

In defense of @Teevster he doesnt teach hypnosis lol. He teaches some NLP and very nuanced verbal game/sex talk (thats how I see it at least, maybe I dont describe it right). I dont worhip him but its clear to see when you read his LR's that he has a very high level understanding of influencing girls emotions at a very impactful level through his words. IMO that is the pinnacle of seduction and how you turn "yellow's" into "greens" (if were going to use that terminology) in the most effective way possible.

He gives extremely detailed breakdowns of it all and a lot of guys resonate with the material and get a lot of results from it.

So I dont doubt your results but I think getting tons of lays from Online is much different than cold approach which requires much more skill start to finish.

i think what you’re missing is that i do use a lot of technical game. my style is very similar to say gunwitch smma. i got started with rsd. i also got heavily into swinggcat. i find a more balanced approach works best. my game definitely has structure and is not purely about a numbers game. the thing i see as completely unnecessary and also antiquated is stacking routines. that’s the only point of contention. i’m not some guy who gets all his results on tinder. it started that way. but i now easily can get laid once a week when going out consistently. not only that but with girls who would ostensibly be out of my league.

 

[DarkKnight]

Lol this topic derailed hard from Oh Pry's epiphanies

 

[Velasco]

the thing i see as completely unnecessary and also antiquated is stacking routines

Do you know why guys have routines (or at least why I do)? Because it is through these routines, that they allows us to easily set the FRAMES we want into our interactions. That we know from experience, will progress the interaction forward to getting what we want. Can you set frames without routines? Sure. But then you're relying on pure improvisation to come up with something completely new in the moment. Why not, have routines, so that when you hear a girl talk (or mention a word) about something semi-related to one of your routines you like to use (or when you hear her expresses a concern/limiting belief around sex that is not conductive to getting a SNL, you have something, that you've told girls a million times before with that same exact concern/limiting belief, that takes care of it via frame control) so that you can remain completely relaxed, because you are well prepared for it? Rather than scrambling around trying to think of something ("well you know...umm") (or even trying to keep the conversation alive when you've run out of things to say)?

Examples of routines to set frames by modern day PUAs:

6:30 (beginning of a routine he's told a million times that sets a spontaneous frame)

11:39 (beginning of a routine he's told a million times that sets a nonjudgemental frame)

19:48 (beginning of a routine he's told a million times that sexualizes the conversation and sets a sexual prizing frame)

Yes at the end of the day, girls like to fuck. But not all girls are going to be immediately down to fuck anybody that push/pulls/disqualifies them (especially not the 8+ sober chicks). For that we set frames. and one really super easy way of doing that is through routines.

 

[Mr.Rob]

i think what you’re missing is that i do use a lot of technical game. my style is very similar to say gunwitch smma. i got started with rsd. i also got heavily into swinggcat. i find a more balanced approach works best. my game definitely has structure and is not purely about a numbers game. the thing i see as completely unnecessary and also antiquated is stacking routines. that’s the only point of contention. i’m not some guy who gets all his results on tinder. it started that way. but i now easily can get laid once a week when going out consistently. not only that but with girls who would ostensibly be out of my league.

Right I believe you. My point is that you are using tech etc. but to you its just "talking to girls", hence the initial backlash you got from Teevster to begin with. You might very well be deep diving, chase framing, or using nuanced sex talk or whatever else are the thousand pieces of advanced tech out there but you just chalk your results up to "Im ripped and confident in talking to girls".

I mean I havent read all your posts so Im not super up to date with NaturalMikey's method but just going off of what some other commenters are pointing out and what I have seen from you advice wise I think if your getting advanced results (200-300 total lays) and its because your ripped and confident then there is probably a lot of other stuff your unconcious about that is actually leading to those results.

Again I haven't read or followed all your posts that just my guess based on this thread, other commenters remarks, and what I have seen from you.

Teevster cosigns:

My take:
- Naturalmikey is bullshitting or exagerating
- Naturalmikey is talking the truth, but is very good looking or a natural - but is unable to really discern what he is doing.
[/QUOTE]

 

[naturalmikey]

Right I believe you. My point is that you are using tech etc. but to you its just "talking to girls", hence the initial backlash you got from Teevster to begin with. You might very well be deep diving, chase framing, or using nuanced sex talk or whatever else are the thousand pieces of advanced tech out there but you just chalk your results up to "Im ripped and confident in talking to girls".

I mean I havent read all your posts so Im not super up to date with NaturalMikey's method but just going off of what some other commenters are pointing out and what I have seen from you advice wise I think if your getting advanced results (200-300 total lays) and its because your ripped and confident then there is probably a lot of other stuff your unconcious about that is actually leading to those results.

Again I haven't read or followed all your posts that just my guess based on this thread, other commenters remarks, and what I have seen from you.

Teevster cosigns:

obviously twleevster co-signs. the personal attacks were initiated by him. this is all him. he got triggered by something i said and reports me to the higher ups every time i post something he doesn’t like. he’s the forum equivalent of a twelve year old girl.

 

[naturalmikey]

Do you know why guys have routines (or at least why I do)? Because it is through these routines, that they allows us to easily set the FRAMES we want into our interactions. That we know from experience, will progress the interaction forward to getting what we want. Can you set frames without routines? Sure. But then you're relying on pure improvisation to come up with something completely new in the moment. Why not, have routines, so that when you hear a girl talk (or mention a word) about something semi-related to one of your routines you like to use (or when you hear her expresses a concern/limiting belief around sex that is not conductive to getting a SNL, you have something, that you've told girls a million times before with that same exact concern/limiting belief, that takes care of it via frame control) so that you can remain completely relaxed, because you are well prepared for it? Rather than scrambling around trying to think of something ("well you know...umm") (or even trying to keep the conversation alive when you've run out of things to say)?

Examples of routines to set frames by modern day PUAs:

6:30 (beginning of a routine he's told a million times that sets a spontaneous frame)

11:39 (beginning of a routine he's told a million times that sets a nonjudgemental frame)

19:48 (beginning of a routine he's told a million times that sexualizes the conversation and sets a sexual prizing frame)

Yes at the end of the day, girls like to fuck. But not all girls are going to be immediately down to fuck anybody that push/pulls/disqualifies them (especially not the 8+ sober chicks). For that we set frames. and one really super easy way of doing that is through routines.

i understand the use of routines. they’re basically training wheels for setting frames. i just try to make sure i set sexual frames and also social frames if necessary. i say if necessary because i am already socially what many women consider their type. i’m tallish olive skin blue eyes white. too much social framework can come off as try hard. i also emotionally stimulate. i actually use heavy emotional stimulation. a lot of spikes. i’ve toned that down in the past year because women are far more sensitive than even just two years ago. gunwitch smma really opened me up to these being the three necessary components of any lay. all three can be full filled just by her thinking your hot in some cases. but normally frames must be set. looking back i realized all my lats fulfilled all three keys. i’m a big believer in frames. i just don’t see why you need material to set them. specifically long rehearsed stories.

i use lines and short stuff. one example would be like “that guy over there likes you.” look her up and down “oh my god you wanna fuck him, you’re bad” and the push her shoulder away. i do that one pretty regularly. but i never spout off some nlp pattern. if it’s the easy way i don’t see what makes that advanced. and i stand by it being unnecessary. not that it doesn’t work. just that it is unnecessary.

i know you had a bad experience with rsd. but one of juliens is “what would you do if” you can use this to set up all sorts of sexual topics in a nonjudgmental way “what would you do if you met a guy and really liked him so you went home with him. but when you got there he had a micro penis. would you still duck him ?”

 

[Velasco]

i just try to make sure i set sexual frames and also social frames if necessary. i say if necessary because i am already socially what many women consider their type. i’m tallish olive skin blue eyes white. too much social framework can come off as try hard

yeah agree. but I don't know what you mean by too much social framework? You set a social frame by vibing with her and her friends basically. Vibing includes talking about what you guys have in common, and getting her to invest in the conversation by sharing a couple stories about herself, making her laugh by teasing her here or there. This of course assumes you've (not literally you) fully maxed out your fundamentals.

i also emotionally stimulate. i actually use heavy emotional stimulation. a lot of spikes. i’ve toned that down in the past year because women are far more sensitive than even just two years ago.

I, as well as others who've got Gun's SMMA, just combine the emotional stimulation key with the social frame key, and with the sexual arousal key. It's not JUST making her laugh till she pees herself or pissing her off with negative spikes like RSD does. It's making her feel a whole range of emotions. Sharing a sad story about your upbringing or a recent breakup to relate with her would be Social+Emotional. Sharing a thrilling sex story about that time you had a threesome in Vegas would be Sexual+Emotional.

i just don’t see why you need material to set them. specifically long rehearsed stories.

It's really a 1-2 minute story bro lol.

if it’s the easy way i don’t see what makes that advanced.

Sharing routines is an easy way to set frames. Not the easiest way to get laid.

 

[naturalmikey]

@Velasco i am referring to setting a social frame. if you are not her typical type it is important to set frames that you are someone acceptible to sleep with. this could be done through dhv story telling or even the way you dress. if i try to impress in the slightest i almost always lose sets. i agree connecting on an emltional level works really well. my game was missing this for some time. i was all spiking and not enough connecting. it worked a lot. but sometimes i came across as unrelatable.

if you like stacking routines i see no problem with it. i just see it as being unnecessary. that’s all. maybe it helps some people. if it helps you i recommend you keep doing it.